Please don't nerf the loot anymore. They already nerfed the reward engine to 78 to speed instead of 92.6, they nerfed loot already no need to do it more.
Exactly what was said earlier it adds variation to the game instead of one stereotype uber ship- composite in space and little variation is what we fear.
Loot is in no way going to bankrupt you. Players still are buying my chaff packs for 5k everyday. Not to mention what they'll fork out for space bombs..
Besides, with decay as it is (hopefully they'll leave decay in there) no ones uber loot will last forever, and someone always must resort to crafted. Its balanced especially with looted comps HPs so low.
Loot is fun. Let them have some fun or we won't have customers if there is no fun in space.
Golrok wrote: Please don't nerf the loot anymore. They already nerfed the reward engine to 78 to speed instead of 92.6, they nerfed loot already no need to do it more.
Exactly what was said earlier it adds variation to the game instead of one stereotype uber ship- composite in space and little variation is what we fear.
Loot is in no way going to bankrupt you. Players still are buying my chaff packs for 5k everyday. Not to mention what they'll fork out for space bombs..
Besides, with decay as it is (hopefully they'll leave decay in there) no ones uber loot will last forever, and someone always must resort to crafted. Its balanced especially with looted comps HPs so low.
Loot is fun. Let them have some fun or we won't have customers if there is no fun in space.
Loot removed variation, not adds to it, because of Reverse Engineering. Shipwright crafted components are restricted in their top end values by the resources usd to make the component, luck during the experimentation rolls and the limited number of experimentation points. The limited experimentation points guarantees that all characterstics cannot be fully experimented, with further variation being forced in by resource availibility and good/bad/indifferent experimentation rolls.
Reverse Engineering, however, ensures that the individual characterstics of a component can be maximized creating your 'composite in space' scenario, as it takes the best value of each of the individual characterstics used in the process and augments them further based on the RE level. So it's completely feasible to create, for example, a RE lvl 4+ reactor with each of its individual characteristics maximized to their limitations via reverse engineering.
As for the topic of Loot vs Crafted, do crafted components have to be better than loot? No, not necessarily. One of the major advantages of crafted components over looted ones is its availibility. A crafted component is essentially availible on demand, with resource spawns affecting the quality in some degree (able to be worked around via resource purchasing to some extent). The customer askes themselves "Do I want to spend the next 3 days grinding NPCs in this sector on the chance I might loot a component that's 10%-15% better than a crafted one?". Some people will answer yes, though prolly most will say "No" (with various comments on SOE's sadistic tendencies). Decay is not a reliable sales factor. There are very few reasons, imo, to fret over keeping every component in factory fresh condition and I don't.
BUT looted components of higher quality than crafted ones cannot be commonly found. The 92.6 engine is a prime example of this. It wasn't commonly availible loot. It wasn't even loot. It was a guaranteed availible item with guaranteed characteristics. One that because of the abnormally low certifcation level and characteristics had a much longer usable lifetime than should be expected. Essentially it came availible too early and stuck around for too long. Its situations like that when Looted vs Crafted cause conflict that has to be resolved (aka, something is gonna get nerfed).
Shipwright as a profession is almost completely separate from the ground game. However, that means the reverse is true and present a large danger: the ground game is almost completely separate from Shipwrights. The only source of demand for Shipwrights is from pilots. Even Bio-Engineer has demand generated from Creature Handlers, Non-Creature Handlers and Chefs. Loot superior to crafted items cannot be common for the sake of people's desire to go
Reverse Engineering, however, ensures that the individual characterstics of a component can be maximized creating your 'composite in space' scenario, as it takes the best value of each of the individual characterstics used in the process and augments them further based on the RE level. So it's completely feasible to create, for example, a RE lvl 4+ reactor with each of its individual characteristics maximized to their limitations via reverse engineering.
