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Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics   [ Edited ]
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WolfwoodCross
Wing Commander
Posts: 604
Registered: 01-17-2004


WolfwoodCross

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With the new 11/16/04 patch I feel that, besides a great disturbance in the force, many players may begin to group for real, and group unbuffed at that.  Hopefully this guide will be a great service to them.
 
 
I like to play unbuffed.  I also enjoy playing in groups.  With the monopoly "Solo-Groups" have on gameplay at the moment, I find my only respite to be in the Squill Hunting groups that form in Mos Eisley.  It is this that I will base my experiences and observations on as an unbuffed Wookiee. 
 
Disclaimer - Althought the following may not sound like the conventional SWG wisdom, keep in mind that unbuffed group gameplay is fairly unconventional in our game to begin with.
 
There are three things an unbuffed group requires to be successful - Tanks, Damage Dealers, and Healers.
 
Tanks
 
Tanks are the players that take the attention and damage of a mob.  This should be a melee profession.  A tank will want to wear a full set of armor.  However, an unbuffed tank should note how abilities, HAM, and armor encumberance relate to each other in SWG.
 
Your abilities use your own HAM, so to deal damage you must take damage.  With armors HAM encumberance, your ability to regenerate HAM is greatly diminished, and your special abilities cost rise.  Therefore it is imperative that as a Tank you do not deal damage through special ability usage, as you will only do yourself more harm than good.  There is one ability, however, that you should make liberal use of - /taunt
 
/taunt is the key to proper tanking.  It will allow you to control and direct the attention of a mob onto yourself.  As a Master Brawler, this ability is greatly enhanced so any full-fledged tank should make the Master Brawler box a priority.
 
The one weakness to tanking is the Mind pool, as Mind is still a hard target to heal.  To counter this, tanks may want to use Willpower/Focus items like Vasarian Brandy.  A very good tip to keep in mind also is that removing your armor in between fights will also remove the armor encumberance they impose, which will return your HAM regeneration to normal.
 
As for HAM allocation, tanks will want to focus on HAM as well as Constitution, Stamina, and Willpower.  Strength, Quickeness, and Focus are not as important for a Tank.
 
Exception to the Melee-Only rule, Pistoleer - Pistoleers also make very good tanks.  While most Ranged professions would need to use /pointblank to hit in melee range, a Pistoleer does not have to.  This lack of reliance on abilities to hit short range targets consistently makes Pistoleer stand out as a good tanking profession.
 
Damage Dealers
 
A Damage Dealer is just what the name implies - the person who doles out the big numbers.  This can be any combat class, though I find that the Ranged Professions are much more suited to it.
 
As DD you'll want to do lots of damage, and to do so you will need to make use of your Special Abilities.  Doing so will use your HAM as an "Ability Pool," much like a "Mana Pool" in a Fantasy based game.  Because the amount of HAM you have at a time is important, not wearing armor will be your best way to go.  This will allow you to keep your natural regeneration high and skill-use costs low.  As long your tank is doing a good job of keeping the mobs attention, you shouldn't really need armor anyway.
 
Also, make very good use of abilities that also add status effects.  Blinding or intimidating a mob will help your tank greatly.  If you see the mob is dizzy, use a position changing shot to knock them down.  Or you can use a shot to make the mob dizzy and your tank can use their basic lunge move to knock them down.  At the cost of varied Status Effect abilities, you may want to gather Damage Dealers that all target the same pool.  Battles become much easier if you can concentrate your fire on the same targetted pool.
 
There's no one uber way to go with your HAM stats as a Damage Dealer.  You may want to customize your HAM to your special costs, or you may want something more general.  How you play as a damage dealer will ultimately guide your HAM allocation.
 
 
Healers
 
This is where SWG truely shines.  Long gone are the ways of the "necessity" of Cleric/White Mage classes.  While a true blue Medic is a great asset, as long as at least two of your party members have Healing Skills you should be fine.
 
The best people in a party (besides out and out Medics) to have healing skills are your damage dealers.  In doing so they now become DD/Support.  Tanks can use healing skills to, however, since using Stims wastes your Mind Pool, and that is the one current weakness of unbuffed tanking, it's highly advised against.
 
The best Ranged Professions to also be Healers are Carbineers and especially Pistoleers.  Riflemen need their Mind Pool for their own abilities, and are typically to far away to be a good Medic in a time of peril.  Pistoleers really shine in this role because they are right near the front line where healing is needed most of all.  Front line DD/Healers may want to invest in a suit of light armor, preferably with the lowest encumberance possible as to not hinder their DD roles.
 
