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Thread: New Play-Test Server Survey Results

  1. #31
    Junior Member Katsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLiFeR View Post


    Here we go again.



    14.1 compliant. How many 14.1 servers are out there besides Basilisk? Oh, zero - unpopular. I guess that's such a bad thing staff listened to feedback on the forums. Where else do you want ideas posted????? What's the purpose of a forum then if not for discussions?
    How many other servers have 14.1 as their mission statement besides Basilisk? Oh, zero. I understand that the forum is the ideal place for discussion to take place. This does not change the fact that only a small percentage of the player base visit the forum, and that an even smaller percentage have posted wanting to see certain changes be made.

    Regardless, none of that changes the fact that the in game vote may have yielded a different result had people known the changes that would be associated with the new server. Nor does it mean that there isn't room for further discussion on what changes could or should be made. When the new server launches a simple poll "Would you like to see X changed?" would give a definitive answer.

    Assuming you, or anyone else speaks for the majority is arrogant.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLiFeR View Post
    It seems you are the only one kicking and screaming over nothing, not us. Vocal Minority? Are you sure you aren't in the minority? Maybe you could have added your input in the thread with the others, I looked at your post history, you are active on the forums. Maybe you should listen to your own advice and wait and see, instead of making something out of nothing. Otherwise, I see a lot of happy people around here.
    I've seen you banging the same drum for quite some time now, I rarely offer an opinion on things like character limit, ADKs, SL Buff range etc etc because 1) the same arguments have been made time and time again on both sides, and 2) because up until the poll results were in, and the announcement of the changes that will follow with the new server the devs have NEVER said that these changes would be implemented.

    Assuming that all the happy people we are seeing are happy as a result of these changes is somewhat bizarre. I would argue that most are happy at the idea of having a crack on a fresh server first and foremost. I would also argue that having said crack was the principle reason why people voted for a new server, and had little if anything to do with potential changes that were announced AFTER the voting took place.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLiFeR View Post
    So you want to modify LS resist on PSGs (something PSGs always had on live) but you want ADKs, which barely existed on live. Got it.
    What I would like to see is a better balance overall. You've completely ignored the legitimate concerns that the changes will only result in Jedi becoming overpowered as they were in the live days. At least back then Jedi were somewhat rare, and required an awful lot of time to grind to a complete template.
    On the new server I'm pretty sure we'll see a much larger Jedi population than at any point in pre cu live days, and in a much shorter period of time. Which will only exacerbate the imbalance.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLiFeR View Post
    Then stay on Basilisk for '14.1'? They are giving everyone a choice where to play. There's no need to act like you are forced to do anything. Staff joined the discussion with us, and made the best decisions they could. You're active on the forums, why are you complaining a discussion happened on the forums, and how it would affect your vote? It's contradictory. Because you didn't participate? Seems like you need to sort that out on your end. Nitpicking at this point is just absurd.
    I'm not acting like I am being forced into anything. The fact remains that the voting metric cannot be used to accurately gauge what changes the majority of the player base would like to see happen on a new server. It simply shows that the majority who voted would like to see a new server. To suggest otherwise is both arrogant and absurd.



    You seem to be taking all of this discussion far to personally, just because someone doesn't see eye to eye with you, doesn't mean you can't engage with them rationally and respectfully.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member SLiFeR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    How many other servers have 14.1 as their mission statement besides Basilisk? Oh, zero. I understand that the forum is the ideal place for discussion to take place. This does not change the fact that only a small percentage of the player base visit the forum, and that an even smaller percentage have posted wanting to see certain changes be made.

    Regardless, none of that changes the fact that the in game vote may have yielded a different result had people known the changes that would be associated with the new server. Nor does it mean that there isn't room for further discussion on what changes could or should be made. When the new server launches a simple poll "Would you like to see X changed?" would give a definitive answer.

    Assuming you, or anyone else speaks for the majority is arrogant.


    Apparently you are not aware. You could have posted your opinions in this thread, like everyone else: https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241977

    Instead, you were too busy posting in the Basilisk trade forums. Huh, I wonder what the motives are here?



