Kayl's Legacy - Hey Everyone: Stop Selling/Wasting Good Spaceloot!!!
Liberated from the Eclipse Board, all of the following work is done by our departed friend, KaylBreinhar. I repeat: HE DID ALL THE WORK! I'm just moving this to a more high traffic area and consolidating it into one line of posts not separated. Am I guilty of copyright violations or something like that? I guess maybe if that includes moving his work to the pilot boards.
NOTE: Since this is still going strong, I should tell you - read this entire thread. Not necessarily in one sitting, but I've got several case studies and other guides on the other pages, along with useful links. I occasionally get preachy - but if you find one of those, just skip over it.
Seriously, folks - ol' Colonel Breinhar needs to take out the ClueBat and knock some sense into some of you. I check the vendor search and planetary bazaar SEVERAL times each night looking for throwaways by y'all and I find a lot of stuff that's REed that REALLY SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN.
The following is a list of what you should KEEP, because it's what *I* look for, and thus, most everyone else will, too. This'll take a bit, so bear with me. I'll learn y'all yet...of course, this might be a tad self-defeating if you learn what NOT to put on the bazaar for 500 credits.
...personally, I'd rather pay more for phenomenal loot than a pittance for the frustration of seeing crap night after night on the bazaar.
+++PART ONE+++
Level 1:
Reactors - this is about it for L1 loot - pretty much everything else is expendable. In this bracket you're looking for high-gen reactors (12-13k range). I have an L1 DXR REed to 14032.1 gen, so ALWAYS LOOK AT THESE BEFORE SELLING THEM. Most are crap, some are gems.
Also, STOP PUTTING YOUR STARTER SHIP PROTOTYPE COMPONENTS ON THE BAZAAR. They're WORTHLESS! You can't RE with them, you can't even sell them to the chassis dealer. Stop plugging up the bazaar listings with crap no one's gonna buy!
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Level 2:
Reactors - same as above - the best thing about L2s is that you can factor in mass. Anything from 1-1.2k and BELOW is good.
Capacitors - energy near to or around 950+, regen in the high 30s (38+)
Engines - keep your eyes out for high speed and high YPRs (in an L2, anything over 62 in Yaw or Pitch would be eyebrow-raising)
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Level 3:
Reactors - here you want to look for high hp in addition to high gen and low mass. Nothing else is really worth saving, but every so often you might get a phenomenal L3 cap, so always examine everything.
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Level 4: (Where it starts to get interesting, re: complicated)
Reactors - again, same principle. Reactors stay viable up to about L6. L8s are SOMETIMES good for heavy fighters/POBs (due to some phenomenal gens in the RCT-Z lines), but typically L1s to L4s are about the max you'll need in a regular ship. High gens are important here, and your masses should stick around 4k or preferably lower.
Capacitors - here's where, for the first time, reactor drain can be added into the equation. The lower, the better. To simplify this for you, there seem to be a specific "brand" of L4 cap that's good for everything you'd need:
* Gallant A1 - low masses, low drains * Gallofree LT-22 - high regens * Corellian Tuned Mark II & Special BJN-825s - high pools * Qualdex Conservator Q3 - high regens, but LT-22s are usually better bets
(These are not 'sure things,' except in the case of the A1's, they're usually very decent mass and regen-wise.)
L4 caps are extremely valuable to Rebels and JSF-flying Imperials. The 40-45+ gen rates can put out more than enough juice to satisfy two WO3ed weapons. The figures you're looking for are any drains under about 750 (I've seen and have 550s), regens over 40, and pools in the thousands (1300s exist, I have one). Mass should be right around or UNDER 3k.
Engines - you're looking for pitch and yaw over 62, speed over about 68, and allocate the last one as needed (mass, drain, roll, or HP/Armor).
Boosters - this is one of my favorite and MOST FRUSTRATING CATEGORIES OF L4 COMPONENTS. One word of advice to REing shipwrights: I KNOW there's a glut of L4 boosters out there, but PLEASE QUIT WASTING THE GOOD ONES. There are three names you need to know in this category above all else:
* Mandalmotors M-Series * Novaldex Hypernova * Sienar Special Ion Booster
These three are VERY good L4s that have the energy storage of an L8 at an L4 level (1980.x pre-RE). If I had a credit for every one of these that were wasted on COMPLETE CRAP REs, I'd be a billionaire. DO NOT WASTE THESE.
These can be PRICELESS when REed **CORRECTLY**. First off, the two most important stats in L4 boosters are mass and burn rate. The three boosters above take care of drain, energy, and regen - no other [L4] booster in the game will do better on these stats than the above. For masses, if you see a booster with a 2xxx instead of a 3xxx or 4xxx, CONTACT ME IMMEDIATELY. 2xxx-range boosters are EXTREMELY NICE. There's a 24xx L4 on the bazaar now, which was REed with CRAP. I CRY every single time I pass it. Secondmost important is burn. 145 and lower is your friend. I have a 140.0 L4 and it gives me 17 pure seconds of thrust. This is very nice.
Finally, one thing the three names above don't do best on is speed. There are 26.x pre-RE boosters out there. They're rare, but they DO exist. If you get anything UNDER 26.x, ditch it and feel content you're not giving me a migraine.
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That's all for now, because my fingers are getting tired. Next time around, we'll get into weapons in the higher levels, which is everyone's favorite subject.
Message Edited by CommTampers on 05-19-200605:29 PM
Message Edited by CommTampers on 05-22-200601:09 PM
Lieutenant Bon ~ Sabre 4 ~ Captain of the Midnight Blue ~ Field Doctor
"But I don't use armor! It takes up too much mass!" Pshaw. Armor your goddamned birds or that "pssh" sound you'll be hearing when your shields drop is money getting sucked out of your account for a new damned chassis when you decay yours down to 10/10. JTL was designed as a credit sink - never forget that.
(Aside: look at your ship's chassis the next time you're at a terminal - if it's anywhere under about 750 points, you need to either a) stop dying, or b) think about getting a new set of blueprints. Think of your chassis score as the last line of defense against death - it's like a stealth armor plate. It needs to be a high enough score that it'll soak up damage. 10/10 is asking to be fried like a shrimp at an Outback - it's doable if you're confident in your skills, but if you're confident in your skills, your damned chassis score shouldn't be THAT GODDAMNED LOW.)
There are only three levels of armor you need to concern yourselves with - L4, L6, and L8. These grades tend to drop the most phenomenal hp-to-weight ratios in the game. REed armor is suggested for MASTER PILOT USE ONLY, as understandably so, REed pieces are nigh impossible to duplicate, and using Deep Space for an Armor Body Shop is well worth the 30k prestige if you've got some nice ass sheets.
Odd-numbered armor CAN be good, but I've found you have to go through a LOT of pieces before you find ones worth keeping. Also, don't forget your local shipwright if you've got the mass to spare - it's far less taxing mentally to use THEIR stuff, since you really have to fly a different way when using REed sheets vs. crated.
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L4: can RE to over 700hp (though 600s are a better number to shoot for), and when REed in conjunction with Sienar Flight Systems Light Military Grade Durasteel, will ALWAYS be at a weight of 1986.x. Shipwrights can't be that by a MILE for that mass, which makes this PERFECT for non-Heavy TIEs. 600-700hp will soak up about 5-6 Vette-class turret hits. This crap SAVED MY ASS on numerous occasions back when I was tied to my Advanced.
L6: can RE to over 1300hp with masses under 6k. These are IDEAL for new ships like the JSF and Bell - the Corellian Triplate always has a nice little hp of 1269.x that REs to the 1320.x range. Even if you just put *one* of these up front to provide a little turret insurance. These will take about 8-10 hits, maybe 11. I use L6 now to give myself a "dual-shielded" edge - it's like having a single-use shield under my already pretty substantial L8 reward. Not that I'd want to test it, but I should be able to take a Borstel-level hit with my setup as it is now with no component damage, thanks to this armor.
L8: Nym's starmap quest rewards a nice 1920.x L8 sheet. L8 is far too damned heavy to fit to even a heavy fighter (except in rare circumstances). HOWEVER, you CAN find *phenomenally* low-mass L8 pieces (I've personally found a 9.5 and 12.7k piece), which make them IDEAL for new Heavy fighters, even if it's just a front-half piece.
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I'll get to L5+ part guide soon enough, but figured I'd extoll the virtues of REed armor because I have a feeling people just pitch this stuff most of the time. Also, this keeps me from having to write about armor in the next and final part.
Also, regarding selling armor on the bazaar...
...guys, your USED (un-REed) PLATES with decay aren't worth 15-20000 credits. I'd buy them for 250-500 credits as RE fodder as you only really need two pieces for ANY armor (barring L1, but that stuff is crap anyway). When you put a 0.0/210.2 L4 piece on the bazaar for 20k, you're making the Baby Jesus (and more importantly, ME) cry.
The only exceptions to this rule are used (again, un-REed) low mass pieces.
Again, these are:
L4: Any Sienar Flight Systems Light Military Grade Durasteel. These are always ONE weight and no L4 slabs can beat it.
L6: Anything right around or (preferably) under 6k (3 and 4k pieces are rare, but exist).
L8: Anything preferably around 12-13k and under (yet if you've got a four-digit L8 piece, KEEP that baby for yourself and run the first phase of the Starmap quest, you'll thank me later).
