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Thread: New Play-Test Server Survey Results

  1. #16
    Senior Member SLiFeR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    8% of the registered accounts visit the forums. Isn't that the statistic that the decision to do an in game vote was based off? Am I missing where the rest of the suggestions came from?
    The forum poll gauged interest, got traction for a discussion, then the final decision making poll was done in game? What's the problem?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    Perhaps and in game vote on the new server (when launched) to get a more accurate representation for the desired/required changes would offer a more balanced result?
    Let's see how how many are playing when it's up, that should speak for itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    Personally, I can live without and ADK, and certainly without multiples, but I can also see the case for allowing at least one locked per account, preferably able to be equipped by either character. Admittedly facilitating this could be tricky.
    It's been discussed everywhere already, but ADKs were added as a '365 day subscription' carrot back in the day, and at the tail end of Pre-CU - once the game was pretty much over. For the majority of the game we didn't have them. SWGEmu is f2p so there's no need for 'carrots' that ruin the economy and balance of the game. (Breaking Jedi DPS with ADK PSGs, Legendary/Exceptional weapons being stuck on the server forever, keeping the same armor/weapons forever that hurts crafters.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    I can't remember when these were implemented into Live, however I assume it was pre 14.1 otherwise they never would have been introduced on Basilisk, so removing them entirely (or at least potentially at this stage) seems a strange way to go.
    They did it for testing purposes. Pretty much it.

    Overall, I'm not sure what your point is. You can tell by the Q & A thread, Discord, Youtube & Reddit comments, many people are stoked for this. That can only be beneficial to the project.
    Last edited by SLiFeR; 12-14-2021 at 09:13 AM.
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  2. #17
    Junior Member Katsa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLiFeR View Post
    The forum poll gauged interest, got traction for a discussion, then the final decision making poll was done in game? What's the problem?
    The in game poll hardly reflects the changes that were announced after the results of the poll and the release of the answers to the Q&A.
    Again, I'm failing to see where any suggestions from the majority of players came from other than simply the vocal minority on forums and an even smaller group outside of the forums such as discord.
    My point relates to the fact people voted without being aware of additional changes that would be made to a fresh/new server.
    The changes clearly aren't 14.1 compliant, otherwise surely they never would have been introduced into Basilisk in the first place?

    Quote Originally Posted by SLiFeR View Post
    Let's see how how many are playing when it's up, that should speak for itself.
    I'd have thought waiting to see how many people continue to play on the new server after 6 months, a year, 2 years etc would be a better gauge of the success, rather than the influx of new and returning players.
    I also fail to see the downside to asking ALL the player base what changes they would like to see through an in game vote on the new server, then taking a suitable amount of time to digest that data before implementing them.
    At least that way everyone's opinion is taken into consideration, and not just that of those who kick and scream for changes to be made.
    People who are content with how things are simply don't create thread after thread asking for things to be changed, hence the vocal minority appear to be getting their own way as a result of said kicking and screaming.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLiFeR View Post
    It's been discussed everywhere already, but ADKs were added as a '365 day subscription' carrot back in the day, and at the tail end of Pre-CU - once the game was pretty much over. For the majority of the game we didn't have them. SWGEmu is f2p so there's no need for 'carrots' that ruin the economy and balance of the game. (Breaking Jedi DPS with ADK PSGs, Legendary/Exceptional weapons being stuck on the server forever, keeping the same armor/weapons forever that hurts crafters.)
    I'm curious as to what evidence you have to support such a claim as to the reasoning behind SOE introducing ADKs back in the day, or what relevance it has especially given if they were introduced pre 14.1.
    If the end goal is meant to be 14.1 surely they should be part of 1.0 for good or bad.
    Breaking Jedi DPS seems to be a big issue for a lot of people, but I know for damn sure that Jedi being massively overpowered was and will be a big issue for a whole lot more.
    The impact it has on crafters would be minimal if it's one ADK per account, any suggestion that it would cripple the economy is simply not true. It simply offers people the chance to protect their investment in both time grinding credits, and acquiring the component parts to create the items in the first place or to gain some sort of lasting defense vs lightsaber damage.
    As for ruining the balance of the game I'm not sure what game you played back in the Live days, or any time since then. SWG has never been balanced, and few if any MMORPGs ever are. If for no other reason, people will always find the elite meta that breaks the balance.
    Removing ADKs is certainly not going to restore that, but perhaps reducing the possible LS resist cap for PSGs would better serve that goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLiFeR View Post
    They did it for testing purposes. Pretty much it.

    Overall, I'm not sure what your point is. You can tell by the Q & A thread, Discord, Youtube & Reddit comments, many people are stoked for this. That can only be beneficial to this project.
    Well I'm not the only one who has said that having the results of the Q & A available prior to the in game vote might have impacted how I voted. I'm not suggesting that people aren't excited to see where things go with a new server (I'm very much looking forward to it!), I'm simply stating that it would have been a better idea to allow people to make a more informed decision. Please tell me how that would have hurt the project?

