Clone Wars, The Exploit... Continuation

[neutrineaux]

We have 5,000 active players a month, we're not worried about 40 people who aren't good for the community anyway.

I of all people desire a wipe but we're not ready yet, these situations actually help us improve our tools, the scale of Basilisk's dumpster fire is very useful for tools to put out fires in our 1.0 server.

I offer this will all sincerity and humility:

If you are truly not worried about the impact this may have (is having) on your player base, you would be well advised to seek advise from others in customer service/communications industries. I have a lot of contact with a couple of these folks who either play or have played this and other MMOs. Some outcomes of the decisions being made have potential serious long-term consequences that do not appear to be factored in, at least from visible indicators.

Again, I offer this with humility, as someone in a customer service industry with contacts as mentioned. No offense or hostile criticism intended.

[cmurphy50]

I offer this will all sincerity and humility:

If you are truly not worried about the impact this may have (is having) on your player base, you would be well advised to seek advise from others in customer service/communications industries. I have a lot of contact with a couple of these folks who either play or have played this and other MMOs. Some outcomes of the decisions being made have potential serious long-term consequences that do not appear to be factored in, at least from visible indicators.

Again, I offer this with humility, as someone in a customer service industry with contacts as mentioned. No offense or hostile criticism intended.

This is a test server. Always has been. Always will be. Customer service isn't really a concern. This isn't a business.

[ForceFielding]

This is a test server. Always has been. Always will be. Customer service isn't really a concern. This isn't a business.

Than why ban the dupers???

Why not let them back in so they can try to do more stuff like that so that it can be fixed?

It's just a test server, right?

[cmurphy50]

Than why ban the dupers???

Why not let them back in so they can try to do more stuff like that so that it can be fixed?

It's just a test server, right?

Are you stupid? They sold in game items for real currency, that's about as far against the terms of service as you can possibly go. You are misinformed if you think you can play devil's advocate on this one. Test server doesn't mean anarchy.

[ForceFielding]

Are you stupid? They sold in game items for real currency, that's about as far against the terms of service as you can possibly go. You are misinformed if you think you can play devil's advocate on this one. Test server doesn't mean anarchy.

No, I'm actually very smart. Probably smarter than you. All the players who were banned didn't sell things for money. I'm talking about duping not cashing in. Your straw man didn't work.

And I'm not playing devil's advocate. I'm exposing the double standard. That it's ok to waste time on bad people, but its not ok to waste time on good people.

If it truly is just a test server then all players who did not sell things for $$$ should be let back in immediately so that they can continue to expose more bugs/flaws. If it's just a test server then why are testers who exploit banned? Nothing matters right? Or does it?

Can't have it both ways.

[carterk2014]

If it truly is just a test server then all players who did not sell things for $$$ should be let back in immediately so that they can continue to expose more bugs/flaws. If it's just a test server then why are testers who exploit banned? Nothing matters right? Or does it?

Can't have it both ways.

This is a foolish way of looking at this situation. These people had no intentions of "exposing more bugs" which is why a system to detect duping had to be developed in the first place.

No, I'm actually very smart. Probably smarter than you.

Brilliant.

[ForceFielding]

These people had no intentions of "exposing more bugs" which is why a system to detect duping had to be developed in the first place.

Once again, if it's "just a test server" then their intention does not matter. They are nothing more than ants to a scientist.

If you think that "it's more than just a test server", then we might have something to discuss.

[lavoria]

No, I'm actually very smart. Probably smarter than you. All the players who were banned didn't sell things for money. I'm talking about duping not cashing in. Your straw man didn't work.

And I'm not playing devil's advocate. I'm exposing the double standard. That it's ok to waste time on bad people, but its not ok to waste time on good people.

If it truly is just a test server then all players who did not sell things for $$$ should be let back in immediately so that they can continue to expose more bugs/flaws. If it's just a test server then why are testers who exploit banned? Nothing matters right? Or does it?

Can't have it both ways.

Keep the cheaters banned. They caused quite enough chaos for the community alrdy.
Dont need them to find gamebreaking bugs either.

Why are the tester's banned for exploiting.

Prob because they arent testing anyting. These testers didnt report anything of their dirty deeds, they got korimord, also... lining their ig duped hotpant pockets with dem sweet credits.

#GURRECKLIVESMATTER

[dsrules]

If it truly is just a test server then all players who did not sell things for $$$ should be let back in immediately

Can't have it both ways.

re-read this, i think you might notice an issue with it.

[rease]

Than why ban the dupers???

Why not let them back in so they can try to do more stuff like that so that it can be fixed?

It's just a test server, right?

They duped/cloned for yearS so why banned them. (Instead, use them).
Exactly, fix the breach with a normal patch and Devs can spy what they do and see if there is another breach...
it's a Beta server no ?

This is a test server. Always has been. Always will be. Customer service isn't really a concern. This isn't a business.

So they tested breach ... we should thank them, no ? logical ?
After all nothing to loose SWGEMU "isn't a business".

I don't want to defend dupers, but you must be logical all the way or Basilisk isn't a BETA server anymore (stop to be a long time ago), like I say for years !!!

->Open Spoiler<-

For devs, their baby is always a beta (can be improved, less bug, more stability etc ...) it's why there is a reasonable dead line ...
Like parents with kids There is majority age. Nothing bad it's human.
Basilisk and SWGemu is better than many other games, more stable than the original (it wasn't a beta on live), and less Buggy.