true with RE you can "maximize" your stats, the problem is that is not so easy, from what i saw every class/level of items have "common" and uncommon high stats. just an example
lv7 weapons
common: speed
uncommon: efficency vs armor, efficency vs shield
lv8 weapons
common: efficency vs armor, efficency vs shield
uncommon: speed
engines
common: YPR
uncommon: speed, mass
these are just example, as you can see is not that you can grab 7-8 random loot, put them togather and get some uber component, for example i have tons of lv8 to 10 engines but if i will put them togather i will have still a pretti slow engine because i have not a good speed one (so far i have looted only 1 engine over 100 speed)
same for example for lv8 weapons.. you can find a lot of these weapons with very good efficency but quite slow, generally 0.42+ the thing that can make these guns uber (exept the reward one ) will be a lv8 good speed one, but again is not so usual to find them, best i found so far is a 0.39 and i have a lot of them.
another thing to keep in account is that when an item drop with these rare stats it could be not overall a good item by itself, for example my engine had poor YPR values and high mass so in that case was "necessary" a RE to make it really worth, same for the shields and weapons... good or rare stat stuff generally have very bad mass in these case the RE is acting more like a correction than a real improvement.
i alredy REd some high level items but so far if i don't consider the ones in wich i used reward items, the only uber RE i've done is the one of the engine. The other ones i've done generally end up in good items but in my opinion comparable to good crafted ones, is true that i'm storing also some "rare" components, but to RE them to make some "uber" items i want to mix with some other with another rare value or very good mass, and as said these items are not so easy to find. Not to say that probably i will never use these items in PvP in wich i plan to use some full crafted ships.
as a pilot player also i like RE, is nice to hunt an item with some rare stats, and begin to know (and hate) various average quality components , also i see many complains about this, as SW see it as a lack of profit. In my opinion in this case is SW fault, RE is a service that a SW provide and as a player i don't see anything bad in paying a service, during beta i suggested that but probably now is too late to make to pay for RE.
Well, the only items I use that i can make are shields , armor.
Loot is not that rare, you can get levels 10 drops fairly easily you just have to be high level pilot. Getting 10 lvl 8-9 parts is not easy but doable for RE. I have never seen or made a item compatable to a RE part at high level, any type.
Looted capacitors = better than made by far. Biggest issue is recharge on made = sucks
Looted weapon = better than made by far, RE looted weapons not to much different the non RE. Any good looted weapon has 6/6 or better armor shield penetration this is 20% better damage then any manufactured. Only 2 stats really matter on a weapon atm Damage and penetration UNLESS you have a crap capacitor.
Looted engines = very similar to made. Problem is mass on looted can be MUCH lower. Biggest issue on made engines is speed/ mass.
Quest engine is best in game with a cuple exceptions for RE
Boosters = ehh dont really know
Shieilds = made is fine. Recharge rates on looted tend to be better, in some cases MUCH higher but rare. Looted high recharge shields are the best
Armor = mostly useless item unless you have terrible shields. Almost all players dont use high level armor 15k mass for 1k armor per part is very high. Looted = almost identical to crafted.
Reactors = Made is great , mass definatlely higher, looted mid level reactors tend to be the best cause of low mass.
Driod interface = commad rates WAY to variable, Can find a lvl 10 with 15 command or a level 1 with 16 command. Not shure whats going on with this item
Spinnthrift
Wing Commander
Posts: 1013
Registered: 03-25-2004
PA:
Some things in life are a miscarriage of justice, others are just funny. Karma's an odd thing no? Server: Chimaera
What I would like to see Shipwrights create is variable components.
I.E. Components that are designed purely for a specific type of ship. I *personally* like flying small fast light fighters. I accept that I cannot do anywhere close to the damage of a bomber or heavy fighter but I'm galled by the fact that said heavy bomber can outsprint and outperform me in many circumstances.
I'd like to remind some of you to the original game X-Wing, where an A-Wing was an immensly fast but fragile ship, the Y-Wing was a slow and ponderous creature that could take a battering, the B-Wing was an advanced version of the Y-Wing and the X-Wing was a middle of the road fighter, good in dogfighting, but inferior to the A-Wing, capable of delivering a payload but unable to deal or withstand anywhere near the damage limits of the B or Y-Wing.
For those who have read my posts on the Pilot forums about this issue - we're losing this distinction. The heavier mass ships can now outperform the lighter ones in *all* forms - especially with the current AI. Why have a super fast ship that's meant to outmanouver and outsprint and outspeed an opponent when not only is this impossible, but playing a stationary turret is a more efficient and quick manner of exp. I mean - seriously, those who have played the original games *know* that stopping and trying to kill things would be tantamount to suicide.