Message Edited by CommTampers on 05-19-200605:31 PM
Message Edited by CommTampers on 05-22-200601:37 PM
Lieutenant Bon ~ Sabre 4 ~ Captain of the Midnight Blue ~ Field Doctor
Normally I'd say reactors here, but they pretty much cease to be useful until L8 after L4 due to a kind of law of diminishing returns. Simply put, they just get too damned heavy and don't put out as much power as their lower-level counterparts for the weights they start packing.
No, the L5s you need to watch out for are...
Weapons:
"Huh? Are you high, Jotun? L5s?!?!" No, I'm not high. A good REed L5 weapon (or two) can make a nugget pilot's second (and sometimes third) tier grind a LOT less painful. However, there's really just a simplistic form to follow for these (since it takes about seven guns to make an ideal weapon RE, and you only get five here):
Drain - anything under 2000, the lower, the better. WO3 might well be bugged, but one thing it DOES do as-intended is increase the drain of your current equipped weapon by about 1/3. (NOTE: THIS INCLUDES 'WEAPONS' SUCH AS MISSILE AND CHAFF LAUNCHERS - FACTOR THEM IN WHEN LOADING MULTIPLE WEAPONS) Put two 2300+ drain guns on a newbie's ship with a dinky reactor, and you're gonna get one unhappy flier when he tries to run WO3. That's 1/5.
Damage - I USED to say mass here, but that's not really a concern for ANYONE anymore with the new heavies. If you're putting twin L5s on a Dunelizard, mass MIGHT be a concern, but probably drain will be a bigger one. You want at least a 1k min with a 1.5-1.8k max. There's 2/5 (possibly 3/5 as well if you have to mate two guns to get the ideal spread).
Effs - on an odd level weapon, anything over .6xx is worth keeping. If you can't get one that excels in both, go for vs. Shields over vs. Armor. There's 3&4/5. Reason for vs. Shields is given the choice, it's quicker to de-shield and disable than destroy outright - the more damage that's dealt through the shields, the quicker you get to the components.
Finally, go with EPS over refire for #5 if in a two-gun ship, and refire over EPS if in a one-gunner. Better yet, you're not going to be using these long, so in a two-gunner, it's best to mix-and-match an EPS and refire-specialized gun to make it easier on a capacitor.
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Level 6:
This is the first "biggie" level, yet in one category, it's only "big" for older (and new, richer) pilots.
Engines:
I've seen more good L6 engines wasted than pretty much any other piece of loot in this game. It makes you cry, seriously.
Simply put, the only way you're getting a pre-nerf L6 reward engine nowadays is by being very lucky, very miserly, or very friggin' rich. What takes skill (and immense PATIENCE) is finding the right loot to match up with one of these pretties.
Drain: You're looking for 1300s and 1400s. Remember EO3 and EO4 boost these values by a factor of 3x and 4x respectively - so the lower, the better. It's not fun when you overdraw a reactor.
Mass: Anything under about 9300 is a keeper. There's a certain someone with an 8510.5 pre-RE L6 out there who knows I'd give a one of two vital reproductive parts for it, so if you loot an L6 with an "8xxx" vs. "9xxx" or "1xxxx," you've got a VERY nice piece.
YPR: You want to reach 70.x, and to do that, you need an ABSOLUTE MINIMUM of 67.4 for a pre-RE value. If the drain and mass suck, and NO values are at/above 67.4, by all means, get rid of it. Obviously, higher is better, and 67.4 YPR engines aren't worth big bucks. 69 and 70.x+ pre-RE engines, on the other hand...... :/
Speed: The L6 speed CAP appears to be 79.9 now. You probably won't find better, and if you do, you didn't loot it - someone else did, a LONG time ago. If you want a nice pre-nerfish engine nowadays, you have to look two levels higher (more on that later).
Capacitors:
L6s make EXCELLENT caps for heavy (not the newbie Heavies - I'm talking Kimos/X-Wings/etc.) fighters. As I'm probably running out of room for this section......
Drain: Again, you want at, around, or under 700. Reactor drain is bugged and doesn't RE, so it behooves you to look for the lowest drains possible on ANY part that requires power.
Mass: Nine words - Mon Calamari Modified Heavy and Qualdex Heavy Capacitor Array. These two "brands" seem to give the best masses of the L6 line - 8000s and 7000s (the latter half being rarer than hens' teeth). 6xxx's might be out there, but I've never seen one.
Energy: This is pretty self-explanatory - the higher, the better. 1200s or better, keep high 1100s, ditch the rest. Some rare drops have been known to hit near 1500. Keep that in mind if you want something uber.
Regen: Qualdex Conservator QX2s seem to [usually] have the best regens of all L6s. Keep anything over 46.x.
Weapons:
L6 weapons are, unit for unit, the most underappreciated/underrated weapon grade in the game. These things can be AMAZING support weapons for ANY class of fighter. They can kick the everloving crap out of an L7 on effectiveness, and give it a good run in the damage realm as well. These weapons go great with an L7 *or* L8 main. Where else are you going to get a 17-1800 to 25-2700 damage blaster with near .7xx effectiveness ratings with a mass under 10k? It's gravy that there are so many of these, too - which should satisfy you ship ricers who like "all the purdy colors."
Drain, once again...shouldn't be over 2k if you can help it. 1/6 - this is non-negotiable, because you'll want to keep this for a two-gun ship.
Mass, anything under 10k. Again, less important with Privateers and Rebels, but you don't want to half-ass this if you can help it. 2/6.
With regards to damage, usually high-damage L6s are respectable on the mins as well. Given a choice, though - go with a high damage and try to find a high-min with another desirable stat to lessen the sting. 1700s and above for min, and 2600s and above for max are definite keepers here. 3&4/6
Effs run along the same lines as the L8s I mention in the next post - you want .64x or higher, but again, if you've gotta make a sacrifice, go for vs. Shields. over Armor.
L6s are ideal for "mate" weapons, so EPS is a little less important if you're using a Borstel or low-EPS L7. If you're using a 40+ cap and WO3, you could fire both weapons until the Second Coming and never run out of juice.
Refire is the S.O.S. - .40x or lower, or if you want a non-forced "staggered fire" effect, find a high-refire weapon and mate it with a .30x L7 or .37x-.38x L8. You won't be sorry.
Message Edited by CommTampers on 05-19-200605:32 PM
Message Edited by CommTampers on 05-22-200603:45 PM
Lieutenant Bon ~ Sabre 4 ~ Captain of the Midnight Blue ~ Field Doctor
"Hey Jo, you said reactors weren't useful until L8!" Yeah, well...I'm a lying pr1ck, get over it. I'll keep this brief, though. Look at your L7 reactors. Some might surprise you in how good their gen rates are, and an L7 reactor's highest mass pretty much comes in where you'd want an L8 to be, so take a look at these before you pitch 'em.
The Slayn & Korpil "Vortex" Mk3 is the RCT-Z of the L7 category. Masses go down into the 13s on exceptional pieces, possibly lower.
Shields:
This is usually the Shipwright's domain, but good ol' Nym kinda stole this from them (provided you get/find good loot). Nym's Starmap quest (talked about extensively in the Game Guides forum, you just have to look) awards an L8/RE7 shield called the (wait for it) Protect-O Net. You can almost smell the 50s nostalgia coming off that name.
The plusses to these things are that SW-crafted L7 shields tend to suck power down more than a hobo sleeping in a liquor-laden boxcar (they can't help it, it's the design). Get the right shields, and you'll have a comparable 1800-1900hp shield with around an 18-2200 reactor drain vs. the ~3400 you'd get from a SW, probably with a higher regen to boot. Shields are pretty self-explanatory - use the L7 crafted shields on the vendor search as a benchmark, then take your best and reduce/enhance everything there by a multiple of .04 (4% - the bonus gained at RE6&7). Mass should be 17k or lower - anything under 16k should be treated as exceptional.
Weapons:
There are only really two weapons you need to concern yourself with here for damage:
Sienar Flight Systems "Boltdriver" Ionic Pulse Weapon
Now, the first one is predictable. It's an Imperial-awarded weapon. It's pretty much always 1910.x-295x.x. The Ionic Pulse, awarded by Eyma during the CPG missions for the RG Interceptor/Vaksai/Heavy X-Wing, is a lot more chancy. SOME have gotten 3xxx+ IPWs, pilots like ME got CRAP. The one thing BOTH have in common are that they're rewards - you can't loot these.
Again, for the drain, think under 2k. The lower, the better. If you've got either of the two above weapons (provided your IPW is 2.9-3k+), your damages and hp/armor are taken care of, so you've got more elbow room to branch out with.
For mass, anything under 14k should be considered exceptional. Keep anything from 15.5k on down, though. 16k+ L7s are relatively common.
Effs should be anything over .6xx - odd-numbered weapons aren't exactly known for their heavy-hitting ability in this department, so 62-65% (post-RE) ain't half bad.
EPS should be 24 or lower, because you're looking for a refire in the pre-RE range of .33x to .32x or lower. You don't want a gun with a post-RE .30x refire rate taking 30 points every time it fires.
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L8:
Engines:
I think it's about the four millionth time I've mentioned it, but do the Starmap quest. Nym can reward an L8 with about 28k mass with a potential speed of up to 99.9 (damned friggin' dynamic rewards system).
