The question is, what tools are players going to get to remove unwanted citizens from their cities? I amnot concerned with people running through, /cityban and zoning rights work fine for that. My concern is for citizens who are members of the city who are no longer welcome. The mayor needs a way to get rid of them.
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The question is, what tools are players going to get to remove unwanted citizens from their cities? I amnot concerned with people running through, /cityban and zoning rights work fine for that. My concern is for citizens who are members of the city who are no longer welcome. The mayor needs a way to get rid of them.
Thats a 2edged arguement. The reason why that is a bad idea is from the hostile takover aspect. Lets say I _really_ wantd a town in tattooine and its already at cap. I find a fledgeling town that is an outpost status. I talk to the mayor who is struggling to keep his town going and is paying all the maintenance out of his own pockets. The mass exodus from CU and normal attrition isnt helping him. He starts to look for people to move in. I socially engineer my way into his favor and move into town. Offer to move more friends and socially engineer myself into the city milita. The day before the next city cycle I move my entire 80 character guild into town. Suddenly the city is now huge and I run for mayor. My town elects me. Up until now this is all doable in the exising system, ive taken over mayor of the town. By giving the power of /cityban acting like an eviction you empower me to not only become mayor but rub salt in everyones wounds by keeping them out of town and even denying them access to their own homes and belongings.
Omosack Master Weaponsmith Master Shipwright Better Homes and Guns - in the Chilastra Galaxy
- It's time the devs end the bitter fighting by giving the community a Non Jedi server. We have a few servers with TINY populations that could be changed to this ruleset. I support this idea because it punishes noone. - You can support it too. Click Here!
TH - Whats the point of a militia member when all we really can do is just city ban. There should be something that allows them to help defend the city, especially when you drop a base and turrets only to have every opposite faction member just come in as a Combatant to blow up turrets and bases. There has to be something to implement to help this situation that happens every day.
Nothing truly gets more annoying than dropping turrets to help defend your base, only to watch a few combatant Jedi come in and use Avoid Incap to tank turrets while others with cybernetics fire away at the turrets from 80m. Yes we BH's can take the jedi's mission, but it still doesnt help with the others who are free to blow up the bases. Perhaps thats another situation all on its own, but shouldnt Avoid Incap be where you cant attack back while on it?
But back to the Militia members, we definately need something to actually help protect our city.
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This thread reminds me of something I read a while back (on a team letter I think) regarding some idea in the form of a possible future publish/expansion that was to introduce the shady, criminal side of SWG. With the introduction of a real way to role play a bad character the /citywarn could begin to take on a new meaning.
In a post above the idea of having a city faction is a perfect way of monitoring and enforcing some kind of rule of law in each city. Of course the obvious considerations have to be made to restrict real griefing (as TH has already done here) but allowing a city to take on a political role allows some real possibility:
Factional cities where opposing factions would be attacked on STOPPING in the city.
The development of politics between cities to encourage trade, research etc...
Allow a mechanism to regain faction standing for cities (trading, offer treaties, or even city orientated NPC quest givers)
Introduce community responsibility. ie. A player gets a citywarn, loses 1000 FP to that city. The population of his home city loose say 5 FP. Everyone effected is notified and can act accordingly (warn him by a threat of eviction or reward him). This of course could increase the RP value of SWG.
TH - Whats the point of a militia member when all we really can do is just city ban. There should be something that allows them to help defend the city, especially when you drop a base and turrets only to have every opposite faction member just come in as a Combatant to blow up turrets and bases. There has to be something to implement to help this situation that happens every day.
Nothing truly gets more annoying than dropping turrets to help defend your base, only to watch a few combatant Jedi come in and use Avoid Incap to tank turrets while others with cybernetics fire away at the turrets from 80m. Yes we BH's can take the jedi's mission, but it still doesnt help with the others who are free to blow up the bases. Perhaps thats another situation all on its own, but shouldnt Avoid Incap be where you cant attack back while on it?
But back to the Militia members, we definately need something to actually help protect our city.
