Q & A New server, The Finalizer

[jmx]

I would like to know why the devs will not outright ban fightclubbing.

You have made some really positive changes...but fightclubbing is still going to happen here it isn't difficult to achieve a good fightclub within these changes. It just requires your mates to have 3000, as many as you can and some fillers, or just a couple of sessions a week to make up for lack of numbers, due to 2 chars/1online when the list resets..
, there are already people talking about "controlling" the FRS.

We have seen from bas, that FC was responsible for so much damage. it was like a hyper parody of live. Everyone was capped FRS, and every rank flooded. This is so far from reality of what FRS was like on live.

This will really really damage the health of the server if you allow FC.

Please consider this.

I want to partake in a competitive system that is legitimate, like most players I would hope,
The frs system is a joke. But you have the opportunity to do something here. If you are unwilling to ban FC please just turn the system off until something better is available.

[Tyrenio]

Honestly I think the XP changes are quite hasty. That is going so far in the other direction. Not making it based on damage changes the game in so many ways.
Jedi will fully grind templates in day(s) and never have to worry about BH. BH will no longer have real purpose since Jedi will just grind through any XP loss if a death occurs.
Oh and the entire server will pretty much master their profs on the day this goes live..


I love everything about this launch so far. I’m very worried about this one as it’s shortsighted IMo. I know I’m one person, but really would have expected a change this large to utilize the new survey system instead of being dropped after a single day. Difficulty is what Sets this server apart from the others. Don’t make it too easy and it’ll actually last.

Really would love to see the survey system used for changes like this, since I know everyone has different viewports.

I think you have it completely backwards… Jedi will be constantly on the terms because of via from group hunting. How would this protect Jedi from BHs?

Why is it important to spend a dozen hours grinding a template in the early server stage? The curve will flatten dramatically anyway when there are good enough resources to make viable armor and weapons, why not at least incentivize group play? If this change wasn’t made, once we have 80% armor I could still grind out TK in a day or two.

[naveed]

Honestly I think the XP changes are quite hasty. That is going so far in the other direction. Not making it based on damage changes the game in so many ways.
Jedi will fully grind templates in day(s) and never have to worry about BH. BH will no longer have real purpose since Jedi will just grind through any XP loss if a death occurs.
Oh and the entire server will pretty much master their profs on the day this goes live..


I love everything about this launch so far. I’m very worried about this one as it’s shortsighted IMo. I know I’m one person, but really would have expected a change this large to utilize the new survey system instead of being dropped after a single day. Difficulty is what Sets this server apart from the others. Don’t make it too easy and it’ll actually last.

Really would love to see the survey system used for changes like this, since I know everyone has different viewports.

Agreed, I feel like its a pretty significant change and a negative one IMHO. Although I guess I'm not fully aware of the intent here. If this is seen as a Finalist specific change to facilitate early game grinding and thus later game testing then I don't really mind it. If its something that is expected to also be a part of 1.0 then I feel like its outside the scope of the projects stated goals. Maybe ill feel differently after seeing this in practice but the amount of time it will take to grind professions seems like it will be significantly reduced and I haven't given much thought to the village and Jedi grind for this although I have seen some conversations around that.

[wallawocko]

I think you have it completely backwards… Jedi will be constantly on the terms because of via from group hunting. How would this protect Jedi from BHs?

Its not that it protects jedi from BH, its that it makes dying from BH irrelevant. If you can grind 400k xp in an our early jedi instead of 5k (example numbers), why would losing 30k to a BH death matter? It doesnt. Jedi just grind through any death that happens.
This particularly impacts early jedi, which IMO is a super fun experience, transitioning from being something like a melee stacker to sucking with a lightsaber. Its awesome that jedi start weak. This 'weak' period will be gone, having a friend just spin lairs with you, and getting to the LS tree unlocked within a couple minutes instead of potentially multiple buff sessions on Rori poking things

Jedi will be constantly on the terms because of via from group hunting

And looking at the other BH change (that i think is good to deal with fight clubbing!) with the timeout on a person pulling a jedi's mission -- combine these two changes (timer + group spin grinding) and BH will be even less of a bother to jedi, since they won't even be able to re-attain the mission when the jedi keeps on grinding.

Lastly - i know this is a TC and there will be changes. I encourage them. However, this just seems a very significant change that will impact lots of systems, being made very quickly. The survey we got to make the server had me under the impression we'd have a sort of runescape-esk system for community input on large changes such as this. (If you don't know what i'm talking about, google it - they have an amazing system where the community votes on changes to be made)
These are just my opinions. I know some other folks see this from a different lens (which is why I like voting and numbers!)

[eallend7]

Lol started reading mostly general excitement, read on to ADK debates, then jedi debates, then fight club issues, 1 toon online issues.

I haven't seen 800 online connections in years, this is good

[Lolindir]

I have to remind you that we have 2 CSRs. Monitoring fight clubs would be a manual task. We would not be able to do that, with everything else that is happening in support.

As for the XP in groups. Its not final, we are looking at solutions. We have done a few internal tests and we want to make some adjustments. It gave too much XP.