    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post

    I've seen you banging the same drum for quite some time now, I rarely offer an opinion on things like character limit, ADKs, SL Buff range etc etc because 1) the same arguments have been made time and time again on both sides, and 2) because up until the poll results were in, and the announcement of the changes that will follow with the new server the devs have NEVER said that these changes would be implemented.

    Assuming that all the happy people we are seeing are happy as a result of these changes is somewhat bizarre. I would argue that most are happy at the idea of having a crack on a fresh server first and foremost. I would also argue that having said crack was the principle reason why people voted for a new server, and had little if anything to do with potential changes that were announced AFTER the voting took place.
    Yeah, you got me - I've been 'banging the same drum' for what, 2 weeks since I got back here? And you have been here less than 2 years? You can check my join date, how can you make a false claim like that? LOL.

    Again, you seem very heavily invested in Basilisk. I think we know what's going on here and why you don't want to see a new server with better changes that reflect a true pre-cu experience we had in 2004.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post


    What I would like to see is a better balance overall. You've completely ignored the legitimate concerns that the changes will only result in Jedi becoming overpowered as they were in the live days. At least back then Jedi were somewhat rare, and required an awful lot of time to grind to a complete template.
    On the new server I'm pretty sure we'll see a much larger Jedi population than at any point in pre cu live days, and in a much shorter period of time. Which will only exacerbate the imbalance.
    Is the Jedi who wronged you in the room with us right now?



    So you want a server like Basilisk where Jedi suck, after months of time investment - because of 10 years of resources, ADKs, 70% LS psgs, and broken weapons is more fun for you? What's your definition of overpowered? Are these things not overpowered? Only overpowered if they have a glowbat? Cool, stay on Basilisk then. That's not how Pre-CU was. You can look up many videos where Jedi were prevalent. Here's one:



    Looks like a lot of Jedi. Not sure what to tell you. Ever heard of a stacker? Doesn't seem overpowered to me.



    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post

    I'm not acting like I am being forced into anything. The fact remains that the voting metric cannot be used to accurately gauge what changes the majority of the player base would like to see happen on a new server. It simply shows that the majority who voted would like to see a new server. To suggest otherwise is both arrogant and absurd.

    You seem to be taking all of this discussion far to personally, just because someone doesn't see eye to eye with you, doesn't mean you can't engage with them rationally and respectfully.
    Nothing's personal - it's a game. As I pointed out, you seem very attached to Basilisk based on your post history. I don't think you've been around here long enough to fully understand the bigger picture. Next time there's an important thread with 10k+ views, voice your input. Don't start throwing insults because you didn't get your way.

    Respect the Staff decision, and make your own decision now that they presented to you.

    1. Play the new server
    2. Play Basilisk
    3. Play both servers
    4. Don't play at all

    Simple as that.
    Last edited by SLiFeR; 12-14-2021 at 06:42 PM.
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  3. #33
    Junior Member ghostm's Avatar
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    some things never change... new server supposed to bring people together not continue the back and forth banter.

    Its pretty simple, play finalizer or dont


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  4. #34
    Senior Member SLiFeR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghostm View Post
    Its pretty simple, play finalizer or dont
    That's right. The staff literally gave the community the best of both worlds with two servers, and they are still crying. It's unreal.
    <JuDGE> Guild Leader | First SWGEmu Jedi Knight & Rank 11 Jedi Council Leader

  5. #35
    Junior Member LQUser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLiFeR View Post
    That's right. The staff literally gave the community the best of both worlds with two servers, and they are still crying. It's unreal.
    I just don't see what having multiple surveys in game to decide what changes are made will really accomplish everything. You can't please everyone and there would still be people upset.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkiller01 View Post
    its not a straw man argument, and if you look at the economy on bas, you will see why. making top quality gear is not about "time" as you put it. its about having the correct tapes, and the best resources. now it doesn't matter if you are a crafter or not, if you are not collecting the best resources from day 1, you are not playing the game right.

    top tier items are easy to create, the best crafters are not known for crafting the best stuff, its about CONSISTENTLY crafting the best stuff. people use those vendors because they are reliable, not because they get an extra point over the next guy. its about having a good product that is readily available, so even a player who is as good an armoursmith as someone else, if he is too focused on his jedi grind, people wont use him because he is not consistent with providing a quality product.
    Actually it is about time. But since you brought up the Bas economy, lets look at it. Is it bad because players have extra characters or is it bad because almost nobody is atk or pvping or really much of anything?

