Public Engine3 without time restrictions

[duffstone]

I wish a fraction of the people who run and code for private servers contributed to the core project until it got to 1.0. It would be better for everyone in the long run.

not everyone who can manage to get the VM working is capable of contributing anything worthwhile. I can make subtle changes to core3 to function differently, I can add new objects that aren't 14.1 canon, and when I'm motivated I can MOD like the wind... but a C programmer I am not. If non-developers get shut out of the core, I will miss it dearly. But I would also give it up readily to see the project get to v1.0 before this decade is up.

-Duff

[Esquire1980]

As a new Core 3 based server owner, I see nothing except good out of this decision. Thank you TA and EMU staff. We haven't advertised as yet and probably will not for a few months yet. But, our forums and main server are up and running at this time and our core group is in playing and testing.

I, and a few others, even tho we are on our server still donate, report, and maintain toons over here, etc over here to still continue to do our part to get 1.0 happening a little faster and further the goal. It's on my forums for players to contribute with donations and testing over here as well. It's also on my forums that if Bas bans a player from forums or game, they will be banned on our server also. We set up our server with the mindset of working with SWGEMU and not against EMU. This is not a competition.

I see no problem with continuing the open source conditions for future code. Even tho we are implementing tre files that have CU/NGE item(s), and even some new ones (we have a graphics guy), the legal situation with ALL of these servers is free/non profit or LA (the mouse) can and probably will get involved with the offender and at that point, will most probably include ALL the other servers as well. It's nothing more than a name and address change to a header for a Cease and Desist to the offender and to everyone else that isn't offending. Owning a copyright to a single line of code, on a completed project that CAN NOT accept nor make profits, the original work is clearly stated open source, and has an IP that is still in question is like owning nothing. The end result on a financial statement is still 0. The ONLY addition I can see is bragging rights and that simply does not help the small, CD owning, SWG community at all, nor does it help get the main project out of alpha.

TA and SWGEMU staff, you have my and our team's full support. Thank you for your consideration and if there is anything you need from us, feel free to just ask. And thank you, again.

SWGCHOICE.com

[jthepunisher]

Engine3 is being developed as part of this project and is being supported with donor money. However, the engine is not, and never has been, open source. I find it laughable that you expect others to open ALL their code (as you say here "...and make all their stuff available") when you have never fully opened yours. The 2.5 hour time limit has been gone on most of your major competitors' servers for quite some time, so you really aren't giving up anything.

Will the engine finally be open source? Will the engine be fully unlocked and open source upon the release of the 1.0 version of the SWGEmu? Do you intend to license the engine at a cost to SWG private severs or other MMOs or will it be provided at no cost? How can you demand every other project be ALL open source when you won't do the same? If you want "to ensure that everything is free and available to everyone" why not start with the engine that you are developing with the help of the community and their donations?

No matter what you do, most of the people who are developing on other servers have no interest in sharing their code here because they don't trust you to release a fully functioning, open source, SWG package free of charge and without restrictions to everyone that wants to run a server. All of you fanboys that think this is good for the community should demand that this project also play by these rules.

[TheAnswer]

Engine3 is being developed as part of this project and is being supported with donor money. However, the engine is not, and never has been, open source. I find it laughable that you expect others to open ALL their code (as you say here "...and make all their stuff available") when you have never fully opened yours. The 2.5 hour time limit has been gone on most of your major competitors' servers for quite some time, so you really aren't giving up anything.

Will the engine finally be open source? Will the engine be fully unlocked and open source upon the release of the 1.0 version of the SWGEmu? Do you intend to license the engine at a cost to SWG private severs or other MMOs or will it be provided at no cost? How can you demand every other project be ALL open source when you won't do the same? If you want "to ensure that everything is free and available to everyone" why not start with the engine that you are developing with the help of the community and their donations?

No matter what you do, most of the people who are developing on other servers have no interest in sharing their code here because they don't trust you to release a fully functioning, open source, SWG package free of charge and without restrictions to everyone that wants to run a server. All of you fanboys that think this is good for the community should demand that this project also play by these rules.

The engine was not developed with donors money, nothing was developed with donors money, the money went into the running of the servers.

The engine in particular was started by Oru before emu even existed and has since been evolved and incorporated into other commercial software, he/SWGEmu hold full copyright of it. Nobody besides him and me wrote that code.

The 2.5 hour time limit has been gone on most of your major competitors' servers for quite some time, so you really aren't giving up anything.

Except we are not competitors, we always had a strict 14.1 rule and wont going to break it, implement whatever you want to your servers be it 14.1 or not.
We want people to be able to use our code without the need of buying "hacked" engine3 from third parties and then blaming our code on their problems.

..open ALL their code..

You are using ALL of our code that people have been developing for more than 10 years.

Whether you like it or not, to continue using updated Core3 code you will need to comply with AGPL, instead of trying to profit from it.

[Qana]

Thumbs up, thank you for this decision!

[Aso]

I'm very happy to see this change, but at the same time I'm cautiously optimistic. I have the same concerns as others have mentioned regarding custom Jedi systems.