    When less than 10% of the overall registered player base visit the forums, one would be safe to assume an even smaller percentage comment on posts relating to things like ADKs, SL buff range, FRS systems and all the other "hot topics" that get discussed on the forums, let alone on Discord, Reddit an Youtube.
    The in game vote was a great way to get a broader spectrum from which the devs can take the data and decide where to go with it, so why not try and find a way to see what changes the community as a whole would like to see made, and do more in game votes (preferably when there's a larger player base than we currently see)?
    Last edited by Katsa; 12-14-2021 at 10:11 AM.
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  3. #18
    Senior Member SLiFeR's Avatar
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    Here we go again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    The in game poll hardly reflects the changes that were announced after the results of the poll and the release of the answers to the Q&A. Again, I'm failing to see where any suggestions from the majority of players came from other than simply the vocal minority on forums and an even smaller group outside of the forums such as discord. My point relates to the fact people voted without being aware of additional changes that would be made to a fresh/new server.
    The changes clearly aren't 14.1 compliant, otherwise surely they never would have been introduced into Basilisk in the first place?
    14.1 compliant. How many 14.1 servers are out there besides Basilisk? Oh, zero - unpopular. I guess that's such a bad thing staff listened to feedback on the forums. Where else do you want ideas posted????? What's the purpose of a forum then if not for discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    I'd have thought waiting to see how many people continue to play on the new server after 6 months, a year, 2 years etc would be a better gauge of the success, rather than the influx of new and returning players.
    I also fail to see the downside to asking ALL the player base what changes they would like to see through an in game vote on the new server, then taking a suitable amount of time to digest that data before implementing them. At least that way everyone's opinion is taken into consideration, and not just that of those who kick and scream for changes to be made. People who are content with how things are simply don't create thread after thread asking for things to be changed, hence the vocal minority appear to be getting their own way as a result of said kicking and screaming.
    It seems you are the only one kicking and screaming over nothing, not us. Vocal Minority? Are you sure you aren't in the minority? Maybe you could have added your input in the thread with the others, I looked at your post history, you are active on the forums. Maybe you should listen to your own advice and wait and see, instead of making something out of nothing. Otherwise, I see a lot of happy people around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    I'm curious as to what evidence you have to support such a claim as to the reasoning behind SOE introducing ADKs back in the day, or what relevance it has especially given if they were introduced pre 14.1. If the end goal is meant to be 14.1 surely they should be part of 1.0 for good or bad. Breaking Jedi DPS seems to be a big issue for a lot of people, but I know for damn sure that Jedi being massively overpowered was and will be a big issue for a whole lot more.
    The impact it has on crafters would be minimal if it's one ADK per account, any suggestion that it would cripple the economy is simply not true. It simply offers people the chance to protect their investment in both time grinding credits, and acquiring the component parts to create the items in the first place or to gain some sort of lasting defense vs lightsaber damage.
    As for ruining the balance of the game I'm not sure what game you played back in the Live days, or any time since then. SWG has never been balanced, and few if any MMORPGs ever are. If for no other reason, people will always find the elite meta that breaks the balance. Removing ADKs is certainly not going to restore that, but perhaps reducing the possible LS resist cap for PSGs would better serve that goal.
    So you want to modify LS resist on PSGs (something PSGs always had on live) but you want ADKs, which barely existed on live. Got it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    Well I'm not the only one who has said that having the results of the Q & A available prior to the in game vote might have impacted how I voted. I'm not suggesting that people aren't excited to see where things go with a new server (I'm very much looking forward to it!), I'm simply stating that it would have been a better idea to allow people to make a more informed decision. Please tell me how that would have hurt the project?

    When less than 10% of the overall registered player base visit the forums, one would be safe to assume an even smaller percentage comment on posts relating to things like ADKs, SL buff range, FRS systems and all the other "hot topics" that get discussed on the forums, let alone on Discord, Reddit an Youtube. The in game vote was a great way to get a broader spectrum from which the devs can take the data and decide where to go with it, so why not try and find a way to see what the community as a whole would like to see made, and do more in game votes (preferably when there's a larger player base than we currently see)?
    Then stay on Basilisk for '14.1'? They are giving everyone a choice where to play. There's no need to act like you are forced to do anything. Staff joined the discussion with us, and made the best decisions they could. You're active on the forums, why are you complaining a discussion happened on the forums, and how it would affect your vote? It's contradictory. Because you didn't participate? Seems like you need to sort that out on your end. Nitpicking at this point is just absurd.
    Last edited by SLiFeR; 12-14-2021 at 12:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RecksRacer View Post
    You should have given the additional server details that you listed on the main page BEFORE the survey. it wouldve changed the results im sure.
    Bingo!

