Nah, a game can be complicated *and* accessible if designed that way from the beginning. As it happens, when the executives called for more subs it was already too late to do anything about it and the only option was *chop* *chop* *chop*. I genuinely do fear the upcoming Trader revamp, I have a feeling it'll be the last straw for those of us who wish to play an intelligent game. I for one do not want to end up dragging lego bricks and single-stat resources into some tool and being called a "crafter".
JFreeman wrote: I don't speak about SWG on my blog. I may speak about game design in general, or high level design concept sorts of things that aren't appropriate for discussion here. But to speak about SWG specifically: well I'd do that on these forums.
Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
Now don't you think a nice noob tutorial, kind of like the one you made for the NGE, would have been a good way to get people entrenched in the complex game that we had, the game that so many of us enjoyed?
People aren't dumb. The game didn't have to be made so simple as this. People are impatient when it comes to something that has to be learned sometimes, but they can be taught.
It makes me sad that one of our Devs knows the value of a deep and complex system, and yet still we are left with this. It has to make you sad too, were you able to be honest about it.
SOE Company Slogan: "If it's broke, don't fix it. If it ain't broke, break it."
JFreeman wrote: I don't speak about SWG on my blog. I may speak about game design in general, or high level design concept sorts of things that aren't appropriate for discussion here. But to speak about SWG specifically: well I'd do that on these forums.
Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
I call BS to your implication that older people will not be willing to learn complex sets of rules to enjoy play.
I think the implication was more that younger people have more free time. True enough.
______________________________________
I support turning on maintenance and letting condition zero houses be packed up or destroyed. __________
JFreeman wrote: I don't speak about SWG on my blog. I may speak about game design in general, or high level design concept sorts of things that aren't appropriate for discussion here. But to speak about SWG specifically: well I'd do that on these forums.
Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
As a 45 year old man with an undergraduate degree, a job in engineering, and a member of professional societies that demand continuing education in highly complex technologies, I call BS to your implication that older people will not be willing to learn complex sets of rules to enjoy play. The people I spent most of my time with in SWG early on were stock brokers, engineers, mathematicians, networking technologists, accountants, lawyers and law students, and programmers.
Your so-called complex rules where stymying only the attention-deficit, memory deficient, and under educated. All the players I knew wanted complexity.
You should have done a better job of hand-holding for the new players that wanted it. Better tutorials and quests that showed the new player the ins and outs would have better served to enable better gameplay.
All you did was replace the numbers on the cash register with pictures of hamburgers and fries so that the cashier could finish a transaction without knowing anything about addition or subtraction.
Message Edited by majorslappy on 02-09-200602:21 PM
Message Edited by majorslappy on 02-09-200602:24 PM
Else-Whira wrote: I hope you read this line Mr. Freeman tht posted in response to your blog;
Ole Bald Angus the Monk wrote:
I mean, if its too simple, then you can just play without ever talking to each other, and that's kinda sucky.
That is exactly what has happened to SWG with the changes you force fed on the community and it is killing the future of this game. Look at the community forums here... Instead of people talking about how to play the game and where to find the coolest features, most of the chat is about where the game is headed and which OTHER games people's friends have moved over to. Instead of talking about how to play the game, people are talking about what they are going to do until their accounts expire.
The new players really aren't using the forums at all because the game is so easy, they don't have any need to be here. That is kiling any future community building.
These games (MMORPGS) need community, because there is no end.
yes, remember when there were threads explaining and argueing about how things actually worked? that built the community and the community sustained the game. why do you think so many people like myself continue on in the community and yet don't play the game?
JFreeman wrote: I don't speak about SWG on my blog. I may speak about game design in general, or high level design concept sorts of things that aren't appropriate for discussion here. But to speak about SWG specifically: well I'd do that on these forums.
Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
I call BS to your implication that older people will not be willing to learn complex sets of rules to enjoy play.
I think the implication was more that younger people have more free time. True enough.
LOL who said I needed a lot of time to learn the rules? In my professional life I have to absorb and memorize a large amount of information every day. These so-called complex rules took nearly no time to understand and use.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't like pointless grinds. Thank you for reintroducing decay!!! I like a complex, immersive world simulation, full of possibilities, challenges and roleplay. I want a player driven, crafting-based economy.
i think it hurt his feeling actually. He did not expect us to actually look for the lacking info off the official sites. Its not personal to him , at least from me, but you cant ignore the lack of comms here and think the problem will go away . eventually the pro nge guys WILL reach that magic point where waiting any longer is stupid , and slowly turn against SOE as well . This is the pattern - promise something - fail to deliver - promise again and this time really really mean it - fail to deliver- more carrot , less stick.
the cycle has to end somewhere either the management ends it by coming thru or the players end it by turning agsint the management. Which do you think has happened ?
--------- Im no Jedi, but ive got a lightsaber anyway--------- --------- --Omisi Rila-- --------- --------- --Diovaa-- --------- --------- Vendor Located at 540 -5875 Tat - Outside Mos Nihil ---------
Never Underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
i think it hurt his feeling actually. He did not expect us to actually look for the lacking info off the official sites. Its not personal to him , at least from me, but you cant ignore the lack of comms here and think the problem will go away . eventually the pro nge guys WILL reach that magic point where waiting any longer is stupid , and slowly turn against SOE as well . This is the pattern - promise something - fail to deliver - promise again and this time really really mean it - fail to deliver- more carrot , less stick.
the cycle has to end somewhere either the management ends it by coming thru or the players end it by turning agsint the management. Which do you think has happened ?
Well the problem here is that if you don't want anyone to read it or are going to be embarressed by what you wrote, the simple solution is not to write it in the first place. It shows that he has continually taken the time to post on his blog, almost daily, but yet in 3 years hasn't found the time to post more than 345 posts on these official boards. That's a bit out of whack I think.
"There is no emotion, there is peace; There is no ignorance, there is knowledge; There is no passion, there is serenity; there is no choas, there is order;There is no death, there is the Force" from the Jedi code.
This explains a lot of all this, actually - everything that hasn't happened since the game came out. Who knows how awesome this would be if these guys were still around.
There is only one boss. The customer. And he can fire everybody in the company from the chairman on down, simply by spending his money somewhere else. Sam Walton
i think it hurt his feeling actually. He did not expect us to actually look for the lacking info off the official sites. Its not personal to him , at least from me, but you cant ignore the lack of comms here and think the problem will go away . eventually the pro nge guys WILL reach that magic point where waiting any longer is stupid , and slowly turn against SOE as well . This is the pattern - promise something - fail to deliver - promise again and this time really really mean it - fail to deliver- more carrot , less stick.
the cycle has to end somewhere either the management ends it by coming thru or the players end it by turning agsint the management. Which do you think has happened ?
Well the problem here is that if you don't want anyone to read it or are going to be embarressed by what you wrote, the simple solution is not to write it in the first place. It shows that he has continually taken the time to post on his blog, almost daily, but yet in 3 years hasn't found the time to post more than 345 posts on these official boards. That's a bit out of whack I think.
I wouldn't post on here either if I was a DEV....it's a damned if you do damned if you don't situation.