Reckoning's custom lua scripts are 100% separate from Core3 and located in a separate directory. This was done to prevent merge conflicts with SWGEmu. Essentially, if the scripts are there, Core3 loads them, if not, Core3 goes about its business. These lua scripts are not modifications of Core3 source code nor are they required by Core 3 to run. So from reading the AGPL license, they look to be exempt. Grant it, I'm no lawyer. This is just the way the license reads, along with info I've found online regarding AGPL. I'm hoping for further clarification if this is not the case.

I have no problems integrating our NGE content into Core3 for others to use so it becomes part of the "source", but my main goal is to protect the mystery of our Jedi system.

[TheAnswer]

I'm very happy to see this change, but at the same time I'm cautiously optimistic. I have the same concerns as others have mentioned regarding custom Jedi systems.

Reckoning's custom lua scripts are 100% separate from Core3 and located in a separate directory. This was done to prevent merge conflicts with SWGEmu. Essentially, if the scripts are there, Core3 loads them, if not, Core3 goes about its business. These lua scripts are not modifications of Core3 source code nor are they required by Core 3 to run. So from reading the AGPL license, they look to be exempt. Grant it, I'm no lawyer. This is just the way the license reads, along with info I've found online regarding AGPL. I'm hoping for further clarification if this is not the case.

I have no problems integrating our NGE content into Core3 for others to use so it becomes part of the "source", but my main goal is to protect the mystery of our Jedi system.

We are working on separating the scripts/data from the main core3 project for them to be under a different license that would allow servers to have their own custom "hidden" content.

[Aso]

We are working on separating the scripts/data from the main core3 project for them to be under a different license that would allow servers to have their own custom "hidden" content.

Thanks for clarifying. I'm working on getting a public repository up and knowing some of the details ahead of time certainly helps.

[travvy13]

I am all for sharing code, this will further push for a unified SWGEmu community who wants 14.1/1.0 and are not more concerned with their personal desires such as jedi unlock. Dont get me wrong i want jedi, jtl, and the whole nine yards but this community has fragmented off to too many smaller communities because some people dont want to help on objects that need to be implemented first, or because their main concerns might be the desire to wave a glow stick over fixing things like DE and such. Without this code that has been developed for us you wouldn't be able to wield that glow stick regardless so why not just help us by doing your part! [this doesnt apply to all]

All im saying is the sooner we put our heads together to achieve a greater objective, once it has been reached, if you wish to go about your business then do so... but in the end we still have the finished product... that seems like a better win win for all of us then 6 small communities developing what they see fit..


regardless /cheer /clap to our QA/DEV/Staff who are doing a great job on achieving this great milestone.

[Sharp2255]

not everyone who can manage to get the VM working is capable of contributing anything worthwhile. I can make subtle changes to core3 to function differently, I can add new objects that aren't 14.1 canon, and when I'm motivated I can MOD like the wind... but a C programmer I am not. If non-developers get shut out of the core, I will miss it dearly. But I would also give it up readily to see the project get to v1.0 before this decade is up.

-Duff

Not really saying anyone but if you can manage to run Core 3 and add features and functionality to your server; why not contribute to the core project to make your server better in the long run.

[Esquire]

I would take this to believe that if you use SWGEMU future development, such as adds to Test Center (JTL, village, etc), that would revert your license on past downloads as well. I would imagine that the "grandfather" exception to the new licensing would preclude any further downloads, if one wanted to keep their code additions "secret" and not comply with the AGPL change.

Thinking correctly? (And I still have no problems with this)

[TheAnswer]

I would take this to believe that if you use SWGEMU future development, such as adds to Test Center (JTL, village, etc), that would revert your license on past downloads as well. I would imagine that the "grandfather" exception to the new licensing would preclude any further downloads, if one wanted to keep their code additions "secret" and not comply with the AGPL change.

Thinking correctly? (And I still have no problems with this)

Yes, any piece of code that is added after the license change is under AGPL and so if you copy it you need to comply with AGPL.

[Wodaz Freecrest]

I think this is great for everyone involved with some aspect of this project. Seeing news like this shows great promise that the end goal is in sight and we all can finally get our game back. Thanks to everyone throughout the years that has made this all possible.

[Livy2K]

Not really saying anyone but if you can manage to run Core 3 and add features and functionality to your server; why not contribute to the core project to make your server better in the long run.

Because some people are literally just messing around not intending for any added/changed to be used in an actual play server.

For instance - lets say your looking at bug xyz on mantis, you *think* you can solve it so you make modifications then boot up your instance to see - should that require being posted as open source when it really isnt adding anything other than spaghetti as you work towards making a proper submission to be reviewed.

[dannienuc]

Because some people are literally just messing around not intending for any added/changed to be used in an actual play server.

For instance - lets say your looking at bug xyz on mantis, you *think* you can solve it so you make modifications then boot up your instance to see - should that require being posted as open source when it really isnt adding anything other than spaghetti as you work towards making a proper submission to be reviewed.

I'm pretty sure that if it's an individual working on a 'personal' copy of the code with no distribution, than you would be under no obligation to publish source code. GPL/ AGPL is intended to protect published open source work, not personal projects. If, using the given scenario, the individual in question decides that his bug fix is so great that he wants to push it out as his own public play server, at that point it would fall under the provisions of the license. Devs/ CS, if I'm wrong please let me know. Additionally, if this supposed individual was just a really great guy, he ought to get in touch with the devs, as he may be able to make a contribution to the project with what he/she has done.