I've been reading this thread ( and the proposal thread ) over and over, for the past two days. My wife's starting on the path of the DE, so I was doing some reading ( to be informed ), and the proposal just seems to have captivated my interest.
IMO, the current DE setup has two simultaneous problems, which when combined provide deadlock on a resolution:
Without decay, a DE can basically work himself out of business, since all potential customers can (1) only have a maximum of five, (2) can pretty much ensure that their purchases last forever with no extra cash outlay, and (3) have little or no need ( or desire ) for supplemental items.
Currently, droids are little more than vanity items AFAIK. To quote an earlier poster, "I think too many of the droid offerings right now would be difficult to justify a purchase of, if they needed constant replacing/fixing/maintenence. Things like ... droids, ... while fun toys, would be all the more undesirable if they were made harder to own. "
In order solve problem 1 ( declining demand ), I think that problem 2 ( droid value ) has to be solved first. Unfortunately, that will require more than a band-aid to do properly.
In addition, decay causes additional problems from a maintenance / RP / etc. standpoint, so it would have to be crafted with care. The Droid Decay Proposal 0.3 seems to be an adequate start, but to me the changes for Droid Value would need to be known to craft an appropriate solution for Declining Droid Demand. For example, combat vs. non-combat decay might be a totally different set of issues if combat droids were marked and made differently than non-combat models.
As a non-DE ( a non-artisan, in fact ), I'm going to crawl off into a hole for a while and try to learn as much as I can about how the current system works, and how it relates to other elements within SWG ( e.g. speeders, pets, other artisan fields, etc. ). Hopefully, by the end of that process, I'll have a clearer idea on how to propose a solution for Droid Value for discussion, that would make DEs happy without unbalancing some of the other professions in SWG.
A fix for droid "decay" is a pretty easy one, all of the needed tracking information is already in the droid.
Remove droid batteries from the game, and use the same tracking system to monitor "droid status" basically. So a crafting droid wears down slower than a combat droid. You have your balance there.
When the droid hit's 0 it stops functioning, which it will already do when that battery level hits 0. Just set it up so DE's need /consent (like the old painting system) to repair the droid. Similar to what is going on with the new smuggler changes.
I would also like to see a return to DE's painting the droids, now that paint kits have a MUCH higher lifespan. Please return painting of chassis to the DE's.
If you want to make it even more of a task, add another number to monitor how many repairs the droid can have. Give it 10, 20, 50 even 100 repairs before it must be "overhauled" or replaced. DE's will be needed for the repair and possible overhaul or replacement.
First of all, I look at crafting like a custom builder person, not a multinational conglomerate. So the fact I have made a lot of money makeing droids, I dont expect to be mega rich. And with BH droids and flight computer/astromechs selling the combat droids and others is just icing on the cake.
Secondly, while I enjoy makeing custom order droids and weapons for customers and some interaction with customers, I do not feel like putting up with all the "Bob tells you: Hey I heard youre a DE, fix my droid, ill pay anything but I need you to meet me at the crashed space ship poi on dathomir, if you hurry Ill give you another 5k" I already deny repairing weapons, some say WS's have a better chance, I dont see the skill in my chart, so I see you haveing just a good a chance of repairing your own weapon as I do. I even trash repair cas, I am not going to spend all my time repairing weapons and droids.
And thirdly, if they give it to DEs, then why not Archs? And to be honest, I have about 300 loots in my house for display, and Ill be damned if I have to re"display" all that crap everytime my house "stops working." And I dont trust the Devs to pull it off, lets fix the bugs first, stop the damn patches that bring a million bugs and fix 2 that are 6 months old.
Ipock MA/MWS(12)/MDE(12) Osav Master Slacker(currently MRifleman/MCombatMedic only cause I couldnt find anything I liked with rifleman and ran out of respecs and I was forced to a double combat mastery in the CU when I did just fine with just MRifleman pre CU lol )
Shop is closed (Currently looking at new locations.)
I think that droids need to "break down" or "crap out" every now and again, and the only way to fix them is to take them to a DE. You would be a crafter/repairman profession then, but at least it would seem more Star Wars fixing all the broken droids and dealing with customers.
QFE
This is what I was going to say. It would STILL be in the DE best interest to serve as a repair shop. Using abilities rather then resources for credits. The droids should still decay to the point of no repair, as to stimulate a moving market...but I'd like to see the DEs have more then just a "vendor" purpose.
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I usually like working with the details, so I don't see much problem with droid decay. They are easier to make than pets (less time consuming I mean) which can take vitality loss in combat thus should decay faster and not be in the same category as pet decay with vitality packs. Your decay rate of 1 month seems a bit fast unless you mean 1 month of having the droid out at all times during the day. I would hate to see casual gamers get hit too much.
I don't see a reason to use anything other than vitality as the decay measurement. I would propose 1 vitality point every time you need to recharge it. Then use the repair kits like BE vit packs where you can get back full vitality but the total vitality is reduced (1 point for every 10 vitality restored). Combat droids should lose 2 vitality on every incap.
