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Forum FAQ   Search   Usergroups   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Freeman's MMO canned by NC Soft Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next          WildcatMMO Forum Index -> Star Wars Galaxies Refuge View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Bob_Blawblaw Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 21, 2008 Posts: 17 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:01 am    Post subject: wildcat wrote: I think that the NGE has devalued the Star Wars IP for a MMO for at least the next decade. Any company licensing it, even if "exclusive" is going to be overpaying, as they will inherit, fairly or unfairly, it's legacy. Sad but true. Now with PE already damaging the Star Trek IP rights with their shenanigans I see BOTH my favorite Sci-Fi IPs, both would seem to be a match made in heaven for a virtual world game unlikely to ever be done properly. Really, the best hope for us is for CCP to add a true ground game after ambulation in EVE. I have to agree, the SW IP has been tarnished and it will effect the reception of the next SW MMO whether it's good or bad. What SOE/LA failed to realize is that the people who were players of SWG Pre-CU for the most part, were the entire core MMO playing SW fanbase. We're the core of the apple. 200,000 is not many for an MMO these days, but we were the early adopters who stear the SW fanship. The hardcores. It blows my mind that they thought they could spit on their most devout fans with no consequence whatsoever. They may not have lost the entire massive SW fanbase, but they did hurt the entire MMO playing SW fanbase, which is who they need to have on board when launching any new SW MMO. If the next game is to be successful, they will have to either A) target a casual SW audience, or B) suck up to the vets (who would make up the most ardent fanbase for a 'highly cannonized' SW MMO). Unfortunetly, I can't see them going with B. I think they've burnt that bridge. Back to top wildcat Admin Cabal Joined: Dec 23, 2007 Posts: 166 Location: Huntington, WV Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:24 am    Post subject: And a "casual" game aimed at a hardcore audience is doomed to fail. Blizzard OWNS the casual market. Lock, stock, and barrel. The hardcore market is still untapped. Gamers are a lot more hardcore in general than publishers want to give us credit for. This whole "aim at the casual gamer" crap = $$$$ needs to die. I'm not against making casual games, but they are doing this at the expense of the core gamer market. One bad example: The new SimCity game... They deliberately "Nancy'd' it, it's a much more "casual" game. I won't even consider buying it. WoW represents the absolute limit for a "casual" MMO. Any MMO is going to expect you to pay for more than a retail box. You will have to pay a subscription, or a "macrotranscam" payment or something along the way. Right then and there you have wiped out the "casual" appeal. Star Wars and Star Trek fans are hardcore. The true fanbase is much smaller than the total audience for the movies/TV shows, etc. The subset of those fans who would pay a monthly fee for a MMORPG are even smaller and even MORE hardcore. What I'm saying is that any MMO aimed at Star Wars or Star Trek fans that ISNT hardcore and aimed at 200-500K subs is not going to appeal to us. Back to top theslider Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 22, 2008 Posts: 3 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:45 am    Post subject: Re: Freeman's MMO canned by NC Soft Dundee wrote: wildcat wrote: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16916 Jeff "Father of the NGE" Freeman is now out of the industry. I'm not out just yet - not even out of Spacetime, as it happens. Even if I were one of those who were "let-go" (hate that phrase), I wouldn't be out of the industry. I probably won't be until I retire, or die. I had several recruiters contact me the same day that we got the news NCsoft had canceled, for example... Lord knows I don't have any sort of talents, skills, or abilities that I could use to feed myself outside of the game industry - so this is what I'm going to do 'til I'm not working at all any more. Really, career-wise, I'm in fine shape. -Remaining mindless drivel snipped- I beg to differ dude... Just about EVERYTHING you do in *your* profession directly relates to the quality of work you do, or else you're rendered obsolete and on the unemployment line. Higher-ups see this; and they take notice. Don't tell me you have "recruiters calling you all the time" because I have them calling me too, and we're pretty close to being in the same industry. Only difference between our jobs is that I actually PRODUCE, whereas you do alot of "deadline pushing" and "side-of-the-mouth" speak that by the time they actually catch on to your MO you've fucked something up and they get rid of you anyway. Don't worry, Spacetime will catch on to you soon enough... You were pretty much the driving force behind the NGE. You built it. You sold your higher-ups on it. It was shitty code and you