this just proves what we all know about mmo developers in general...whether it's this game or any other.
they are EXTREMELY shortsighted and don't think things out before implementing them. and then, instead of fixing mistakes imbedded in poorly implemented features, they simply get rid of the feature all together...
...battlefields anyone?
Message deleted-
Too much logic. Would have gotten banned or deleted.
Eulbobo wrote: A bh can hunt his mark elsewhere from the jedi's town.... There's no difference right now : if the jedi is in his town, the bh is stucked in front of the house.
POI access.... Give me a SINGLE example of a usefull POI where a town could be a grief? Tell me.... If you make a 2minutes timer, you can access it without any threat...
On leave players? Why shouldn't they be warned? Everyone should except SF players (because they are already PvP enabled). I personnaly want some on leave or neutral players to be OFF my town. I personnaly want a tool to kick the butts of some random guys that come to annoy everyone. I want to be able to say "you are never welcomed here, so move or face milicia"
And that would give a sense to the "stronghold" city specialisation.... If it's working....
Message Edited by Eulbobo on 06-03-200504:42 AM
Banning someone based on what you THINK they might do and not on an action they did is always a bad idea. My first character is a crafter. Because of the way they started doing the scoring of ActIII way back in the day, I had to drop rebel faction and go neutral. There is no perk for a crafter to faction up (now AS have one but thats it). Once they ran a ruleset that determined the winning faction was going to be weighted based on number of factioned completing the quest divided by the number of factioned characters it seemed pretty obvious. Drop the faction and increase the score. It was a pure combat quest and crafters had no chance to complete it.
With that pre-story out of the way I wanted to talk about cityban and how its already misused. As a crafter I use city shuttles to travel the map to get closer to my harvesters. Post-CU on planets like dantooine this is an absolute must since everything 1hit kills me. I am so tired of walking in a city and getting instantly banned because I show up blue to them. They didnt even bother to see that I am a crafter w/o armor. They simply see a blue dot and ban them. IS that behaving responsibly?
My other 2 tunes have MBH in their template now. Just like jedi spend a lot of time whining that MDefender is an absolute must in the jedi template, so too is MBH in a ranged template. Its near suicide to give up all those defences and unless MRifleman was in your template you are also giving up damage to boot. A long story short Its safe to say that an overwhelming majority of respec'd ranged professions have MBH in their template. They too are now getting banned everytime they walk into a city because they _might_ be after someone. Again this is not responsible behavior. Whoever said its their job to protect their citizens, did that include running a gestapo that convicts everyone of a crime without a trial and sentences them to death? By citybanning every blue dot or everyone with MBH in their profile you do exactly that. By citywarning everyone that is a blue dot so you can attack them without even knowing what their story or intent is you do exactly that. You might be mayor but mayor is a Roleplaying mechanic more than anything else.
In the current timeline the imperial senate has been disolved and the regional governors now have control over their territories. A town randomly executing strangers that walk in it would be deemed lawless and the regional governor would have no choice but to dispatch troops to depose the mayor setting up martial law.
Unless they could code the latter into play I seriously doubt you would ever get citywarn in a fashion that allowed forced pvp just because you dont like the color of another persons name. Cityban is already overused as it is and needs some sort of automatic removal system as its already over abused.
Omosack Master Weaponsmith Master Shipwright Better Homes and Guns - in the Chilastra Galaxy
- It's time the devs end the bitter fighting by giving the community a Non Jedi server. We have a few servers with TINY populations that could be changed to this ruleset. I support this idea because it punishes noone. - You can support it too. Click Here!
I can't believe this conversation has gone THIS far. I'm banned from at least 75% of the cities on my SERVER! Yes, the server, not my "home" planet....the entire server. I have been banned for a few reasons. The main reason is hunting Jedi. However, I have also been banned for shopping, shuttling in to see a friend, and just looking around. It's not gamebreaking to be city banned, and not really that big of a deal. The first city I was ever banned from, and recently found out I'm still banned was Warriors Ridge on Tat(SF). I was banned from that city around Oct. 03.
It's not really that big of an issue...now warping me 30m away would be a real pain, and it would be the only time I could think of where I didn't have control over my own player. I don't think that would work.
_________________________________
Tubeck Idos
________________[-FUN-]________________
Master Bounty Hunter
"Tubeck knows better then to trust Sculley"
"Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggie' while reaching for a stick. "It has been said, "Let he who hath no sin, cast the first stone". So why didn't someone pass Jesus a rock?
No I dont think it is responsible behaviour to ban every blue dot you see. I personally just see that as childish, and someone wanting to feel important in some sad way by banning you. But in the end any city that does that will never be able to have a thriving economy with shops and crafters because they will all leave due to lack of customers.
