New Play-Test Server Survey Results

[Katsa]

We didn't bend to the will of any group, whether they be vocal, non-vocal, majority, or minority.

We look at all suggestions, consider the impact of the changes on things from a comprehensive level, and then make decisions as a team.

We will please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time.

8% of the registered accounts visit the forums. Isn't that the statistic that the decision to do an in game vote was based off? Am I missing where the rest of the suggestions came from?

Perhaps and in game vote on the new server (when launched) to get a more accurate representation for the desired/required changes would offer a more balanced result?

Personally, I can live without and ADK, and certainly without multiples, but I can also see the case for allowing at least one locked per account, preferably able to be equipped by either character. Admittedly facilitating this could be tricky.

I can't remember when these were implemented into Live, however I assume it was pre 14.1 otherwise they never would have been introduced on Basilisk, so removing them entirely (or at least potentially at this stage) seems a strange way to go.

[SLiFeR]

8% of the registered accounts visit the forums. Isn't that the statistic that the decision to do an in game vote was based off? Am I missing where the rest of the suggestions came from?

The forum poll gauged interest, got traction for a discussion, then the final decision making poll was done in game? What's the problem?

Perhaps and in game vote on the new server (when launched) to get a more accurate representation for the desired/required changes would offer a more balanced result?

Let's see how how many are playing when it's up, that should speak for itself.

Personally, I can live without and ADK, and certainly without multiples, but I can also see the case for allowing at least one locked per account, preferably able to be equipped by either character. Admittedly facilitating this could be tricky.

It's been discussed everywhere already, but ADKs were added as a '365 day subscription' carrot back in the day, and at the tail end of Pre-CU - once the game was pretty much over. For the majority of the game we didn't have them. SWGEmu is f2p so there's no need for 'carrots' that ruin the economy and balance of the game. (Breaking Jedi DPS with ADK PSGs, Legendary/Exceptional weapons being stuck on the server forever, keeping the same armor/weapons forever that hurts crafters.)

I can't remember when these were implemented into Live, however I assume it was pre 14.1 otherwise they never would have been introduced on Basilisk, so removing them entirely (or at least potentially at this stage) seems a strange way to go.

They did it for testing purposes. Pretty much it.

Overall, I'm not sure what your point is. You can tell by the Q & A thread, Discord, Youtube & Reddit comments, many people are stoked for this. That can only be beneficial to the project.

[Katsa]

The forum poll gauged interest, got traction for a discussion, then the final decision making poll was done in game? What's the problem?

The in game poll hardly reflects the changes that were announced after the results of the poll and the release of the answers to the Q&A.
Again, I'm failing to see where any suggestions from the majority of players came from other than simply the vocal minority on forums and an even smaller group outside of the forums such as discord.
My point relates to the fact people voted without being aware of additional changes that would be made to a fresh/new server.
The changes clearly aren't 14.1 compliant, otherwise surely they never would have been introduced into Basilisk in the first place?

Let's see how how many are playing when it's up, that should speak for itself.

I'd have thought waiting to see how many people continue to play on the new server after 6 months, a year, 2 years etc would be a better gauge of the success, rather than the influx of new and returning players.
I also fail to see the downside to asking ALL the player base what changes they would like to see through an in game vote on the new server, then taking a suitable amount of time to digest that data before implementing them.
At least that way everyone's opinion is taken into consideration, and not just that of those who kick and scream for changes to be made.
People who are content with how things are simply don't create thread after thread asking for things to be changed, hence the vocal minority appear to be getting their own way as a result of said kicking and screaming.

It's been discussed everywhere already, but ADKs were added as a '365 day subscription' carrot back in the day, and at the tail end of Pre-CU - once the game was pretty much over. For the majority of the game we didn't have them. SWGEmu is f2p so there's no need for 'carrots' that ruin the economy and balance of the game. (Breaking Jedi DPS with ADK PSGs, Legendary/Exceptional weapons being stuck on the server forever, keeping the same armor/weapons forever that hurts crafters.)