knew it. I can almost see it: you thought the NGE would be your ticket to fame in the dev world. It backfired. Though I personally think you're the biggest loser on this planet, I'm glad you came here to post with us; the more you post the more we laugh! Back to top JediGeek Just off the shuttle Joined: Dec 24, 2007 Posts: 13 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:52 am    Post subject: Re: Freeman's MMO canned by NC Soft theslider wrote: Dundee wrote: wildcat wrote: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16916 Jeff "Father of the NGE" Freeman is now out of the industry. I'm not out just yet - not even out of Spacetime, as it happens. Even if I were one of those who were "let-go" (hate that phrase), I wouldn't be out of the industry. I probably won't be until I retire, or die. I had several recruiters contact me the same day that we got the news NCsoft had canceled, for example... Lord knows I don't have any sort of talents, skills, or abilities that I could use to feed myself outside of the game industry - so this is what I'm going to do 'til I'm not working at all any more. Really, career-wise, I'm in fine shape. -Remaining mindless drivel snipped- I beg to differ dude... Just about EVERYTHING you do in *your* profession directly relates to the quality of work you do, or else you're rendered obsolete and on the unemployment line. Higher-ups see this; and they take notice. Don't tell me you have "recruiters calling you all the time" because I have them calling me too, and we're pretty close to being in the same industry. Only difference between our jobs is that I actually PRODUCE, whereas you do alot of "deadline pushing" and "side-of-the-mouth" speak that by the time they actually catch on to your MO you've fucked something up and they get rid of you anyway. Don't worry, Spacetime will catch on to you soon enough... You were pretty much the driving force behind the NGE. You built it. You sold your higher-ups on it. It was shitty code and you knew it. I can almost see it: you thought the NGE would be your ticket to fame in the dev world. It backfired. Though I personally think you're the biggest loser on this planet, I'm glad you came here to post with us; the more you post the more we laugh! Um... Did you read the rest of the thread? I don't think you did. Read it all and it might change some of your opinions. _________________ Eve: Cardoh Dycen SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen R.I.P. WoW: Too many to name CoH/CoV: Don't remember Back to top theslider Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 22, 2008 Posts: 3 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:57 am    Post subject: Re: Freeman's MMO canned by NC Soft JediGeek wrote: theslider wrote: Dundee wrote: wildcat wrote: http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16916 Jeff "Father of the NGE" Freeman is now out of the industry. I'm not out just yet - not even out of Spacetime, as it happens. Even if I were one of those who were "let-go" (hate that phrase), I wouldn't be out of the industry. I probably won't be until I retire, or die. I had several recruiters contact me the same day that we got the news NCsoft had canceled, for example... Lord knows I don't have any sort of talents, skills, or abilities that I could use to feed myself outside of the game industry - so this is what I'm going to do 'til I'm not working at all any more. Really, career-wise, I'm in fine shape. -Remaining mindless drivel snipped- I beg to differ dude... Just about EVERYTHING you do in *your* profession directly relates to the quality of work you do, or else you're rendered obsolete and on the unemployment line. Higher-ups see this; and they take notice. Don't tell me you have "recruiters calling you all the time" because I have them calling me too, and we're pretty close to being in the same industry. Only difference between our jobs is that I actually PRODUCE, whereas you do alot of "deadline pushing" and "side-of-the-mouth" speak that by the time they actually catch on to your MO you've fucked something up and they get rid of you anyway. Don't worry, Spacetime will catch on to you soon enough... You were pretty much the driving force behind the NGE. You built it. You sold your higher-ups on it. It was shitty code and you knew it. I can almost see it: you thought the NGE would be your ticket to fame in the dev world. It backfired. Though I personally think you're the biggest loser on this planet, I'm glad you came here to post with us; the more you post the more we laugh! Um... Did you read the rest of the thread? I don't think you did. Read it all and it might change some of your opinions. Yes, I read it, and no, my opinions aren't changed. I don't care what he or anyone says. He should be ousted from the industry, or at least kept as far away from making decisions or creating content that's intended for mass audiences as possible. I have my opinions, you have yours. I don't flame you for yours, so don't flame me about mine. That is all. Back to top solusbellator Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 23, 2008 Posts: 4 Location: Oklahoma Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:11 pm    Post subject: I must say I do respect Jeff for coming in here and talking. You got some big brass ones I gotta say. I don't have much to add to what's been asked already, but it certainly has been insightful. /salute Back to top Dundee Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 13, 2008 Posts: 25 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:16 pm    Post subject: wildcat wrote: What I'm saying is that any MMO aimed at Star Wars or Star Trek fans that ISNT hardcore and aimed at 200-500K subs is not going to appeal to us. I think you're spot on, there. I still believe you have a chance of also appealing to a broader audience, but if what you are making is entirely generic (aimed at an audience of everybody) then it isn't anything at all. There's nothing there for anyone to like to any degree. _________________ --Jeff Freeman Back to top Dundee Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 13, 2008 Posts: 25 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Freeman's MMO canned by NC Soft theslider wrote: I have my opinions, you have yours. I don't flame you for yours, so don't flame me about mine. From my perspective, your opinion is a flame (as I am sure you intended). I can't really flame you back though, ironically because you are wrong. If I were out of the game industry, I could talk all kinds of smack. But meh... I can't think of a good come-back anyway. It's not as though you're the only person with that opinion, nor even the only person who'll keep it forever (because like you, they don't care what I or anyone says). I am glad most people don't come to regard the opinions they've formed from things they read on the internet as scripture, but if that's what works for you then who am I to judge? _________________ --Jeff Freeman Back to top smg77 Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 24, 2008 Posts: 10 Location: Portland, OR Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: This has been a fascinating thread and it answers a bunch of questions I always had about the NGE. Back to top prime8 Just off the shuttle Joined: Dec 24, 2007 Posts: 24 Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:33 pm    Post subject: Yes I found it interesting as well , if Dundee is indeed who he says he is then its interesting getting a different view on things . It still doesn't change my view on how very very wrong it was what he and others at SOE/ect did to SWG and its players , and like I said before forgive but never forget . I still have doubts as to weather they have really learned the lesson yet . cheers Back to top theslider Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 22, 2008 Posts: 3 Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:05 am    Post subject: Re: Freeman's MMO canned by NC Soft Dundee wrote: theslider wrote: I have my opinions, you have yours. I don't flame you for yours, so don't flame me about mine. From my perspective, your opinion is a flame (as I am sure you intended). I can't really flame you back though, ironically because you are wrong. If I were out of the game industry, I could talk all kinds of smack. But meh... I can't think of a good come-back anyway. It's not as though you're the only person with that opinion, nor even the only person who'll keep it forever (because like you, they don't care what I or anyone says). I am glad most people don't come to regard the opinions they've formed from things they read on the internet as scripture, but if that's what works for you then who am I to judge? So judging by your response you don't want me to believe anything you say, post, blog, etc? Hell man, I didn't need a witty retort to make me think that as I'm sure more than half of us feel the same way I do. And no, my post wasn't a flame. There are very talented people who are working in the industry, and some who are not. Me saying you fall into the latter and not the former doesn't mean you're a bad person or anything like that. It means what it means: You should be working in a different industry, or if you stay in it you should at least be kept as far away as possible from making content or making decisions about content that's intended for mass audiences. Show me something different and maybe my opinion will change. Back to top Dundee Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 13, 2008 Posts: 25 Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Freeman's MMO canned by NC Soft theslider wrote: So judging by your response you don't want me to believe anything you say, post, blog, etc? Hell man, I didn't need a witty retort to make me think that as I'm sure more than half of us feel the same way I do. I wouldn't want you to decide that something I've said is unquestionably, absolutely, and eternally the pure and only truth, to the point that you wouldn't so much as entertain debate with it. Though to be honest, if you just had to do that with something, I would prefer it to be something I said rather than not... unless later I were to change my mind and you still wouldn't, because that would drive me nuts. Quote: And no, my post