    As they have mentioned though it is a fluid server that can see changes made to help it survive. I predict additional slots over two and two instances will be the first change as that really crushes the new server.

    I was all about a new server and voted to play exclusively on it till the server details were made.

    Now I will most likely stay active on Bas and just tinker with the new server....but who knows.

  5. #20
    Senior Member SLiFeR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syphilis View Post
    Bingo!

    As they have mentioned though it is a fluid server that can see changes made to help it survive. I predict additional slots over two and two instances will be the first change as that really crushes the new server.

    I was all about a new server and voted to play exclusively on it till the server details were made.

    Now I will most likely stay active on Bas and just tinker with the new server....but who knows.
    What changes do you have an issue with, exactly? You mention character slots and toons online in your post. Is that it? You know for 1.0 this was already confirmed basically, correct? Nobody had 10 toons in 2004, very few had more than 1 account for 2 online at once.

    Staff had an open discussion with us about suggestions. You don't need 1 of everything. That's the point of having a community driven economy.

    As I said in another post, Basilisk has been up for far too long, you're conditioned to think that's how the game should be. Other servers have been limiting this for a while and everything is fine.
    Last edited by SLiFeR; 12-14-2021 at 11:41 AM.
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    I really don't understand why people cant see it, its perfectly simple.

    you have 500 skill points spread across 2 characters that you can spend on whatever you want. you can swap and change templates as much as you want, limited only by the speed it takes you to grind.

    If every player has a doctor, entertainer, weaponsmith, armoursmith, arcitect, bioengineer, chef, DE, BH, commando, jedi, melee tank, and smuggler, then what need is there for them to interact with anyone else at all? They are completely self sufficient.


    I would say people forget too easy, but lets face it, its 18 years since swg launched. the reason WHY we loved this game, is BECAUSE it forced you to interact with others, I forged so many friendships because i needed a specific item or profession, and because they provided a quality good or service, i came back to them, and we talked about other things separate to business.

    You will not see a reduction in players due to reduced character slots, you will see an increase. SWGEMU is the only provider that has a platform to do this, other servers have tried but because the player base was so small it could not sustain a restriction of character slots. Now we finally have a chance to make this work with 2 character slots, and people want to go back to easy mode. I promise the in game economy will be a million times healthier as a result of the 2 character limit.

  7. #22
    Junior Member Spade13's Avatar
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    For me the finalizer slots and multi instancing are perfect.The remove of some vet rewards is the cherry top.Lets see ,what happens ,im excited and will play on finalizer again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Katsa View Post
    I think the point is that people may prefer certain changes not be made, whilst still getting a fresh server.

    Or at the very least, a vote for what changes be implemented rather than bending to a small vocal groups desires.

    Regardless of what changes happen, you'll never please everyone so I guess it's just a rock and a hard place scenario.
    Quote Originally Posted by neutrineaux View Post
    I was figuring more people might have voted for 100% Finalizer.
    Im not claiming it would either one or the other, just different. I guess we will never know now.

  9. #24
    Senior Member SLiFeR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkiller01 View Post
    I really don't understand why people cant see it, its perfectly simple.

    you have 500 skill points spread across 2 characters that you can spend on whatever you want. you can swap and change templates as much as you want, limited only by the speed it takes you to grind.

    If every player has a doctor, entertainer, weaponsmith, armoursmith, arcitect, bioengineer, chef, DE, BH, commando, jedi, melee tank, and smuggler, then what need is there for them to interact with anyone else at all? They are completely self sufficient.


    I would say people forget too easy, but lets face it, its 18 years since swg launched. the reason WHY we loved this game, is BECAUSE it forced you to interact with others, I forged so many friendships because i needed a specific item or profession, and because they provided a quality good or service, i came back to them, and we talked about other things separate to business.

    You will not see a reduction in players due to reduced character slots, you will see an increase. SWGEMU is the only provider that has a platform to do this, other servers have tried but because the player base was so small it could not sustain a restriction of character slots. Now we finally have a chance to make this work with 2 character slots, and people want to go back to easy mode. I promise the in game economy will be a million times healthier as a result of the 2 character limit.
    Yeah, exactly. God forbid we make some minor adjustments that give us the feel back of 2004. Which we would expect in 1.0.

    Some of these posters are complaining just for the sake of it.
    Last edited by SLiFeR; 12-14-2021 at 12:42 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkiller01 View Post
    I really don't understand why people cant see it, its perfectly simple.

    you have 500 skill points spread across 2 characters that you can spend on whatever you want. you can swap and change templates as much as you want, limited only by the speed it takes you to grind.