 
Ultimately, the minimum ideal group is Two Tanks, Two Damage Dealers, and Two DD/Healers, which are all very easy to come by.  Pets/Droids can be an asset as well, as they can tank any adds you may come across.  Remember though that Pets/Droid will take away from the overall XP a player will get (as XP is determined by effort put forth).
 
 
Other Good Skills to Have
 
Scout/Ranger - The Hunting Tree will allow you to hit creatures with normal attacks more consistently, which is great for tanks.  The Trapping Tree will let you reliably apply status effects on creatures (costs Action unless you use a Trapping Droid).  The Survival Tree lets you utilize camps.  While in a camp your base regen rate raises slightly, you can have your wounds healed, and you can be entertained to heal your Mind Pool and wounds.
 
Entertainer/Dancer/Musician - Basically the entertainer brings traveling Mind wound care with you.  This is very good to have if you have a Combat Medic with you, or if your tank takes grievous Mind wounds.
 
Combat Medic - A great asset to have out on the field.  Has all of the skills of a Master Medic, as well as the ability to heal a targets Mind Pool.  Healing a players Mind however causes Mind wounds for the CM, so it's an ability to be use with care.  Thankfully, listening to an entertainer in a camp will help regen those wounds.  Also has the ability to apply DoTs at range.  Very good in a party if paired with Pistoleer.
 
Doctor - The king of Health, Action, and substat wound care.  Can heal all of those hard-hitting status effects, and also has the ability to raise those who have fallen in battle to often or have been death-blown.  Requires a Medical Droid or a camp to be fully utilized outside of a Medical Center.
 
Squad Leader - Has the ability to augment the overall combat ability of an entire party.  Can coordinate the battle through the use of system messages.  Goes really well with Rifleman, especially if perched from a good vantage point to observe the battle below.
 
 
Understanding Damage
 
One thing to note is how normal damage shots roll onto a target's HAM.  I've never been much of a number cruncher, so I'm not going to go into all of that here.  But it should be known that any normal shot has the highest chance of rolling onto the Health bar and the lowest chance of hitting the Mind bar, despite your combat profession.  Non-specific special abilities also follow this rule.  Only the HAM specific abilities target their respective HAM pools.
 
This rule applies to both damage you inflict as well as normal damage done to you.
 
 
Playing in a Mission
 
When you've finally gathered your group, it's time for missions. 
 
As of 11/16/04 Mission Payout will be determined by the number of people in your party, and by how close you are to the mission upon it's completion.  You will only ever receive an amount equal to the original payout divided by the number of your party members, and you will only receive your pay if you are near the mission when it is finished.  Also, if you add a player after your missions have been selected, the mission payout is recalculated to include the new member.  If you "solo" the mission, you will still only receive the Payout/Party amount, not the full amount like in the recent past.  This encourages players to stick together when playing.  By having people "stick together" it is most likely hoped that player reliance on "buffs" will diminish as well.
 
To get the higher level, higher pay missions you'll want a larger group.  It's best advised that players all equip their "best" weapon when choosing missions.  That is to say by "best" I mean the weapon their character has the most skill boxes in.  Mission difficulty is determined by the number of players in a party as well as their skill in combat.  Their skill in combat is calculated by the weapon they are currently holding.  With the 11/16/04 patch pets/droids will no longer be able to be used to receive higher pay missions, so their is no need to call them out for that purpose.
 
All group members should look for high pay missions in a single general direction - N, E, S, or W.  This helps to minimize travel time between missions.
 
When all of the party members have their missions, it's time to follow that yellow arrow to your first target.  If you are fighting Creature mobs, then Mask Scent is a very good skill to have active when you arrive.
 
Once there, it is imperative that you clear all current lair guards before attacking the lair itself.  Try to "pull,"
 or lure, one mob away at a time to fight it.  If you attack the lair prematurely, you will "aggro," or gain the malevolent attention of, all of the guard mobs, so do your best to take them out one by one.
 
After the guards are taken out you can take a brief rest to heal up.  If you are attacking an NPC lair, then you may simply destroy the lair, as these tend not to spawn any new defenders (not 100% sure about higher level NPC lairs on that).  If you are fighting a Creature lair, then you must use a slightly different tactic.
 
When fighting a Creature lair, everyone may attack the lair when the party leader gives the OK, and all of the mobs are cleared out.  However, as soon as a mob is spawned, the party must cease fire on the lair and turn the attention to the new mob.  When a Creature lair spawns it typically spawns two to three new defenders at a time.  The tanks must successfully /taunt and tank the new adds, and the DD and DD/Healers will go into action.  If any one player continues to attack the lair, then that player will gain aggro from the mobs, despite the tanks best efforts AND it will force the mobs to run to and heal the lair, undoing the work that the party just previously had done.
 
After finally destroying the lair you may all rush to the next one, or create a camp to rest up and heal any grievous wounds you may have earned in battle.  Either way you choose, your next missions are simply an instance of Lather, Rinse, and Repeat.
 
 
 
Well, that is my guide.  "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts," as the saying goes.  If any of this seems old hat then, well, good.  That just means you are a knowledgable player.  But there are many people out their don't know alot of this stuff; not that it is their fault.  They have just grown used to a game of uber buffs and solo-groups.  I hope this has helped them.

Message Edited by WolfwoodCross on 11-19-2004 09:51 AM

11-15-2004 07:09 PM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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eznihm
Jedi
Posts: 2526
Registered: 08-09-2003


eznihm
PA: Zith
Server: Shadowfire

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  Yeah, this is how we used to play.
11-15-2004 07:47 PM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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NoShoesTrandoshan
SWG Chief Petty Officer
Posts: 79
Registered: 09-10-2003


NoShoesTrandoshan
PA: Brotherhood of Nod
Server: Bria

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Brings back those memories... baz nitch groups...

----
Bosrlok - Bria
Rebel - Colonel - Ace Pilot
Leader of the Brotherhood of Nod
11-15-2004 07:58 PM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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Ford86
Jedi
Posts: 2433
Registered: 06-26-2003


Ford86

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eznihm wrote:
  Yeah, this is how we used to play.


fort tusken....needless to say getting from the cave entrance to the top took a very long time. that if we didnt die first

To Keep The Peace We Must Prepare For War....

Click here for laugh's
11-15-2004 09:03 PM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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Frilans
SWG Chief Petty Officer
Posts: 377
Registered: 12-14-2003


Frilans
PA: New Order
Server: Corbantis

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Reading this I remembered the times when I used to group that way, frightened to death, on Endor or Dath.

No buffs, and you will know what fear means Also, grouping for hunt is a must for me, talking about fun.

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I'm tired of signatures
11-16-2004 12:56 AM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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JohnnyMiracle
SWG Second Lieutenant
Posts: 281
Registered: 02-24-2004


JohnnyMiracle

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I am just wondering how high lvl dungeons are meant to be done when the rebalance comes. Also the "nerf buff criers" I would like your input as well.

I am Hodab

Type O Negative rules
11-16-2004 01:08 AM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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Yeevle
Jedi
Posts: 6851
Registered: 07-01-2003


Yeevle

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Nice post, I can honestly say I have only ever used a doc buff once, it takes all the strategy out of the game. Glad to see I'm not the only one that see's this.
11-16-2004 01:22 AM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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loungelizardlando
SWG Second Lieutenant
Posts: 336
Registered: 12-04-2003


loungelizardlando
PA: in a galaxy full of noobs, there can only be one nOOOb(a remnant of the Craigvolveran era)
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one thing to add. combat medics can heal mind, but it gives them mind wounds. good idea to bring a scout and entertainer along to heal those up. and as for lairs, you should clear the first spawn, then have 1 player "tap" the lair once and only once. after the resulting spawn is taken care of, have everyone open fire until the damage goes past the letters of the lairs name, then stop. anticipating spawns>reacting to them

Howl like a wolf
And a witch will open the door
Follow me and meet our high priestess, yeah-ee-yeah

Come, come into my coven, yeah-ee-yeah
And become Lucifer's child

Undress 'til you're naked
And put on this white coat
Take this white cross and go to the center of the ring, yeah-ee-yeah

Come, come into my coven, yeah-ee-yeah
And become Lucifer's child

-



i bore witness to the Craigvolveran era
11-16-2004 03:04 AM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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DragonSnack
Wing Commander
Posts: 841
Registered: 05-30-2004


DragonSnack
PA: Flurry Antarian Rangers
Server: Flurry

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This is how I want to play.
As soon as I get my RP character figured out.
Something along the line of a smuggler that is a covert rebal (commando type) operative.
When that is accomplisehd then....
I'll start RP kindergarden and I will probaly only be buffed and armored for PVP battles (the big ones - not the more common one on one fights) and not for everyday running around doing things
 
 
 
 
 
 
11-16-2004 06:40 AM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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Iseult
Interior Decorator
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Registered: 09-10-2003


Iseult
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Server: Bloodfin

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Wow - really good guide. 
 
One thing to add is that camps, even the basic ones will increase everyone's regeneration rate, so if you find yourselves recovering after each mission, then you might as well drop a camp to speed things up.  There is also not the 15 second delay when calling vehicles when you do so from a camp, so if you are going after things that like to eat vehicles unbuffed, then it's worth the time to store them, set up a camp to recover and pull your vehicles before heading to the next mission.
 
Also, traps can be useful for holding back creatures, etc... Traps have ham costs, though, unless you use a trapping droid.  A final tip would be to consider using droids to help your tanks -- they aren't as tough as high-level ch pets, but they can take a lot of damage, so they are useful for holding off mobs as well.
 
Iseult
Master Ranger / Mediocre Rifleperson
Bloodfin

_____________________________________________________________

Iseult
Elder Ranger / Respec Moisture Farmer
Bloodfin


Iseult's Adventure Shop - winner, galactic homeshow 1.25.2007
11-16-2004 09:29 AM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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Janzi_Dax
SWG Lieutenant
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Registered: 08-17-2003


Janzi_Dax
PA: CoV
Server: Ahazi

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Just like the good old days. I've gone the doctor buff route, and while its mildly entertaining, its much more fun in my opinion to go the unbuffed/food buff route. I've been going that way almost exclusively now. I'm also going to try and go for non-uber armor in anticpation of overall resists being lowered. It should be viable if the costs of food and stimpacks don't exceed the overall output of the missions.
 
Now if I can just find an armorsmith willing to make some padded around 40-50%, but putting a lot more experimentation into lowering the HAM costs.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Janzi Dax: Field Commander
Je'nai Dax: Jedi
Pwalloom Bendon: Medic
V'buk Kyak: Trader(Structures)
Shorpirr: Trader(Munitions)
Shodu: Bounty Hunter.
11-16-2004 09:30 AM  

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psycocat
SWG Second Lieutenant
Posts: 436
Registered: 03-12-2004


psycocat

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I remember days like that....
nice guide.  thanks

Shala-renn Xibotepotl. MCH/MFencer/Dancer. Bria.
Zigie. Musician. Ahazi.
Yhissh. (Slave Trader) Businessman/BH/Rifle. Bria. [Alt]

"Time for our own benchmark. The entertainment we offer."
-Rabenschwinge
11-16-2004 11:06 AM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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Rikilii
Jedi
Posts: 6134
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Rikilii
PA: TC-GCW "Imperium"
Server: Test Center

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JohnnyMiracle wrote:
I am just wondering how high lvl dungeons are meant to be done when the rebalance comes. Also the "nerf buff criers" I would like your input as well.



Simple.  The Devs go into the creature database, and reduce the HAM levels of those mobs by a factor of 10.

Believe it or not, last fall, before buffs and armor got as crazy as they are now (55% composite was "uber"), Canyon Krayts only had about 35K HAM, and they were a BIYATCH to kill, even with a group of 10+ (half of which would end up dead if you didn't have a few Rancors tanking the MOB).  Now they have 350K ham. 

I rest my case.

---------------------------------------------------

Ahazi: Tekhap Ybrae--Former CM and Homeless Nublar Extraordinaire.

TC: Avaro Tribec--Co-founder of the TC-GCW, and Self Proclaimed Leader of the Imperial Legions
11-16-2004 12:41 PM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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DustusNavar
Jedi
Posts: 1602
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DustusNavar
PA: True Fellowship [TF]
Server: Bria

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WolfwoodCross wrote:
The one weakness to tanking is the Mind pool, as it is still the only pool that is unhealable.

The mind pool was made healable several patches ago.  I can't think off-hand what profession box it's in, but the mind is healable.

22 Professions Mastered Jedi Padawan Rebel Colonel
Killing In The Name Of

11-16-2004 02:04 PM  

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Re: Better Late Than Never - A guide to unbuffed party dynamics
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pagebt
SWG Commander
Posts: 231
Registered: 06-26-2003


pagebt

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never asked for a buff, and never fought with one (I was dancing and a doc gave em an action buff)
 
This is the way the game should be played!


Cora Relven:
Master Smuggler Smuggler's Alliance Pilot 4|3|3|3
You can't take the sky from me... - Firefly
"Flying is the art of throwing yourself at the ground and missing." - Douglas Adams
11-16-2004 02:11 PM  

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