LordMaxx wrote: be better if we didnt have to have that BH stuff..
I'm feeling pessimistic today...
it's never gonna happen. We're gonna be stuck always having skill mods and a cert in BH, always having specials in Smuggler and always having a cert in Commando.
I should just grind out a Jedi Padawan to have a Jedi Musician and use the second char slot to make a pistols character.
naah...I dont think we'll be stuck with that stuff...I dont mind certs in other professions...perfectly fine giving hybrid professions weapons for their use...but I do object to essentially requiring us to get MODS and specials to use our pistols effecitvely from the hybrids...
Maxx Wolfe "I...I...I...I...Im not your steppin' stone!" - The Monkees Leader of Team Desert Eagle and Founder of PATGWNIWNU a offshoot of RATGWNIWNU! Chilastra/Valcyn/TC
LordMaxx wrote: be better if we didnt have to have that BH stuff..
I'm feeling pessimistic today...
it's never gonna happen. We're gonna be stuck always having skill mods and a cert in BH, always having specials in Smuggler and always having a cert in Commando.
I should just grind out a Jedi Padawan to have a Jedi Musician and use the second char slot to make a pistols character.
naah...I dont think we'll be stuck with that stuff...I dont mind certs in other professions...perfectly fine giving hybrid professions weapons for their use...but I do object to essentially requiring us to get MODS and specials to use our pistols effecitvely from the hybrids...
Thank you, was the point I was making that a pure master pistoleer who doesn't have skill points left over for smuggler/BH can't do much on a mob who has medium armor and 60-80% resists. Singing to the choir mostly I suppose, but some people don't seem to get this.
Actairr wrote: I think it is rediculous that a MASTER pistoleer cant use all pistols around. He is the MASTER of pistols.
True, but should a fencer be able to use a lightsaber? or a rifleman able to use techincally any shoulder mounted weapon such as some of the long carbines? Its a game mechanic, there should be some perks to being a hybrid profession...and if those perks are certifications for different weapons I dont think that is too big a price. Its not like the scatter and all THAT much better. The damage type was a huge deal. But part of the combat upgrade is to try and make all professions perfectly viable you wont have to get novice commando just so you can get a blast damage weapon that can hit nightsisters...youll be able to use your own tools.
Maxx Wolfe "I...I...I...I...Im not your steppin' stone!" - The Monkees Leader of Team Desert Eagle and Founder of PATGWNIWNU a offshoot of RATGWNIWNU! Chilastra/Valcyn/TC
Actairr wrote: I think it is rediculous that a MASTER pistoleer cant use all pistols around. He is the MASTER of pistols.
True, but should a fencer be able to use a lightsaber? or a rifleman able to use techincally any shoulder mounted weapon such as some of the long carbines? Its a game mechanic, there should be some perks to being a hybrid profession...and if those perks are certifications for different weapons I dont think that is too big a price. Its not like the scatter and all THAT much better. The damage type was a huge deal. But part of the combat upgrade is to try and make all professions perfectly viable you wont have to get novice commando just so you can get a blast damage weapon that can hit nightsisters...youll be able to use your own tools.
But Maxx, the lightsaber doesn't use fencing mods/specials. The long carbines don't use rifle mods, neither do the heavy weapons in Commando and some of the BH ones. The Scatter uses pistol mods and gives pistol XP. The Launcher uses pistol mods and gives... heavy xp???
The only other profession I know of that has a cert in another profession is my other profession. Musician. I can't use the Mandoviol unless I'm a Master Entertainer (which I am, solely to use that damned Mando!) Believe me, if the Mando wasn't in Master Entertainer, I'd have 34 more skill points to play with.
If the CURB gives pure pistols a blast weapon, then that's great. (scatter is acid, right? we've already an acid pistol in the DX-2.)
Starsider: Abici Sselof, Master Entertainer, Musician and Pistoleer; Master Pilot
Yes, but if we get Kinetic, Energy, Heat, Acid, Stun and Blast, then other professions are going to want them as well. And if they get what they want too, then we'll all basically be the same, with no special roles, or special damage types. We'll all just be the same as the rest with different DPS and defense mods.
Commandos aren't Pistoleers, and Pistoleers AREN'T Commandos. The Launcher is a Heavy Weapon that uses Pistoleer mods. A Commando can't use a Launcher Pistol very effectively unless he becomes a Pistoleer. A Commando gets a Launcher because he's trained to blow big things up. Pistoleers don't get it because Pistoleers aren't supposed to be blowing stuff up. It's not in our job description.
