Satch_of_GL wrote: Wow, this is impressive. I have spent at least 16 million on parts and supplies from shipwrights and you want more? Isn't “incredibly wealthy” enough for you?
Is it your intention to sentance people who do not have millions to burn on your products to PVP/PVE mediocrity?
Right now, shipwrights can reverse engineer the loot drops people sell to you (going rate is about 1k per level) into other products you can sell for a profit and sometimes into SW only rewards like the Firespray (sells for about 8 million a copy on my server). On my server, any SW that simply keeps a full stock of missiles in any decent quantity or quality does extremely well.
As a casual player, I hate the weapon/armor improvement loot drops. I don't know armor or weapon smiths that I would trust enough to have specially commissioned weapons made and the rates smiths offer for raw materials is a joke. So, all those nice looted parts end up taking up space in my house. It’s not worth it to me to do anything hunt the stuff so that others can craft it into things I won’t be able to afford.
The loot drops have already been nerfed in quantity. Messing with the quality harms the majority of players while coddling an extremely wealthy minority.
This is a focus thread for Shipwrights to discuss our genuine crafting problems, please troll elsewhere
I am definatly with the loot drop enhancement idea, bring it into line with the ground game on that front. Not that I am saying make everything craftable better period, but the drop rates need to reflect the quality of the item. I am also still thinking that shipwright should have specializations which allow us to break what is quite a large crafting area into chunks...
Capacitors are still very broke, I just dont make them, even the loot system is broke on that front, level 2 then level 6 are the only ones worth having as far as i can tell.
Reactors are still dropping at insane gen rates with very low mass (by comparison), I know what the top bragged one is at the moment, and an average MkV hits about 50% of its rating for 100% more mass....
I am a Master Shipwright and a Master Pilot, and I have many acquiantances in both fields as well. I will not give you my opinion. I will simply give you the facts and let you decide for yourself whether or not this needs rectification:
All 6 of my vendors have had crafted and RE components on them simultaneously. I sell about 5-7 pieces of RE equipment per day. I have never sold a single crafted component on any of my vendors.
I have 4 ships and equipment to match each one down to the last 100 mass left on the ships. I only have one crafted item on one of my ships, which is a Mark IV Shield generator.
My repeat customers and my guildmates have always requested RE parts from me. Only one person ever requested crafted items (other than launchers, ammo, paint and repair kits) and that was because they wanted the roleplaying to be accurate and did not care about performance.
I almost sold a Mark V reactor once, but the person then found a looted reactor and cancelled the order.
I have not crafted a ship component in 7 days, and I just stopped reverse engineering loot so that I could respond to this post. Once I finish this post I will return to more REing.
Nokilo, Chilastra Server
P.S. - Since I am a pilot, it is fairly straightforward to presume that if you nerf REd components to match crafted components instead of raising crafted to the standards of common loot, you will make a lot of pilots angry, and you will also unbalance the game when you consider that there are many pilots out there like me who already have the best RE on their ships.
I've seen this a couple times in this thread -- which is cool, because I've thought of proposing it a few times, but now I'm sure I'm not just starting a pointless new thread!
I'd like to echo the idea that looted subcomponents from space would be a fun addition. Adding the equivalent of Krayt Tissues or Gorax Bone Shards could be a fun way to enhance the crafting process, while leaving pilots with loot to seek out. That is, assuming there aren't major spawn / KS issues -- but JtL seems to be better on that end than the ground game.
I would just like to make a small comment on this issue...
Loot being better than crafted Items, I can accept this to a degree...
Quite Frankly though, as a Master Pilot, I find that my ship, with the exception of my reactor, missile launcher (they dont drop as loot) and one gun, ALL of my ship components are reengineered loot.
Capacitor... I am not starting my rant here about that, but why is it that I cant craft with as low mass on anything by comparison of what I loot...
I have a level 8 Shield Gen
2555 Front and back with a 13.5 recharge
my level 7 that I took out for it, 10k Heavier
On a consistant basis I make my shipwright look like a chump, mainly because I am grinding for Firespray disks, and anything I seem to bring back, there is a little piece of gold in the part.
My engine is a level 6 that blows away anyones level 9
less than 10k Mass... 95.5 top speed, all above 65 YPR
I have come to grips with the fact that Shipwrights are apparently in SWG just for Reengineering and Chassis construction, the small matter of making launchers and packs aside, No need to state the obvious.
I found a friend who has a reactor, 35k Mass 25k Generation... NOT REENGINEERED YET!!!!
My shipwright has become a blueprint dealer, nothing more....