    There is a lot of time investment in playing any class well and the more characters you try to play, the harder it is to play them all well.

    But why am i arguing with somebody that thinks people only having 2 characters to buy things for will be better for the economy than people having 5-10 to buy for...Because i see a lot less houses, armor, weapons, food, clothing and vehicles being bought and sold on the new server after the initial push.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RecksRacer View Post
    Actually it is about time. But since you brought up the Bas economy, lets look at it. Is it bad because players have extra characters or is it bad because almost nobody is atk or pvping or really much of anything?

    There is a lot of time investment in playing any class well and the more characters you try to play, the harder it is to play them all well.

    But why am i arguing with somebody that thinks people only having 2 characters to buy things for will be better for the economy than people having 5-10 to buy for...Because i see a lot less houses, armor, weapons, food, clothing and vehicles being bought and sold on the new server after the initial push.
    If you honestly think that is true then you should just stick with Bas and have fun with <20 ATK connections in a few months.

  8. #38
    SWGEmu Admin Lolindir's Avatar
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    I would hope members of the community would understand that if we let everyone get their wishes for the game, it would become ruined. We just can't do that. We have to have a vision of the server and work within that vision.
    When it comes to features in the game, we will listen and discuss with the community, but make no mistake, we will not implement something we believe would damage the game, or make it less.

    We are making a new server because the community have asked for a long time for change, but we also make it for us, to test. If all we did was to make a new Basilisk, we would not make a new server. There wouldn't be a point.

    The changes we make now are the first, more to come. Now we can test what will work and what will not. We can figure stuff out like we can't on a production server. Production servers need more stability in the direction.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member SLiFeR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolindir View Post
    I would hope members of the community would understand that if we let everyone get their wishes for the game, it would become ruined. We just can't do that. We have to have a vision of the server and work within that vision.
    When it comes to features in the game, we will listen and discuss with the community, but make no mistake, we will not implement something we believe would damage the game, or make it less.

    We are making a new server because the community have asked for a long time for change, but we also make it for us, to test. If all we did was to make a new Basilisk, we would not make a new server. There wouldn't be a point.

    The changes we make now are the first, more to come. Now we can test what will work and what will not. We can figure stuff out like we can't on a production server. Production servers need more stability in the direction.
    Thank you for clarifying.
    <JuDGE> Guild Leader | First SWGEmu Jedi Knight & Rank 11 Jedi Council Leader

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starjumper View Post
    If they allowed 2 instances we'd end up with 1500 pop dual logged how is that better than 3000 unique?
    Pretty sure I stated my opinion...you can either agree or disagree....is based purely on lack of population...which will hopefully be a non issue.

  11. #41
    Junior Member Katsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLiFeR View Post


    Apparently you are not aware. You could have posted your opinions in this thread, like everyone else: https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241977

    Instead, you were too busy posting in the Basilisk trade forums. Huh, I wonder what the motives are here?





    Yeah, you got me - I've been 'banging the same drum' for what, 2 weeks since I got back here? And you have been here less than 2 years? You can check my join date, how can you make a false claim like that? LOL.

    Again, you seem very heavily invested in Basilisk. I think we know what's going on here and why you don't want to see a new server with better changes that reflect a true pre-cu experience we had in 2004.



    Is the Jedi who wronged you in the room with us right now?