I'm curious as to what evidence you have to support such a claim as to the reasoning behind SOE introducing ADKs back in the day, or what relevance it has especially given if they were introduced pre 14.1.
If the end goal is meant to be 14.1 surely they should be part of 1.0 for good or bad.
Breaking Jedi DPS seems to be a big issue for a lot of people, but I know for damn sure that Jedi being massively overpowered was and will be a big issue for a whole lot more.
The impact it has on crafters would be minimal if it's one ADK per account, any suggestion that it would cripple the economy is simply not true. It simply offers people the chance to protect their investment in both time grinding credits, and acquiring the component parts to create the items in the first place or to gain some sort of lasting defense vs lightsaber damage.
As for ruining the balance of the game I'm not sure what game you played back in the Live days, or any time since then. SWG has never been balanced, and few if any MMORPGs ever are. If for no other reason, people will always find the elite meta that breaks the balance.
Removing ADKs is certainly not going to restore that, but perhaps reducing the possible LS resist cap for PSGs would better serve that goal.

They did it for testing purposes. Pretty much it.

Overall, I'm not sure what your point is. You can tell by the Q & A thread, Discord, Youtube & Reddit comments, many people are stoked for this. That can only be beneficial to this project.

Well I'm not the only one who has said that having the results of the Q & A available prior to the in game vote might have impacted how I voted. I'm not suggesting that people aren't excited to see where things go with a new server (I'm very much looking forward to it!), I'm simply stating that it would have been a better idea to allow people to make a more informed decision. Please tell me how that would have hurt the project?

When less than 10% of the overall registered player base visit the forums, one would be safe to assume an even smaller percentage comment on posts relating to things like ADKs, SL buff range, FRS systems and all the other "hot topics" that get discussed on the forums, let alone on Discord, Reddit an Youtube.
The in game vote was a great way to get a broader spectrum from which the devs can take the data and decide where to go with it, so why not try and find a way to see what changes the community as a whole would like to see made, and do more in game votes (preferably when there's a larger player base than we currently see)?

[SLiFeR]

Here we go again.

The in game poll hardly reflects the changes that were announced after the results of the poll and the release of the answers to the Q&A. Again, I'm failing to see where any suggestions from the majority of players came from other than simply the vocal minority on forums and an even smaller group outside of the forums such as discord. My point relates to the fact people voted without being aware of additional changes that would be made to a fresh/new server.
The changes clearly aren't 14.1 compliant, otherwise surely they never would have been introduced into Basilisk in the first place?

14.1 compliant. How many 14.1 servers are out there besides Basilisk? Oh, zero - unpopular. I guess that's such a bad thing staff listened to feedback on the forums. Where else do you want ideas posted????? What's the purpose of a forum then if not for discussions?

I'd have thought waiting to see how many people continue to play on the new server after 6 months, a year, 2 years etc would be a better gauge of the success, rather than the influx of new and returning players.
I also fail to see the downside to asking ALL the player base what changes they would like to see through an in game vote on the new server, then taking a suitable amount of time to digest that data before implementing them. At least that way everyone's opinion is taken into consideration, and not just that of those who kick and scream for changes to be made. People who are content with how things are simply don't create thread after thread asking for things to be changed, hence the vocal minority appear to be getting their own way as a result of said kicking and screaming.

It seems you are the only one kicking and screaming over nothing, not us. Vocal Minority? Are you sure you aren't in the minority? Maybe you could have added your input in the thread with the others, I looked at your post history, you are active on the forums. Maybe you should listen to your own advice and wait and see, instead of making something out of nothing. Otherwise, I see a lot of happy people around here.

I'm curious as to what evidence you have to support such a claim as to the reasoning behind SOE introducing ADKs back in the day, or what relevance it has especially given if they were introduced pre 14.1. If the end goal is meant to be 14.1 surely they should be part of 1.0 for good or bad. Breaking Jedi DPS seems to be a big issue for a lot of people, but I know for damn sure that Jedi being massively overpowered was and will be a big issue for a whole lot more.
The impact it has on crafters would be minimal if it's one ADK per account, any suggestion that it would cripple the economy is simply not true. It simply offers people the chance to protect their investment in both time grinding credits, and acquiring the component parts to create the items in the first place or to gain some sort of lasting defense vs lightsaber damage.
As for ruining the balance of the game I'm not sure what game you played back in the Live days, or any time since then. SWG has never been balanced, and few if any MMORPGs ever are. If for no other reason, people will always find the elite meta that breaks the balance. Removing ADKs is certainly not going to restore that, but perhaps reducing the possible LS resist cap for PSGs would better serve that goal.