Again you arent helping your cause if anything you are giving examples of why not to have citywarn. Bases shouldnt even be placeable within city limits and if you place one you are volunteering yourself for the opposite faction to come in. Keep in mind that since the gcw changes in february you dont even lose lots when placing a base. For all practical purposes they cease to be _your_ base the istant you drop them. For a PVE base this holds true even more. By making this arguement you are essentially saying 'TH - we want a way to rack up huge GCW planetary score without possibility of consequence'. It just wont go very far in Dev land. If they do implement /citywarn in a manner that allows players to attack other players then PVE bases would have to come out of cities entirely. Its not your base and once you place a PVE base you do so with the full knowlege its being placed as content for the other faction. PVE bases are there to provide a hint of the GCW and get players into the concept of base taking without the consequence of PVP death. One has to learn to crawl before they can learn to walk. They are not there so you can turn them into a one sided PVP arena.
Omosack Master Weaponsmith Master Shipwright Better Homes and Guns - in the Chilastra Galaxy
- It's time the devs end the bitter fighting by giving the community a Non Jedi server. We have a few servers with TINY populations that could be changed to this ruleset. I support this idea because it punishes noone. - You can support it too. Click Here!
Dosi wrote: What about the jedi who are banning bounty hunters just to keep them from being able to hunt htem in that city?
This is a great example of a way to "grief the system".
I agree there's much concern with this. As a Jedi player I make it VERY well known that no one should be banning a BH who's following a mark regardless of who it is. I have also made it known that /citybanned BHs will recieve /cityPardon after 24-48 hours. There should never be a permaBan unless the individual and not the character is at falt.
Dosi wrote: What about the jedi who are banning bounty hunters just to keep them from being able to hunt htem in that city?
This is a great example of a way to "grief the system".
I agree there's much concern with this. As a Jedi player I make it VERY well known that no one should be banning a BH who's following a mark regardless of who it is. I have also made it known that /citybanned BHs will recieve /cityPardon after 24-48 hours. There should never be a permaBan unless the individual and not the character is at falt.
Very good attitude, I can see why they elected you as mayor. Keep up the good work at making the game fun and fair whenever its within your power to do so.
Omosack Master Weaponsmith Master Shipwright Better Homes and Guns - in the Chilastra Galaxy
- It's time the devs end the bitter fighting by giving the community a Non Jedi server. We have a few servers with TINY populations that could be changed to this ruleset. I support this idea because it punishes noone. - You can support it too. Click Here!
citywarn should work under the old system it had except for a few changes. instead of 30 seconds, change it to 3 minutes. you can got out of a city in 3 minutes if you intend to go on your merry way and not cause trouble. once you are out of city limits, you cannot be attacked, period. ONLY if you are within city limits. you could stand on the edge and dance around for all anyone cared. i'd just leave and if they sucker decided to follow, good, he's toast.
i do not think there is any 'content' within the city limits of any player cities, at least on eclipse. fort krayt on eclipse is not on fort krayt. it ends a good 300 to 500 meters from where everything spawns.
bottom line, if you are banned from a city you should not be able to shuttle to or from it. you can bike in or out like everyone else. no one has banned you from using your bike.
at least give militia tefs back. /twitch
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thunderheart you and soe are great at dancing around things should NOT be done, it would be nice if you guys would actually be constructive. Like all the problems revovle around the towns being around an POI...well hmm, maybe make it so towns can't be placed near them!?! If they were at least 1km out then problem solved. the players could simply go around the city. You guys made the system, so make it work instead of making it not work.
We went to another player city and legitly destroyed thier bases. To get revenge they sent several players, covert, to our city and made super annoying spam shout macros. Yea sure we could addignore him, but its a large city with a big shopping mall and not everyone is aware of that command. Theres nothing we could do about it really.
Then one of thier players got 2 cybernetic arms to give extended range and started taking out our cities turrets from out of range of return fire. Since he was combatant (as opposed to special forces) there was nothing we could do but watch as one by one he took down 12 turrets. Had we had citywarn we could have prevented that in a second.
What made citywarn abusable when it first came out was that when you died in a player city and you didnt set your clone data anywhere else on the planet you would automatically clone in that city. If they citybanned you you would be forced to just stand up (while taking wounds) and they could use citywarn to attack you again in 30 seconds. This caused major wounds and item decay. HOWEVER, that is all impossible now. Now you can chose to clone automatically at an NPC city even if you didnt set your clone data on that planet. Also there is no more item decay on PvP death and buffs are hardly as important so death doesnt mean that much (plus jedi dont lose xp on pvp death now too). Also you can increase the warn time to 5 minutes or more.
There really isn't much abusable anymore and if used in a griefing manner there is no real penalty. If its a city thats meant for PvP then the offender will know not to come back, and if its a city with vendors, well then they're just hurting thier own business.