I think Shipwrights need their ability to create ship specific items increased, i.e. engines for light fighters vs engines for bombers. Keep loot in as it's fun though. You guys make more than enough profit as is to boot. If you guys could make fast, lightweight engines that were light fighter specific - hell, I'd use you over looted engines - knowing that the B-Wing was going, "hey slow down while we get to the mission, I know you want to kill TIE's but I can't keep up". This is still Star Wars, however much the Devs have butchered it. Let's work together - both Pilots and Shipwrights to help get that feel to the game. I know you guys are envious of loot and reward - and currently - rightly so, but so far the devs have taken quick and easy options rather than providing solutions to *everyones* benefit.
This is a game, therefore loot is fun. For those of you who've been combat monsters before taking shipwright would appreciate the rarity of loot and how much the new system makes players feel rewarded and gives them a sense of worth other than "Oooh, another 32k from a Janta/Mokk mission." For those of you who didn't play combat characters - and were armoursmiths and weaponsmiths before hand - you might appreciate the familiarity of creating the *same* items for everyone. AS's created 80% kin res for grinders, ws's max damage, min speed with little else as concern. Here we have a system that's begging for variety and a lot of what I see are people begging for bigger numbers.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I have no clue as to the game, or being a Pilot... but I think I'm right. I think players want and need that variety and now is the time to ask for it before any more stupid and silly nerfs removing *fun* are thrown in.
I've already seen first hand the effects of the *fix* on your engines... sure they go fast, but can they turn on a dime? Guys - leave loot be and start asking for the *right* things... things that put you on a par with the game - and let you have an effect - other than a mechanism to kill what fun Joe Casual has.
I think I'm done.
Gabriel' Nightstalker Jedi Padawan - Guru - Bearer of Oakleys Hunted Hunter
I see the loot being better than crafted as a problem, but one with a fairly easy solution that could be tried out. Let the mass experimentation affect the crafted object at least 3X what it does now. Yeah, you'd still have RE'd being far far better, but at least people could fit your crafted items into their ships to see how much better that loot really was. Right now, people ask
"can you make me a capacitor?"
"yes, I have one that I made this morning. Here it is."
"Holy ****, that won't even come close to fitting into a ship I get in my next tier, let alone this one. Thanks anyway."
Now that it's OK to support the removal of classes in your signature, I firmly support the removal of all the benny hill glowstick fanclub from the game; it was a lot more fun before they came.
I find it ridiculous that I can't craft a Y-Wing and all of the Mark II (Level 3) components that fit in it (shield gen, engine, booster, capacitor, 2 mid-grade blasters, 1 mid-grade ion cannon, and 1 Mark II proton launcher), but not have enough power from a crafted Mark II reactor to power all of the components, but a pilot can easily loot a reactor that will do it. What they heck is the deal with that???
Yet the pilot can go out and loot a reactor that will easily power all of the components. Kind of frustrating to sell someone a ship and have to say "You will only be able to use two of your weapons until you loot a reactor with 15k energy output. Don't worry, it shouldn't take you long to loot one with that power." Makes the shipwright look like a goober.
I am not a SW myself, but I am good friends with the SW in my guild and know what he is producing.
There are any number of SW's here complaining that they can't craft items to compete with loot:
reactors
boosters
shields
weapons
Well you can, I have yet to see a looted reactor that compares with the Mk II crafted one I use, weapons and shields he crafts out-do nearly all looted ones, heck I have done the sums on what looked like a fantastic looted one (0.8 vs A & S) and it was weaker than an equivelent crafted one (though I havn't looked and RE level 8 and above). We used to all use looted boosters, until he figured out the trick for making them and now his crafted ones far outstrip looted ones.
The only components that he cannot compete on are capacitors and engines. Even on engines he can make ones that are faster for their mass than most looted ones, and driving a bomber the YPR doesn't matter much.
So in summary, currently the only item that is always worse than looted are capacitors, and in many cases, but not always, engines.
Maybe with capacitors it is a case of finding the trick to producing them, or maybe crafted really are worse in all cases (which i agree is a bit borked, there should be some way to make it better under certain circumstances)
However crafted should not be best under all conditions, the fact that there is usable loot makes the game more fun, SW's still have the ability to make the best in most categories.
