ok... i get it... i've got to RE a bunch of items in order to procure the desired pieces... but, can anyone tell if the component level has a factor on the piece that is found?
In other words... of these pieces that are being found, how many of the 6/8 come from lvl 2 comps? or lvl 3?... etc, etc.
.....and thanks for clearing up the fact that Kuat Systems are NOT the only loot items that drop the schem pieces.
I am pretty sure lvl does not matter. I think i got my 6/8 off a lvl 1 and i am certian i got my 1/8 off a lvl 1 also.
------------------------------------------ Minass (was minas but i hate trandoshans so now im minass) Former Master Bounty Hunter Retired PvP'er Master of Opportunity Vendor: -3459 -5668 Mos Nova, Tatooine (Offers Go Here!)
I just made my first Firespray schem a few minutes ago, took about 900 loot bits. I was under the assumption that only the kuat parts would drop it (this is what i was told by guildies). Wish i would have read this thread earlier haha. oh well
off to make another..
Irman Cool :: 12pt RIS Certified Master AS Mikota :: Master Tailor and Chef Patrick Logan :: Master Architect Black Bantha Vendor Showcase (Theed @ -6140 3300) Black Bantha HoloChess and Gaming Hall (Theed @ -6200 2700)
"I am not talking about probability. I am talking about chaos."
I know you are not. What you are talking about is baseless superstition. People like you get 2 parts in a row and it spawns a bunch of hilarious "theories". Look at Diablo II as a great example of this. The code was examined and determined to be straight probability and yet people still insisted that fighting pindleskin with green armor on after a server reboot with a full moon would produce a windforce.
"Case in point. Since my last post, in this thread, I have found 5 disks. All 5 were disk 2/8. Random? Look at the odds. First of getting 5 disks. Then of getting all 5 disks the same. Lets focus on getting 5 disks all the same. Each chance is 1 in 8. But as you go on the odds change to getting the same disk. Like rolling an 8 sided dice 5 times and getting all "2"s. I would love for someone do the math on this to figure the exact odds of this. I think that last disk being 2/8 was somewhere around 30,000 to 1 odds."
Guess that blows this bit of crap out of the water huh? - "Keep your disks in your main inventory. I have tested this and I am less likely to get a duplicate disk if they are in my main inventory." One down a few more to go.
By the way, if you think 30,000 to 1 odds are bad, guess what chances of winning the lottery are about 70,000,000 to 1, and it still happens.
"The intention could be for it to be random but computers can not be random."
Please spare me your babble about something you know nothing about obviously. No computers can not be totally random, who cares. I can run a simulation on a TI-82 (what, 5 year old calculator?) and have it pick a number from 1 to 1000, and increment a corresponding position in an array, then have a printout that displays the percentage of each one in the array, and after enough iterations, guess what the percentage is? If you said close to 1 out of 1000, BINGO! You win! And thats on a damn calculator, so dont tell me that there is some huge gross error in the PNG that they are using.
You see thats the problem with probability, people for some reason assume that unlikely things can not happen, and that if unlikely things do happen, that there is something wrong. Guess what, if it COULDNT happen, it WOULDNT be random.
All of your statements are based on coincidental occurances, and you have really no information to back any of it up, and it all sounds like pure garbage.
Here let me help you:
if x < .005 then firespray_schem = yes
Thats about all the devs have to do to code this using a random method. Are you honestly going to tell me, that with the amount of debugging devs have to do, that it is programmed to interact with what you have in your inventory, how much of it is there, how many specific parts you already have ect? I think not. Its highly Illogical.
Do me a favor, keep a log of REing 5,000 parts. For this, keep your inventory 75% full with REd parts, and keep 7 of the 8 firespray schematic peices in your inventory.
After you do that, empty out your inventory totally, and keep no firespray parts in it. RE 5000 more parts. My guess is that you will not see any different results than the first time.
You see, in statistics and probability with dealing with random numbers, with something like this when the chances of getting a part are probably pretty low, a sample size of 500 (and possibly even 5000) is insignificant to determine any concrete data. I could just as well RE two things that were Level 5 Ion engines, get a firespray schem twice, and state that as the holy grail of finding schematics, and it would be total crap and you know it.
Man, that is a lot to read. Somebody give me a summary in a little bit please. I assume it was mainly to put to rest the various myths about collecting the disks?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo . . : : VOLKET : : . . oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo CRIMSON CORSAIRS oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo "I don't like taking the Rebel bounties oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo....but a hunt is a hunt" oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Haven't done a ton of RE - but have gotten one disk so far - lol, 6/8 (from level 2 components if anyone is interested).
Now I have guildys putting up houses to store their stuff by level so I can RE it - will go through them this weekend... (um, hopefully)
Tre'bor Nadrojian of Scylla Ex-Mayor of Haven, Corellia Vendor: Corellia (6731, 4630): SHIPS, Components and other random stuff (numbered loot kit items for now only 5K each).
I dunno. Everything you describe about your personal experience can be explained as anecdotal side effects of a completely random process. I don't put much stock in any of the suggestions. For one, I'm keeping my pieces in my bank where they are secure. Not in my inventory where bad stuff sometimes happens.
Though it may have seemed like doing X helped with Y there is no way to conclude that any of the things you suggest are really true unless you did X hundreds of times and then didn't do X hundreds of times and both times under the same conditions, for each of the many points you mention.
For example: you say it comes in waves. Random processes come in wave too quite frequently. If they didn't, they wouldn't be random.
Message Edited by Malitevv on 11-05-200401:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------- In a minute there is time For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.
I hope I can trade my double disks because I need 2,3, and 6.. I've found a guy who wants to trade me 3 and 6 but it seems that nobody on my server has a disk 2 for me :/
Andros Celsum~ Master Bounty Hunter ~ "It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot be both."
Marzuk147 wrote: "I am not talking about probability. I am talking about chaos."
I know you are not. What you are talking about is baseless superstition. People like you get 2 parts in a row and it spawns a bunch of hilarious "theories". Look at Diablo II as a great example of this. The code was examined and determined to be straight probability and yet people still insisted that fighting pindleskin with green armor on after a server reboot with a full moon would produce a windforce.
"Case in point. Since my last post, in this thread, I have found 5 disks. All 5 were disk 2/8. Random? Look at the odds. First of getting 5 disks. Then of getting all 5 disks the same. Lets focus on getting 5 disks all the same. Each chance is 1 in 8. But as you go on the odds change to getting the same disk. Like rolling an 8 sided dice 5 times and getting all "2"s. I would love for someone do the math on this to figure the exact odds of this. I think that last disk being 2/8 was somewhere around 30,000 to 1 odds."
Guess that blows this bit of crap out of the water huh? - "Keep your disks in your main inventory. I have tested this and I am less likely to get a duplicate disk if they are in my main inventory." One down a few more to go.
Only disk I didnt have was disk 6/8 at the time. Since that seems to be the clincher disk for me it still proves something. I have close 40 disks now not counting the ones I turned into schems. Only disk I have only ever found 2 or less of is 6/8.
By the way, if you think 30,000 to 1 odds are bad, guess what chances of winning the lottery are about 70,000,000 to 1, and it still happens.
"The intention could be for it to be random but computers can not be random."
Please spare me your babble about something you know nothing about obviously. No computers can not be totally random, who cares. I can run a simulation on a TI-82 (what, 5 year old calculator?) and have it pick a number from 1 to 1000, and increment a corresponding position in an array, then have a printout that displays the percentage of each one in the array, and after enough iterations, guess what the percentage is? If you said close to 1 out of 1000, BINGO! You win! And thats on a damn calculator, so dont tell me that there is some huge gross error in the PNG that they are using.
You see thats the problem with probability, people for some reason assume that unlikely things can not happen, and that if unlikely things do happen, that there is something wrong. Guess what, if it COULDNT happen, it WOULDNT be random.
All of your statements are based on coincidental occurances, and you have really no information to back any of it up, and it all sounds like pure garbage.
Here let me help you:
if x < .005 then firespray_schem = yes
Thats about all the devs have to do to code this using a random method. Are you honestly going to tell me, that with the amount of debugging devs have to do, that it is programmed to interact with what you have in your inventory, how much of it is there, how many specific parts you already have ect? I think not. Its highly Illogical.
Do me a favor, keep a log of REing 5,000 parts. For this, keep your inventory 75% full with REd parts, and keep 7 of the 8 firespray schematic peices in your inventory.
