Well, as I said, 67.4 will give you 70.0, but it seems, that to make a 1.3 PYR mod, you need about a 71.5 post-RE (68.8 pre-RE minimum), which is not exactly a common loot (I know for sure 71.8 does it from that "test" engine, so a 71.2-7 MIGHT be 1.3, or so close that it'd pretty much be undiscernable).
Also, I found out today that the Incom Advanced Fusialthrust, when placed on a JSF, gives you the canon twin circular engine exhausts in lieu of the pill-shaped blue exhausts.
The only downside...they're as BRIGHT AS THE CORONA OF THE SUN. Wouldn't shock me if you could see them from 5k+ in someplace like DS.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 07-18-200508:36 PM
Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
Also, my previous information regarding the "costs" of certain droid programs has turned out to be incorrect. There are also NEGLECTED *SECONDARY* costs
WO3, which is currently understood to be bugged, SHOULD raise the drain of the weapon by 333%, and raise the EPS of a weapon by 333%, as well.
The reason it's BUGGED is because it current does TWO functions - the Overload and TUNING part. To put it bluntly, if/when this is fixed, you're gonna see a lot less three-gun ships flying around.
For example:
Johnny Theoretical has an L8 reward blaster. Johnny ain't too bright, so he just focuses in on just efficiency and refire, largely neglecting everything else except wanting under 30k mass. "I've got the mass, I'm in a Heavy X-Wing/Krayt!" Stupid, stupid Johnny...
Johnny gets the following:
29,500 mass 2350 drain (I was merciful with Poor Johnny) .371 refire Standard 13.4eps refire
Well, Johnny loves his new gun. With his 13500 gen L3 reactor, he can fit three blasters on his X-Wing, and using a light L2 or L4 cap, power all three without trouble.
Then the nasty Devs come in and fix WO3, and Johnny's world goes to Hell.
For academic purposes, let's assume Johnny's Heavy X-Wing or Krayt has three identical L8 blasters like the ones above. Impossible in reality, but this is just an example.
Let's analyze the two major effects - those on drain and EPS.
Johnny's 2350 drain magically becomes 333% higher...that's...7825.5. Ouch. And that's before Johnny realizes he has THREE of those puppies. That's 23476.5. Damn.
"Oh well," Johnny thinks to himself, "I'll just get a bigger reactor!"
Well, therein lay the rub, as Shakespeare would it. I, being a tad more crass, would just call it a "hard, cold b*tch." And I'm betting 99% of pilots who RE haven't been taking an eventual WO3 fix into account. I have.
When WO3 is fixed, only those with light and 20k+ regen reactors will have a chance in hell of running WO3. Sure, you can get 20-40k+ RCT-Z L8s and Vortex Mk3s, but you're gonna have to hunt for low masses, and the reactor probably WILL be taking the place of one of your former weapons, ESPECIALLY in the case of the RCT-Z, since L8s seem to bottom out around 20-21k mass.
And I haven't even started in on EPS yet. Simply put, following an eventual/possible WO3 nerf, Borstel/Incom blasters are going to become VERY popular. People should start saving low-EPS L7, 9s, and 10s NOW. Not later. NOW.
Because even though the EPS on an REed Borstel/Incom is 13.4, after WO3 is fixed, that will jump to 44.622 (that same 333% increase). That L2/L4 (even L6) cap ain't lookin as powerful now, is it?
Well, thankfully, we have CO4 to the rescue!
But not so fast. As of NOW, it doesn't seem that CO1-4 carries with it a drain penalty. But it would not shock me if with a WO3 fix, comes a CO1-4 "adjustment." If the Devs add a drain penalty, people could be in trouble if they didn't hunt for low-drain (500s-700s) on their caps.
As for the CO1-4 bonuses, let's assume Johnny's using a 44.0/1100 energy L4 cap to power his ship's weapons. What will that turn into when used with the four different overloads?
(Evidently there's a "maximum" stat for caps in both energy and regen. I honestly don't know what it is)
CO1 - 66 regen, 1375 energy CO2 - 88 regen, 1650 energy CO3 - 132 regen, 1925 energy (Johnny would need at least this to carry three Borstels, plus as far as I know, the max regen might be 100.0) CO4 - 176 regen, 2200 energy
...gotta be running out of space...so...
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 07-28-200510:11 AM
Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
It is odd to see you hedging your bets on them fixing something with JTL. Hell, on fixing something in general that doesn't get FUBARed when the ham handed beasts at SOE try to "fix" something.
Anyway, remember the SECONDARY factors I talked about earlier?
Johnny was enjoying his DPS so much, he neglected to concentrate on mass, not only on his weapons, but his armor and shields as well!
They're all around 30k (or in some real-world cases, higher)!