This gives you a sustainable business, maybe you need to spend more time learning your craft, maybe you just need to wait for better resources, maybe looted capacitors will always have the potential to out-do crafted, but there are plenty of components that don't.
I'd suggest waiting at least a couple more months to see the effect of new resource spawns, new tricks that are discovered by the SW community etc. before crying NERF on loot and alienating your main customers, the pilots who love the looting in space.
I think maybe the system is too constrained for the differences in chassis turning capabilites to actually be shown in play.
Explanation:
YPR values *appear* to be an actual speed value. Meaning that no matter what chassis you use, the XYZ axis thrusts will always have the same caps on them similar to your Top Speed cap. So accelerating to 55.3 axial thrust is a matter of multiplication by the Acceleration rates. But this changes in relation to forward speed, there is a relational equation in there I believe that creates those turning "sweet spots" that make faster engines using Overload X negate the effects of the equation since you can slow down to your sweet spot and still maintain a fighting speed. And since it takes more mass to fit a bigger/badder engine, then behemoths will wind up just as agile as dragonflies.
My opinion on this would be to really open up the A-Wing and the Advanced. 450+ YPR on the chassis to give them nearly uncontrollable turning power (and to make them turn better than a Kihraxz). And kick them down to 55K or less mass to make squeezing everything into them very difficult and make fitting a Level 8 gun into one an exercise in patience. Light fighter means LIGHT fighter!
Why do I say that after they just added mass to these ships? Because I have a Kihraxz light at 40K mass that has only 3 "god" pieces in it and its sick. I have a level 2 engine with 69.6 top speed (runs at 904 with Overload 3 on), a pre-fix droid interface with a 15.1 speed and level 2 Capacitor that is 700+ power and 38+ Regen. I also have a loot reactor with only 9k-ish generation cause I don't need more, crap armor, crap booster for JIC and a hot shield (1100+ front and back). Oh....and a level 8 blaster with 23K mass, double .6's and 2k-3k damage. No Ordnance, no Countermeasures cause I ran out of mass. If this was an A-wing, I would have both of those and a much better engine for that 25K extra mass. The only way anyone in an A-wing or a Advanced would beat me right now is if they used their extra speed to out run me long enough to turn around and attack me head-on because I have a better turn rate than they do in a Tier *2* ship (400/400/200). So cut their mass back down for trade in turning acceleration and the fighters are quite viable in their assigned role. They become easily capable of out-turning any other ship, but cannot take much damage and thus must RELY on that turning capability.
Now some will argue that if you make these ships have such a high YPR acceleration they won't be able to be touched in PvP by heavier fighters. This is true yet untrue. Firstly, different pilots want different engines. Speedy Racer here in his Advanced may want the fastest engine he can cram into his ship with indifferent YPR values, whereas Mickey Barishnikoff (misspelled on purpose) may want his A-wing to do backflips and cartwheels and want the highest YPR values he can get out of an engine that will fit into his ship. But bigger engines should have better YPR values to allow larger ships a chance to "keep up" and stand a chance at hitting the agile fighter if it doesn't slow down. 400x60.1/1204 (and this is a made up equation, I do not know what the real one is) is comparable to 100x80.4/402 making the behemoth fly much slower but giving him a decent chance to shoot back.
With all that in mind, increasing the crafted engine's YPR rates would only be for the good. As the difference in axial acceleration becomes more pronounced, the difference between ships and their roles will become more apparent. While they can turn at the same rate eventually, the one who can hit top turn speed the fastest will get those hits in. And looted engines simply cannot be touched on YPR maximums by crafters.
A final note to people who wish to argue about what should be the "fastest" ship in space and whether big ships should be able to go the same speed as smaller ships. With enough time, anything in space can go any speed. It is about acceleration values people, not the top speed of the engine (which is where its acceleration value drops so low as to be measured in time instead of distance traveled). The A-wing and Advanced had the best acceleration due to low mass and powerful engines. "Riding a rocket" is not far from truth! I think personally that the "fastest" ships (including the other ones that are classified as fast) should have higher acceleration rates than they have now. The difference between 35 and 40 is pretty negligible from what I have seen and experienced. tweaking those to have a greater variety might be a better answer than having crafters make "better" top speed engines because nothing will change by altering that number. Changing the Engines YPR values and the Chassis' acceleration values would get you the "tactical classification" distinctions you desire.