After you do that, empty out your inventory totally, and keep no firespray parts in it. RE 5000 more parts. My guess is that you will not see any different results than the first time.
You see, in statistics and probability with dealing with random numbers, with something like this when the chances of getting a part are probably pretty low, a sample size of 500 (and possibly even 5000) is insignificant to determine any concrete data. I could just as well RE two things that were Level 5 Ion engines, get a firespray schem twice, and state that as the holy grail of finding schematics, and it would be total crap and you know it.
That is Firespray schem number 2 for me. How many have you got? I rest my case. Next page please.
By the way the thing about computers arent random isnt me saying it. Its MIT. Since they have about a thousand times more years experiance dealing technology and modern science then you have, who do you I think I am going to believe.
Oh and you want one more definate fact there college boy? 80% of the disks I got were from Incom and KSE. And I have been doing all sorts of loot. Not just one. Trying to make it completely even. Thank you.
Tyranus
Yoda: "When I die, the last of the Jedi, you will be!" Luke: "Really? what about those 50,000 Jedi Masters outside comparing Saber Size?" Yoda: "Sorry I am, My Bad it is"
"That is Firespray schem number 2 for me. How many have you got? I rest my case. Next page please."
It doesnt matter how many I have, Im not even a shipwright, I just know a moron when I see one.
"By the way the thing about computers arent random isnt me saying it. Its MIT. Since they have about a thousand times more years experiance dealing technology and modern science then you have, who do you I think I am going to believe."
Dont go throwing around names just because you think its good for your side of the arguement. I admitted that computers are not totally random, but then gave information that demonstrates that for this purpose they are RANDOM ENOUGH. Feel free to ask MIT about this.
"Oh and you want one more definate fact there college boy? 80% of the disks I got were from Incom and KSE"
Great, you get what, 20 disks, and you hold that as proof? Please man dont even waste my time. Thats flipping heads three times in a row while facing south, means that facing south makes the coin show up heads.
As far as finding less of 6/8, if your own theories are correct, you should not have had this problem, having had your inventory full of other REd loot, and having had all the other schematic parts in your inventory.
Your proof is all baseless. Try again.
Also just an FYI - there are random number generators that are good enough cryptograhic strength applications, so dont tell me they cant make one good enough for a simple game. Using the standard rand() operator with a good seed would yeild a random enough result that there would be no feasable way to exploit it.
While he is not being particularly nice about it, everything that Marzuk147 has said is completely right, and everything you've said in rebuttal PetaByte has been, from a scientific/mathematical standpoint, completely invalid. Every argument you have posed would be immediately dismissed by any scientist or statistician (or MIT professor, /rolleyes ), as anecdotal and therefore consisting of insufficient evidence to lead to any conclusion whatsoever.
Shoot the entire content of your second rebuttal consisted of nothing but boasting (about how many parts you have) and name dropping (mentioning MIT). You actually offered no argument whatsoever.
You'd be wise to stop argueing at this point. If that's all you can come up with you've clearly got no understanding of the things you are talking about. Marzuk is being rude. That is true. But he's right. And all you are accomplishing in your rebuttal is making yourself look like a fool.
Nothing wrong with making observations about your personal anecdotal results, but trying to argue that they really proof something and then bringing random number theory up in defense of your arguements when people point out that your results don't really demonstrate anything....that is silly.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- In a minute there is time For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.
do u have to RE 2 or more of the same items at the same time or can u just RE 1 componet at a time to get a fragment of the firespray?
i've gotten the schematic pieces from REing RE level 1 items (1 component at a time). I've also gotten them from REing level 2 items (2 components at a time).
All evidence is that it's completely random. Just RE everything you can and eventually you'll get the pieces. It might very well take a while though.
--------------------------------------------------------------------- In a minute there is time For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse.
Marzuk147 wrote: "That is Firespray schem number 2 for me. How many have you got? I rest my case. Next page please."
It doesnt matter how many I have, Im not even a shipwright, I just know a moron when I see one.
"By the way the thing about computers arent random isnt me saying it. Its MIT. Since they have about a thousand times more years experiance dealing technology and modern science then you have, who do you I think I am going to believe."
Dont go throwing around names just because you think its good for your side of the arguement. I admitted that computers are not totally random, but then gave information that demonstrates that for this purpose they are RANDOM ENOUGH. Feel free to ask MIT about this.
"Oh and you want one more definate fact there college boy? 80% of the disks I got were from Incom and KSE"
Great, you get what, 20 disks, and you hold that as proof? Please man dont even waste my time. Thats flipping heads three times in a row while facing south, means that facing south makes the coin show up heads.
As far as finding less of 6/8, if your own theories are correct, you should not have had this problem, having had your inventory full of other REd loot, and having had all the other schematic parts in your inventory.
Your proof is all baseless. Try again.
Also just an FYI - there are random number generators that are good enough cryptograhic strength applications, so dont tell me they cant make one good enough for a simple game. Using the standard rand() operator with a good seed would yeild a random enough result that there would be no feasable way to exploit it.
"so dont tell me they cant make one good enough for a simple game." First this is SOE we are talking about here. One word... HOLOCRONS!!! Come on these guys use Oracle as their database.
Second cryptography? Even a 128 bit encryption can be broken. By guess what? Patterns. Wow. Isnt that amazing. As for a standard rand generator. They are called "pseudorandom number generators" for a reason. Depending on how its seeded will depend on the results. Is it based off the system clock? Then the results will be pseudorandom but you can still find the pattern. May take awhile but it can be done. How about off the default value of 1? Then the results will be the same everytime. Even with the best seed in the world a pattern can be found. May take 500k results and another computer to find it but it will be there. "Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digitss is, of course, in a state of sin." - John von Neumann
Third as I said about disk 6/8. If it is the hard one to find then reason and logic (something you need to invest some skill points into) says that if I have every disk except 6/8 I will get doubles. Let me give you an example. Say that when there is a "hit" done by the generator it then goes to another generator. If 6/8 has a lesser value then the rest then it will come up less. And if a line of code states 6/8 bypasses the disk in inventory idea then your gonna get doubles. If I have every disk except say for example 2/8 and 6/8 then next disk I get will be 2/8. I have tested this and though I need to test it some more I think its starting to get close. I intentionally pulled out disk 5/8 today when I first started. Can you guess what the next disk I got was? Yep 5/8. Later I pulled out 7/8 and next disk I got was 7/8. Still could be randomly selected as its only a few times I have done this but I shall see. If I pull a disk and get a double of one in my inventory then the theory is going to need more testing.
Fourth how do you think statistics are formed? They take a group of something and test it. If you get 80% of your disks from only KSE or Mandal or whatever while looking in all loot then guess what? KSE or mandal or whatever has a better chance for you. Doesnt matter if it was tested with 20 disks or 200 disks. If you flip a coin 10 times and get heads 8 times then you got heads 80% of the time. Real simple to understand. Deny it all you want but its fact. And until you actually come in here with cold hard numbers, dont begin to tell me any facts. Yet we dont see it. At least I am trying to form theories on this based on the results I get. If your not part of the solution then your part of the problem.
As I go along I will continue to test it. Nothing I said is considered set in stone. As I said they are tips. Not scientific fact. You need to learn the difference. If any of these theories are wrong what does it hurt? Does it really matter if someone keeps their RE'd loot in their inventory until they are full then start dumping/destroying it? No it doesnt. But you act as if Bush will get on TV and say "Due to people keeping their RE'd loot in their inventory we have decided to extend the war in Iraq another 10 years." Does it bother you so much if people keep their disks in their main inventory while they RE? You act as if a tornado is going to hit your home just because some guy on some server decided to keep his disks in his inventory.
Sorry dude but one thing I got on my side is results. I got two schems so far. When I find another 6/8 I will have three. When I have another 3/8 and 6/8 I will have four. Whether its superstition or truth I am obviously doing something right.
And since my last posting I found 3 more disks all in KSE loot in one hour. I then switched to Seiner loot for an hour. I found zero disks. I then switched to Incom and found 2 more in an hour. After that I switched to Keonsayer and found zero again. This kills my theory of the disks coming waves. But shows I get a definate increase with certain loot.
Oh and if your so bent on scientific fact then luck doesnt play a part as luck doesnt exist. So you explain it.
Tyranus
Message Edited by PetaByte32 on 11-06-200402:22 PM
Yoda: "When I die, the last of the Jedi, you will be!" Luke: "Really? what about those 50,000 Jedi Masters outside comparing Saber Size?" Yoda: "Sorry I am, My Bad it is"
???? 