Tucheck wrote: ...now warping me 30m away would be a real pain, and it would be the only time I could think of where I didn't have control over my own player. I don't think that would work.
It would be even worse. Anytime you have warping you run the risk of inter-server syncronization. The galaxy isnt a single server but a server cluster, each machine responsible for a map region. Any time you give a player the chance to determine the time and place of a character transfer (crossing boundaries from one machine to another) you give them the ability to search for credit dupes that exploit the way your character's status moves to that server. People would be holding trade windows open and citywarning them (if their city was in the middle of such boundary) in order to xfer credits but arriving on the new machine with full credit listing. More research and code then would have to be done (thats read as real dollars spent) on how to stop another out of control credit dupe.
Message Edited by EEMAN on 06-03-200508:39 AM
Omosack Master Weaponsmith Master Shipwright Better Homes and Guns - in the Chilastra Galaxy
- It's time the devs end the bitter fighting by giving the community a Non Jedi server. We have a few servers with TINY populations that could be changed to this ruleset. I support this idea because it punishes noone. - You can support it too. Click Here!
@eeman : in that case (player town too close to a NPC shuttle/town), A csr could come and move the cityhall.... Clear and simple.... Even if it could make some bugs.... Or the could change the area zones so that NPC zones are not constructible and out of city control (as long as you have the name of the NPC city you are in, as mentionned on the radar) -> Still access to NPC towns, but possible threat when you leave this area and enter the town
Another point : cityban only prevents you using CITY building, not NPC ones And citywarn can have a timer : when the timer is over, you can come again until you are citywarned again. And only militia members can do it.
I don't want a great town feature to be dumped because of 3 stupid dumb heads that only look forward more grieffing. I want solutions and tools for my town.
I'm not going to throw citywarns to any guy that comes around for a mission or whatever. Some milicia member DO ban every blue dot that pass by.... I don't want them to ruin this other tool that should be a "last resort" tool. They are indeed not responsible.... And those irresponsible guys ruined the citywarn use.... And made it removed. You can't stop a stupid guy from existing... Once a dumb guy decided to ruin your live, almost nothing can stop it. I don't want those dumb irresponsible to prevent me having a usefull tool.
Why do i want a citywarn ? Because i want to have a resort form all the guys that one day came into my town, stood in front of the cantina and start spamming "hail to the rebellion" and other "this is a riot ! We're taking control of this town" ponctuated with "mwhahaha, you can't to anything to me ! I'm the king of this place ! I rule everything"..... I want to kick those irresponsible that will surely jump on every blue dot to kill them if they have a citywarn tool.
But that's the point : Player cities are Players cities.... Meaning that is this is a dumbheads player cities, you should avoid it. Some other guys don't want to share their cities with other players.
For the BH, I have another story that will explain you why stypid guys don't need tools to be stupid. Some imperial friends (mostly BH) received a distress call from an imperial town that was under attack. So they came at the shuttle of the attacked town.... And were banned without any explaination because they had the BH tag.... Only explaination was "BH are not welcomed here, we protect our jedis"... W T F ? They are jedi before beeing imperials? I just have to say that i'm not going to help those guys again one day....
@ademan : you want to kick SF rebels from your town? Be SF yourself.
Only thing i have to admit : I understand why citywarn isn't going to rise again one day. Because of stupid irresponsible guys that are only looking for frags before they do their role : protect their town. Maybe one day, politicians will have real control over their towns....
Message Edited by Eulbobo on 06-03-200505:58 AM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Those bunkers we set in the desert to start a new part of our history will finally be our graveyard
And I personally think special forces should be bannable same as everyone else. Im Imperial, but that doesnt mean I want to ban all rebels from any city I live in. I just want to ability to ban people who are a$$es for lack of a better word lol, regardless of what faction they belong to. For example if a group of roleplayers founded a city somewhere why should they not be allowed to ban someone who comes there and ruins their roleplay by being a jerk, regardless of if he is the same faction or not?
I said I DONT want to kick people out based only on faction lol, either I made a typo or you must have read my post wrongly.
Eulbobo wrote: @eeman : in that case (player town too close to a NPC shuttle/town), A csr could come and move the cityhall.... Clear and simple.... Even if it could make some bugs.... Or the could change the area zones so that NPC zones are not constructible and out of city control (as long as you have the name of the NPC city you are in, as mentionned on the radar) -> Still access to NPC towns, but possible threat when you leave this area and enter the town
Another point : cityban only prevents you using CITY building, not NPC ones And citywarn can have a timer : when the timer is over, you can come again until you are citywarned again. And only militia members can do it.
I don't want a great town feature to be dumped because of 3 stupid dumb heads that only look forward more grieffing. I want solutions and tools for my town.
@ademan : you want to kick SF rebels from your town? Be SF yourself.