I am not a SW myself, but I am good friends with the SW in my guild and know what he is producing.
There are any number of SW's here complaining that they can't craft items to compete with loot:
reactors
boosters
shields
weapons
Well you can, I have yet to see a looted reactor that compares with the Mk II crafted one I use, weapons and shields he crafts out-do nearly all looted ones, heck I have done the sums on what looked like a fantastic looted one (0.8 vs A & S) and it was weaker than an equivelent crafted one (though I havn't looked and RE level 8 and above). We used to all use looted boosters, until he figured out the trick for making them and now his crafted ones far outstrip looted ones.
The only components that he cannot compete on are capacitors and engines. Even on engines he can make ones that are faster for their mass than most looted ones, and driving a bomber the YPR doesn't matter much.
So in summary, currently the only item that is always worse than looted are capacitors, and in many cases, but not always, engines.
Maybe with capacitors it is a case of finding the trick to producing them, or maybe crafted really are worse in all cases (which i agree is a bit borked, there should be some way to make it better under certain circumstances)
However crafted should not be best under all conditions, the fact that there is usable loot makes the game more fun, SW's still have the ability to make the best in most categories.
This gives you a sustainable business, maybe you need to spend more time learning your craft, maybe you just need to wait for better resources, maybe looted capacitors will always have the potential to out-do crafted, but there are plenty of components that don't.
I'd suggest waiting at least a couple more months to see the effect of new resource spawns, new tricks that are discovered by the SW community etc. before crying NERF on loot and alienating your main customers, the pilots who love the looting in space.
All i have to say is this:
I can craft 16 k level 7 reactors, I have a looted level 8 28k reactor.
I can craft 1500+ shields, i have looted 2500+ shields
I can craft 1300 level 7 armor, I have looted 1500 level 7 armor
I can craft 1500-2500 level 7 weapons, i have looted 2000-3000 level 8 weapons.
I can craft 89-91 engines (with enhancers) i have a few looted 92 engines and I have looted level 2 engines with 70+ speeds
I have a looted 48.9 recharge cap and looted many level 2 caps with 37-40 recharge
I have looted 8.5 droid interfaces
Do we really want loot nerfed? OR do we want to craft better i think crafting better with more options would be better solution then pissing off the masses by nerfing loot.
Kiashia [90 Elder Jedi, 90 Spy, 90 Medic, 90 Bounty hunter, 90 Commando] The crystal is the heart of the blade. The heart is the crystal of the Jedi. The Jedi is the crystal of the Force. The Force is the blade of the heart.
My only issue is capacitors, yes I think that some looted guns are better and especially in the vs. armor / vs. shields area, but this is someplace that i could experiment in i just dont. I think the flexibility of the experimentation in weapons is enough to keep us in business, however I have NEVER sold even 1 crafted capacitor, they are utterly horible now, when someone asks me for one, i pull one out of my loot, because i know that I can't even come close to a crappy looted capacitor with a crafted one.
I am not a SW myself, but I am good friends with the SW in my guild and know what he is producing.
There are any number of SW's here complaining that they can't craft items to compete with loot:
reactors
boosters
shields
weapons
Well you can, I have yet to see a looted reactor that compares with the Mk II crafted one I use, weapons and shields he crafts out-do nearly all looted ones, heck I have done the sums on what looked like a fantastic looted one (0.8 vs A & S) and it was weaker than an equivelent crafted one (though I havn't looked and RE level 8 and above). We used to all use looted boosters, until he figured out the trick for making them and now his crafted ones far outstrip looted ones.
The only components that he cannot compete on are capacitors and engines. Even on engines he can make ones that are faster for their mass than most looted ones, and driving a bomber the YPR doesn't matter much.
So in summary, currently the only item that is always worse than looted are capacitors, and in many cases, but not always, engines.
Maybe with capacitors it is a case of finding the trick to producing them, or maybe crafted really are worse in all cases (which i agree is a bit borked, there should be some way to make it better under certain circumstances)
However crafted should not be best under all conditions, the fact that there is usable loot makes the game more fun, SW's still have the ability to make the best in most categories.