[Hakry]

Just a couple quick Q & A updates:

• XP will no longer be split based on damage, so you can grind with each other in groups
• Looted DoT weapons use count now cap at 2000 uses instead of 9999 previously
• Jedi can earn FRS XP from Bounty Hunters with Investigation 3 & up, that are actively hunting the Jedi - Not yet implemented
• Jedi Missions will have a cool down for the BH to get the mission again, regardless if they fail or succeed

• XP will no longer be split based on damage, so you can grind with each other in groups

The XP split is held for now, while we discuss it more. We appreciate the feedback we have been receiving. Just wanted to let you know we hear both sides of things and are taking it into account.


Our goal is to promote players to be able to play together while grinding and farming, while not making it so XP earning is too easy.




Additions to the list above that I had left out before.

• FRS XP will not be split from kills. This is to help make it possible to achieve rank, while attempting to prevent fight clubbing.
• Jedi Padawans will not give FRS XP when killed. Jedi must be Rank 0 or greater.

To make a note on the banning of fight clubbing would flood our support department with "I think X and X are fight clubbing."

Instead we are attempting to take the alternate route of preventing it through game mechanics. Requiring a bounty hunter to have a Jedi's active mission as well as the addition of a cool down will make fight clubbing nearly impossible.

[dedaskalion]

You just have your friends pull your mission every time the timer is up to farm FRS xp.........

Disappointing to hear about group xp. Combat grinding had virtually no difference in the when they changed to the CU, you kill mob - you get xp; and it wasn't an issue for them to turn off xp split. Like the one thing the CU did right.

[jmx]

the solution is just to take away the ability to gain FRS from non jedi...Why not do this...
Saying you want to incentivize BH fights is a lame lame excuse.

This server will be ruined if this is allowed...you have the ability to stop fightclubbing with simple changes... other servers have done it fine. Why do you refuse?

[Farsun]

I'm fairly confident that other servers have created logging for Force Rank Experience exchange and that could either be (a) adopted by SWGEmu or (b) SWGEmu could create their own logging (as a component of their already numerous tracking and logging tools) and monitored or even automated in the event of large or rapid experience exchanges.

[dedaskalion]

the solution is just to take away the ability to gain FRS from non jedi...Why not do this...
Saying you want to incentivize BH fights is a lame lame excuse.

This server will be ruined if this is allowed...you have the ability to stop fightclubbing with simple changes... other servers have done it fine. Why do you refuse?

yeah, its really that simple. The absolute least exploitable system is to only grant FRS xp for opposing enclave jedi kills. And only allow 1 jedi per account so you can't just grind an alt jedi to FC with.

You'll never incentivize jedi to fight BH. If a jedi knows he can kill the BH, he's going to stay and do it. If the jedi is going to lose, he's going to run away so he doesn't die and lose xp lol. The main complaint from BH is that jedi run, nothing in the world is going to change a jedi from running from a losing fight.

[avimeso]

You just have your friends pull your mission every time the timer is up to farm FRS xp.........

Disappointing to hear about group xp. Combat grinding had virtually no difference in the when they changed to the CU, you kill mob - you get xp; and it wasn't an issue for them to turn off xp split. Like the one thing the CU did right.

Literally the only difference is 20man group during pre cu vs 8 man group i think during CU. Maybe alot of them didn't play during CU and saw what Jedi did on ryatt trails. SOE never changed it. I'm not really seeing the logic.

[Hakry]

You just have your friends pull your mission every time the timer is up to farm FRS xp.........

Disappointing to hear about group xp. Combat grinding had virtually no difference in the when they changed to the CU, you kill mob - you get xp; and it wasn't an issue for them to turn off xp split. Like the one thing the CU did right.

I think you underestimate the time sink that would be required to actually try to fight club using a BH with an active mission and the timer after. Also it will require you to have all friends with their second character being sunk into BH. So no crafters, Docs, Ents etc.

The group split is not a dropped subject completely. We are still actively discussing the best method to approach it.

the solution is just to take away the ability to gain FRS from non jedi...Why not do this...
Saying you want to incentivize BH fights is a lame lame excuse.

This server will be ruined if this is allowed...you have the ability to stop fightclubbing with simple changes... other servers have done it fine. Why do you refuse?

It is the time required to siphon through everyone thinking people are fight clubbing. The same thing occurred with Basilisk PvP. Boy who cried wolf with exploit reports and Support already handles enough.

I'm fairly confident that other servers have created logging for Force Rank Experience exchange and that could either be (a) adopted by SWGEmu or (b) SWGEmu could create their own logging (as a component of their already numerous tracking and logging tools) and monitored or even automated in the event of large or rapid experience exchanges.

Yes absolutely, this is for sure something for us to look into tracking more closely but was not something we did on Basilisk. Lk is our data guy and is good at what he does. So is something we can possibly look into doing here on Fin.

[dedaskalion]

you can most definitely have crafter and doc with only 3xxx BH

[jmx]

It doesn't have to be a manual task though. Just no FRS from non jedi. FRS is a Jedi v Jedi system.

I agree that the changes do help to combat FC. You wont see the ones like bas that are disgustingly efficient. But you will still be able to get a really good amount of XP with just a few friends.

Come on Hakry, you are the only member of staff that knows pvp, you know how damaging this will be if FC is allowed.