SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
What Mr. Freeman (Oh dear. I just had a sudden flash of Half-Life) has just said is that the NGE is providing a solid foundation for depth and complexity. What I'd like to read from this is that when the NGE is neatened up, more complex features can come back into play.
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I support turning on maintenance and letting condition zero houses be packed up or destroyed. __________
JFreeman wrote: I don't speak about SWG on my blog. I may speak about game design in general, or high level design concept sorts of things that aren't appropriate for discussion here. But to speak about SWG specifically: well I'd do that on these forums.
Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
Well, there it is again. While I can understand that line of reasoning from a commercial point of view, what you have done is taken away all complexity from everyone, also from those who have financed your game with their subscriptions for years.
Do tell me please (and this is a serious question, not a taunt): why, in your opinion, should established players wait around and keep paying subscription fees while they wait for you to re-build this game "on a solid foundation" (let's not get into that), maybe (given SOE's track record some doubts here are hopefully understandable) returning some complexity to this game at some point down the line?
______________________________________________________ The Ti'lya Brothers: Ailar (Entertainer/Chimaera, DG Trader/Bria), Klofi (Smuggler/Chimaera) -- Cancelled, "You have a right to be upset. Anyone who is attached to any profession that doesn't get a lot of new content has a right to be upset." -- HanseSOE ______________________________________________________ Raph Koster on: "SWG: What went wrong?"
JFreeman wrote: I don't speak about SWG on my blog. I may speak about game design in general, or high level design concept sorts of things that aren't appropriate for discussion here. But to speak about SWG specifically: well I'd do that on these forums.
Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
What areas in SWG would you think are good targets of added depth and complexity - hypothetically speaking (nothing you would be held to, just conjecture)?
I hope you read this line Mr. Freeman tht posted in response to your blog;
Ole Bald Angus the Monk wrote:
I mean, if its too simple, then you can just play without ever talking to each other, and that's kinda sucky.
That is exactly what has happened to SWG with the changes you force fed on the community and it is killing the future of this game. Look at the community forums here... Instead of people talking about how to play the game and where to find the coolest features, most of the chat is about where the game is headed and which OTHER games people's friends have moved over to. Instead of talking about how to play the game, people are talking about what they are going to do until their accounts expire.
The new players really aren't using the forums at all because the game is so easy, they don't have any need to be here. That is kiling any future community building.
These games (MMORPGS) need community, because there is no end.
JFreeman wrote: I don't speak about SWG on my blog. I may speak about game design in general, or high level design concept sorts of things that aren't appropriate for discussion here. But to speak about SWG specifically: well I'd do that on these forums.
Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
At the same time it can't be dumbed down to the point that it has no appeal to anyone, which is what we have right now.
Without depth and complexity there is nothing to keep people here. In 90 days you've lost half the subscribers. You know as well as most anyone else that there is not going to be a large influx of people buying this game. It has been out for 3 years. You failed to generate the new subscriptions at Christmas as you had envisioned.
Why did you fail, well for the same 3 reasons that all previous versions of the game have failed to meet the expectations of your managers.
1. The NGE was released incomplete. It is taking an inordinate amount of time to fix it despite claims that programming the NGE would enable you and your team to fix issues and add content more quickly.
2. The game still has a serious lack of content. Less content has been added to SWG since its inception than to any other MMO in history in the same time frame. Without content you will not be able to retain what you have, nor will you be able to attract new players. The loss of diversification has meant the loss of player made content as well, which for most of this games history helped disguise the fact that it had no content.
3. SOE and LucasArts have continually practiced Poor Customer Relations. Keeping your players in the dark and then rolling out unfinished and incomplete programming is not the way to make happy customers. Releasing updates and revamps that negate over 2 years of play by most of your player base also doesn't make happy customers. Unhappy customers take their argument to friends and family such that every unhappy customer costs you ten potential customers. It is always cheaper to retain the customers you have than to attract new customers.
JFreeman wrote: I don't speak about SWG on my blog. I may speak about game design in general, or high level design concept sorts of things that aren't appropriate for discussion here. But to speak about SWG specifically: well I'd do that on these forums.
Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
As a 45 year old man with an undergraduate degree, a job in engineering, and a member of professional societies that demand continuing education in highly complex technologies, I call BS to your implication that older people will not be willing to learn complex sets of rules to enjoy play. The people I spent most of my time with in SWG early on were stock brokers, engineers, mathematicians, networking technologists, accountants, lawyers and law students, and programmers.
Your so-called complex rules where stymying only the attention-deficit, memory deficient, and under educated. All the players I knew wanted complexity.
You should have done a better job of hand-holding for the new players that wanted it. Better tutorials and quests that showed the new player the ins and outs would have better served to enable better gameplay.
All you did was replace the numbers on the cash register with pictures of hamburgers and fries so that the cashier could finish a transaction without knowing anything about addition or subtraction.
Message Edited by majorslappy on 02-09-200602:21 PM
Message Edited by majorslappy on 02-09-200602:24 PM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't like pointless grinds. Thank you for reintroducing decay!!! I like a complex, immersive world simulation, full of possibilities, challenges and roleplay. I want a player driven, crafting-based economy.