This gives you a sustainable business, maybe you need to spend more time learning your craft, maybe you just need to wait for better resources, maybe looted capacitors will always have the potential to out-do crafted, but there are plenty of components that don't.
I'd suggest waiting at least a couple more months to see the effect of new resource spawns, new tricks that are discovered by the SW community etc. before crying NERF on loot and alienating your main customers, the pilots who love the looting in space.
All i have to say is this:
I can craft 16 k level 7 reactors, I have a looted level 8 28k reactor.
I have looted a 17k mass 18k energy reactor... but still i use low level one... for example i have a crafted lv1 reactor 1k mass 11k energy and it power a 3 weapon 2.5k shield X-wing running engine and weapon3... why i should put in it a 17k mass awesome uber looted reactor when a 1k mass crafted one is just fine? (this both for looted and crafted) Also yup some looted are better than crafted but from the last patch 99% of them are crap.
I can craft 1500+ shields, i have looted 2500+ shields
This is not a looted shield but a tier4 reward one, i have it too and is awesome but is not a loot problem is a reward one.
I can craft 1300 level 7 armor, I have looted 1500 level 7 armor
I have a crafted lv5 armors with 1k armor/hits and decent mass, why i should use a lv7 that weight 3 times of it to grab just 200-400 hps? not to say that armor decay faaaaaaast so dunno how much a rare looted one is really worth.
I can craft 1500-2500 level 7 weapons, i have looted 2000-3000 level 8 weapons.
level 7 weapons with around 0.3 speed, lv8 ones with over 0.4 speed and more efficency... crafted lv7 weight almost half than a lv8 for generally same or better damage over time (there is a lv8 reward gun with 2.5k-3.6k damage but again this is a reward problem)
I can craft 89-91 engines (with enhancers) i have a few looted 92 engines and I have looted level 2 engines with 70+ speeds
A looted engine that doesn't exist enymore, probably same for the level 2 ones, all the engines post patch i looted have crappy speed, best lv10 i found is 90 speed and 50k mass...
Also crafted engines can be used with Engine4 that can give them 10% more speed and good maneuverability, whitout the fear to loose an uber item.
I have a looted 48.9 recharge cap and looted many level 2 caps with 37-40 recharge
I agree looted caps are waaaaay better than crafted ones, some fix is necessary (hopefully a boost in SW ones) also as for most items i will never use a 50+ recharge item if it weight 30k mass.
I have looted 8.5 droid interfaces
With 20k mass at best, you can put them only in a multiplayer ship, actually droid interfaces are quite "useless" in my opinion lowest mass in this component is the thing to look at.
Do we really want loot nerfed? OR do we want to craft better i think crafting better with more options would be better solution then pissing off the masses by nerfing loot.
I agree that there are some imbalances, but most of the time is due to reward items not looted ones, while other times simply items works in a different way (like lv7 vs lv8 guns).
I will also like to see items utility fixed, for a lot of items a lv1 to 3 is just sufficent to run the ship well so all other higher level ones are simply useless.
For other items (like armors) sometimes the mass required for a minimal benefit is also so high that is not worth even in the highest mass fighters.
I can craft 16 k level 7 reactors, I have a looted level 8 28k reactor.
I have looted a 17k mass 18k energy reactor... but still i use low level one... for example i have a crafted lv1 reactor 1k mass 11k energy and it power a 3 weapon 2.5k shield X-wing running engine and weapon3... why i should put in it a 17k mass awesome uber looted reactor when a 1k mass crafted one is just fine? (this both for looted and crafted) Also yup some looted are better than crafted but from the last patch 99% of them are crap.
I have a 13k level 2 one i use in my own ship. I find 11 12 and 13k level 1 and 2's all the time.
I can craft 1500+ shields, i have looted 2500+ shields
This is not a looted shield but a tier4 reward one, i have it too and is awesome but is not a loot problem is a reward one.
No not the reward one i have that too, i have a couple loot ones that go 2300-2500 even level 7's that break 2 k.
I can craft 1300 level 7 armor, I have looted 1500 level 7 armor
I have a crafted lv5 armors with 1k armor/hits and decent mass, why i should use a lv7 that weight 3 times of it to grab just 200-400 hps? not to say that armor decay faaaaaaast so dunno how much a rare looted one is really worth.