So you want to modify LS resist on PSGs (something PSGs always had on live) but you want ADKs, which barely existed on live. Got it.

Well I'm not the only one who has said that having the results of the Q & A available prior to the in game vote might have impacted how I voted. I'm not suggesting that people aren't excited to see where things go with a new server (I'm very much looking forward to it!), I'm simply stating that it would have been a better idea to allow people to make a more informed decision. Please tell me how that would have hurt the project?

When less than 10% of the overall registered player base visit the forums, one would be safe to assume an even smaller percentage comment on posts relating to things like ADKs, SL buff range, FRS systems and all the other "hot topics" that get discussed on the forums, let alone on Discord, Reddit an Youtube. The in game vote was a great way to get a broader spectrum from which the devs can take the data and decide where to go with it, so why not try and find a way to see what the community as a whole would like to see made, and do more in game votes (preferably when there's a larger player base than we currently see)?

Then stay on Basilisk for '14.1'? They are giving everyone a choice where to play. There's no need to act like you are forced to do anything. Staff joined the discussion with us, and made the best decisions they could. You're active on the forums, why are you complaining a discussion happened on the forums, and how it would affect your vote? It's contradictory. Because you didn't participate? Seems like you need to sort that out on your end. Nitpicking at this point is just absurd.

[Syphilis]

You should have given the additional server details that you listed on the main page BEFORE the survey. it wouldve changed the results im sure.

Bingo!

As they have mentioned though it is a fluid server that can see changes made to help it survive. I predict additional slots over two and two instances will be the first change as that really crushes the new server.

I was all about a new server and voted to play exclusively on it till the server details were made.

Now I will most likely stay active on Bas and just tinker with the new server....but who knows.

[SLiFeR]

Bingo!

As they have mentioned though it is a fluid server that can see changes made to help it survive. I predict additional slots over two and two instances will be the first change as that really crushes the new server.

I was all about a new server and voted to play exclusively on it till the server details were made.

Now I will most likely stay active on Bas and just tinker with the new server....but who knows.

What changes do you have an issue with, exactly? You mention character slots and toons online in your post. Is that it? You know for 1.0 this was already confirmed basically, correct? Nobody had 10 toons in 2004, very few had more than 1 account for 2 online at once.

Staff had an open discussion with us about suggestions. You don't need 1 of everything. That's the point of having a community driven economy.

As I said in another post, Basilisk has been up for far too long, you're conditioned to think that's how the game should be. Other servers have been limiting this for a while and everything is fine.

[Katsa]

Here we go again.



14.1 compliant. How many 14.1 servers are out there besides Basilisk? Oh, zero - unpopular. I guess that's such a bad thing staff listened to feedback on the forums. Where else do you want ideas posted????? What's the purpose of a forum then if not for discussions?

How many other servers have 14.1 as their mission statement besides Basilisk? Oh, zero. I understand that the forum is the ideal place for discussion to take place. This does not change the fact that only a small percentage of the player base visit the forum, and that an even smaller percentage have posted wanting to see certain changes be made.

Regardless, none of that changes the fact that the in game vote may have yielded a different result had people known the changes that would be associated with the new server. Nor does it mean that there isn't room for further discussion on what changes could or should be made. When the new server launches a simple poll "Would you like to see X changed?" would give a definitive answer.

Assuming you, or anyone else speaks for the majority is arrogant.

It seems you are the only one kicking and screaming over nothing, not us. Vocal Minority? Are you sure you aren't in the minority? Maybe you could have added your input in the thread with the others, I looked at your post history, you are active on the forums. Maybe you should listen to your own advice and wait and see, instead of making something out of nothing. Otherwise, I see a lot of happy people around here.