Message Edited by Eulbobo on 06-03-200505:45 AM
I keep seeing the 'make it so zones are non constructable' suggestion thrown about. You guys do know the game is actually in a live status right? Perfectly good suggestions if we were somehow beta testing a product and a complete server wipe was comming down the pipe. But these towns already exist on the map and extending the nobuild area would do 1 of 2 things. 1) do nothing to existing structures and city hall efectively invalidating the code and its intent 2) far worse outcry from the public, the code does prevent building of already placed structures as they spawn in putting the structures and items in them in a limbo status keeping the player from accessing them. #2 would really really anger a lot of players.
as for citywarn, in these cities where the outposts are engulfed by a player city, sure you can still use the NPC city structures but citywarn looks at the edges of the city not specific locations. That kind of case by case coding would be expensive not to mention that many conditionals would certainly lead to lag. Imagine zoning into the rori rebel outpost and instantly get a citywarn by militia? Sure you could leave before they can attack you with a timer but when did it become their right to say when and where you can go in this NPC structure?
Personally I like the NPC security guards w/ city faction like the way NPC faction works. It takes time to accumulate enough negative faction to get attacked by NPC and prevents it from being used as a means to grief others.
Message Edited by EEMAN on 06-03-200508:56 AM
Omosack Master Weaponsmith Master Shipwright Better Homes and Guns - in the Chilastra Galaxy
- It's time the devs end the bitter fighting by giving the community a Non Jedi server. We have a few servers with TINY populations that could be changed to this ruleset. I support this idea because it punishes noone. - You can support it too. Click Here!
Maybe one day we will a good idea not spoiled by some .... let's be polite and call them "special kind of players"... that only search frags and grieffs.
Message Edited by Eulbobo on 06-03-200506:00 AM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Those bunkers we set in the desert to start a new part of our history will finally be our graveyard
By becoming Jedi, people knew that bh's were going to hunt them or their friends. It was basically in the "Jedi contract".
Bah, I know I'm speaking upon deaf ears, so... I'll just stop now.
I see this kind of comment all the time and I just have to say that, BH Missions were not always "In the contract". Now, I don't care, I'm not complaining about BH missions or any such thing... I just don't like to see untruths go on passed as facts and posted in large letters.
They were added in (A big and exciting shock) later on down the road. Not many people were Jedi, but many were well down the path to becoming one and just around the corner from unlocking. So, that idea that everyone with a Jedi knew they'd be hunted by BH Players with missions on their heads is not true.
I'm not attacking you for saying it, I'm seriously just pointing out an all-to-common tidbit of misinformation.
Anyhoo, I do find it a bit funny that you want to be able to go anywhere you like without your Profession interfering with other aspects of your play time. I just wonder where the balance is for a BH... you get this unique content that interferes with Jedi Players, yet you suffer no ill consequences. So, you certainly don't think you should fall victim to a Mayor or Militia barring you from doing business in their City.
All players need to go shopping or like to go to other Cities... including Jedi. Do you put so much care into the player that you hunt's play-time? Oh right, the Jedu can stay off of the terms, therefore they won't be disturbed... Well, one could say the same for the BH... Stay away from Hunting Jedi friends of that City and you can go there without any interference.
I say this with all respect to you and anyone that agrees with you... as well as a Jedi that stays off of the terms and a Bounty Hunter that does not hunt Jedi. (And I'm not saying that BH Jedi Missions are bad)
May the force be with you.
- Omadda Szool Kauri
Actually, I was going to get aggresive with this message, but you posted smartly. I, just like you have been around since bh bounties were introduced. One of the first message they got was a warning that their kind might be hunted. I was a bh at this time, and I know that the only reason that jedi weren't hunted was because they hadn't worked out the system on the terminals for a couple months after they turned into a paddie, and probably a little bit of publicity motive.
It was talked about since the game basically went live that bh's wanted to hunt jedi, and if I can find one of those old post's, that stated that they'd be hunted, I will post it.
~BTW, don't look at my post start date, as I didn't find this board till a couple months after I started this game. Being my first MMORPG and all, didn't even know about forums.
- RedSpawn Bravado - Elder Master Bounty Hunter ~ Scylla - Guildleader, Underground Connection Trekso, Elder Weaponsmith ~ Tempest +12 - Tempest 296 -3538 Corellia 1.2k North of Coronet Macallan, Shipwright ~ Scylla "Run! Run like the wind, run like crazy... Hell, I don't care how you run, just run. It makes killing you that much sweeter!."
there have been pleanty of ideas given to you and other developers on different ways to improve the current militia system (or lack thereof). every idea given "won't work" for one reason or another.
how about YOU come up with an idea to fix the militia system, then implement it instead of us giving suggestions and telling us why our suggestions won't work?
currently player cities have absolutely no protection against people who want to grief and abuse the cities. many player cities and player associations are NOT geared towards pvp and don't want to be geared towards pvp. instead of SOE doing something to protect these people from griefing, SOE has stripped away all milita powers because of the handful of cities located near POIs.
regarding cities near POIs...there is NEVER EVER a reason to enter a player city of you don't want to. it may be more convenient to get to a POI by shuttling there through a player city. but, the physical POI locations existed prior to player cities, prior to shuttle ports, prior to mounts, prior to vehicles...we could all WALK THERE.