Thats not the point, its the fact they are better then crafted.
I can craft 1500-2500 level 7 weapons, i have looted 2000-3000 level 8 weapons.
level 7 weapons with around 0.3 speed, lv8 ones with over 0.4 speed and more efficency... crafted lv7 weight almost half than a lv8 for generally same or better damage over time (there is a lv8 reward gun with 2.5k-3.6k damage but again this is a reward problem)
Tick for tack. You can RE them, lighter and faster. I craft my blasters with a .25 speed fires so fast a 48 cap cant cope.
I can craft 89-91 engines (with enhancers) i have a few looted 92 engines and I have looted level 2 engines with 70+ speeds
A looted engine that doesn't exist enymore, probably same for the level 2 ones, all the engines post patch i looted have crappy speed, best lv10 i found is 90 speed and 50k mass...
Also crafted engines can be used with Engine4 that can give them 10% more speed and good maneuverability, whitout the fear to loose an uber item.
LOL WRONG I JUST got a 71 speed level 2 on thursday.
I have a looted 48.9 recharge cap and looted many level 2 caps with 37-40 recharge
I agree looted caps are waaaaay better than crafted ones, some fix is necessary (hopefully a boost in SW ones) also as for most items i will never use a 50+ recharge item if it weight 30k mass.
I have looted 8.5 droid interfaces
With 20k mass at best, you can put them only in a multiplayer ship, actually droid interfaces are quite "useless" in my opinion lowest mass in this component is the thing to look at.
I don't use droid interfaces either but crafted ones are just as heavy.
Do we really want loot nerfed? OR do we want to craft better i think crafting better with more options would be better solution then pissing off the masses by nerfing loot.
I agree that there are some imbalances, but most of the time is due to reward items not looted ones, while other times simply items works in a different way (like lv7 vs lv8 guns).
I will also like to see items utility fixed, for a lot of items a lv1 to 3 is just sufficent to run the ship well so all other higher level ones are simply useless.
For other items (like armors) sometimes the mass required for a minimal benefit is also so high that is not worth even in the highest mass fighters.
The issues are not so much with the loot items to me as it is the issues are with the crafted items. Looted items can be made better, ALOT better in many cases, crafted items come as is. They need to look more on fixing the crafting then nerfing the loot cause if they nerf the loot, with out fixing the crafting first then there will be major issues.
For one you can not fit all player crafted items into an A wing, there simply is not enough mass unless you use low end crafted items.
A wing holds around 65k mass.
mark IV shields 15 k
90 speed engine 35k
advanced blaster 15k
Thats 65 k right there with no cap no armor no reactor droid interface etc etc etc etc. Now this is suposed to be a super fast ship, highly manuverable.
So what fits the bill?
low end high speed engines loot
low end super light reactors loot
crafted shields
crafted weapons
light weight armor (crafted or looted)
lightweight higer speed looted boosters
No droid interface or old lightweight high speed ones
No ordinance
No counter mesures
If they nerf the looted items with out fixing the craftable or adding light weight high end motors, the A wing and all other low mass ships like it will be very un-fun when as they are putting around at a snappy 800 they are suddenly faced with tier 4 fighters that move at least 1100 cruising speeds .
Kiashia [90 Elder Jedi, 90 Spy, 90 Medic, 90 Bounty hunter, 90 Commando] The crystal is the heart of the blade. The heart is the crystal of the Jedi. The Jedi is the crystal of the Force. The Force is the blade of the heart.
The issues are not so much with the loot items to me as it is the issues are with the crafted items. Looted items can be made better, ALOT better in many cases, crafted items come as is. They need to look more on fixing the crafting then nerfing the loot cause if they nerf the loot, with out fixing the crafting first then there will be major issues.
For one you can not fit all player crafted items into an A wing, there simply is not enough mass unless you use low end crafted items.
A wing holds around 65k mass.
mark IV shields 15 k
90 speed engine 35k
advanced blaster 15k
Thats 65 k right there with no cap no armor no reactor droid interface etc etc etc etc. Now this is suposed to be a super fast ship, highly manuverable.