wasn't a flame. Well, lets see... you said: "you do alot of "deadline pushing" and "side-of-the-mouth" speak that by the time they actually catch on to your MO you've fucked something up and they get rid of you anyway. " I said from my perspective, that was a flame, and I assumed it was intentionally so. I hope you can at least appreciate how I could have misunderstood that to be an insult. Quote: There are very talented people who are working in the industry, and some who are not. Me saying you fall into the latter and not the former doesn't mean you're a bad person or anything like that. Yyyyeah... still having a hard time understanding that you are not flaming me. Quote: It means what it means: You should be working in a different industry, or if you stay in it you should at least be kept as far away as possible from making content or making decisions about content that's intended for mass audiences. Now this is just really odd. I'm certainly not ashamed of every bit of the work I did on SWG from over a year before launch, and in JtL (which remained on schedule, as did all the expansions I worked on, and for that matter all the systems I implemented, too), and sometimes the live support involved heroic efforts, too. I mean, pets had been cut from launch (which meant droids, faction npcs, droid engineers, bio-eng's, creature handlers, baby critters, and whatever else had all been cut, too), and I got them in, in three days that didn't exist according to the schedule, with a system we didn't need to localize (since you taught your pet what to respond to), and baby critters growing over time, and later, pets responding to emotes was also me - when I didn't work on the live game from shortly after launch 'til after rage came out. Quote: Show me something different and maybe my opinion will change. I'm sorry I implied that you wouldn't. It's just that you seemed so sure. But you don't even know me. You know how it is... when something is alright, we're a team and no one person can be credited with anything. It's only when things go south that suddenly we're all retroactively empowered to stop bucks. I worked on that game for six years, and you seem to be under the impression that the NGE was either the only thing I did, or was my best work. I'm tellin' ya - and this is tough for me because I am ever so humble - the quality of my work has never been an issue. It has rather been regarded as above-average by virtually everyone I have ever worked with. You can disagree with them, but you've never worked with me, whereas they have. Irony. If you read back to the beginning of this thread, what I feel has been an issue was the very thing you are specifically not accusing me of: behaving like a bad person or anything like that. 'Cause no, no, no - I am guilty of that. So... I guess I shouldn't get too riled-up over it, but having confessed to the one, I wouldn't want people to think I'm wicked and incompetent. _________________ --Jeff Freeman Back to top Fishermage Just off the shuttle Joined: Dec 31, 2007 Posts: 17 Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:41 pm    Post subject: Well, I gotta say, CH was some of the most fun I EVER had in a game. Plus, feeling bad about doing something wrong makes you not all that wicked by definition; as long as the remorse is real. I tend to think that it is. Otherwise, why bother? I'm all for change and redemption! That being said, being that you DID have a hand in something that produced some of the worst mojo in gaming history, expect the flames, Jeff. Not of Hell, but your punishment on THIS plane just might be neverending Back to top Dundee Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 13, 2008 Posts: 25 Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Fishermage wrote: expect the flames, Jeff. Oh, I definitely do. I wasn't really protesting being flamed, even, so much as pointing out how ironic "I don't flame you for yours, so don't flame me about mine." struck me. I mean - one of those opinions is "I personally think you're the biggest loser on this planet". It just struck me as funny. _________________ --Jeff Freeman Back to top wildcat Admin Cabal Joined: Dec 23, 2007 Posts: 166 Location: Huntington, WV Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:44 pm    Post subject: The biggest loser on the planet is John Smedley. How the man still has his job after clearly dumping his company down the toilet is beyond me. _________________ Wildcat84 Site Admin Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         WildcatMMO Forum Index -> Star Wars Galaxies Refuge All times are GMT + 10 Hours Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next Page 7 of 8   Jump to: Select a forum General Gaming Discussion----------------MMORPG GeneralGaming General Game Specific Forums----------------Star Wars Galaxies RefugeEVE OnlineIndie GamesWorld of WarcraftSOE Games (non SWG)Turbine GamesNCSoft GamesEA Mythic GamesConsole GamesBioware Non Gaming Discussion----------------Cat's GATMember Petitions  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group Forums ©

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