Dosi wrote: What about the jedi who are banning bounty hunters just to keep them from being able to hunt htem in that city?
This is a great example of a way to "grief the system".
Since when is banning a player from a city to prevent them being able to shuttle in there and therefore make it harder for them to hunt you "greifing"? Or were you reffering to some therorhetical implementation in the thread.
--------- Niiight the Wookiee on Starsider - The Third Jetpack Crafter
Cityban should be limited to structures/features in player cities, other than what we might consider public structures. Primarily "public" structures may include shuttleports, which from an immersion standpoint may mean that in order for a city to get a shuttleport license, they agree with planetary authorities to allow unrestricted use and access to the public at large, and cannot restrict passage or use. This may also include cloning centers.
Players who have been banned from a city would want to:
Be able to pass through the city (access nearby content)
Be able to engage and interact with NPC's and other mobs/wild lairs (content)
Use of shuttleport (at dev discretion)
Use of cloning center (at dev discretion)
Engage in BH-Jedi or PvP actions unrestricted
Aside from the above granted activities, players who have been banned could be restricted from all other features in a player city, including:
entering buildings, including discretionary medical centers and cantinas
use of vendors
use of mission terminals
use of NPC trainers
use of city attributes (research center, job center, etc.)
simultaneous restriction applied to multi-toon accounts (jedi or other "same account" avatar)
use of spatial chat
So, what's the problem?
Message Edited by Crizis on 06-02-200502:29 PM
===================SIG================ Management change and credibility is expected & deserved, and really a requirement for me to desire to log in and not have my MMORPG time completely wasted. SWG's mismanagement, ongoing, lacks credibility. I have no desire to log into my toon, attempt to accomplish something, only to find out that my blue zebra, 12th level, with 20 badges, isn't going to be turned into tomorrow's 4th tier yellow monkey, and all the zebra's stuff is no longer of value. Without credibility, its just a duck hunt game that doesn't even keep score of how many shots land on a duck.
Dosi wrote: What about the jedi who are banning bounty hunters just to keep them from being able to hunt htem in that city?
This is a great example of a way to "grief the system".
Jedi don't grind in cities anyways. All the BH has to do is wait for the jedi to go out and get xp. If Boba Fett was hired to kill say Luke Skywalker, would he charge in guns blazing if Luke was in a military base surronded by friends? Uh no, thats an example of horrible hunting. Fett would wait pateintly and track him and attack at the best moment.
If theres a player in our city named Ima'spy (using a trial account) running into each of our bases obviously getting information, then we should be able to kill him. It just makes sense. There are many other ways players can grief cities. I dont think theres a way for a player city to completely surround a POI. If a rebel guild places a city near the krayt graveyard and only let other rebels shuttle though then fine. Imperials can always just drive there from the next nearest shuttleport. Heck had the rebels not even placed the city they'd still have to drive.
Dosi wrote: What about the jedi who are banning bounty hunters just to keep them from being able to hunt htem in that city?
This is a great example of a way to "grief the system".
Actually, Thunderheart regardless of what you think its not greifing the system because you wouldn't want some criminal coming into your home where ever you live and trying to kill you. You would want the ability to have a free zone where you live. You live in safety and thats the point of a house, both in game and out. And a city, is a mass of houses, and that means a mass of safe places. Its a safe haven for its citizens. Unless, you are telling us theres another reason to put together a player city with the city banning and former city warn ability?
Sorry to burst your bubble and you may be a dev but unless you are trying to remove the real life point of a city/home from an RPG which mimics life as close as possible then you are wrong and should probably consider revamping some of your posts.
Also, as a former mayor. Its not possible to build a city edge to edge. And since almost all content on buildable planets has a VERY large no build zone surrounding it them, even putting multipul citys together would create holes in the boarders that players could get thru to avoid your claim of greifing. Also since the Devs can see these direct forms of grifing if a number of player citys formed as close as possible to do this Im sure the Devs/CSRs could ban the mayors and disband the citys to fix them.
On one last note, you do realise that for multipul citys to reif players in the form you are suggesting while possible would take a GREAT deal of work and cooperation amongst the MANY milita needed to create such a blockade.
"Please note, I have no programming skills to speak of, so this "low level" task is not taking away from any designer fixing the top issues." Q-3PO