Anyone who's ever watched any movies that focus on pistol fighting (Desperado, Equilibrium, Tombstone), understands that the Master Pistoleer title doesn't have anything to do with certification really. I mean really, how much harder is it for me to line up the sights of a DX2 and then pull the trigger than it is for me to do the same with a CDEF? Is a DX2 really that much harder to use than a DL44?
Of course not, but as Maxx pointed out, this is a mechanic that games use. Certifications are part of defining the roles of various professions and skillsets.
Master Pistoleer is a mastery of the techniques of using a pistol to kill lots and lots of people. But Pistoleers don't blow things up. It's not our style, and we don't need to be able to do everything. We don't need blast damage, we don't need KD/Dizzy moves. What we need is to always learn to make the most of whatever we have available to us.
In this instance that means taking the high ground and not allowing our greedy desires for uberness overrun what is actually best for this game. Just because we're Master Pistoleers doesn't mean that we should be certified for a Launcher Pistol so we can blow up AT-STs and Turrets. That's the Commando's role, and Commandos should do that more effectively than anyone. That's why they get the certification and we don't.
I think of a Commando Pistoleer as a specialized Pistoleer who has learned to blend his mastery of the forms and techniques of gunfighting with a special understanding of heavy weapons and assault tactics. Hence, he gets the Launcher Pistol cert. Being a Master Pistoleer doesn't give you the understanding of demolition or heavy weapons, so we're limited in that kind of situation by our certifications. It's called balance, my friend. We're screaming for it, so let's not deprive it from someone else. We don't need to be able to do everything as good as someone else. Balance is about building equal assets and disadvantages into each profession. We have strengths that a Commando alone doesn't. And a Commando has strengths we don't have. That's balance. And that's how it should stay, in my opinion.
---------- "I've got black magic, a hair trigger, and a short fuse. Bring it!" -Black Mage
Actairr wrote: Step-1: Talk to Fett to get access to DWB (north west corner of endor)
Step-2: Go to death watch bunker
Step-3: Walk, not run, but walk next to the wall on your right. Follow that down, hit the control box on your left. Dont go straight those are droids. Make your first right go in that room
Step-4: Slaughter the two men in there. (you can repeat this over and over if you want)
What I do
Step-5: Go in next hallway, fire one shot from hallway to draw out first npc in room two. Then draw out next guy.
Step-6: Follow that hallway down stairs, dont go in room, draw out one guy then the next like the last room
Step-7: Return to the 1st room and start again.
Hope this helps, good luck my fellow gunslinger.
ps. I forgot, you have to loot each person you kill. Just what to cover all the steps. And most important of all, have fun.
Message Edited by Actairr on 01-28-200506:51 PM
yeah, right. It's that easy. yeah sure. I've tried it twice. The first time I walked into that first room and saw in spatial "Intruder!! Sound the alarm!!" and then every henchmen and battle droid was on me like stink on crap. I managed to get out but the SPD chased me 1000m (i forgot to leave my speeder out) and it can keep up to a burst run. Dead.
The second time I got in the room and started shooting a henchman, suddenly 5 more ran in. Then a battle droid comes in and I try to run away, but end up in the cloning center. It is not this easy. If anyone can just stand there and kill 2 guys over and over again, either they are holding out on some secret or are the most incredible lucky people on Endor.
Ren, I'll concede the point to you for game play balance from the damage type standpoint not to have it in our profession.
On the same token, why does the Launcher Pistol use pistoleer mods then? You only need Novice Commando to work the pistol. Any other skill points spent in Commando is pointless for the Launcher Pistol itself. A master commando/master marksman uses the weapon as effectively as a novice commando/master marksman. It's the pistoleer skills that determine which commando is better with a commando weapon. That's what bothers me about the situation as well.
Basically, my narrow minded thought is this. If it uses our mods, the cert should be in our tree. If the cert is not in our tree, then it shouldn't use our mods. As you said, from a balance standpoint, the cert should not be in our tree, therefore, the weapon should not use our mods. (in my little world anyways, but my little world is messed up though... )
Starsider: Abici Sselof, Master Entertainer, Musician and Pistoleer; Master Pilot
LOL did you use fan shot or some kind of multi target shot Sinnaman? I go in the DWB every time I get in game and it is this easy. You must have gotten very unlucky when you went. If you would like to make a character on valcyn and come with me youare more than welcome. Also I must say that I have never seen them say sound the alarm lol, that would be crazy if they did. BUt not sure what to say.
Ren, I'll concede the point to you for game play balance from the damage type standpoint not to have it in our profession.