As I said in the last post, we're assuming all of Johnny's WEAPONS are 29.5k, because I was feeling nice.
Okay, so Johnny wants to keep those weapons no matter what. Sure thing, Johnny, but out of the 180k mass ceiling you have on that Heavy X-Wing, you've just used up 88500 of it. 91500k left!
Alright, Johnny followed my advice and got himself a Nym reward engine. He REed it fine (I can still wipe the floor with his theoretical ass, though), but it has an 1825 drain and a still relatively-high 28.5k mass. Baaaad Johnny. No more PvP for you! 63000k mass left.
That 1825 drain then becomes 6077.25 (yes, hundredths DO count, even if you can't see them on the stat window). And what did we say weapons were using WO3? Oh yeah. 23476.5. Assuming my math is correct (and it is), that's 29553.75. Just for a fixed WO3 and EO3, not even COUNTING other crap yet. Ouch.
Now let's go further into Johnny's X-Wing. His prized reward shield weighs 29.5k (getting under 30k was the only thing Johnny cared about), so that's 33500 mass left. Damn. Getting cramped in here?
Oh, that's not all. He didn't take drain into account, since "HEY, WO3 IS AWESOME, THEY'LL NEVER FIX IT! LOL!" Can someone play "Taps" for poor Johnny already? Being nice to Johnny again, I'll say by complete chance he got 2900 drain. Still lower than a SW-crafted...but sheesh, still high. That's now 32453.75 drain. For just the shield, weapons, and engines.
OH YEAH! Almost forgot. WO3 doesn't just effect your PRIMARY weapons, it effects your secondary and DEFENSIVE weapons as well! So lets say Johnny's a cheap-ass missile hound, and keeps a Mk2 ImRec launcher (~6000 mass/1400 drain) on his H-X, along with a simple 900 mass/950 drain [chaff launcher]. Those now become 6062 and 3163.5 drain, respectively. Tacked onto our current total, that's now 41679.25 drain total...and while we're wrapping up, let's assume, for sake of poor Ma Theoretical, that he has a pre-nerf DI with 500 drain. That's 42179.25 drain, all told, if Johnny wants to keep flying the way he is now, with no changes.
Now, how in the HELL is he gonna get that much power, assuming he only has about 30k mass left?
Well, first, his old 13000 gen reactor ain't gonna cut it anymore. Even with RO4, 13000 doesn't get anywhere NEAR what he needs. For the uninitiated, RO4 boosts gen rate by a factor of 1.9 (90%), so 13000=24700. Plus it necessitates a trip to DS to fix.
RO3 gives a mod of 1.6 (60%), and is probably going to be the program of choice, because weird sh*t can happen using RO4 (intended stuff, you're not supposed to be able to boost a reactor that high, and you might find weird things happening).
Let's assume Johnny loots a 19k gen Vortex Mk3 L7. He's ELATED - "ALL MY PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED, I'LL BE 31337 AGAIN!11!1!11!." Barring the mass (which really isn't important right now), it'll RE to 19760. Not very awe-inspiring, is it? Anyway, with RO3/4 respectively, that comes out to 31616 and 37544 regen. We're gettin' close...but we ain't home yet. With a 22000 L7 reactor REed to 22880, those numbers become 36608 and 43472. Yay! Johnny'd have enough with RO4...now...all he needs is one of those reactors. With Mr. 19760, Johnny'd have to ditch a weapon, and he doesn't want that...that's the only way Rebels can ever hit anything! (j/k to all the crackshots)
I've been playing since five days after JTL went live. I've looted maybe...four of these class of reactors power-wise. I've bought quite a few more, including one that will give me plenty of power for any ship/loadout, from Krayt to JSF, at only 10.56k mass - I'll never ever have to TOUCH RO4. No, it's not for sale, and never ever will be - selling it would be like selling my liver to someone - I wouldn't live for long afterward.
So, in short (after this long ass thread), start paying attention to ALL your loot's stats (not what you deem important RIGHT THEN), or you WILL wake up one day and find your world turned upside down.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 07-19-200507:36 PM
Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
Qui-Gonzalez wrote: It is odd to see you hedging your bets on them fixing something with JTL. Hell, on fixing something in general that doesn't get FUBARed when the ham handed beasts at SOE try to "fix" something.
Yeah, but if it DOES get fixed, at least you won't be able to cry that no one told you how to prepare.
All *my* ships are WO3-fix ready! As will be my unnamed apprentice's.
Oh yeah, and those who love using EO4 in PvP should build up nostalgic moments now. I neglected to give the penalties for EO4 - 1000% drain increase - an average 1600 drain would become a whopping 16000. EO4+WO3 wouldn't need a 22.8k gen reactor - we're talking more 30k+ then, and with the increases in refire that WO4 will demand, we're talking L10/POB caps only to drive twin L10s.
