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Star Wars Galaxies Forums : PreNGEarchive : Professions : Shipwright : Focus Thread: Loot Versus Craftables
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Re: Focus Thread: Loot Versus Craftables
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Sar-larid
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'Craftable items aren't inferior because they're odd-numbered levels. They're inferior because they were designed to be so. It's not like there's a piece of code that says 'IF componentlevel="odd" GOTO "hugepileofcrap"''
 
Actually, if you kept your eyes on the LOOT odd level items as well as the shipwright crafted ones, you'd see that that's precisely the case.

Delebas

Be the chase on the ground, under the water, soaring the skies, or in the heavens;
none shall escape the pursuit of the hunter.
02-25-2005 07:22 PM  

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Re: Focus Thread: Loot Versus Craftables
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TomoRainer
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That's circumstantial evidence at best and a much less likely scenario than a few others, foremost among them being odd-numbered loot is poor so as to not directly compete with crafted gear.




Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent
02-25-2005 07:36 PM  

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Re: Focus Thread: Loot Versus Craftables
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Sar-larid
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"That's circumstantial evidence at best and a much less likely scenario than a few others, foremost among them being odd-numbered loot is poor so as to not directly compete with crafted gear."
 
You want to look at the more than 1500 loot components I have available to stare at? POST-RE, even?

Delebas

Be the chase on the ground, under the water, soaring the skies, or in the heavens;
none shall escape the pursuit of the hunter.
02-25-2005 07:47 PM  

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Re: Focus Thread: Loot Versus Craftables
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TomoRainer
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Your proof goes something like this: all odd-numbered components are junk. All crafted components are odd-numbered. Therefore, all crafted components are junk.

What it fails to take into account is that there are systemic differences between looted gear and crafted. In fact, the two are completely independent of each other. The devs could, for instance, make crafted stuff uber without changing odd-numbered looted stuff at all, or vice versa. There's nothing that ties the quality of one to the quality of the other. If they both stink in comparison to even-numbered loot, that's mere coincidence.




Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent
02-26-2005 01:02 AM  

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Re: Focus Thread: Loot Versus Craftables
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Sar-larid
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Reply 125 of 130

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"Your proof goes something like this: all odd-numbered components are junk. All crafted components are odd-numbered. Therefore, all crafted components are junk."
 
And it's fit every capacitor/booster/engine I've ever seen; saving components since JTL launched, hitting every shipwright store listed on the planetary map, mastering every squadron, getting 70 million prestige points.
 
"What it fails to take into account is that there are systemic differences between looted gear and crafted. In fact, the two are completely independent of each other. The devs could, for instance, make crafted stuff uber without changing odd-numbered looted stuff at all, or vice versa."
 
You'll notice they half-way attempted that with engines, when they boosted the crafted top speed possibilities(as well as nerfing the Level 6 Reward engine). Looted odd level engines STILL do not measure up(so that problem still exists, and Top Speed numbers are STILL worthless on them, to say nothing of their YPR).
 
"There's nothing that ties the quality of one to the quality of the other. If they both stink in comparison to even-numbered loot, that's mere coincidence."
 
When it gets in the thousands, it's not a coincidence. You have to be ignoring it completely. Look at the range of recharge values on level 9 capacitors a shipwright can make, from as little recharge to as much, and see how it compares to the range of the looted ones. It's obvious.

Delebas

Be the chase on the ground, under the water, soaring the skies, or in the heavens;
none shall escape the pursuit of the hunter.
02-26-2005 12:05 PM  

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Re: Focus Thread: Loot Versus Craftables
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deadOne
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Here is the problem as I see it:
 
As a SW I can craft a component that is below par with a looted component of the same level. I can put in ONE upgrade that raises ONE attribute well above any looted/RE'd item. (except for occasional RARE drops)
 
As a pilot I can collect components that individually have one or two GOOD stats and combine them together so that ALL stats are far superior to a crafted item. (I will not use 'filler' parts in a RE, Every component has to have a contributing stat to the RE, this method has gotten me some pretty uber lvl 4-8 components.
 
If there is a fix, it can't be blanket 'nerf this tweak that'. There won't be a simple solution.
 
BUT my 2 cents idea:
 
Change craftable components to allow multiple upgrade parts BUT somehow force the SW to balance the upgrades. i.e each component draws so much weight/power/mass and that is capped per component, basically treat components as mini ships.
 