On the same token, why does the Launcher Pistol use pistoleer mods then? You only need Novice Commando to work the pistol. Any other skill points spent in Commando is pointless for the Launcher Pistol itself. A master commando/master marksman uses the weapon as effectively as a novice commando/master marksman. It's the pistoleer skills that determine which commando is better with a commando weapon. That's what bothers me about the situation as well.
Basically, my narrow minded thought is this. If it uses our mods, the cert should be in our tree. If the cert is not in our tree, then it shouldn't use our mods. As you said, from a balance standpoint, the cert should not be in our tree, therefore, the weapon should not use our mods. (in my little world anyways, but my little world is messed up though... )
I see what you're saying Nifty, but try to broaden your scope and "think outside the box."
The Novice Commando already knows basic Pistoleer skills. Pistoleer skills are not required to be able to use the majority of Marksman weapons. Pistoleers tend to get better pistols than a Marksman-only though. A Pistoleer is a kind of specialized Marksman, just as a Commando is a specialized Marksman (their Unarmed skills don't play out in their profession at all).
Whereas the Pistoleer learns to focus his skills on honing his accuracy, speed, defense -- those things that make a Master Pistoleer a Master Pistoleer -- the Commando doesn't focus on the techniques. He uses what he's learned as a Marksman to enhance his ability with the Launcher pistol. He doesn't use Pistoleer mods, he uses Marksman mods, but he doesn't get the Launcher as a Marksman, right? Pistoleer is the best way to make the most effective use of the Launcher Pistol, but a Pistoleer doesn't focus on blowing up large targets. His finesse and expertise will help him as a Commando, to be sure, but the Commando doesn't rely on Pistoleer skills. He relies on Marksman skills, and his Commando certification. They're two different disciplines, Commando and Pistoleer, and one doesn't depend on the other. One will enhance the other, but a Commando with a Launcher pistol can be considered a Pistoleer with special training outside the normal Pistoleer roles, but a Master Pistoleer doesn't have that training.
The skill mods represent overall ability. The certifications represent your role and specialized skills.
Maybe that makes sense, maybe it doesn't. But not having a Launcher in Pistoleer doesn't bug me at all.
---------- "I've got black magic, a hair trigger, and a short fuse. Bring it!" -Black Mage
I see what you're saying, too, Ren. Getting the Launcher Pistol Cert makes perfect sense, in a "real" world setting and in the game mechanics setting.
Currently in SWG, using the Launcher Pistol still doesn't make sense in either setting. Take any item in real life. Using that item gets you more skilled with that item (and items very similar to it), correct? Well, that's not how the Launcher Pistol works in SWG. A Commando using the Launcher Pistol gains Heavy XP, which cannot be used to increase skill in using the Launcher Pistol. To get better with the Launcher Pistol, the Commando must go use a Marksman or Pistoleer pistol and increase their Pistoleer skills. Not only does that not make any sense from a "real" world standpoint, it is completely against the concept of a experience system that's based on successfully using a skill (in this case using a skill with a specific item.) There isn't another item in the entire game that I know of that using it gains experience that you can't use to improve your skills with the item.
Then again, a lot of stuff in this game doesn't make sense. Just seems like most of the combat related ones touch pistoleer in one way or another.
Starsider: Abici Sselof, Master Entertainer, Musician and Pistoleer; Master Pilot
Actairr wrote: Step-1: Talk to Fett to get access to DWB (north west corner of endor)
Step-2: Go to death watch bunker
Step-3: Walk, not run, but walk next to the wall on your right. Follow that down, hit the control box on your left. Dont go straight those are droids. Make your first right go in that room
Step-4: Slaughter the two men in there. (you can repeat this over and over if you want)
What I do
Step-5: Go in next hallway, fire one shot from hallway to draw out first npc in room two. Then draw out next guy.
Step-6: Follow that hallway down stairs, dont go in room, draw out one guy then the next like the last room
Step-7: Return to the 1st room and start again.
Hope this helps, good luck my fellow gunslinger.
ps. I forgot, you have to loot each person you kill. Just what to cover all the steps. And most important of all, have fun.
Message Edited by Actairr on 01-28-200506:51 PM
yeah, right. It's that easy. yeah sure. I've tried it twice. The first time I walked into that first room and saw in spatial "Intruder!! Sound the alarm!!" and then every henchmen and battle droid was on me like stink on crap. I managed to get out but the SPD chased me 1000m (i forgot to leave my speeder out) and it can keep up to a burst run. Dead.