    So you want a server like Basilisk where Jedi suck, after months of time investment - because of 10 years of resources, ADKs, 70% LS psgs, and broken weapons is more fun for you? What's your definition of overpowered? Are these things not overpowered? Only overpowered if they have a glowbat? Cool, stay on Basilisk then. That's not how Pre-CU was. You can look up many videos where Jedi were prevalent. Here's one:



    Looks like a lot of Jedi. Not sure what to tell you. Ever heard of a stacker? Doesn't seem overpowered to me.





    Nothing's personal - it's a game. As I pointed out, you seem very attached to Basilisk based on your post history. I don't think you've been around here long enough to fully understand the bigger picture. Next time there's an important thread with 10k+ views, voice your input. Don't start throwing insults because you didn't get your way.

    Respect the Staff decision, and make your own decision now that they presented to you.

    1. Play the new server
    2. Play Basilisk
    3. Play both servers
    4. Don't play at all

    Simple as that.
    The 1 v 1 battle does nothing to disprove the imbalance in the game. The pikeman is using a legendary weapon for a start, many of the comments suggest the Jedi is using a weak template, and there's no way of knowing if an ADK'd PSG is being used (not to mention an ADK' LS as plenty of Jedi will have used theirs for a capped/near cap LS)

    The group Jedi battle shows a large number of Jedi, but doesn't reflect what percentage of the server population that represents. I've never stated that there were hardly any Jedi, simply that they were less common back then. Make it easier and quicker to unlock a Padawan now, and even easier to build one to a full template thanks to a decade of people learning how to level way faster than ever before and they will be more prevalent than ever.

    If you need to have a quite specific build to 1 v 1 a Jedi, such as a melee stacker build, this then limits any PVE content greatly, and is therefore not well balanced. Give them a better source of protection vs LS allows for a better range of options.

    I'm not bitter about Jedi, I had my own Jedi Knight on live. I just don't see the argument that ADK's alone made Jedi useless.

    Am I invested in Basilisk? Yes, I play on here regularly and I still enjoy it. I still voted for a new server, but that I would probably invest time into both. Please stop making blanket assumptions and generalizations about me based on little or no evidence. The level of condescension is utterly toxic.

    A simply search of your recent posts show just how much you keep going over the same points over and over. A search of mine will show me mostly focusing on the server I currently play on, and occasionally offering my opinion on new changes that have been announced. Something that I'm starting to regret given the toxicity of your responses. Yet somehow I'm the one resorting to insults?

    /facepalm
    Last edited by Katsa; 12-14-2021 at 08:01 PM.
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  12. #42
    Senior Member SLiFeR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    The 1 v 1 battle does nothing to disprove the imbalance in the game. The pikeman is using a legendary weapon for a start, many of the comments suggest the Jedi is using a weak template, and there's no way of knowing if an ADK'd PSG is being used (not to mention an ADK' LS as plenty of Jedi will have used theirs for a capped/near cap LS)
    Wrong.



    1. There's no confirm on the weapon type, only speculation. He's low rank, looks like Sentinel 2 or 3 at the bottom skill window. If it was a 3k LVA, the fight would be over in 20 seconds.
    2. The point is he's a Pikeman (the worst defense melee profession) and the Jedi can't hit him at all.
    3. He's Master Lightsaber/Master Enhancer, which was the most popular template back then. And it's still not a bad template today.
    4. Pretty clear Jedi are not 'overpowered' as you claimed.
    5. You don't PvP. Why do non-pvpers always want to change parts of the game they don't participate in?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post

    The group Jedi battle shows a large number of Jedi, but doesn't reflect what percentage of the server population that represents. I've never stated that there were hardly any Jedi, simply that they were rare back then. Make it easier to unlock a Jedi now, and even easier to build one to a full template and they will be more prevalent than ever before.

    If you need to have a quite specific build to 1 v 1 a Jedi, such as a melee stacker build, this then limits any PVE content greatly, and is therefore not well balanced. Give them a better source of protection vs LS allows for a better range of options.
    Wrong, again. Search SWG Pre-CU Lowca Jedi on YouTube. They were not rare. You are confused about when Jedi had Permadeath, that's when they were rare, because they could lose the character.