Pullin Stuff
Pirate King
On behalf of
Manowar Nosferatu
Slave to the Pirate King
ps. on these points
Wow, this is impressive. I have spent at least 16 million on parts and supplies from shipwrights and you want more? Isn't “incredibly wealthy” enough for you?
Is it your intention to sentance people who do not have millions to burn on your products to PVP/PVE mediocrity?
Right now, shipwrights can reverse engineer the loot drops people sell to you (going rate is about 1k per level) into other products you can sell for a profit and sometimes into SW only rewards like the Firespray (sells for about 8 million a copy on my server). On my server, any SW that simply keeps a full stock of missiles in any decent quantity or quality does extremely well.
--Excuse me Mr. I am a casual Player, when you are at the mercy of Resource sellers deciding since launch that grind quality Resources should be 10 CPU, then you have the right to complain about ship prices, especially when you are trying to grind Shipwright, My main spent EVERYDAY for about three weeks making money just to get master Shipwright, because the xp per resource used is a little more than off. I had the joy of spending 30 Mill on Material, to find out that reeng parts are better than what I can craft with some of the most sought after material to hit Naritus in the past YEAR...
sorry if that seemed bitter but as the Least Expensive Shipwright on Naritus, i think that all shipwrights needed to hear someone say it
Message Edited by OmarTsalamir on 02-04-200501:59 PM
Zigmund...I totally agree with you...all my crafted items are less then what is looted...as a result, I am not selling much of anything that is lootable...and to make it sound bad about me...I use a capaciter that was looted instead of what I can make, cause it is a heck of a lot better then what a shipwright can make
I feel that no one should be able to loot anything above lvl 3, and that is really better then what a mstr SW can make. My point is that no one can loot anything on the ground that out performs better then a mstr...for instance...can you take out an NPC commando in one of the outposts...and loot an awesome flamer, that out does anything a mstr ws can ever make? what about taking out a moister theif...can you loot a BER 20 harvestor? The answer is no, you cannot loot anything that is better then what a mstr can ever make...as you all know...99.99999999999999% of the time, you loot crap, and you end up deleting it cause it just takes up space in your inventory.
Honestly, I think with testing all Crafted parts, there is only one solution that will keep people in space, Upgrade the crafted parts to make the loot not so special, except of course in rare cases... I mean quite frankly if I could not get a Cap like I have in my ship, if i had to deal with a crafted one, I would quit pilot. The Fact that My Master Shipwright Reenges better level 2 and 4 capacitors than the level 9 ones he crafts.. (LVL II Cap 40.2 recharge 1002 Cap Energy) doesnt that say something to everyone. If the game cuts loot drops down, then it takes a Firespray, which I credit value to my Customers at 5mill, not 9 mill like i see others selling them at, and makes it that much more expensive. And toning the loot down at this point would cause a riot on SOE, as new players will never be in a competing position with veteran players. The proposition to Equate Shipwrights with the majority of Loot drops seems like the most agreeable...
I would like to make a level 7 - 9 capacitor with a 40 recharge and 1002 Cap Energy
Sorry for this not being Short and Interesting as it was long and boring....
Message Edited by OmarTsalamir on 02-04-200502:10 PM
you nerf herders and the dead horse you love to "heat up" will only raise the value of my RE collection when the devs finally cave in to your demands.. kinda like how when you got the 92 engine reward nerfed, they didnt nerf the ones already in existance, theyre not going to nerf the space loot many of us have been religioulsy stockpiling.
so bring on the nerf I say, you'll just be making a bunch of RE horders very rich and happy. Think about it. theres hordes and hordes of loot out there just waiting for nerf day.. You think ppl are going to travel 2000m to your shop on that day just to buy your 'equalized" crafted loot? No, not when theres stockpiles and 'piles of prenerf REd loot that will start circulating real quick at way inflated prices.., you think your economies depressed now, bring on the nerf and lets really see what messed up economy means. The only ones who will prosper are the RE horders, and you'll all be back here focusing more quick "solutions".
so bring on the nerf I say, you'll just be making a bunch of RE horders very rich and happy. Think about it. theres hordes and hordes of loot out there just waiting for nerf day.. You think ppl are going to travel 2000m to your shop on that day just to buy your 'equalized" crafted loot? No, not when theres stockpiles and 'piles of prenerf REd loot that will start circulating real quick at way inflated prices.., you think your economies depressed now, bring on the nerf and lets really see what messed up economy means. The only ones who will prosper are the RE horders, and you'll all be back here focusing more quick "solutions".