Then if a SW has a particularly lucky assembly of a blaster subcomponent (we'll call it the beam emitter), and gets an exceptionally low power draw, he can put in a refire upgrade that draws more of the blaster's base power than would be possible otherwise.
 
This way you can have one or 2 Uber stats that outpace any RE component, but the rest remain fairly below par,
 
Or  balance the upgrades and receive a component that is around  par with RE components.
 

Taled Naftruh; Enor Naftruh: Happy customer from launch through CU. Sent back to dark age of camelot by the NGE.
03-08-2005 08:21 AM  

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Re: Focus Thread: Loot Versus Craftables
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amandastarcrest
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Golrok wrote:

experimentation.

So, for instance, I loot a broken level 5 shield. For the most part, it's nothing special, but being that I just happen to be a SW and am planning on building a shield, I'd like to use it to enhance my crafted item. Let's say I really get a kick out of the recharge rate. I use the proper tool (RE tool, or new one?) and extract that attribute from the shield. The looted shield is destroyed, and I have a new subcomponent to buff my soon-to-be crafted shields. After putting the item in with the other materials and commit to building it, there's a chance the item might not take too well, or might take very well to the shield I am crafting. Just to through out an arbitrary estimation, I'm thinking around +/- 5% change in the attribute lifted, based on my skill level vs. the junk's level of course. From here, the item is experimented on normally, named and built.

/thumbsup

A smuggler should be the one who removes, who slices the subcomponent out of the broken loot.  The shipwright should then be the one who installs this "sliced-out" subcomp into one of his creations. 

This would allow smugglers in on some love, say a smuggler has no interest in space but would like to be involved in the shipwright industry.  Its good when a MMOGs dynamics forces players to interact cooperatively, imo.

it just doesn't make sense for them to be cut out from making ships killer since Han Solo made alot of "personal modifications", and I dont think Chewie was his shipwright.

 


I like both of these ideals!  /deepbow

I like the ideal of other professions getting in on the act/fun.

:** A'manda Starcrest **
*Starcrest Manufacturing*
WP -3950 4050 Theed Naboo

03-09-2005 11:29 AM  

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Re: Focus Thread: Loot Versus Craftables
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Golrok
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Golrok

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There was an interview back in July with Haden Blackman and he clearly stated that smugs would be involved with SW's slicing wise, but they stealth edited that statement from the link.  Their excuse was something like it would create an unbalance, how would random slicing of crafted Y/P/R's create unbalanced?  I hated surrendering master smuggler but it was going no where at the time.  I thought how cool that'll be, both master shipwright/master smug- the utimate shipper.  But nah.. Smug had to go, as it wasn't going to benefit building ships.  I suspect it was removed because its been rumored that coding slicing is kinda a headache, and "it will unbalance SW" was just an excuse.
 
They say you get all the "best" stats from RE'd cannons, but I have yet to see an RE"d cannon blast faster than what I can craft- .27 speed.  I might be able to get faster blaster using "pure gold" resources.
 
Not too many  RE'd engines that beat crafted top speed.  A smart pilot owns both a crafted and RE'd engine and decides whats appropriate for the mission ahead.  Do you really need a high YPR/lower top speed to make strafing runs on gunboats?  And why risk unnesesary decay on uber RE'd engines?
 
There will always be those pilots who say "OH no way am I going to fork over creds for  crafted, I'm all looter" but then they'll be in the pilot forum the most asking what their doing wrong.
 
Your looted 12k gen/1k mass reactor is real cute and all, until its the first thing that gets shot out with its tin foil shell of 80 AP's/ 50 HP's.

03-31-2005 10:33 AM  

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Re: Focus Thread: Loot Versus Craftables
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CommTampers
Wing Commander
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The devs still haven't gotten the point.............BUMP

Lieutenant Bon ~ Sabre 4 ~ Captain of the Midnight Blue ~ Field Doctor
04-01-2005 05:21 PM  

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Re: Focus Thread: Loot Versus Craftables
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Sar-larid
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Sar-larid
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"The devs still haven't gotten the point.............BUMP"
 
The thread is stickied. You'll never bump it over itself.

Delebas

Be the chase on the ground, under the water, soaring the skies, or in the heavens;
none shall escape the pursuit of the hunter.
04-01-2005 05:41 PM  

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