If you want to see a nice little preview of what life would be like post-WO3 fix, load up WO2. See if your ship and cap can cut it NOW.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 07-19-200504:55 PM
Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
Just tested my Tactical Nuclear Weapons tonight for the first time...otherwise known as my two .8xx/.8xx L10s, including Mr. 5237.2 Max.
Fired together on a TIE Oppressor testbed in a manual staggerfire, I roasted a Tier 5 gunboat in under 30 seconds (kinda hard to keep count in DS). Granted, it was a railrunner, but it's easy enough to keep turn with an AIed one for that long, too.
Got to put them through some unplanned PvP testing as well...both are based on the H-K Modified Scorcher Elite, so I can't tell which is which unless I only hold one mouse button down, but regardless, I'm sure you could have 5000-strength shields - these weapons wouldn't care. One hit kills, both times. Would've been three, but my very adept cover (since the Oppressor was an extremely-stripped down husk of a ship) scared him off. Not before I bagged his wingwoman, though. And I wouldn't necessarily say "scared off" as much as "used the immense lag of the ISD's lasers to run out his hyperspace clock."
Note to said pilots: P20 got rid of wounds, for God's sake. There's no reason to run anymore. Who knows, you might actually LIKE space PvP, and had you NOT tried to run, you might have been able to bag me tonight for bragging rights - I was in a ship I hate. Give it a shot before complaining to my friend about how he shouldn't target and kill you in an OPEN PVP ZONE. It doesn't cease to be an PvP battlefield at 4am when you feel like popping the ISD just to watch it go BOOM, okay? You pay your Prestige, and ya takes ya chances, capische?
And this was a testbed for an eventual triple-L10 Krayt with an optional L7/L8 turret. I might not have known what it felt like to have a 5000 damage T21, but I'll know what it feels like to have a ship capable of 60000+ DPS (until WO3 is fixed somewhere or sometime down the line).
I still hate Oppressors, though. HATE 'em.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 07-20-200505:22 AM
Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
KaylBreinhar wrote: Just tested my Tactical Nuclear Weapons tonight for the first time...otherwise known as my two .8xx/.8xx L10s, including Mr. 5237.2 Max.
And this was a testbed for an eventual triple-L10 Krayt with an optional L7/L8 turret. I might not have known what it felt like to have a 5000 damage T21, but I'll know what it feels like to have a ship capable of 60000+ DPS (until WO3 is fixed somewhere or sometime down the line).
You're a crazy man. What's the mass on those L10s? 45k?
And, if you don't mind spilling, what's the rest of the planned loadout on this Krayt?
------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eliane Quickblade - "You can't take the sky from me..." Elder Shipwright/Master Pilot - Imperial 6th Wing Forums
The 5237.2 has a mass of 39200.1, making it the unofficial best in mass, too.
And for the moment, the planned loadout depends highly on finding a slightly higher VA L10 and another one to bring the mass more in line with around 40k.
No need to worry, though - this will be a strictly PvE ship - it wouldn't be prudent to use in PvP. All I know is that with Speedbird One (my JSF - named after a certain retired airliner's callsign), it took me about 45-55 seconds per T5 gunboat.
With this, it's 25-30. With a three-gun L10 loadout (the third will be a hair under 5k but have a slightly higher min than the 5237.2), that should probably be around 15 seconds. I think I'll just use an L8 as a stopgap in the interim, but first I'd have to get UP to Master Pilot in RSF. But I've been preparing for it for about a month now, so I've just gotta get two L5s REed to make T2 a breeze, then I should be able to solo everything else, including the two-gunboat mission at the end, since I could commute all of Speedbird's equipment into my alt's JSF and fly as I normally would, since there's nothing over L8 on her.
Also, this dual-L10 loadout is WO3-fix-ready. Triple might be a longshot, but I could probably make it work with some sacrifices.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 07-20-200504:41 PM
Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
Haven't seen anything higher YPR dropping in months.
------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eliane Quickblade - "You can't take the sky from me..." Elder Shipwright/Master Pilot - Imperial 6th Wing Forums
Haven't seen anything higher YPR dropping in months.
It seems like you've got a decent clip on the other stats. The drain could be lower, since a 100 point difference can be notable when running EO3, and DEFINITELY with EO4.
Mass looks good - my lowest is 23373.3 pre-RE, and I've heard of 220xx pre-REs, but at a certain point it just becomes ludicrous to wait longer. My only other advice would be to wait on the yaw - that's the most important maneuvering stat. Try to score a 73.x or higher for yaw before REing - with a 10x.x L8, you very rarely get a second chance, which is why I'm saying find a better drain - read my little WO3-fix case study above.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 07-23-200502:07 AM
Death doesn't fly a JSF anymore...he flies a Gallente Thorax in EVE Online