But provided you get that sixty-million credit engine (I'm thinking in terms of Lee Majors, not real credits - put your tongues back in your heads), you want to mate it (like the L6) with parts that don't SUCK.
Drain gets a little less important here, because if you're running an L8 engine, chances are you've got a decent reactor loaded. Still, 1525-1450 and lower should be the magic range.
L8s with a mass of 25k or lower should NOT BE TOSSED.
As for PYR, you're IDEALLY shooting for a post-RE score of 75.x+, but 73-4 ain't bad, either. A good rule of thumb is to keep (as in, NOT SELL) any L8 with any PYR value over 70.x. To make a 75.0 score, the absolute minimum is a 71.5 engine.
Speed - the only engine that can give the Quantum Ion Drive a run for its money is the pre-nerf Haor-Chall Reward Engine, which most people probably friggin' sold to the chassis dealer, because I've seen VERY FEW of them. Do the Starmap quest. Chances are you won't regret it (unless you get an engine with a speed under 88.5 - the current speed of the POST-nerf Haor-Chall). [Edit by Bon: The quantum ion drive has an insane range. The current max is around 108, but anything over 100 is very rare and you should snatch any you see.]
Weapons:
Say hello to Mr. Borstel Disruptor, everyone. If you don't see him in your inventory or loot pack, DON'T RE ANY GODDAMNED L8 WEAPONS. You will not beat the damage or EPS of this nice-ass reward blaster with any loot in this game, exceptional or not. Supposedly the Rebels have a Borstel doppleganger in the form of the Incom Tri-Cannon...either way, stop wasting these weapons...at least, stop wasting the GOOD ones.
Do I really have to repeat myself on the drain part again? Same crap applies - 2k or under. Mass, 27k or under, the lower, the better.
For Effs, .64x or higher pre-RE are keepers.
For refire, stick with .40x as your guide (you won't find many .39x L8s, but they do exist). Usually these will be your main gun, so you want it as close to about .37x as possible.
EPS is covered by the Borstel. If you don't have one, get one.
Reactors:
There's really only one type you have to look out for - the Kuat RCT-Z. These babies can have gen rates into the 3xxxx-4xxxx range, providing enough juice for a POB to run EO4, WO4, and CO4 without having to even touch reactor overload. If you get one of these wunder-reaktors (not a misspelling), try to find a reactor with a mass of around 23-24k to go with it.
Shields:
The Tier 4 reward shield is pretty much the end-all-be-all of this category. No loot will beat the shield's HP post-RE, which makes your job a LITTLE easier.
Stats to keep in mind: Drain: 2200 and lower Mass: 28k and lower Regen: 14+
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L9 Guns: Mass: keep anything under 40k, but shoot for 35k.
Drain: Keep anything under 2000. While it is possible to get under 1900, it is much harder since most people sell their L9 guns to that awful chassie dealer.
Damage: Ideally, a min damage of 2300 to 2400. Shoot for 3300 to 3500 for max damage.
Effectiveness mod: anything over .6xx is a keeper.
Refire: keep anthing under .33x
EPS: anything under 24.x is a keeper, but you can get really close to 20.0 if you have insane patience.
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Next - the heavy-hitters, the L10s.
Message Edited by CommTampers on 05-19-200605:34 PM
Message Edited by CommTampers on 05-22-200601:06 PM
Lieutenant Bon ~ Sabre 4 ~ Captain of the Midnight Blue ~ Field Doctor
L10 engines used to be engines capable of 120+ speeds post-RE. Sadly, those days are gone - the Devs have taken them out. That doesn't mean these things still aren't useful.
Pretty much everything is static in relation to the L6s, with only the masses, YPRs, and speeds being different.
Mass - keep anything under 45k YPR - anything at or over 75.x (to make 80.0 you need a min of 75.5). 80 pre-RE is the suggested minimum for a turnfighter jockey. Speed - preferably as close to 90 as possible - you need about a 94 to make near 100, a theoretical 99.9 engine would make 105.89 (possible 105.9) top speed.
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Shields:
L10 shields - They used to be only viable in POBs, but that has been changed since the crafted elite shields have been buffed to provide nearly 10k f/b protection. Since then, some pilots have been able to put them to good use in heavies like the KSE Firespray, B-Wing, Krayt, and possibly the TIE Bomber. Running front adjust can keep lower level player weapons from punching through since the damage reduction was increased for PvP. That being said:
Mass - anything in the low 40s. Drain - as close to or under 2000 as you can get HP - look for 25-2600 and higher (it'll be difficult to find better, trust me) Regen - 16 and higher
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Weapons:
The big kahunas - ANOTHER zone where I see a lot of bad REing. Just because you get ten of these things doesn't mean you should RE them - use this as a benchmark:
Drain - 2k and lower...again... Mass - low 40s Min Damage - 2600 is a good floor. 2700 is even better. Beamrails have been known to have max around 2800, though they are rare values from the starmap quest. Max Damage - 4000 and higher. Beamrails have been known to drop with 4900 max damage. Effs - don't get rid of any .7xx weapons, the higher and closer to .8xx, the better. Armek Elites, Beamrails, and Hoersh & Kessel Modified Elite "Scorchers" have high vs shields needed to break .8xx post RE. The Hoershe & Kessel doubles as the only source for keeper vs. armor values, enough to break .8xx post RE. EPS - you want under or as near to 30.0 as you can get Refire - around .400 or lower (lowest I've seen and REed with is .395)
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Capacitors:
Since the weapon overloads were fixed, L10 capacitors have become very popular in multi-gun bombers, like the Bwing and Krayt, etc. Running CO4 on one of these permits you to better handle multiple L8 and L10 guns on weapon overload 4. Don't use this on a POB because the Elite Crafted and the Mining Grade Crafted caps can break 2000 energy and 100 recharge.
Drain: anything under 1k Mass: low 40s, mid 30s. Energy: the higher the better, don't settle for less than 1300. If you fail to break 1500, it's doing a job easily doable by a L6 or 8 capacitor. Regen: get one that's 55.x or higher. 56.7 is enough to break 60 after the RE bonus.
Message Edited by CommTampers on 05-19-200605:35 PM
Message Edited by CommTampers on 05-22-200604:00 PM
Message Edited by CommTampers on 01-25-200702:13 PM
Message Edited by CommTampers on 01-25-200702:14 PM
Lieutenant Bon ~ Sabre 4 ~ Captain of the Midnight Blue ~ Field Doctor
Hey Jo, Why Shouldn't I Just Use Shipwright-Made Blasters
It seems some people seem to operate under the ground game assumption that "more damage is always better."
Well, yeah - but it's done a bit differently in the void. Damage in space gets processed through the effectiveness of a weapon.
Naturally, when you're REing, for effectiveness, you want to look at specialized weapons. These would be any weapons with the names "Ion" and "Disruptor." These usually mean you're going to see a LOT better vs. stats for their given area of expertise. The reason it makes sense to get some REed weapons is that you pay a BIG price for using the crafted versions of these weapons.
Sure, you might get a .750 Ion or Disruptor, but you're gonna get about a .250 for armor. I don't know about you, but I don't like spending more than about 30 seconds on a fighter per kill, and using a weapon like this would be torture.
REed weapons alleviate this by making the effectiveness stat comprehensive based on the loot you use. If you RE an Ion Cannon and a Disruptor together, you get a weapon that's (more or less) equally as effective against armor and shielding. All of the benefits, none of the drawbacks, if you will.
"But what the hell do the numbers mean?" you might ask.
They're percentages.
For comparison's sake, let's take an L7 and L6 weapon.
The L6 has the following stats:
1800-2700, .680/.680
From the damage, let's take an average of the two. That's 2250.
Now, we take that 2250 (an average, each shot could fluctuate wildly) and calculate 68% of it. So, on average, our theoretical L6 weapon would be doing 1530 damage per hit at 68% efficiency - not bad for a gun that might weigh under 10k.
Now, for the L7.
Let's assume it's made with a Boltdriver, so a good stat range is:
1980-3071, .600/.600
Let's also assume that the theoretical pilot in question only did a LITTLE legwork in finding the parts for this RE; not really taking his time.
Average damage would be 2525.5. Running that through the .600 effectiveness, we come up with a figure of 1515.3.
HUH?!? How is it an L7 weapon is getting its ass kicked by an L6 that weighs about 4-5k less. In short, damage ain't everything, take ALL stats into account.
Now, for academic reasons, lets run a SW-made L9 blaster (meaning equalized effectiveness) through the ringer:
2100-3500, .450/.450 (Never used a SW L9, so I'm just guesstimating)
2100+3500 = 5600/2 = 2800
2800 * .45 = 1260 avg. damage
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I don't quite know how to factor in refire, but obviously an L7 would ALWAYS beat the L6 there. You might get an extra shot out every five seconds with an L7 versus an L6, but hopefully this impresses on you that a higher level doesn't always mean higher performance.
NOTE: I also believe that Weapon Overload [3, in particular], in addition to increasing damage by 30%, also increases a weapon's effectiveness by 30% as well. So always keep that in mind when REing as well. On a .680, a 30% boost would give you a .884. That'd be an "ouch" any way you slice it.
Then factor in what happens with L10s, which can get above .75x pre-RE. My .832/.809 2950-5237 turns into a 3835-6808.1 1.081/1.051 monster after WO3.