So what fits the bill?
low end high speed engines loot
low end super light reactors loot
crafted shields
crafted weapons
light weight armor (crafted or looted)
lightweight higer speed looted boosters
No droid interface or old lightweight high speed ones
No ordinance
No counter mesures
If they nerf the looted items with out fixing the craftable or adding light weight high end motors, the A wing and all other low mass ships like it will be very un-fun when as they are putting around at a snappy 800 they are suddenly faced with tier 4 fighters that move at least 1100 cruising speeds .
in my opinion this problem is not of crafting items but of ships mass system, in the example above are not the crafted engines crappy with ther 35k mass is the mass model that prevent to a light fighter to fit a better engine
Also in the last patch crafted engines got a nice boost /cheer, and some uber common loot items like low level engines or reactor seem to drop way less frequently.
these are some stats i found in the thread "post patch engines" in this forum
quote
MK IV - about 88.9-90 depending on resources MK V - 103-105 as above
YPR seem to be around mid 50 but this is not a big problem
as they are crafted engines you can put engine overload4 to improve speed by 40% and YPR by way more than engine overload3
this will make these engines comparable to a looted lv7-8 100 speed engine and to a looted level 9-10 110+speed engine that are really awesome engines
these are top end new engines and generally are far better than looted ones
coming back to the A-wing here a possible config
lv7 crafted shield 15k
lv7 90speed crafted engine 15k
lv7 adv speed blaster or ion 15k
lv1 crafted 1k mass 11k energy reactor
lv1 droid comp 500 mass
lv2 30+ looted capacitator 1.5k
it come out with 48k mass, i have 17k more mass to fit armor and booster or maybe a lv9 weapon with a bit of luck and an high quality chassis or even the reward shield if i can RE it for a decent mass.... it can even try to fit a 100speed engine but he have to drop the shield to a lv5 1.2k (who in the end is just 500 points less than the lv7
as you can see using mostly crafted components i can end up with a very good A-wing that with engine4 should have a speed of around 1250 and a very good maneuverability.
with some very good (rare) loot probably it can come out even better, but with some really rare or reward stuff, also looking around i don't see many A-wing superior to this one for speed, even among the ones that use the old engine or some "common" loot.
Now if the A-wing is still quite viable ship is not the same for lighter fighters like the BS light fighter and the TIE In, with their 40k is way more harder to keep a good functionality but this not because differences between looted or crafted but just because with their low mass they have troubles to fit competitive equipement, expecially the engine to be able to have their superior speed that is needed for they style of flightm.
For example even if one of the uber old "uber" 70speed lv2 looted engines they will never be able to catch an oppressor with a crafted speed 100 engine.
Dark_0ne wrote: 2 issues: 1) capacitors - crafted ones cannot even get close to most of the low level loot drops
2) weapons - experimenting on the vs shield or armour mods is rubbish !!! nowhere near enough improvement to allow us to approach some of the looted values.
Also - why are odd numbered levels of loot generally worse than the level lower ? Not only is the mass lower, but more often than not the effectiveness is higher as well !! If that was a misguided attempt to make crafted items more preferable, it doesn't work !! I'm still using a lot of even numbered loot in my ship, and I am a master shipwright with access to some pretty good resources.
I would think it was fairly straightforward ....
Let the shipwright achieve the max/min available value on any single experimentation line when using the best resources, and average values on everything else. That way, we would be able to compete against a fair proportion of the loot, but would naturally not be in the same league as a reverse engineered component.
As far as weapons go, I have my guild and several friends constatly comming to me ofr weapons. With a few exceptions I can make weapons far better than what is looted. A rough example is
LvL 7
Mass: 17k
damage 1300-2300
vs. shields 0.5
vs Armor 0.5
energy per shot 18.1
Now usually the sub component I use is to reduce the energy per shot, and I put 3 points into vs shields and 3 into vs armor, and the rest into max damage. Now I'm sure I can get a weapon around 2100 max damage with a higher vs shields, and armor. but that's up to person getting the weapon. Me I use an Ion cannon that has a 0.92 vs shields and 2 mixed weapons, Once you get those shields down the rest is cake.
) will be a lv8 good speed one, but again is not so usual to find them, best i found so far is a 0.39 and i have a lot of them.