/citywarn NEEDS to be re-implemented in one form or another. i like the 5 minute ticker idea. i also like the idea of calling in NPC defenders. how difficult would it be to put down a 5 minute ticker warning a player that if they don't leave the boundaries of the city, they will be attacked? after the 5 mins are up, either rebels (in rebel cities), stormtroopers (in imperial cities), or planetary patrollers like corsec (in nuetral cities) to land a shuttle in the city and attack the /citywarned player?
even if it IS difficult to implement a new /citywarn system, it would certainly be a better feature than multiple passanger speeders...which serves no purpose other than fluff (unless other combat vehicles are going to be implemented, and the multipassanger feature is just a test for that - which it won't be). so how about the dev team work on fixing old problems instead of sweeping them under the rug, pretending they never existed, and then ignoring the playerbase who wonders when or if these features will be reimplemented?
Cityban should be limited to structures/features in player cities, other than what we might consider public structures. Primarily "public" structures may include shuttleports, which from an immersion standpoint may mean that in order for a city to get a shuttleport license, they agree with planetary authorities to allow unrestricted use and access to the public at large, and cannot restrict passage or use. This may also include cloning centers.
Players who have been citywarned as a means of encouraging a player to cease actualbehavior (actual behavior, as opposed to presumed behavior - the warning of every BH who came into town whether they did something or not, bah, for example) warned players would be prohibited for 1 hour from the following city features:
from using spatials in town
from entering all buildings with the exception of use of shuttleport
from using vendors
from using mission terminals
from using NPC profession trainers
from using garage
Players who have been banned from a city would retain the ability to:
Be able to pass through the city (access nearby content)
Be able to engage and interact with NPC's and other mobs/wild lairs (content)
Use of shuttleport (at dev discretion)
Use of cloning center (at dev discretion)
Engage in BH-Jedi or PvP actions unrestricted
While banned, other than the above retained activities, players would be restrictedfrom all other features in a player city, including:
entering buildings, including discretionary medical centers and cantinas
use of vendors
use of mission terminals
use of NPC profession trainers
use of city attributes (research center, job center, etc.)
simultaneous restriction applied to multi-toon accounts (jedi or other "same account" avatar)
from using garage
use of spatial chat
So, what's the problem?
Message Edited by Crizis on 06-03-200508:20 AM
===================SIG================ Management change and credibility is expected & deserved, and really a requirement for me to desire to log in and not have my MMORPG time completely wasted. SWG's mismanagement, ongoing, lacks credibility. I have no desire to log into my toon, attempt to accomplish something, only to find out that my blue zebra, 12th level, with 20 badges, isn't going to be turned into tomorrow's 4th tier yellow monkey, and all the zebra's stuff is no longer of value. Without credibility, its just a duck hunt game that doesn't even keep score of how many shots land on a duck.
No I dont think it is responsible behaviour to ban every blue dot you see. I personally just see that as childish, and someone wanting to feel important in some sad way by banning you. But in the end any city that does that will never be able to have a thriving economy with shops and crafters because they will all leave due to lack of customers.
I got banned 2 months ago for being a stupid "Blue Dot" (I'm neutral and most of my guild is neutral, btw).... this really annoyed the piss out of me because I was on a Krayt hunting trip with my guild and that was the closest city. Asked his age... 14...
Now, needless to say, most of my guild is banned from a town that has the closest shuttle. What a bunch of crude nonesence city ban is without a timer. I krayt hunt all the time, and it just pisses me off every freaking time I have to drive to Espa... or Entha, whatever. I used to walk this hike back before mounts and bikes and hated the long trek back then, because of having to walk everywhere... then they give some 14! year old the power to ban me from a freaking town... forever! There should be some kind of limit to this... 2 months... 3... but not forever! BAH, freaking put a TIMER ON THIS GUYS!
- RedSpawn Bravado - Elder Master Bounty Hunter ~ Scylla - Guildleader, Underground Connection Trekso, Elder Weaponsmith ~ Tempest +12 - Tempest 296 -3538 Corellia 1.2k North of Coronet Macallan, Shipwright ~ Scylla "Run! Run like the wind, run like crazy... Hell, I don't care how you run, just run. It makes killing you that much sweeter!."