Not only will 100% of the damage commute, but I'll get an extra 8.1 and 5.1% boost added ONTO the WO3 values, making the weapon in essence a 4145-7360 weapon against shielding, and a 4030-7155 vs. armor.
In PvP, only 75% of that damage would translate, but with this L10, I'd only NEED one shot, regardless of the target. In essence, it's like having a Mk1 Spacebomb launcher with unlimited ammo that shoots constantly at .372 with an EPS of 29.1.
To my knowledge, it's quite possibly the finest and deadliest starship weapon in the game, and I have it lent out to the person who gave me the weapon that was primarily integral to its design. Oh yeah, it weighs 39.1k, too - so it WOULD be possible to mount on a Heavy TIE or Heavy Fighter.
Happy flying, Rebels.
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Okay, rather than just bumping this, I might as wellput a little tip up each time I do.
Did you know?
Engines might be disabled after you set up for a hyperspace jump, but boosters aren't. Set them to light before you enter the 5-1 countdown and you'll have max thrust during the jump.
Also, when coupled with the fact that there's a fixed hyperspace "exit" point in each system, one could use this to their advantage when trying to escape an unbalanced PvP engagement.
It's far easier to close on someone at a full stop than someone at 1400+ kph.
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Okay - saw one today that really made me scream out in agony:
A P.O.S. L6 engine with a 72.5 post-RE pitch. That had to be a 69.75xx pre-RE.
The extra sting? It came from a SW in ICE who told me "I don't care about money for those kinds of parts."
EXAMINE YOUR GODDAMNED LOOT, PEOPLE.
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Pretty much all SWs are equal. The only thing that sets most apart are their resource stocks. Tapes haven't diffused into the game quickly enough yet, and SWs have like seven different stats that have their own experimentation bonuses. [Edit by Bon: since this thread, CAs have been added to the shipwright skill set]
Whenever I'm looking for a component, I always do the mouseover-dance in the vendor search (when I need a SW-crafted item or crate of CM/missiles), giving my business to whomever has the cheapest component that fits my desires.
Modest Shipwright A could have just as good of a component (and even sometimes better), than Elite Shipwright B, usually for a lot cheaper. All you have to do is look.
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Okay, evidently some people still don't know how REing works, exactly.
Quite frankly, I don't blame you - it took me about a week to get the particulars down as well.
Simply put, REing is the process of mating similar parts together to create a part that excels (albeit not by an overly appreciable amount) over the stats of their original parts. Think of them as Frankensteinian Ship Components.
The Newbie's Guide to REing
1. Starting at the very beginning, each component (unless they're crafted) has both an equipment (i.e. usage/certification) level and a reverse engineering level. 9 times out of 10, this level is the same, yet sometimes there are components which have non-matching levels. The Mandalmotors DXR-4 Reactor is a good example, as it's a Level 4 Cert reactor with an RE level of 5.
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2. Once you find a piece of loot that seems to be worth REing, you have to go about finding mates for it. One thing you should ask yourself when you find one of these rare pieces of good/decent loot is - "what should I look to improve here?"
If, for instance, the item in question is an L4 reactor with a 13500 gen rate, it's pretty safe to say you're not going to find much better. HOWEVER, maybe the reactor weighs 6k. In which case, you should probably look for a lower mass L4 in the low 4000s on the bazaar and vendor search (as far as I know, no one has officially mapped a full looted component list - SOE SHOULD, but probably won't). After finding a piece with low mass and high regen, you MIGHT want to go about looking for one with high hp/armor to give you a little protection in PvE from being disabled, but it's optional. To be nice, for the one "junk" reactor you need, hit up the bazaar for a real piece of crap. Don't use another 13k L4 as your filler simply because you had it lying around.
Also, there is no shoving a smaller peg into a bigger hole in REing. You can't pair an RE8 with an RE10 - only RE8s will mate with RE8s and vice versa for RE10s. If this were allowed, you'd have 5000-damage L10s weighing 900 mass. It doesn't work this way.
Also, if you see a component on the bazaar which DOESN'T have an RE level at the bottom, it's not bugged - it has already been REed. I mention this because if you're new, you're not looking for this, and you'll THINK you've found a KICKASS part, only to be told by a SW that you wasted your money because the part has already been REed and can't be used AGAIN.
Here's another misconception - REing is not reversible - it is PERMANENT WITH A CAPITAL **PER** - there are no "oopsies" - once a SW clicks "OK" on the RE tool, it's FINAL. There IS NO GOING BACK, which is why I'm hoping to convey a sense of finality here.
And this myth still pervades - YOU DO NOT NEED EXACT SIMILAR BRAND ITEMS TO RE. Have two RE2 Caps of different brands? Go wild.
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3. Probably the biggest question revolving around REing besides wanting to know the particulars, is people wanting to know just how much they'll benefit from it.
REing improves a component by a small average, either increasing or decreasing a stat (depending on which direction is beneficial) by 1-6%, depending on the RE level of the component.
As for the brass tacks, the bonuses are as follows: RE=1%, RE2&3=2%, RE4&5=3%, RE6&7=4%, RE8&9=5%, RE10=6%. These can be found using any calculator with a memory function (even though memory is only useful for stats involving a subtraction of any sort).
Obviously stats like mass and Energy Per Shot (EPS) on weapons adjust downward, while damage, regen, and effectiveness stats adjust upward. The only stat which is NOT affected by REing (and hasn't been for some time), is Reactor Drain. So, once again, when looking to RE a part that will drain power, look for the lowest you can find.
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And just because I want to hammer this home...here's a case study on a relatively complicated part - an L8 blaster.
Let's assume you have one of the L8 reward blasters (either the Borstel Disruptor or Incom 'Tri-Cannon'). This weapon will cover your hp/armor (when new), both min/max damage, and EPS. That's five stats you no longer have to worry about out of the four remaining on the weapon.
So, in an easier-to-read format:
HP - Covered by the Borstel/Incom (around 700hp when brand new) Armor - Covered by the Borstel/Incom (likewise) Drain - Theoretical #1 1800.0 drain L8/RE8 Min Damage - Covered by the Borstel/Incom (usually around 2387) Max Damage - Covered by the Borstel/Incom (usually around 3692) Eff vs. Shields - Theoretical #2 .650VS Eff vs. Armor - Theoretical #3 .660VA Energy Per Shot - Covered by the Borstel/Incom (typically a nice cap-friendly 14.1) Refire - Theoretical #4 .395 (this is about as good as an L8 gets)
Using these figures, modifying them by a 5% (.05 on a calculator, not .5) bonus (either up or down, depending on the stat), we would end up with a final product of 735 armor/hp, 1800 drain (remember this is bugged), around 2506-3876 damage, .682VS/.693VA, 13.4EPS, and about a .371-.372 refire. Not fabulous - but it blends the best of five worlds.
Okay, in total, we have five weapons to craft what we'd WANT this weapon to turn into. We still need three. In most cases, you'd go out and find three L8 junkers...but...
...if you're "artistic," you might want to go out and find two L8 junkers and one brand which creates a specific firing or shot-type effect. There is a post that describes these shot types in greater detail, and there are enough variations that I don't know them by heart. When you do find this "pretty" part, make sure you tell the SW you want it put in the tool first.
Hopefully this clears up some confusion and further waste of good loot.
Every single part he gives has the chance of being exceptional pieces - the L8/RE8 engine and L10/RE10 blaster at the end are arguably the best, though. The L8 engine is the only way nowadays that you're going to get a chance at a 9x.x L8. The L10 can get as high as 4600+ as well as having a respectable .7xx vs. Shields value.
The L8 armor pieces should make a POB owner (or possibly heavy-fighter flier) happy.
The L8/RE7 shield, if you do enough legwork, should RE quite nicely as well and provide a nice little traveling piece if you decide to do other squadrons, since having a good and low-cost shield drain-wise is VERY nice for Tier 3 missions. 1900ish SW-made shields are nice, but I'd rather have 1800hp @ 2000-2200 drain than 1900hp at 3400 drain. It'd mean the difference between being able to use one and two blasters, most likely.
KundoJet wrote: OK, weird RE question... I've got a number of components with a component level of X, but an RE level of Y. Mostly this is crappy Lvl 10 components (like capacitors) with an RE of 5 and no good stats to speak of. But some of them are Lvl 6 components with an RE of 8 (I think that's right, I can't get ingame to check in more detail). How do these work? With what components should I mate them?
And thanks again, Jotun - awesome thread, and you're right - you'd never make Corr, sadly. Perhaps we should breed you with a Caamasi?
These components can actually be subject to a nice, yet not necessarily beneficial phenomenon.
The L10/RE5 L5/RE10s are specific capacitors. Other examples would be the Event Horizon J-77 engine with an L4/RE2 rating. The Mandalmotors DXR-4 to the best of my knowledge is L4/RE5.
Nothing changes with these - you mate them with their specific RE levels. HOWEVER, in the case of the L5/RE10 cap, if you were to make that the first item placed in the tool, the product would be a Level 5 part with Level 10 stats. Not terribly useful, as even an extremely low mass L10 cap will be in the mid 30k range and not terribly conducive to fighter-mounting.
Where something like this would be beneficial is with the Nym's Starmap Protecto-Net shield (L8/RE7). If one were to put one of the corresponding L7/RE7s into the tool first, the resultant level of the end component would be Level 7, not Level 8, which would enable a pilot to use it one full skill level earlier than usual.