If you are talking about negative effects for low vitality, it can be simiar to pets which have a 75,50,25 vitality marker to reduce effectiveness. I'd rather see something minor below 75 like sparks, maybe just movement after 50, and then something more major below 25.
That's how I envision something like this being done with the current game mechanics and I would be for it. I'm not a DE but have droids on all my toons and I don't see the decay factor for something like that being too bad. Even the ones I have for storage comparments or crafting. The harvesting droid don't tend to use unless it did that a bit faster....
How about before you talk about Droid Decay, you talk about making droids worth a damn to have in the first place? I still get a kick out of the old Droid's Rebuilt publish that introduced a droid that could use Stimpacks, only to spit on the Droid Engineer profession by limiting them to Stimpack As. Or the incomparable combat droid, which was marginally useful before the CU, but isn't worth the time or effort now. Pre-nerf heavy armored probots were more effective than anything the DE profession has made since then. Then you slap again with droid stims that can only be used every 60 seconds to defend droids with pathetic damage resistance and wonder why their abilities are underutilized in combat?
This on top of the fact that droids are among the most complicated craftable assemblies in the game, with more subcomponents and variations possible than architect, shipwright, chef, armorsmith and weaponsmith COMBINED.
Astromechs, barkers and entertainer droids are about the only ones with any genuine use, and God help the day astromechs and flight computers start taking a beating in space... Death up there is costly enough as it is.
Until the Devs get over this aversion they have to accessory pets/troopers/droids being able to substantially enhance player independence/performance, the idea of introducing long term decay of droids is just flinging poo at the latrine.
Captain Janu HullCFA-7 In the event of an emergency, this pilot's ego may be used as a floatation device.
Astromechs, barkers and entertainer droids are about the only ones with any genuine use
I'm really afraid that these (entertainer droids) are going to become worthless as well in the near future unfortunately. If you go read in the entertainer forum about the plans for their revamp, one of the things they are doing is giving them "particle effects" in their skill trees. To me that sounds an awful lot like a replacement for what the entertainer modules do now.
But I agree. The whole talk of worrying about decay is premature. First they need to fix the bugs to get us from "broken" to "useless", then they have to revisit the droid modules to get us from "useless" to "useful", only THEN does it make sense to worry about decay.
ArthurDent - former Bio Engineer, Tailor, and Droid Engineer Account cancelled 7/8/05 due to game breaking bugs in these professions that have been neglected for FAR too long. Last day July 27 2005 custom tailoring and droid orders welcome. "making Evil products since July 2003" Achiever: 80%, Explorer: 60%, Socializer: 46%, Killa 13%
Astromechs, barkers and entertainer droids are about the only ones with any genuine use
I'm really afraid that these (entertainer droids) are going to become worthless as well in the near future unfortunately. If you go read in the entertainer forum about the plans for their revamp, one of the things they are doing is giving them "particle effects" in their skill trees. To me that sounds an awful lot like a replacement for what the entertainer modules do now.
But I agree. The whole talk of worrying about decay is premature. First they need to fix the bugs to get us from "broken" to "useless", then they have to revisit the droid modules to get us from "useless" to "useful", only THEN does it make sense to worry about decay.
Elite entertainer already have a whole branch full of particle effects, so no big deal... with an revamp of entertainer maybe the droids will have a real use then...
from an economic perspective, something like this seems completely necessary if droid engineers are going to be able to remain in business. from a continuity perspective, it makes less sense. anakin built 3P0 and R2 was around... well, forever. they were shot, disassembled, soaked, frozen, smacked, dropped, etc., and still functioned. what they needed was REPAIR.
if i were free to choose the system, i would make droids more interchangeable even after creation. give DEs the ability to swap modules, components, etc., and then make this the basis of droid repair. when severaly damaged in combat or simply used for a long time (a certian number of battery charges), a droid will experience failure in such-and-such a part, and that part will need to be replaced. take it to the DE, who analyzes/diagnoses the droid, crafts a replacement part, and pops it into the new droid. fun and interactive, ne? it also creates business when better resources allow for better parts.
Jenden wrote: Ok, I want to get some input from non DE's on droid decay. Just some background info for those that don't know, currently droids do not decay, wear out, or get old in any way. There are still perfectly good droids from launch floating around. This is causing some stagnation in the droid market, and is currently the number one issue to the DE community. Please post your feedback to droid decay in general and/or the specific droid decay proposal in this thread.
Am I breaking the rules by butting in as a DE? I play as a non-DE, too, so I guess that should count. In both my DE and non-DE characters, I feel that droid decay should not come to having to physically find a DE and have them repair it. The system I would like to see would take the repair kits we already have, and use them towards repairing their functionality. Droids would get wear (like wounds) over time which also limits their movement speed and in some cases the functionality of their stat bonuses. To repair these wounds, reconstruction kits USABLE BY ANYONE can be used to repair the droids. That way, we have a renewable income other than seekers. Make them experimentable and as complex as they are now to make to have some variation in the market, and you'll be good to go.
I do agree, though, before we ask that droids become any more of a pain to use, we need more and better functions.
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