I've seen you banging the same drum for quite some time now, I rarely offer an opinion on things like character limit, ADKs, SL Buff range etc etc because 1) the same arguments have been made time and time again on both sides, and 2) because up until the poll results were in, and the announcement of the changes that will follow with the new server the devs have NEVER said that these changes would be implemented.

Assuming that all the happy people we are seeing are happy as a result of these changes is somewhat bizarre. I would argue that most are happy at the idea of having a crack on a fresh server first and foremost. I would also argue that having said crack was the principle reason why people voted for a new server, and had little if anything to do with potential changes that were announced AFTER the voting took place.

So you want to modify LS resist on PSGs (something PSGs always had on live) but you want ADKs, which barely existed on live. Got it.

What I would like to see is a better balance overall. You've completely ignored the legitimate concerns that the changes will only result in Jedi becoming overpowered as they were in the live days. At least back then Jedi were somewhat rare, and required an awful lot of time to grind to a complete template.
On the new server I'm pretty sure we'll see a much larger Jedi population than at any point in pre cu live days, and in a much shorter period of time. Which will only exacerbate the imbalance.

Then stay on Basilisk for '14.1'? They are giving everyone a choice where to play. There's no need to act like you are forced to do anything. Staff joined the discussion with us, and made the best decisions they could. You're active on the forums, why are you complaining a discussion happened on the forums, and how it would affect your vote? It's contradictory. Because you didn't participate? Seems like you need to sort that out on your end. Nitpicking at this point is just absurd.

I'm not acting like I am being forced into anything. The fact remains that the voting metric cannot be used to accurately gauge what changes the majority of the player base would like to see happen on a new server. It simply shows that the majority who voted would like to see a new server. To suggest otherwise is both arrogant and absurd.



You seem to be taking all of this discussion far to personally, just because someone doesn't see eye to eye with you, doesn't mean you can't engage with them rationally and respectfully.

[SLiFeR]

How many other servers have 14.1 as their mission statement besides Basilisk? Oh, zero. I understand that the forum is the ideal place for discussion to take place. This does not change the fact that only a small percentage of the player base visit the forum, and that an even smaller percentage have posted wanting to see certain changes be made.

Regardless, none of that changes the fact that the in game vote may have yielded a different result had people known the changes that would be associated with the new server. Nor does it mean that there isn't room for further discussion on what changes could or should be made. When the new server launches a simple poll "Would you like to see X changed?" would give a definitive answer.

Assuming you, or anyone else speaks for the majority is arrogant.

Apparently you are not aware. You could have posted your opinions in this thread, like everyone else: https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241977

Instead, you were too busy posting in the Basilisk trade forums. Huh, I wonder what the motives are here?

I've seen you banging the same drum for quite some time now, I rarely offer an opinion on things like character limit, ADKs, SL Buff range etc etc because 1) the same arguments have been made time and time again on both sides, and 2) because up until the poll results were in, and the announcement of the changes that will follow with the new server the devs have NEVER said that these changes would be implemented.

Assuming that all the happy people we are seeing are happy as a result of these changes is somewhat bizarre. I would argue that most are happy at the idea of having a crack on a fresh server first and foremost. I would also argue that having said crack was the principle reason why people voted for a new server, and had little if anything to do with potential changes that were announced AFTER the voting took place.

Yeah, you got me - I've been 'banging the same drum' for what, 2 weeks since I got back here? And you have been here less than 2 years? You can check my join date, how can you make a false claim like that? LOL.

Again, you seem very heavily invested in Basilisk. I think we know what's going on here and why you don't want to see a new server with better changes that reflect a true pre-cu experience we had in 2004.

What I would like to see is a better balance overall. You've completely ignored the legitimate concerns that the changes will only result in Jedi becoming overpowered as they were in the live days. At least back then Jedi were somewhat rare, and required an awful lot of time to grind to a complete template.
On the new server I'm pretty sure we'll see a much larger Jedi population than at any point in pre cu live days, and in a much shorter period of time. Which will only exacerbate the imbalance.

Is the Jedi who wronged you in the room with us right now?