JFreeman wrote: Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
Interesting. I find that I am just the opposite.
As I continue my journey through my 40's, I find that I am much more patient than I was at a younger age. Therefore I can handle learning curves without demanding they be leveled out so that I can reach the pinnacle faster. I also tend to have greater reasoning skills now than I did 20 years ago. This usually makes the learning process that much easier as well.
Give it a few more years, Jeff. I'm sure you'll find that "easy" gets much less interesting over time.
JFreeman wrote: I don't speak about SWG on my blog. I may speak about game design in general, or high level design concept sorts of things that aren't appropriate for discussion here. But to speak about SWG specifically: well I'd do that on these forums.
Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
I agree 100% with this! Keep up the good work!
JFreeman's alt. account LOL
Hardly. Just someone who can think ahead a few steps... and not someone who just likes to bash all the time.
Look up all my thread history and u will see that is not the case.
JFreeman wrote: I don't speak about SWG on my blog. I may speak about game design in general, or high level design concept sorts of things that aren't appropriate for discussion here. But to speak about SWG specifically: well I'd do that on these forums.
Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
It's the same principle. D&D's complexity made it what it is, and kept people playing it. SWG had it and it appealed to the vets with was great UNTIL the entire star wars universe changed with episode 1. It was made for a bigger audiance then the orginal, made for the kids of the kids that saw episode 4 in 1977. It was a business call to target that audiance, rather then the nitche it had.
People: the cancel button will set you free.......you just have to deside if it's time to move on.
10-16-2003 The day Holocrons entered the game and started the game's grind into the ground.
JFreeman wrote: I don't speak about SWG on my blog. I may speak about game design in general, or high level design concept sorts of things that aren't appropriate for discussion here. But to speak about SWG specifically: well I'd do that on these forums.
Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
Ok, understood. Can we address a couple of things here? First off, I appreciate the direction of the altered NGE. It plays well almost equalling the CU, whether many will admit it or not. Now that the course is set for the game and communications are open, when will a roadmap be available for future content? When I ask about content I am specifically addressing future quests. If you read the forums you will see specific content requested for quests/content:
1. The Galactic Civil War.
2. Criminal Factions i.e. Hutt and Smuggling, Black Suns.
3. Jedi/Dark Jedi/Sith related Quests.
4. Volunteer Player Bounties, you sign up and get hunted.
5. Trader/Entertainer Content, like quests and or abilities.
6. Players seem to want to see planets like Hoth, Coruscant and others.
7. Players want more space content like Capital ships and their related content.
Thanks
-Craile- Guild Leader LOD-
-Artanis- Mayor Republica Auralis, Talus-
-Anarin- Armorsmith, Antiques Dealer, shops located at 1662, 171, Republica Auralis, Talus-
Else-Whira wrote: I hope you read this line Mr. Freeman tht posted in response to your blog;
Ole Bald Angus the Monk wrote:
I mean, if its too simple, then you can just play without ever talking to each other, and that's kinda sucky.
That is exactly what has happened to SWG with the changes you force fed on the community and it is killing the future of this game. Look at the community forums here... Instead of people talking about how to play the game and where to find the coolest features, most of the chat is about where the game is headed and which OTHER games people's friends have moved over to. Instead of talking about how to play the game, people are talking about what they are going to do until their accounts expire.
The new players really aren't using the forums at all because the game is so easy, they don't have any need to be here. That is kiling any future community building.
These games (MMORPGS) need community, because there is no end.
Nonsense, I played the game since 23 days after launch without making a single post in the forums until this week. Why? Because I was playing the game. I was enthralled, addicted. Childlike wonder at the diversity of a world that I had wished existed for so long.
And I certainly don't play on my own. Most of the fun of the game is now and has always been the community.
______________________________________
I support turning on maintenance and letting condition zero houses be packed up or destroyed. __________
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
What Mr. Freeman (Oh dear. I just had a sudden flash of Half-Life) has just said is that the NGE is providing a solid foundation for depth and complexity. What I'd like to read from this is that when the NGE is neatened up, more complex features can come back into play.
Since they took it out in the first place......and watch, they will give it back to us and tell us it is content....lol
JFreeman wrote: I don't speak about SWG on my blog. I may speak about game design in general, or high level design concept sorts of things that aren't appropriate for discussion here. But to speak about SWG specifically: well I'd do that on these forums.
Certainly when I was a younger man, I was willing to devote a great deal of time to mastering arcane rules just to be able to play a game. But those days are long gone. SWG needed to be a lot more accessible. It also needed to be a lot more maintainable.
SWG needs depth and complexity too, but it can't be the thing that greets new players at the door. That complexity needs to be built on a solid foundation; and the game itself needed to be easier to get into and more directed.
sad but true. for examples, see janes sims. they dont exist anymore because there are too few of us insane ppl who will devote days just learning how to operate the aircraft before we ever actualy play the game. i loved jane's sims. all the buttons worked and they were hard as hell with an equally steep learning curve.
however, i doubt i have the energy to devote to anything like that anymore. sad but true
sure do miss those kinds of game though. gpl was like that too. the study sim class of games is dead i believe.
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