SWGemu team made/make a amazing great game. The more you like something the more painful it is when someone breaks it. It's why this clone war has hurt so much.

For players like me who started 3 or 4 years ago, unlike the older ones who experienced wipes and resets, the notion of Beta doesn't fit at all. Without doubt a question of point of view.

PS: Sorry again for my English, hope you can understand my thoughts and feelings.

[neutrineaux]

This is a test server. Always has been. Always will be. Customer service isn't really a concern. This isn't a business.

The test server part seems irrelevant -- we all know that, and saying it does not address my point in any way; but as to the "not a business" assertion, a business may be defined as "any project with which one is concerned; a person, partnership, or corporation engaged in... a service; that with which someone is seriously concerned; a project."

So yes, it is a business.

And customer service is absolutely a concern. Thus the presence of CSR/Customer Service Representatives.

But all that aside, I was just making an observation with my personal recommendation based on "the buzz" from other players. I assume a server wipe with terminal beta (or multiple final betas) will happen before final launch. This seems like a good time for that, from my perspective. Ultimately, the developers know what they want from a wipe and terminal beta, and I am not privy to that information. Please consider my wipe suggestion in that light.

And when I have checked the number of people logged in, it has been down more than the 40/5000ths that would be a direct hit from the banned accounts. Maybe the fallout is short-term, and admittedly my data is limited and anecdotal. Either way, treating your customers in a way that promotes loyalty is a basic business tenet. And my hope is to promote that being giving an extra modicum of consideration.

Also, the mention of leaving cheaters in the game so you can follow them and see how much more cheating they come up with may have been offered sincerely or sarcastically, but that does have merit. In fact, add the most clever offenders to the dev team, a la FBI, to hunt for weaknesses in the system.

But when the 1.0 launch occurs, give them a generous less-than-forever-ban as the price for their transgressions.

[Walking carpet]

The test server part seems irrelevant -- we all know that, and saying it does not address my point in any way; but as to the "not a business" assertion, a business may be defined as "any project with which one is concerned; a person, partnership, or corporation engaged in... a service; that with which someone is seriously concerned; a project."

So yes, it is a business.

And customer service is absolutely a concern. Thus the presence of CSR/Customer Service Representatives.

But all that aside, I was just making an observation with my personal recommendation based on "the buzz" from other players. I assume a server wipe with terminal beta (or multiple final betas) will happen before final launch. This seems like a good time for that, from my perspective. Ultimately, the developers know what they want from a wipe and terminal beta, and I am not privy to that information. Please consider my wipe suggestion in that light.

And when I have checked the number of people logged in, it has been down more than the 40/5000ths that would be a direct hit from the banned accounts. Maybe the fallout is short-term, and admittedly my data is limited and anecdotal. Either way, treating your customers in a way that promotes loyalty is a basic business tenet. And my hope is to promote that being giving an extra modicum of consideration.

Also, the mention of leaving cheaters in the game so you can follow them and see how much more cheating they come up with may have been offered sincerely or sarcastically, but that does have merit. In fact, add the most clever offenders to the dev team, a la FBI, to hunt for weaknesses in the system.

But when the 1.0 launch occurs, give them a generous less-than-forever-ban as the price for their transgressions.

SWGEmu is not a business , its a non lucrative organisation registered in Hungary in 2006 , if money gets involved that will be the end

[neutrineaux]

SWGEmu is not a business , its a non lucrative organisation registered in Hungary in 2006 , if money gets involved that will be the end

See definition of business, above.

Businesses exist for other enterprises beyond profit. Perhaps that is where you become confused. They may, as does SWGEmu, exist to accomplish some non-monetary purpose. Being "lucrative" is simply not essential to the definition of a business.

But also, as we all know, SWGEmu does take in money as an essential part of its enterprise. The principles are simply proscribed from being the ones who profit from the income.

[Walking carpet]

See definition of business, above.

Businesses exist for other enterprises beyond profit. Perhaps that is where you become confused. They may, as does SWGEmu, exist to accomplish some non-monetary purpose. Being "lucrative" is simply not essential to the definition of a business.

But also, as we all know, SWGEmu does take in money as an essential part of its enterprise. The principles are simply proscribed from being the ones who profit from the income.

Oh im not confused ,the money they get from donations are for paying the play servers and the forum servers and the log-in servers , the staff dont take salaries cause they know the day they do that they put the whole project at risk of shut-down and staff may end up under legal prosecutions , we dont want that to happen

you cant make money out of someone else property , SWG is Lucasarts property

[neutrineaux]

Oh im not confused ,the money they get from donations are for paying the play servers and the forum servers and the log-in servers , the staff dont take salaries cause they know the day they do that they put the whole project at risk of shut-down and staff may end up under legal prosecutions , we dont want that to happen

you cant make money out of someone else property , SWG is Lucasarts property

Businesses are not all for the purpose of making money. Businesses can be for other things besides making money. Making money is not an essential component in the definition of a business.

Businesses don't have to pay their workers. We call this "volunteering."

Business don't have to make profits. We call these sorts of businesses (cleverly enough) "not-for-profit" and "non-profit." In these settings, the monies collected, if any, are used to further the purpose of the business, and the purpose of said business (obviously) is not profit.

Either way, if the business has customers (i.e., people, partnerships, corporations who receive goods or services from the business), customer service should be addressed, as it is in SWGEmu by CSRs.