I am not in favor of nerfing the loot, do not get me wrong specifically because I do not want the economy on Naritus to get any worse, not for nothing but I can go on for hours about how bad it is here. I believe that Shipwrights should be able to craft things closer to what is given out as loot. I am not claiming that I ahould be able to assemble a Cap that is 1500 Energy and 50+ Recharge, I just think that being abole to make something remotely close would be nice, oh I dont know a level 9 that can come close to my level 6 reeng one would be sweet... but as I loot more and more, I may downgrade to a level 4, 5 points less recharge and 400 more energy than the level 6 i have. Are we seeing how rediculous that is, or is it just me...
A lot of the replies to this thread appear to be just comparisons between looted and crafted items and moaning about the situation. I haven't seen many that are actually offering a SOLUTION to the problem, so here's my suggestions for what they're worth...
1) Make more loot items Enhancers instead of specific items - the players can then trade these with the shipwrights to create enhanced items. ie a pilot would loot a Max Damage weapon enhancer instead of an uber big weapon, take it to the shipwright and ask him/her to stick it in a new weapon.
2) Put in SW clothing attachements.
3) Allow limited use schematics to be created from RE'ing items, not just the Firespray.
4) Create a seperate skill tree for each type of component an SW can craft which will come from the SW box. You would not need SP for these trees. For this to be effective you would need RE experience to be added. Each SW can only specialise in one or twospecific components, to gain these skills you would need RE and SW Crafting XP (lots of). This will create your "uber" Weapon crafter, Chassis crafter etc and encourage crafters to WORK TOGETHER. Crafters would become known for their speciality, 5 out of 10 players would still buy the rest of the components from them because they couldn't be bothered to travel around to find the best stuff. The other 5 would hunt until they had a list of shops selling specific uber items.
Well, thats my thoughts for the day.
Praise or flame away!
EPIVI
Hey guys, I wanted to expand on some of these ideas here. The way I see it, whether or not you agree that there is a problem with looted vs. crafted items, the game could always use improvements. Here's the begining of an idea I was brainstorming last night, feel free to add to it.
Along the lines of Cnagea's idea of looting enhancements, most of the looted items could be broken ship components, totally unusable to anyone but a shipwright. I'm not saying ALL of the loot should be this space junk, more like a 80% junk to 20% workable loot ratio. The pilot who looted said junk would still be able to sell it to the chassis broker for the current rate so's not to nerf anyone's income. So what would this junk be used for, you ask? Building other ship components.
The process, as I envision it, goes something like this: 1) pilot loots junk 2) pilot lands and whatever junk isn't immediatly sold to chassis broker somehow gets to a SW (junk vendors?) 3) the shipwright, instead of needing so many of the exact same component to RE the piece, opens up the component and chooses ONE attribute from the junk. This attribute is treated as a subcomponent (just as a barrel is to a blaster) and added to an item the SW is crafting. Think Parasite Eve, if that means anything to you. This could be done as many times as you have peices of specific space junk, though each new subcomponent increases the chance of critical failure, both in the construction of the item and experimentation.
So, for instance, I loot a broken level 5 shield. For the most part, it's nothing special, but being that I just happen to be a SW and am planning on building a shield, I'd like to use it to enhance my crafted item. Let's say I really get a kick out of the recharge rate. I use the proper tool (RE tool, or new one?) and extract that attribute from the shield. The looted shield is destroyed, and I have a new subcomponent to buff my soon-to-be crafted shields. After putting the item in with the other materials and commit to building it, there's a chance the item might not take too well, or might take very well to the shield I am crafting. Just to through out an arbitrary estimation, I'm thinking around +/- 5% change in the attribute lifted, based on my skill level vs. the junk's level of course. From here, the item is experimented on normally, named and built.
Here's some details I haven't quite fleshed out, and if you like this idea I encourage you to think about these:
* Can junk components be lifted to crafted components of differing levels, or do they have to have the exact same level? Perhaps a range of one level above or below, but at an added risk of failure?
* I think that adding these components should have an effect on the mass of the final product, but I can't figure a good formula.
* What to do about preventing people from lifting a .918 vs. shield effectiveness from an ion cannon and grafting it onto a .918 vs. armor effective blaster?
* This idea, in my opinion of course, would work well for components with lots of attributes (blasters, engines, shields), but it seems too easy to make uber capacitors and reactors given how many attributes they have to change. Maybe a higher risk of failure for grafting onto those components?
* How should the loot frequency change, if at all?
So, for all it's holes, I figure the pros and cons are as such:
Pros- * More variety, creativity and customization in ship designs. * More for SWs to craft (it gets boring just crafting missiles and repair kits!) * Another area of retail. More vendors, more options. * Doesn't take away from the pilot's income, nor does it remove RE'd component vendors. * Actual, usable loot doesn't go away, just becomes more rare, and thus a better prize.