The second time I got in the room and started shooting a henchman, suddenly 5 more ran in. Then a battle droid comes in and I try to run away, but end up in the cloning center. It is not this easy. If anyone can just stand there and kill 2 guys over and over again, either they are holding out on some secret or are the most incredible lucky people on Endor.
It is that easy. I was in there for an hour and followed the steps provided and had no problem in the first room. I tried the second room and got agroed by a SBD and ran out and lived. I went back to the first room again and continued without a problem until I hit /fanshot by mistake, then it was game over.
Neeo [
Can't do it anymore...
Account ends Dec. 8 Now that you have tasted my mutton, how do you like it?
When you first walk in, the corridor continues to two Battle Droids, but there's a door to your right with the first two dudes. You WALK down the corridor on your right, into the room with the two Humanoids, and kill them. Then you walk through that room into the opposite door, and turn right again. Just walk until the door in front of you opens and then STOP. Target the Thug (or Henchman, whichever is there) and shoot him with a HS2 or HS1, or BleedingShot... anykind of Bleed attack. Make sure you don't shot at the Assassin. After you've fired the bleed attack, hit peace so you don't fire again. Hitting him with anything other than a bleed attack will aggro them both. I use a macro like this:
/kneel;
/pause 1;
/healthshot2;
/pause 1;
/peace;
/stand
The bleed attack won't agro the dude, so you run back into the room where you just killed the two dudes (they're dead and looted now, obviously) and wait for the bleed to tick on the guy you just "pulled." This bleed attack strategy is the ultimate pulling tactic. When the bleed ticks, the dude will come looking for you, but his buddy won't follow him (the Assassin is hard!). The bleeding dude will come into the room all by himself and you can kill him there easily.
Once he's dead, go through the door like before, but this time turn left. Follow the corridor down (it slopes down) until the door in front of you opens, and then STOP. When the door's open, angle yourself appropriately and use the same macro against the nearest Thug or Henchman. Once you have hit him with the bleed, again, run back to the room where you killed the first three guys (the two and then the one). Kill this guy, then run back down the corridor to the right, and do the same to the second Thug/Henchman in that room (there are two or three SBDs in this room, but as long as you don't get too close to the door, and use a bleed attack only, you won't agro them).
I do this all the time, and it's the fastest way to loot grind the DWB. Using that macro, you have easy access to five easy DW dudes and any phat lewt they may be carrying. Remember, only attack Henchmen and Thugs. Assassins, Battle Droids, and SBDs will either kill you, or in the case of the Assassin take so long to kill that another dude will likely spawn on top of you and then kill you.
I've done it before, and it's really easy with buffs, even for a no-BH Pistoleer.
---------- "I've got black magic, a hair trigger, and a short fuse. Bring it!" -Black Mage
Actairr wrote: Just a few other thoughts one what to do once you get your schem and barrel.
First-I would go with a yellow barrel if you can wait until you loot it. It will add a little more damage, and make all the other stats of the gun slightly better.
Second-Make sure the weaponsmith is using the BEST materials possible, I believe it is the copper that is gonna be hard to get that is good.
Third-Use high damage krayt tissue. I used +89 for my first one and +123ish for my second. My first got a 34% damage slice and second got a 28% damage slice, with pup they are both around 650 damage. Speed to me does not matter much since I am BH, you may want tissue that is higher speed than damage if you are just pistoleer.
Fourth-Find a weaponsmith that has +25 (or highest possible) experimentation points, it helps a ton.
Good luck all
A WS can only handle 12 experimentation points. Say +20 exp tapes. Also the critical resource is the Plumbum Iron, that always has crappy conductivity (capped by 130 if i remember right). Almost all fireweapons so the DE-10 do use the 50-50 rule of Overall Quality and Conductivity. If the other resources best quality and the tissues (krayt) are nice it is still possible also for a 10 pointer to make a usable weapon. Obviously almost ever you can't spend all exp points into one bar like damage. Although it is good to have some spare to enhance the condition (no one want to loose his DE quick) or range to enhance ideal range mod. Also i am used to say that it is good to have a scope mounted on the DE.
I forgot to mention the SBD. In room two sometimes there is a SBD. The reason for this is that there is a chest in there with crummy loot. If you open that chest the SBD will spawn. Use your overhead map and see if there are 2 or 3 dots in that room. 2 you are in the clear. 3 means SBD.
But Pistoleers don't blow things up. It's not our style, and we don't need to be able to do everything. We don't need blast damage, we don't need KD/Dizzy moves. What we need is to always learn to make the most of whatever we have available to us.
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