So you want a server like Basilisk where Jedi suck, after months of time investment - because of 10 years of resources, ADKs, 70% LS psgs, and broken weapons is more fun for you? What's your definition of overpowered? Are these things not overpowered? Only overpowered if they have a glowbat? Cool, stay on Basilisk then. That's not how Pre-CU was. You can look up many videos where Jedi were prevalent. Here's one:



Looks like a lot of Jedi. Not sure what to tell you. Ever heard of a stacker? Doesn't seem overpowered to me.

I'm not acting like I am being forced into anything. The fact remains that the voting metric cannot be used to accurately gauge what changes the majority of the player base would like to see happen on a new server. It simply shows that the majority who voted would like to see a new server. To suggest otherwise is both arrogant and absurd.

You seem to be taking all of this discussion far to personally, just because someone doesn't see eye to eye with you, doesn't mean you can't engage with them rationally and respectfully.

Nothing's personal - it's a game. As I pointed out, you seem very attached to Basilisk based on your post history. I don't think you've been around here long enough to fully understand the bigger picture. Next time there's an important thread with 10k+ views, voice your input. Don't start throwing insults because you didn't get your way.

Respect the Staff decision, and make your own decision now that they presented to you.

1. Play the new server
2. Play Basilisk
3. Play both servers
4. Don't play at all

Simple as that.

[Katsa]

Apparently you are not aware. You could have posted your opinions in this thread, like everyone else: https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241977

Instead, you were too busy posting in the Basilisk trade forums. Huh, I wonder what the motives are here?





Yeah, you got me - I've been 'banging the same drum' for what, 2 weeks since I got back here? And you have been here less than 2 years? You can check my join date, how can you make a false claim like that? LOL.

Again, you seem very heavily invested in Basilisk. I think we know what's going on here and why you don't want to see a new server with better changes that reflect a true pre-cu experience we had in 2004.



Is the Jedi who wronged you in the room with us right now?



So you want a server like Basilisk where Jedi suck, after months of time investment - because of 10 years of resources, ADKs, 70% LS psgs, and broken weapons is more fun for you? What's your definition of overpowered? Are these things not overpowered? Only overpowered if they have a glowbat? Cool, stay on Basilisk then. That's not how Pre-CU was. You can look up many videos where Jedi were prevalent. Here's one:



Looks like a lot of Jedi. Not sure what to tell you. Ever heard of a stacker? Doesn't seem overpowered to me.





Nothing's personal - it's a game. As I pointed out, you seem very attached to Basilisk based on your post history. I don't think you've been around here long enough to fully understand the bigger picture. Next time there's an important thread with 10k+ views, voice your input. Don't start throwing insults because you didn't get your way.

Respect the Staff decision, and make your own decision now that they presented to you.

1. Play the new server
2. Play Basilisk
3. Play both servers
4. Don't play at all

Simple as that.

The 1 v 1 battle does nothing to disprove the imbalance in the game. The pikeman is using a legendary weapon for a start, many of the comments suggest the Jedi is using a weak template, and there's no way of knowing if an ADK'd PSG is being used (not to mention an ADK' LS as plenty of Jedi will have used theirs for a capped/near cap LS)

The group Jedi battle shows a large number of Jedi, but doesn't reflect what percentage of the server population that represents. I've never stated that there were hardly any Jedi, simply that they were less common back then. Make it easier and quicker to unlock a Padawan now, and even easier to build one to a full template thanks to a decade of people learning how to level way faster than ever before and they will be more prevalent than ever.

If you need to have a quite specific build to 1 v 1 a Jedi, such as a melee stacker build, this then limits any PVE content greatly, and is therefore not well balanced. Give them a better source of protection vs LS allows for a better range of options.

I'm not bitter about Jedi, I had my own Jedi Knight on live. I just don't see the argument that ADK's alone made Jedi useless.

Am I invested in Basilisk? Yes, I play on here regularly and I still enjoy it. I still voted for a new server, but that I would probably invest time into both. Please stop making blanket assumptions and generalizations about me based on little or no evidence. The level of condescension is utterly toxic.

A simply search of your recent posts show just how much you keep going over the same points over and over. A search of mine will show me mostly focusing on the server I currently play on, and occasionally offering my opinion on new changes that have been announced. Something that I'm starting to regret given the toxicity of your responses. Yet somehow I'm the one resorting to insults?

/facepalm