Cons- * Too much reliance on SWs? * SW price gouging? (Most likely balanced out by junk vendors and the chassis broker buying junk, but it's still worth keeping in mind) * Junk vendor price gouging? * I'm sure that there's other cons I just can't think of, so have at it!
Thanks for reading, and if you like this idea, make it better!
So, for instance, I loot a broken level 5 shield. For the most part, it's nothing special, but being that I just happen to be a SW and am planning on building a shield, I'd like to use it to enhance my crafted item. Let's say I really get a kick out of the recharge rate. I use the proper tool (RE tool, or new one?) and extract that attribute from the shield. The looted shield is destroyed, and I have a new subcomponent to buff my soon-to-be crafted shields. After putting the item in with the other materials and commit to building it, there's a chance the item might not take too well, or might take very well to the shield I am crafting. Just to through out an arbitrary estimation, I'm thinking around +/- 5% change in the attribute lifted, based on my skill level vs. the junk's level of course. From here, the item is experimented on normally, named and built.
/thumbsup
A smuggler should be the one who removes, who slices the subcomponent out of the broken loot. The shipwright should then be the one who installs this "sliced-out" subcomp into one of his creations.
This would allow smugglers in on some love, say a smuggler has no interest in space but would like to be involved in the shipwright industry. Its good when a MMOGs dynamics forces players to interact cooperatively, imo.
it just doesn't make sense for them to be cut out from making ships killer since Han Solo made alot of "personal modifications", and I dont think Chewie was his shipwright.
My engine is a level 6 that blows away anyones level 9
less than 10k Mass... 95.5 top speed, all above 65 YPR
Prenerf "Inferno" reward engine. Already addressed and nerfed, almost taboo to be spoken of
I found a friend who has a reactor, 35k Mass 25k Generation... NOT REENGINEERED YET!!!!
1 player and no more have you encountered is my guess that have an exceptional reactor like this. Its as common as looting a blacksun helmet so no unbalance there.
The Entire problem with shipwright crafting(and oddly enough ALSO WITH THE LOOT) is that it's ODD LEVEL COMPONENTS.
Shipwright can craft ONLY ODD LEVEL COMPONENTS.
You can look at ANY odd level component to see the problem, even looted.
Do you have any idea how many level 2 capacitors I've looted that outdo what is physically possible on a level 9 capacitor, looted or crafted?
Do you have any idea why I use a level 2 engine until I can get up to my reward engine?
[sarcasm]What about a level 9 booster? Really outdoes that level 4 booster, eh?[/sarcasm]
You want to fix everything about BOTH loot AND crafted? Make Odd Level Components actually WORTH something.
Or, on the other hand, let Shipwrights CRAFT EVEN LEVEL COMPONENTS. That'd be even BETTER,
If they did that, they'd just have to compute the resource requirements in between the odd ones, which would be a lot easier than to revamp every piece of odd level equipment.
About the only exception to this are shields, and when you hit Level 9 even THEY get included.
Delebas
Be the chase on the ground, under the water, soaring the skies, or in the heavens; none shall escape the pursuit of the hunter.
well I posted this in another thread, but perhaps I should put this part in here,
1. lootable sub components - Lets say that a better part of space loots start being the subcomponents for stuff. So instead of a whole component like an engine, you instead loot a really good engine overdriver. That way the shipwright is still involved in crafting. I don't mind just reversing stuff since it is kinda like a smuggler slicing, but I'd rather you still need to buy the completed part from a shipwright, and this would open up more moneymaking possibilies since pilots could become suppliers of parts more than suppliers of a chance for a firespray disk. I'd still like seeing whole parts looted but just not as much as the sub components.
2. As many have mentioned, better experiementation with ypr would be very helpfull. However, if looted subcomponents came into the game, shipwrights might be able to craft something better than you can obtain looting whole pieces. Perhaps then the looted subs would make up for the lower ypr you can craft.
Lootable subcomponents WOULD be great, and I might start actually crafting things as a shipwright, IF the overlying problem of the Broken Component Levels were fixed.
Delebas
Be the chase on the ground, under the water, soaring the skies, or in the heavens; none shall escape the pursuit of the hunter.
That isn't a cause-and-effect relationship. Craftable items aren't inferior because they're odd-numbered levels. They're inferior because they were designed to be so. It's not like there's a piece of code that says 'IF componentlevel="odd" GOTO "hugepileofcrap"'
I am curious as to the holdup on fixes for capacitors and engines, though. This isn't a hard fix and everybody's known about it for a long time now.
Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent
