Well since Farstar has'nt had a even a half decent copper for makeing weapons caps i can't comment on how good they will be when we do. But my boosters and weapons beat the hell out of any looted ones I've seen. Even with a really crappy JTL ore i can make an engine with a TS of over 103 and y/p/r of about 55.x
I crafted a level 9 engine using very high quality resources, and got stats that were rather inferior to a looted level 6 engine that my friend dropped off. The level 6 engine has NOT been reverse engineered.
Level 9 (crafted):
Y/P: 55.0
R: 51.0
SPEED: 103.3
Level 6 (looted):
Y/P/R: 67.0
SPEED: 103.9
Something wrong there.
Now, to add some further data on this subject.... in my opinion, there should simply be a range on ALL components of every tier. I think there probably ARE ranges, but somewhere some numbers are skewed. In general, ALL looted components should be CONSIDERABLY inferior to crafted components. That is the way it has been with loot since day one, and that is what has made crafting professions appearling to myself and many other people.
Level 10 components should be very rare to find. I'm pretty sure they are. But in case they become more common, this should be fixed. People should be EXPECTED to have to seek out a PLAYER shipwright to really customize their ship.
As it stands, once a person buys a chassis or two, they can pretty much spend all their days as a pilot without ever visiting a shipwright again. This is highly unbalanced compared to other crafting professions, especially weaponsmith and armorsmith.
When was the last time you looted a very very good weapon? Sure, they DO drop. Nightsister lances, for example. But they are NOT at all common. Weaponsmiths still have a lot of work to do to keep the pepole happy. Why shouldn't this be the same for shipwrights?
The biggest issue I have when sitting down and trying to compose my thoughts on the subject is the simple fact that space loot is fun. I think the overwhelming majority is not going to be in favor of nerfing loot, and even as a master shipwright I am loathe to give up any of my looting fun. But here is where I see some balance taking place:
1) Make loot possibly great in one stat, not multiple stats. This "nerf" would be nullified with Reverse Engineering, of course, but the loot wouldn't be of any significant worth without RE. This puts the components in our hands whether they are loot or not. For instance, a looted reactor can have a really high energy, but it should weigh a ton. Or if it is really light, it shouldn't put out nearly as much energy. We can still RE these to get a nice reactor. I think what aggravates me more than people ending up with nice loot is people using raw, non-RE loot that is better than what I can make.
2) Boost the bonuses of some of those subcomponents we make. Raise the bonuses we get with some of the components, or maybe we need a couple more. Something to boost engine YPR would be nice, and the capacitor subs just flat don't raise it enough. I won't ask to be able to make a 1500 cap 40 recharge capacitor, but one or the other would be nice. Does that make sense? I would like to outdo loot in at least one stat consistently. Like I do with weapons. I can beat the capacitor energy per shot of looted components 99% of the time. I like that. I want that with more stats.
Well, I ran out of time to add things to this list. Basically, I don't want to see loot go away, or get worse, but what I do want to see is a more consistent involvement of the shipwright to the entire process. Plus I want people to have a really good desire to come and get a custom made component from me, and I be able to tweak whatever stat they need tweaked. Something they just can't get with loot.
Sinjen Elder Ticklemonster - Unlocked Pre Publish 9 Master Pilot THE Hero of Tatooine
< Weaponsmiths still have a lot of work to do to keep the pepole happy. Why shouldn't this be the same for shipwrights? >
As a WS *and* a SW I'm pretty happy that most Space loot that drops is junk.
The sole exception being Capacitors.
The only people who fixate on the YPR values on engines are the people who haven't figured out the 'sweet spot' for turning on their chassis-of-choice. I can 180 in a Rihryxk (More vowels, dammi!) at 40% throttle *very* quickly. YPR is meaningless in that context.
Brilyn Master Weaponsmith Master Shipwright Main vendor on Naboo, Vagabond's Rest: -1850, 2330 Secondary vendor on Talus, Kyu'mai: 250, -4680 Starsider
SLK wrote: Why cant loot be subcomponents like in the groundgame? Would make some nice interaction
I second this. Component loots don't need to be eliminated, but it would be nice if subcomponents were also looted so that a great crafted weapon could exceed loot. I wouldn't want SW to become like WS, in which loot determines everything and woe be it to the poor potential SW who has no great loot with which to make a name with, but occasional great subcomponent loot would be a nice addition to help round things out, I think.
----- Etragahl (Former Jedi, Now SOE Slave) Tal'Ira (Former Creature Handler, Now SOE Slave)
Dear SOE Developers, can I have some of what your smoking??
I have no problem with looted items being better than what can be made. But those items need to be like looted weapons on the ground. Occasionally better, or add skill mods or different effects, but for the most part only good for RE'ing. Perhaps raise the bar on crafted resultes to beat out 90% of what's looted with the occasional "good stuff".
in my opinion the big umbalance is on capacitators and this need to be fixed (boost of SW ones)
for engines is it true that generally looted engines have better YPR but is also true that the drop rate of good engines, expecially good speed ones is really low.
with SW "speed boost" i see them more balanced, and now that the 92speed engine got nerfed i think that there will be more customers
for weapons i also don't see big imbalances, SW ones seem worse cause of bad mods but they have very good speed/energy 4 shot, for my taste adv and exp ion guns with speed enhancement and experimented on speed/energy 4 shot are among the best guns, comparable even to good RE stuff.
reactors are ok in my opinion, a good SW can craft very nice low level reactors , some looted ones are better than that but overall i don't see so big differences... things change with high level stuff where some very rare reactors outclass the best SW ones, also high level reactors are totally useless atm.
boosters... i don't bother with them very much i use mostly high speed engines and when i use them doesn't make big differences for me if they are really good or just decent. so i can't express an opinion here.
i don't use too much even armors (most of my craft have not them to save space ) the ones i use are crafted ones that seem to be generally better than looted.
shields... crafted ones are generally better, to beat them you need a good RE one
2 issues: 1) capacitors - crafted ones cannot even get close to most of the low level loot drops
2) weapons - experimenting on the vs shield or armour mods is rubbish !!! nowhere near enough improvement to allow us to approach some of the looted values.
Also - why are odd numbered levels of loot generally worse than the level lower ? Not only is the mass lower, but more often than not the effectiveness is higher as well !! If that was a misguided attempt to make crafted items more preferable, it doesn't work !! I'm still using a lot of even numbered loot in my ship, and I am a master shipwright with access to some pretty good resources.
I would think it was fairly straightforward ....
Let the shipwright achieve the max/min available value on any single experimentation line when using the best resources, and average values on everything else. That way, we would be able to compete against a fair proportion of the loot, but would naturally not be in the same league as a reverse engineered component.
Here are some examples of what i use with me being a master shipwright.
Caps, I have a looted level 7 cap 48.9 recharge. 8k mass, cant come close with crafted.
Reactor - I use a looted level 2 13,900 2 k mass reactor. I can craft a level 7 thats 16k tops.
Shields, my best crafted 7 is 1500 ish, I use a looted a level 8 2600 ish
Engines - i use a level 5 looted 92 top speed with mid 60's for turns. best crafted level 7 i can do is 89 top speed with mid 50 turns.
I found some weapons that are looted that far pass crafted but i don't have numbers and i use my crafted weapons cause i beef speed to death.
Armor i use my own crafted
Boosters I use my own crafted.
Basicly there is a large chance of getting a far better looted item then crafters have the ability to make.
I also have a major issue wirth reverse eng. That being that a novice can reverse eng any level loot item and skill improvement does not increase the bonus gained.. so anyone that wants to make good money as a parts sales person only needs to be a good pilot with novice shipwright skills and you get better items then a master can make.. seems backwards to me.
Kiashia [90 Elder Jedi, 90 Spy, 90 Medic, 90 Bounty hunter, 90 Commando] The crystal is the heart of the blade. The heart is the crystal of the Jedi. The Jedi is the crystal of the Force. The Force is the blade of the heart.
I also have a major issue wirth reverse eng. That being that a novice can reverse eng any level loot item and skill improvement does not increase the bonus gained.. so anyone that wants to make good money as a parts sales person only needs to be a good pilot with novice shipwright skills and you get better items then a master can make.. seems backwards to me.
This is (or was) a limit on what you could RE according to RE level and skill level - as a 1000 SW I couldn't RE level 2+ weapons.
i think we should separe looted items from reward ones
looted are the ones normally found, they probably have their own rarity and can be found anytime
rewards are special items that players aquire after various missions, they are 1 time items (if the player don't surrender pilot) and every pilot can get them
Kiashia wrote:
Caps, I have a looted level 7 cap 48.9 recharge. 8k mass, cant come close with crafted.
Reactor - I use a looted level 2 13,900 2 k mass reactor. I can craft a level 7 thats 16k tops.
Shields, my best crafted 7 is 1500 ish, I use a looted a level 8 2600 ish
this is probably a lv8 reward shield that you have RE, different from looted shields... lv7 looted can have stats superior to crafted one but is really difficult to have them on front/back/recharge and mass, generally from what i saw you have to RE looted shields to make one superior to a crafted one. It also depends mostly on how the shield is crafted, for example i'm still using a lv5 1200 crafted shield in one of my ships and don't plan to change it
Engines - i use a level 5 looted 92 top speed with mid 60's for turns. best crafted level 7 i can do is 89 top speed with mid 50 turns.
even this one probably is a reward (but lv should be 6), there are looted engines superior to crafted but is not so easy to find them so far i have looted only an engine with 100+ speed and i have almost 3 masters and around 20m of prestige points. YPR of looted is far superior to crafted in this i agree and maybe will be better to experiment on all 3 stats at once instead of having them splitted, or to give more points to experiment with.
I found some weapons that are looted that far pass crafted but i don't have numbers and i use my crafted weapons cause i beef speed to death.
now i'm not saying that cause they are rewards is all ok, but is different than looted items, they are 2 different "designs", i see most of the complains came out of reward items (even the lv8 2500-3600 gun mentioned above is probably a tier4 reward) and is not that all looted items came out with that stats and because everyone have one they are common loot, in my opinion we should separate the 2 things and consider what is really loot and what not
Looted: Looted capactors frequently top the high 30's in rate. After RE's several dozen yesterday, i noticed high numbers on L2, but very low on L3 / L4. (Mid 30's for L2 v 19-23 for L3-L4).
Reactors -
Crafted: Reactors are great - nice balance to the addon's, very nice to craft L1 reactors with 11000 gen rate for a interceptor, or 19000 gen rates for a multiplayer ship - however would like to see standardised HitPoints (HP) for reactor (not armor HP - just HP) as the lvl u use depends on the class of ship u use - not the lvl of equipment.
Looted: All the reactors i have seen are junk.
Engines -
Crafted: Reward engine was great - would be nice to have - crafted engines (L7) at those kinda performance numbers. To many experimentation catorgoies for just 15 points... Please merge or increase experiment points.
Looted: Have heard of 105-107 looted engines, seems balanced all in all.
Boosters -
Crafted: Nice and fast, still to many experimentation categories though...
Looted: Largely junk at higher level, low level (low mass) ones useable after REing on (excessively) small ships aka awing - xwing class's.
Armor -
Crafted: Lets put it this way: L7 Plating Description - ...suitable for small fighters like the Z95 & X Wing... WTH? This weights 15k for front & 15k for rear - i.e. more than double the entire mass of a Z95, about 1/3 of the mass of an Xwing. Armor need weight revision - probably -50%
Looted: Not looted any worth mentioning.
Shield -
Crafted: Needs a effectiveness increase like armor seemed to get. Needs +5 experiment points for the categories
Looted: Not looted any worth mentioning.
Blasters -
Crafted: Blasters = poor effectiveness, too many experimentation categories
Looted: Looted blasters seem very nice (when RE'ed)
I process and reverse alot of loot as I am the master shipwright for a 5 player group. From what I have been able to tell, good quality seems to run on the odds.
Armor : Crafted has more strength but higher mass.
Boosters : Odd rule here. Level 2 4 6 and 8 are better than 1 3 7 9 respectfully. So a looted level 2 is better overall then a looted level 3. All equal levels are better then crafted.
Capacitors : Crafted are a joke. Odd rule agian plays here. Looted 2 is better than looted 3, 4 is better than 5 and so on. Sweet spot on these are level 4's where you can get up to around 45 recharge with 1100 energy and low mass. If you can afford the mass, then a looted level 8 can have up to around 51 recharge and 1300 energy.
Engines : Mission reward is the best as it is a level 6 and reveresed with high modifiers makes a 95.9 level 6 with nice stats. Loot here is average but better than crafted. I have seen level 2 engines with 68 speed.
Reactors : Odd rule again : Looted 2 is better than 3 ect... Sweet spot is a looted level 4 that can have close to 15k output. The one I personally use is a level 4 reversed with 2315 mass and 14573.6 output. Crafted at this level cant come close. An exception to the rule would be those legendary ones out there. I found a level 8 that has 36387.7 mass but 38893.6 output. Reversed the stats were 24377.2 mass with an output of 40838.3. Of course I have no need for that much power but its nice to look at in the shop.
Shields : Tough one actually. I feel that all shields in the game are less than what they need to be. If npc and player strength was increased I think it would provide longer more involved battles. Though, much could be debated on which stat is best on shields, I prefer a high recharge rate. My crafted level 7 shield is 306.2 reactor, 16796.2 mass, 1076/1076 f/b , with a 16.08 recharge. I found that with that high of a recharge I can dive and turn to keep levels up. Only problem is the hard hitters like gunships which knocks them out in one hit. Of course though even if I sacrificed the recharge, it would still take them out in 2 hits. So not much gained. Looted again runs on the odds and seems to concentrate on strength and not recharge. My current loot shield project is a level 8. Between 12 level 8 shields, the best reactor is 1958.9, the best mass is 27452.3, 2433/2433 f/b with a recharge of 13.95. I am holding out until I find a higher recharge one. All in all crafted can be just as good if not better, depending on what it is you need.
Weapons : I spend quite a while since beta trying to tell which weapon is actually the best. Even though you are seeing looted weapons with these high effective numbers doesnt always mean they are better. You have to weigh in all the stats to determain your actual weapon effectiveness, or WE. I have come up with an equation to do this but I will not bore you with it. All in all, most stock looted is not as good as crafted. This is as it should be. Most reversed looted is better than crafted. This is also as it should be. Biggest issue here is e/s or energy per shot. Odd rule again comes in play with a interesting note that level 6 looted weapons have a much higher e/s than level 7's and even some 8's. This should be lowered. A few examples though for weapons to give an idea :
Level 6 looted and reversed (out of 17 choices) e/s =26.7, EDPsec(effective damage per second)= 2327.726, SC (shot cost per second) 41.078, WE (weapon effectiveness)= 56.666.
Level 7 crafted using high quality materials 950+ stats and using a speed limiter to reduce e/s. Then all points to min damage and any remaining points to max damage. e/s=18.7, EDPsec = 1518.48, SC = 28.2, WE = 53.846.
So even though you might have a much higher EDPsec of a looted weapon, your actual WE may come out to be close. Some other looted and reversed I have done have been a level 7 at a 61.62 WE, level 7 at 65.11 WE, and level 5 at 41.566 WE. Best weapon found so far is the Borstel disrupter that I believe is a gift for missions that everyone gets. Level 8. After reversing using 10 choices WE is 245.75! Though of course you only are given one. If anyone is interested in the WE equation I will make a post about it if your interested.
In conclusion, most looted and reversed items far exceed crafted (as should be) whereas stock loot falls within about the same effective range. Odd ones out are weapon caps that are way out of range for crafted, and level 6 loot weapon energy per shot which is much higher than should be. I would like to see 15 exp points given for all items really, with a moderate bump to engine speed and responsiveness, weapon cap recharge range, and weapon effectiveness. Sorry about my post being so wordy.
) the ones i use are crafted ones that seem to be generally better than looted.