So, these parts CAN be used to ones advantage...sometimes.
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Zhagadska wrote:
the shield surprised me since i've gotten better crafted ones, much less looted ones.
I've found the only way to get a good Protecto is to mate it with other Protectos, then look for a low mass and low drain - the rewards seem to do rather well on regen, but as I've said before - Cap to Shield Shunt pretty much invalidates the value of regen in a clutch situation.
Using just one shield leaves a lot to be desired, yeah. Don't fly with these things before REing, either - because the instant you land the wildly inaccurate hp values will average out and you'll be left with, pretty much, a useless part.
The main advantage to REing (a good) one is that MkIV SW-crafted shields suck down WAY too much juice (again, it's not their fault), but the difference between 18-2200 drain and 3400 could mean being able to mount a second weapon and/or amenities like a CM launcher.
Also, L7 REed can be under 16k and still have 17-1800hp - something SW shields can't really accomplish.
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[edit: I can't get these links to work, so afterwards there will be a link to his post for the links.]
Links to my old Excel spreadsheets for REing (zeroed out, yet still have hot-coded cells):
For those of you who are Excel-inclined, the formulae driving the cells are located in white text one or two cells right of the MAX/MIN data column. Highlight them and you should be able to see. Obviously - if you were to retool these, the Weapons would be the best place to start, as it offers the greatest cross-section.
These sheets currently give you post-RE reactor drain values, but anyone who's into REing knows this has been busted since late November.
Oh yeah, and to potential newbies reading this thread...
STOP PUTTING UP YOUR STARTER SHIP EQUIPMENT FOR SALE ON THE BAZAAR. NO ONE WANTS THEM - DELETE THEM, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
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Feel free to waste the crap.
But if it's OLD space loot, you might want to take a closer look - most "professional" pilots concur that loot's been stealth nerfed about four times since the introduction of JTL. The BEST stuff is Nov/Dec-timeframe loot, back before there were enough Master Shipwrights and great resources for them to truly hate the quality of REed parts.
The most recent nerfs weren't "nerfs" per se as they were "adjustments." You can still get uber loot, but the nerf comes in the form that the RANGE is now so broad that you'll usually get crap.
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Also, to the collectors who lovingly charge 11,111,111 to 99,999,999 for their loot on storage vendors...
...if you're not willing to sell or trade for said loot, please do not publicly list them on the vendor search function. Thank you.
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Also, in this day and age of decent yet heavy SW-crafted engines, I get asked a lot:
"What's the lowest mass possible on an Lx [insert type here]?"
And the answer I always give is "I don't know." I don't even think the Devs do, to be honest...and asking them would just give them the incentive to mess with the ranges again.
Every time I think I have the lowest mass range pegged on a specific component, someone comes along and posts an RE that shatters my previous conceptions. The general consensus is that these rare pieces are to be considered "1 in 1000s," or meaning you get one exceptional piece per thousand parts looted. Of course, treat this like a lottery scratcher ticket - it's POSSIBLE you could win 10,000 dollars twice by buying two tickets, but just not very friggin' likely. The odds of looting an exceptional part (not just a decent/good one) are FAR higher than that of looting a Black Sun Helmet.
Case in point - I USED to think the lowest mass range for L6 engines was in the 90xx range because I hadn't looted lower, but looted several that hugged that minimum. Then Tomo, the b*stard, has to come along and post a picture of his 79xx post-RE L6. Cut to me shaking my fist in rage at having to now "keep up with the Rainer's." As God is my witness, I will hand that man his hat in pre-nerf REing.
Further, I'm pretty certain the minimums are different for different KINDS of loot. I've personally looted and REed an 9xxx mass L8 armor sheet, but I don't think ANYONE has ever looted a 9xxx mass L8 engine, shield, or weapon. That's not to say it's not POSSIBLE, just not very likely.
Simply put, Exceptional/Legendary (to borrow the former credit-demanding moniker) loot DOES exist in space, there's just absolutely no way to tell it apart from all the crap unless you're experienced in the reading the stats, at least for now. That's why I posted this thread.
I've posted several times in the Pilot forums asking for the yellow-text treatment or a sort of filter built into the Chassis Dealer that will force someone to CONFIRM their decision to sell a marked "1 in 1000" piece, but haven't heard anything back from a red-name, just Tomo's replies that he'll pass it on.
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Also, some of you might notice the newest strategy guide put out for Total Experience HAS an entire list of space loot in the back of it.
Besides giving you all the names and telling you WHY you can't loot Sienar weaponry from Rebel ships, the values are all off. According to the guide, ANY weapon shouldn't go higher than 66% effectiveness (or .660 pre-RE), but anyone who's looted enough L10s knows that's a bunch of crap.
Another thing the guide neglects to list are RE levels. As Celebriel pointed out earlier - there ARE pieces that have a usage level that doesn't match their RE level - this guide doesn't differentiate those.
Also, there are some names of loot in the guide I've never personally seen before, and the guide DOES NOT cover the Starmap awards, merely the factional grind rewards.
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Also, that reminds me of another thing I was going to post about.
I've ALSO been asked the question:
"Where can I loot a good Lx [usually blaster, engine, shield]?"
And of course, the answer I'm forced to give is "I don't know mixed with anywhere," which usually garners a response of "?", "huh?", or "screw u."
There's a good reason for the vaguery, though - looting in space is kinda like playing darts blindfolded. Ever since a patch a while ago, loot was made "tier-specific," but that's kind of a confuzzeling term, so I'll try to straighten it out...
"Tier-specific" essentially means that you will GENERALLY loot parts given the level of the prey you're hunting.
So, if you're hunting Tier 4s, expect to see a GENERAL range of loot ranging anywhere from about L6-L10, with the majority of the parts you loot being 7&8s. This isn't always the case, but Tomo, the pilot corr, authored a thread a while ago concerning the dropping of L9/L10 parts in Deep Space. The results were quite interesting, to say the least. Of course, don't take this to mean you'll never get L1-L3 loot from T4/5s - you probably will. As I said - like playing darts blindfolded. The higher the kill, the less likely you loot stuff you don't want.
But as for the best ships to kill for loot, specifically in levels you'll be able to use, stick with Tier 3s. Tier 3s seem to be the centerline for everything. You won't loot L10s from them, but I've found they're perfect sources for random loots ranging from levels 1-8, with a tendency to give mostly L4-L6 loot. They seem to have the widest range, though I can't say I've ever looted an L10 weapon or engine from them - those seem to be reserved exclusively for T4/T5 ships.
And finally, there's no ship that gives *more* of a specific loot type over another. The old story about Black Suns dropping more weapons than any other ship class in the game is a myth that still pervades today. Looting is random. Be happy enough that the L9 DI you'd NEVER use is worth about as much as a quenker mission, and it took you only 45 seconds to get it vs. 15-20 minutes roundtrip on Dantoolagged.
Also, remember my previous post about the "1 in 1000" loot. Just because you loot an L6/8 engine doesn't mean that L6/8 engine is going to be up to your standards.
A piece of advice from me is to NEVER LOOK AT YOUR LOOT UNTIL YOU LAND. Call it superstition on my part, but I've always gotten the best loot when I've trusted the loot gods' Divine judgement. It seems whenever I decide to "check on my stuff," it's all crap, and REMAINS crap until I land. The only reason I open my inventory is to check to see how much I have in it if I'm having a particularly good night.
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Oh yeah.
If you're going to be buying a ship like the Bel-22 from someone, INSIST on them telling you the chassis score before they hand over the deed. You don't want to get a 10/10 chassis from someone for full price. I wonder how many people have been ripped off this way.
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Well, as I've said numerous times before - run the Starmap quest if you haven't.
All I know is the Krayt I'm working on is going to be like having the ability to kill anything in less than 30 seconds.
My third L10 isn't quite ready for prime time yet (some numbers are decent, but mass definitely needs work), but if I were to RE it and stick it with my other two on a Krayt...using WO3 I'd be putting out 43342.6 damage per second.
God only knows what it'd be after WO4, which I'll probably be able to use with this L7 reactor I have ready for REing. So damn light I'll be able to put it on a JSF in place of a secondary weapon, and run CO/WO/EO4 without any overdraws.
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On today's episode of "Jotun's Aneurysm," we present a new character, a semi-well-known Shipwright who never answers his emails or /tells...or at least doesn't for me, and probably won't after today.
Wacky hijinks ensue as blood spurts from the nose and ears of a man as he finds yet another wasted part on the galaxy's bazaar.
Can any of you students tell which part that was REed on there probably SHOULDN'T have been? I mean, it wasn't even REed with one of the HANDILY available post-nerf L6s. Furthermore, a MkIV (or even MkIII) crafted engine would probably perform better in this situation.
WARNING: The following contains some of my trademark late-night angst, and should not be read by those who can't just let things slide...
A small post directed at any of the following:
Don't b*tch when I or any other well-equipped pilot comes and starts killing things faster than you can at a spawn or POI. That's life, eternal bliss not included.
Yes, I know it's annoying, but unlike Krayts or other ground-based high-demand loot magnets, you might notice space is PRETTY big, and targets are NOT exactly hard to find. In fact, the game will supply them FOR you if you STILL have trouble. It's because of this billion-layer redundancy that you will NEVER see me shed a tear for KSing someone in space.
Yes, I'm aware some of you might have trouble engaging more than one ship at a time since you haven't done a complete duty mission since Tier 2, but shucks, don't you think it's time to learn? I mean damn, when you Ace, people might actually think you have some flying ability to go along with that nifty POB ship, jacket, and title!
This stems from a pilot earlier on saying he was reporting a friend of mine to the CSRs because my friend was killing ships of a particular static spawn faster than he could.
Simply put, space doesn't have another set of rules than the ground. The same rules apply - whoever does the most damage wins loot rights. Just realize, in the time you're sending hate /tells, /launchmissile-ing, and writing that harassment report that's just going to refer you to the Article 7906 (at least, I THINK that's it) in the Knowledge Base, you could've probably found ANOTHER similar spawn and gone about your killin'/farmin'/lootin' in peace.
I've been a victim of this as well, though when you're able to outdamage an organized group of five all trying to KS you, I'm not sure whether you can still keep the "victim" mantle.
All I can say, is that it's a pretty sweet fruit, being right. For the past six months, I've pretty much been a silent laughing stock. "Hey, there's Jotun, the 'space guy.'" "That idiot thinks he can make millions in space, lol!" "Heh - hey, let's go kill some nightsisters and try to get an Exceptional T21, leave the twitch gaming to Mr. Flyboy." Now, I get gmails and /tells from the same people who used to KS and TRY to KS me in the 'yard when I was trying to get four -9 pearls for my Jedi (which I've since gimped because hanging out in front of starports playing a five-hour long game of 'LOOKITMEEEE' ain't my thing) - so go figure.
Well, I guess that's my real "reward" - the KSers of the past are now potential space newbies, all the Exceptional weapons are worthless now (including my ADKed 25 million credit PH unfortunately, but I really don't care about that anymore), and the Devs won't stop nerfing Jedi until they can't solo NPC Jedi anymore, because the 10-or-more +2x SEAs on the trade forums per day were making their CURB PUBLICLY look like a farce.
Of course, while I was probably being laughed at for being the "space geek/nerd/idiot/whatever," I was crafting an Exceptional Flying H-Bomb with a pilot seat, and now I have to worry about people reporting me because I had the borderline clairvoyance to know that space was a pretty damned good thing to hedge my earning future in pre-CURB. So to those who would give me a ration of sh*t for being GOOD at the profession I chose to perfect...well, I'd like to lapse into something a little crude here, but I've kept this SOMEWHAT clean so far...so I'll just say "nyah" and blow a rather noisy raspberry.
So if you're one of these people who think or feel that I (or any other experienced pilot) should relinquish a spawn just because YOU show up (or vice versa)...go read KB Article 7906. SOE's made space easy enough with ROTW, but that doesn't mean they made life any easier.
Also, my previous information regarding the "costs" of certain droid programs has turned out to be incorrect. There are also NEGLECTED *SECONDARY* costs
WO3, which is currently understood to be bugged, SHOULD raise the drain of the weapon by 333%, and raise the EPS of a weapon by 333%, as well. [Even after publish 27 when the devs fixed WO3, his predictions are still quite true with power management.]
The reason it's BUGGED is because it current does TWO functions - the Overload and TUNING part. To put it bluntly, if/when this is fixed, you're gonna see a lot less three-gun ships flying around.
For example:
Johnny Theoretical has an L8 reward blaster. Johnny ain't too bright, so he just focuses in on just efficiency and refire, largely neglecting everything else except wanting under 30k mass. "I've got the mass, I'm in a Heavy X-Wing/Krayt!" Stupid, stupid Johnny...
Johnny gets the following:
29,500 mass 2350 drain (I was merciful with Poor Johnny) .371 refire Standard 13.4eps refire
Well, Johnny loves his new gun. With his 13500 gen L3 reactor, he can fit three blasters on his X-Wing, and using a light L2 or L4 cap, power all three without trouble.
Then the nasty Devs come in and fix WO3, and Johnny's world goes to Hell.
For academic purposes, let's assume Johnny's Heavy X-Wing or Krayt has three identical L8 blasters like the ones above. Impossible in reality, but this is just an example.
Let's analyze the two major effects - those on drain and EPS.
Johnny's 2350 drain magically becomes 333% higher...that's...7825.5. Ouch. And that's before Johnny realizes he has THREE of those puppies. That's 23476.5. Damn.
"Oh well," Johnny thinks to himself, "I'll just get a bigger reactor!"
Well, therein lay the rub, as Shakespeare would it. I, being a tad more crass, would just call it a "hard, cold b*tch." And I'm betting 99% of pilots who RE haven't been taking an eventual WO3 fix into account. I have. [edit: WO3 has been fixed since Kayl posted this]
When WO3 is fixed, only those with light and 20k+ regen reactors will have a chance in hell of running WO3. Sure, you can get 20-40k+ RCT-Z L8s and Vortex Mk3s, but you're gonna have to hunt for low masses, and the reactor probably WILL be taking the place of one of your former weapons, ESPECIALLY in the case of the RCT-Z, since L8s seem to bottom out around 20-21k mass.
And I haven't even started in on EPS yet. Simply put, following an eventual/possible WO3 nerf, Borstel/Incom blasters are going to become VERY popular. People should start saving low-EPS L7, 9s, and 10s NOW. Not later. NOW.
Because even though the EPS on an REed Borstel/Incom is 13.4, after WO3 is fixed, that will jump to 44.622 (that same 333% increase). That L2/L4 (even L6) cap ain't lookin as powerful now, is it?
Well, thankfully, we have CO4 to the rescue!
But not so fast. As of NOW, it doesn't seem that CO1-4 carries with it a drain penalty. But it would not shock me if with a WO3 fix, comes a CO1-4 "adjustment." If the Devs add a drain penalty, people could be in trouble if they didn't hunt for low-drain (500s-700s) on their caps.
As for the CO1-4 bonuses, let's assume Johnny's using a 44.0/1100 energy L4 cap to power his ship's weapons. What will that turn into when used with the four different overloads?
(Evidently there's a "maximum" stat for caps in both energy and regen. I honestly don't know what it is)
CO1 - 66 regen, 1375 energy CO2 - 88 regen, 1650 energy CO3 - 132 regen, 1925 energy (Johnny would need at least this to carry three Borstels, plus as far as I know, the max regen might be 100.0) CO4 - 176 regen, 2200 energy
...gotta be running out of space...so...
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...ah, that's better.
Anyway, remember the SECONDARY factors I talked about earlier?
Johnny was enjoying his DPS so much, he neglected to concentrate on mass, not only on his weapons, but his armor and shields as well!
They're all around 30k (or in some real-world cases, higher)!
As I said in the last post, we're assuming all of Johnny's WEAPONS are 29.5k, because I was feeling nice.
Okay, so Johnny wants to keep those weapons no matter what. Sure thing, Johnny, but out of the 180k mass ceiling you have on that Heavy X-Wing, you've just used up 88500 of it. 91500k left!
Alright, Johnny followed my advice and got himself a Nym reward engine. He REed it fine (I can still wipe the floor with his theoretical ass, though), but it has an 1825 drain and a still relatively-high 28.5k mass. Baaaad Johnny. No more PvP for you! 63000k mass left.
That 1825 drain then becomes 6077.25 (yes, hundredths DO count, even if you can't see them on the stat window). And what did we say weapons were using WO3? Oh yeah. 23476.5. Assuming my math is correct (and it is), that's 29553.75. Just for a fixed WO3 and EO3, not even COUNTING other crap yet. Ouch.
Now let's go further into Johnny's X-Wing. His prized reward shield weighs 29.5k (getting under 30k was the only thing Johnny cared about), so that's 33500 mass left. Damn. Getting cramped in here?
Oh, that's not all. He didn't take drain into account, since "HEY, WO3 IS AWESOME, THEY'LL NEVER FIX IT! LOL!" Can someone play "Taps" for poor Johnny already? Being nice to Johnny again, I'll say by complete chance he got 2900 drain. Still lower than a SW-crafted...but sheesh, still high. That's now 32453.75 drain. For just the shield, weapons, and engines.
OH YEAH! Almost forgot. WO3 doesn't just effect your PRIMARY weapons, it effects your secondary and DEFENSIVE weapons as well! So lets say Johnny's a cheap-ass missile hound, and keeps a Mk2 ImRec launcher (~6000 mass/1400 drain) on his H-X, along with a simple 900 mass/950 drain [chaff launcher]. Those now become 6062 and 3163.5 drain, respectively. Tacked onto our current total, that's now 41679.25 drain total...and while we're wrapping up, let's assume, for sake of poor Ma Theoretical, that he has a pre-nerf DI with 500 drain. That's 42179.25 drain, all told, if Johnny wants to keep flying the way he is now, with no changes.
Now, how in the HELL is he gonna get that much power, assuming he only has about 30k mass left?
Well, first, his old 13000 gen reactor ain't gonna cut it anymore. Even with RO4, 13000 doesn't get anywhere NEAR what he needs. For the uninitiated, RO4 boosts gen rate by a factor of 1.9 (90%), so 13000=24700. Plus it necessitates a trip to DS to fix.