    Jedi are a big part of Star Wars - and a profession in SWG. It's time to accept it.

    And how does a stacker template "limit PvE" can they not twohandheadhit3 all the same? Absolutely ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post

    I'm not bitter about Jedi, I had my own Jedi Knight on live. I just don't see the argument that ADK's alone made Jedi useless.
    Obviously you didn't have one, or have one now.

    Look at this video from Basilisk. I made it as a joke.



    4 Jedi beating on 2 normie toons, one a squishy Combat Medic, and they can't kill them for 5+ minutes. Had they been riflemen instead of Jedi, it would have been over in 30 seconds. I'm on the Fencer/Doc that they called in for help to cure the jedi them and provide dot damage. They would have died 2v4 otherwise. Maybe we should nerf combat medic? I'd love to know where you get your information and experience from. ADKs dont make a difference. /s.



    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post

    Am I invested in Basilisk? Yes, I play on here regularly and I still enjoy it. I still voted for a new server, but that I would probably invest time into both. Please stop making blanket assumptions and generalizations about me based on little or no evidence. The level of condescension is utterly toxic.

    A simply search of your recent posts show just how much you keep going over the same points over and over. A search of mine will show me mostly focusing on the server I currently play on, and occasionally offering my opinion on new changes that have been announced. Something that I'm starting to regret given the toxicity of your responses. Yet somehow I'm the one resorting to insults?

    /facepalm
    Don't whine about 'toxicity'. Grow up. Don't come in to a thread to complain, then throw a fit when someone refutes you. You've been given options.

    Also, thanks for proving my point about you and Basilisk. Have fun on there while we get a better, authentic pre-cu experience.
    Last edited by SLiFeR; 12-14-2021 at 08:49 PM.
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  13. #43
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    I don't disagree with Dual Instance but imagine if the server does Pop off then how would you feel sitting watching a "Now Connecting" screen for 45+ minutes or more. Down the road I could see them open it up to two but at the start it could really suck..

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    If you need to have a quite specific build to 1 v 1 a Jedi, such as a melee stacker build, this then limits any PVE content greatly, and is therefore not well balanced.
    Umm wut?

    so your saying... any template should be able to beat a jedi because otherwise it imbalances PvE??? sorry i cant agree with this. EVERY template has a use both in pve AND PvP. melee gets huge defensive bonuses against jedi because they are suppose to. The game is rock
    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    I'm not bitter about Jedi, I had my own Jedi Knight on live. I just don't see the argument that ADK's alone made Jedi useless.
    Then i suggest you log into TC nova, make a jedi and try and hit a tkm melee stacker without a PSG. then try and hit a rifleman WITH a PSG and see what happens. I guarantee you pick the rifleman to fight every time. Now give the melee stacker a ADK'd psg and see what happens. Ive got no problem with ADK'd PSG's, as long as I can ADK my force bar.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    Am I invested in Basilisk? Yes, I play on here regularly and I still enjoy it. I still voted for a new server, but that I would probably invest time into both. Please stop making blanket assumptions and generalizations about me based on little or no evidence. The level of condescension is utterly toxic.

    A simply search of your recent posts show just how much you keep going over the same points over and over. A search of mine will show me mostly focusing on the server I currently play on, and occasionally offering my opinion on new changes that have been announced. Something that I'm starting to regret given the toxicity of your responses. Yet somehow I'm the one resorting to insults?

    /facepalm
    the problem is we all feel very strongly about any changes that are made to this game because of what happened with the CU. If you wish to engage in healthy debate, you need to be clear about your vested interests, the condescension in these posts is NOT going one way only. Not having played a Jedi in the current code base, makes your opinion little more than conjecture. You dont SEE the argument because you havn't experienced it. Again i think its important to engage in healthy debate, but your input would be much more valuable if you had experienced what he is talking about.

  15. #45
    Junior Member jmx's Avatar
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    we never knew the problems of adk psg on live. nobody did it. resist would fall off psg by going over server boundaries and pulling them out of the crate sometimes.

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