RO3 gives a mod of 1.6 (60%), and is probably going to be the program of choice, because weird sh*t can happen using RO4 (intended stuff, you're not supposed to be able to boost a reactor that high, and you might find weird things happening).
Let's assume Johnny loots a 19k gen Vortex Mk3 L7. He's ELATED - "ALL MY PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED, I'LL BE 31337 AGAIN!11!1!11!." Barring the mass (which really isn't important right now), it'll RE to 19760. Not very awe-inspiring, is it? Anyway, with RO3/4 respectively, that comes out to 31616 and 37544 regen. We're gettin' close...but we ain't home yet. With a 22000 L7 reactor REed to 22880, those numbers become 36608 and 43472. Yay! Johnny'd have enough with RO4...now...all he needs is one of those reactors. With Mr. 19760, Johnny'd have to ditch a weapon, and he doesn't want that...that's the only way Rebels can ever hit anything! (j/k to all the crackshots)
I've been playing since five days after JTL went live. I've looted maybe...four of these class of reactors power-wise. I've bought quite a few more, including one that will give me plenty of power for any ship/loadout, from Krayt to JSF, at only 10.56k mass - I'll never ever have to TOUCH RO4. No, it's not for sale, and never ever will be - selling it would be like selling my liver to someone - I wouldn't live for long afterward.
So, in short (after this long ass thread), start paying attention to ALL your loot's stats (not what you deem important RIGHT THEN), or you WILL wake up one day and find your world turned upside down.
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Just tested my Tactical Nuclear Weapons tonight for the first time...otherwise known as my two .8xx/.8xx L10s, including Mr. 5237.2 Max.
Fired together on a TIE Oppressor testbed in a manual staggerfire, I roasted a Tier 5 gunboat in under 30 seconds (kinda hard to keep count in DS). Granted, it was a railrunner, but it's easy enough to keep turn with an AIed one for that long, too.
Got to put them through some unplanned PvP testing as well...both are based on the H-K Modified Scorcher Elite, so I can't tell which is which unless I only hold one mouse button down, but regardless, I'm sure you could have 5000-strength shields - these weapons wouldn't care. One hit kills, both times. Would've been three, but my very adept cover (since the Oppressor was an extremely-stripped down husk of a ship) scared him off. Not before I bagged his wingwoman, though. And I wouldn't necessarily say "scared off" as much as "used the immense lag of the ISD's lasers to run out his hyperspace clock."
Note to said pilots: P20 got rid of wounds, for God's sake. There's no reason to run anymore. Who knows, you might actually LIKE space PvP, and had you NOT tried to run, you might have been able to bag me tonight for bragging rights - I was in a ship I hate. Give it a shot before complaining to my friend about how he shouldn't target and kill you in an OPEN PVP ZONE. It doesn't cease to be an PvP battlefield at 4am when you feel like popping the ISD just to watch it go BOOM, okay? You pay your Prestige, and ya takes ya chances, capische?
And this was a testbed for an eventual triple-L10 Krayt with an optional L7/L8 turret. I might not have known what it felt like to have a 5000 damage T21, but I'll know what it feels like to have a ship capable of 60000+ DPS (until WO3 is fixed somewhere or sometime down the line).
I still hate Oppressors, though. HATE 'em.
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The 5237.2 has a mass of 39200.1, making it the unofficial best in mass, too.
And for the moment, the planned loadout depends highly on finding a slightly higher VA L10 and another one to bring the mass more in line with around 40k.
No need to worry, though - this will be a strictly PvE ship - it wouldn't be prudent to use in PvP. All I know is that with Speedbird One (my JSF - named after a certain retired airliner's callsign), it took me about 45-55 seconds per T5 gunboat.
With this, it's 25-30. With a three-gun L10 loadout (the third will be a hair under 5k but have a slightly higher min than the 5237.2), that should probably be around 15 seconds. I think I'll just use an L8 as a stopgap in the interim, but first I'd have to get UP to Master Pilot in RSF. But I've been preparing for it for about a month now, so I've just gotta get two L5s REed to make T2 a breeze, then I should be able to solo everything else, including the two-gunboat mission at the end, since I could commute all of Speedbird's equipment into my alt's JSF and fly as I normally would, since there's nothing over L8 on her.
Also, this dual-L10 loadout is WO3-fix-ready. Triple might be a longshot, but I could probably make it work with some sacrifices.
If I see .824VS on some POS L10 RE down the line, I'll hunt him down and kill him IRL, I swear to God/Bob/Vishnu/Shiva/Mohammed/Mickey Mouse. My beloved Wrath might have .830, but .778 pre-RE would be CRIMINAL to waste.
And the extensive knowledge was all passively gained. When you do anything for seven months straight, you tend to get pretty proficient at it.
And I haven't adopted a SW yet (mostly because I haven't figured out how to whittle down the candidates), and I haven't received any interest regarding the reward engine kits, either.
I have a better, lower-mass L7...but that one would have made a 20k+ Vortex Mk3 owner VERY happy come a WO3 fix.
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And I'm sure I'm gonna get people saying - "pfft, Jo's on his high horse again. What should he care how people get their xp?"
I do care, because sitting around and playing "Pot the Clay Pigeon" breeds ignorant pilots, and ignorance begets ignorance. I'd like for at least one percent of "the new breed" to actually know how to handle themselves in space.
As such, the "space scene" on Eclipse is almost nonexistent. The only reason [most] new people are up there now is after seven months of neglect, people are finally seeing they can profit up in space, whereas no one can solo Krayts anymore without a buddy and two glowsticks. That, and they got JTL for free with the expansion.
"But it's not your place to tell me how I level!"
You're right, it isn't. Go on and get Ace without dying or actually challenging yourself. But find me in-game - you'll see I don't wear my Ace title. I wear the jacket, but not the title.
Why?
Because it's meaningless, and the word "Ace" seems to have become synonymous with "doormat" in the past few months. People wear the title who barely earned it themselves (with the obvious exceptions who know full well who they are)...they were present during a mission they had...that's about it. I get people asking me to help on TIER 2 missions (haven't had a Tier 1 request yet, but I've heard others who have been asked for such a thing). I've had people ask me if I have a POB ship so they can SKIP their T2/T4 DUTY missions. I mean, seriously - people will grind mission after mission after mission ad infinitum for months on end for a glowstick but not f*cking do an hour-long duty mission?
I mean, why - you've become so lethargic from a diet of function-key macro gaming that working on a third dimension is too daunting?
I mean, COME ON! Is it REALLY so much of a goddamned imposition to learn how to fly? Or rather, I have a sense of humility and realism...is it really so much of a hardship to BOTHER to learn how to move a mouse around in an efficient enough fashion so you actually have something to have a swell of pride in when you put a title above your head for a reason other than being an Ace at coercing someone to do your missions/work for you?
Simply put...
...would YOU be proud to be a title-wearing Ace in such a climate full of players who had their title earned for them by someone else, or an entire NEW group who expect said treatment?
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I've been meaning to write a little article about the rarest loots of all (and no, I don't mean RCT-Zs/Vortex Mk3s with 40k+ gen rates...), but I haven't remembered to screenshot the example I was going to give.
...but I've been asked this a lot:
"What's the best type of weapon?"
It's hard to answer, because as with everything ELSE in this game, "it depends on what you want to use it for."
It's essentially the same as lightsabers - 4th gens might do more damage, but a 3rd gen might be faster and more viable in PvP. The same is true for weapons.
That being said, let's use Johnny Theoretical again (I pick on Johnny, but it's a labor of love...).
Johnny, as we said before, loves his three Incom/Borstel L8 reward blasters. There's only one problem, they're .39x and higher in refire. This works fine in PvE, but in PvP, speed kills.
That's why my pick for best PvP weapon level is L7. L7s can be light enough that you can fit two in the mass it'd take for ONE adequately REed Borstel/Incom, and it tosses a lot of fire out there, and the more bolts in the air, the more likely you're going to hit something. For one-gunners like the Vaksai and RGI, L9s are your peaches (yeah, I know I said these are crap, but I've kinda revised my thinking since then after seeing what's possible in L7s) - you can get them to Borstel-level (and sometimes higher) damage, ~67% effectiveness, and POSSIBLY down into the low .3xx or high .2xx range.
So, simple enough:
If you want to kill gunboats, L8s and 10s are the way to go. If you want to kill PLAYERS, L7s, L9s, and "combos" like L7/L8, L6/L8, and others are the way to go.
Of course, even .25x refires aren't going to help you if you can't centerline your target. Never "overarm" your ships - not ALL X-Wings NEED three weapons. Just because the mount is there doesn't mean you have to USE it.
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Evidently my absence in this thread has caused the demons of the past to reawaken.
Some travesties committed in the past few weeks include:
Is there a price list if all the items are properly REed according to these guidlines?
It's really not advisable to SELL already-REed items. That's one of the points I'm trying to make. People are so incredibly obsessed with gaining the discs to build a ship that's HAD it's day - the Firespray is only really truly VALUABLE to faction-specific Imperial pilots, whose ship roster rounds out at the 170-172k mass Oppressor - only to THEM does the Firespray really make sense to own past intrinsic value merely for the additional mass.
My opinion is that if you're gonna get KSE discs, do it using L1/RE1 parts.
However, getting BACK to the point...
You stand to make far more by putting the item out into the mainstream on a trade forum or storage vendor at a "storage" price like 999999##. Turn the vendor search on, and let people see you have the item - then gauge the value that way by the response.
As for a concrete price point - I personally value un-REed "filler" (meaning pieces that might hold value to someone else, but not me personally) at 100k + Level. For items such as L9 blasters, L10 engines and weapons, which people seem to covet due to their scarcity, higher prices can be warranted - maybe 100k + Level x 3 or 4.
Exceptional pieces I value at a minimum of Level x 100k. TRULY Exceptional pieces (which I'd never sell), would probably be at least double the price for Exceptionals. I personally would never pay more than 2.5 mill for a part, and we'd have to be talking about one HELL of a piece of loot.
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L9s have kinda resurrected themselves from obscurity as of late - the Vaksai, Heavy Starters and RGI, all single-gunners, have given the class a whole new lease on life. Done right, they wouldn't be bad turret weapons either.
The only problem is that as with all odd-leveled loot, exceptionals are spotty. That's a given in ANY case, but it appears to be all the more evident in odd-levels.
Still, for the mass, you'll never beat twin L7s around .650 or higher in effectiveness, manually staggered, firing around .300 for PvP and even mid-scale PvE like duties and railrunner gunboat popping. You can cram two into a JSF/Bel-22 frame for what it'd NORMALLY take to fit ONE well-done L8 mass-wise, leaving room for extras, like a heftier reactor if WO3 ever does get fixed.
I'm still partial to the synched L8/L6 approach, though. Scorcher 3s can be just eeeeeeeeeevil. Especially the one I've got planned.
Addition by Bon: Heavier weapons in single-gun fighters have eclipsed dual-synched guns since EPS is more important and most lighter and medium reactors can now handle WO4 on a single gun.
...I was wondering where that 20k-capable L8 was - now I know.
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Okay, this one hurts, mostly because I had sent a /tell to the builder asking if the part that I wanted (which will become breathtakingly apparent in the next few seconds) was for sale (since it was priced for storage, not for sale).
When the person said no, I automatically assumed - "Oh, well that's okay. They're saving it for a Borstel RE of their own." At least that delusion I could respect.
I'd have paid easily double that insane charge merely for the 23k part that's been wasted. The fact that a Borstel or Tricannon wasn't involved just adds extra sting.
KSE DISCS AREN'T WORTH WASTING PARTS THIS GOOD, GET A FRICKIN' CLUE.
...and will be even after I've moved this thread over to the Pilot forums.
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While it's been made well aware to me as of late that certain players don't give a damn about this thread, I felt compelled to post this to prove it's still SOMEWHAT valid, even as the server devolves even further into lightsaber mania...
Some might look at it and say "what's wrong with it?" Others might look and need to make a run to the restroom.
The only reason I blanked out the name is I've had dealings with the SW in question and didn't exactly feel like plastering him/her on the thread, especially since the person in question had said he/she had read my thread before.
I don't even think Blacksun would've wasted a QID that'd break 100, let alone a 103.9 post.
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The "trigger" I'm talking about is a level at which you cross into a higher Pitch/Yaw/Roll mod for the engine in question. These allow the ship to turn at a higher rate of speed and a smaller diameter the higher the mod.
119.4 crafted engines might have speed, but with 60.x and roundabouts on the mods, only pull in about a 1.0. For an L6 prenerf RE (or a postnerf), you need a minimum of 69.0 pre-RE to achieve 71.8 post-RE, which is the "gate" to a 1.3 mod for PYR. Some people have said that 71.8 is merely a point at which 1.2 gets rounded to 1.3 (like 1.256 or something around that), but I've noticed a difference.
For L8s, ideally you want to shoot for 1.4, which takes either a very high 73.x engine or 74.0+ pre-RE L8 engine. 77.7 and 77.8 post-RE are *known* 1.4 mod-givers.
And the clickies only go so far - what I want to accomplish in the next rendition of the thread on the pilot forums is a breakdown of the categories (like armor, weapons, caps, shields, reactors, and engines), a la the existing Pilot FAQ.
Unfortunately, that'll take some time - but this guide does need revamping since drains are fixed now - and it's not getting as much attention here as it would in the Pilot forum.
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Yes, it's radians of pi. A 1.0 is a circle, a 1.1-2.0+ is a gradually smaller circle.
Theoretically, a 1.3 will take a turn 30% tighter than a 1.0. EO3/4 increases the mod by 30/40%, as it does with the speed. The higher the inate mod, the higher that mod is boosted by the overload command. I don't know if a higher mod has anything to do with lessening the speed penalty inflicted when you stay in a turn for too long, but it appears to - the "dip" when using my L8 seems to be lesser compared to that of using my newest L6.
Some examples:
A solid 1.0 would become a 1.3 with EO3 and a 1.4 with EO4. This is why it's not especially wise to use these things in PvP.
Most people are using prenerf L6s (the unREed mod on the engine itself with 63.2 is a 1.1 mod, I believe) with 1.2 mods, which translates to 1.56 with EO3 and 1.68 with EO4.
A base 1.3 (an L6 post-RE engine with 71.8+) would become 1.69 (that's assuming 1.30000... - a 1.7 might be possible if the engine is in the 72 range post-RE), 1.82 with EO4.
A base 1.4 would become 1.82 with EO3 and 1.96 (possible 2.0 rounded post-mod) with EO4. Were you to get some 75+ pre-RE L8s, it's probably theoretically possible to break into a 2.0+ stock mod with EO4.
A 1.5 (only truly possible with VERY high-level L10 REed engines) would be 1.95 (effectively 2.0) with EO3 and 2.1 under EO4, if the mod even goes past 2.0.
There's no way to see a post-mod rating, which is annoying. Also, going from a crafted engine to an engine that can pull a 1.8 or even a 2.0 mod when overloaded is a pretty big adjustment - it's kinda like going from a '79 Honda Civic to a Ferrari Enzo. Both turn just fine - it's just a question of difference in performance.
Message Edited by CommTampers on 05-24-200606:49 PM
Lieutenant Bon ~ Sabre 4 ~ Captain of the Midnight Blue ~ Field Doctor
Hrm. Decent, but a lot of his stats are either too low compared to what we know can be found, or he gives some wrong advice on some things (level 10 shields only for PoBs? Bull**edit**, I'm using one in an Advanced X-wing ffs, and I still have room for a level 7 reactor, level 8 engine, two level 8 guns and a level 7 gun, and a level 10 front armor piece and a level 8 armor piece.)
Personally I think Richardii's sheet on it is better... you know about it, Bon, on the RS forums.
Mostly, Kayl's stuff seems to be primarily about moaning about people who do crappy REs.
Message Edited by Drez_Mernik on 05-19-200607:01 PM
-=-Rhiana Fox-=-KSE Firespray "Mistress"-=-Queen of Firesprays-=- -=-Rhiana' on the Starsider Server-=-Saffra on the Ahazi Server-=-Rheine on the Chimaera Server-=-
"Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make history!" - Old Bomber Pilot Barroom Chant
Shipwrights need to pay attention to the part about vs. stats. Boggles the mind how many .480/.480 blasters are for sale out there. Much like some select shipwrights finally grasped that reducing consumption gives the same benefit as increasing energy, there are a few that have realized that you can often get better damage output through the vs. stats (which affect every hit) rather than wasting all experimentation on max damage.
Drez_Mernik wrote: Hrm. Decent, but a lot of his stats are either too low compared to what we know can be found, or he gives some wrong advice on some things (level 10 shields only for PoBs? Bull**edit**, I'm using one in an Advanced X-wing ffs, and I still have room for a level 7 reactor, level 8 engine, two level 8 guns and a level 7 gun, and a level 10 front armor piece and a level 8 armor piece.)
Personally I think Richardii's sheet on it is better... you know about it, Bon, on the RS forums.
Mostly, Kayl's stuff seems to be primarily about moaning about people who do crappy REs.
Message Edited by Drez_Mernik on 05-19-200607:01 PM
I am aware that some of his info is out of date, but I plan to insert some updates. You must understand, this is one heavy word count. I had to split the last bit into two posts because of the 60000 character limit per post. For every RE we save from crappieness, an angel gets its wings.
Lieutenant Bon ~ Sabre 4 ~ Captain of the Midnight Blue ~ Field Doctor
Kayl does not have the ability to post here, but has read this thread. I just bumped into him on spacetribe and he asked if I would add a quote on his behalf. Here's what he said:
"1) My legacy was Phoenix, and to the guy who called the data off-stat, 2) I wrote the thread back when it was still unclear what was the best."
Kayl does not have the ability to post here, but has read this thread. I just bumped into him on spacetribe and he asked if I would add a quote on his behalf. Here's what he said:
"1) My legacy was Phoenix, and to the guy who called the data off-stat, 2) I wrote the thread back when it was still unclear what was the best."
I'm not blaming him for it, just stating that people shouldn't take it as hard-fact at this point in time because it was written before it was entirely clear what the best stats were.
Still doesn't take into account the fact that things like level 10 shields aren't just for PoBs.
-=-Rhiana Fox-=-KSE Firespray "Mistress"-=-Queen of Firesprays-=- -=-Rhiana' on the Starsider Server-=-Saffra on the Ahazi Server-=-Rheine on the Chimaera Server-=-
"Fighter pilots make movies. Bomber pilots make history!" - Old Bomber Pilot Barroom Chant