    If every player has a doctor, entertainer, weaponsmith, armoursmith, arcitect, bioengineer, chef, DE, BH, commando, jedi, melee tank, and smuggler, then what need is there for them to interact with anyone else at all? They are completely self sufficient.


    I would say people forget too easy, but lets face it, its 18 years since swg launched. the reason WHY we loved this game, is BECAUSE it forced you to interact with others, I forged so many friendships because i needed a specific item or profession, and because they provided a quality good or service, i came back to them, and we talked about other things separate to business.

    You will not see a reduction in players due to reduced character slots, you will see an increase. SWGEMU is the only provider that has a platform to do this, other servers have tried but because the player base was so small it could not sustain a restriction of character slots. Now we finally have a chance to make this work with 2 character slots, and people want to go back to easy mode. I promise the in game economy will be a million times healthier as a result of the 2 character limit.
    This is really a strawman argument tbh. NOBDOY is going to play 10 classes at once or 12 like you listed and be anywhere near as good at them as somebody that focuses on just a couple. Sure you can be seven things at once, but this new thing called time will prevent you from being excellent at them all.

    Somebody playing 10 guys at once is not going to make the top quality gear and NEWSFLASH, they will still be interdependent because you just cant harvest and make EVERYTHING faster than you can simply buy it.

    Ten is too many, 2 is too few for the current pop.

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    Senior Member SLiFeR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RecksRacer View Post
    This is really a strawman argument tbh. NOBDOY is going to play 10 classes at once or 12 like you listed and be anywhere near as good at them as somebody that focuses on just a couple. Sure you can be seven things at once, but this new thing called time will prevent you from being excellent at them all.

    Somebody playing 10 guys at once is not going to make the top quality gear and NEWSFLASH, they will still be interdependent because you just cant harvest and make EVERYTHING faster than you can simply buy it.

    Ten is too many, 2 is too few for the current pop.
    Have you been on Basilisk..?

    Hilarious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RecksRacer View Post
    This is really a strawman argument tbh. NOBDOY is going to play 10 classes at once or 12 like you listed and be anywhere near as good at them as somebody that focuses on just a couple. Sure you can be seven things at once, but this new thing called time will prevent you from being excellent at them all.

    Somebody playing 10 guys at once is not going to make the top quality gear and NEWSFLASH, they will still be interdependent because you just cant harvest and make EVERYTHING faster than you can simply buy it.

    Ten is too many, 2 is too few for the current pop.
    its not a straw man argument, and if you look at the economy on bas, you will see why. making top quality gear is not about "time" as you put it. its about having the correct tapes, and the best resources. now it doesn't matter if you are a crafter or not, if you are not collecting the best resources from day 1, you are not playing the game right.

    top tier items are easy to create, the best crafters are not known for crafting the best stuff, its about CONSISTENTLY crafting the best stuff. people use those vendors because they are reliable, not because they get an extra point over the next guy. its about having a good product that is readily available, so even a player who is as good an armoursmith as someone else, if he is too focused on his jedi grind, people wont use him because he is not consistent with providing a quality product.

  13. #28
    Senior Member SLiFeR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starkiller01 View Post
    its not a straw man argument, and if you look at the economy on bas, you will see why. making top quality gear is not about "time" as you put it. its about having the correct tapes, and the best resources. now it doesn't matter if you are a crafter or not, if you are not collecting the best resources from day 1, you are not playing the game right.

    top tier items are easy to create, the best crafters are not known for crafting the best stuff, its about CONSISTENTLY crafting the best stuff. people use those vendors because they are reliable, not because they get an extra point over the next guy. its about having a good product that is readily available, so even a player who is as good an armoursmith as someone else, if he is too focused on his jedi grind, people wont use him because he is not consistent with providing a quality product.
    Which is usually why most shops were self sufficient and made armor, weapons, meds, clothing, droids, food, spice, etc, all in one place. And they were high end of course.

    I have a Jedi, Swordsman, Fencer, TKM, Rifleman, Pikeman, on my account - all separate toons and all have the best weapons/armor/tapes.

    His statement made no sense whatsoever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLiFeR View Post
    What changes do you have an issue with, exactly? You mention character slots and toons online in your post. Is that it? You know for 1.0 this was already confirmed basically, correct? Nobody had 10 toons in 2004, very few had more than 1 account for 2 online at once.

    Staff had an open discussion with us about suggestions. You don't need 1 of everything. That's the point of having a community driven economy.

    As I said in another post, Basilisk has been up for far too long, you're conditioned to think that's how the game should be. Other servers have been limiting this for a while and everything is fine.
    I think it is a reaction too far.

    10 toons is too many I agree.

    A better compromise would have been 2-3 toons with maybe a Jedi unlock and still allow two instances.

    I just don't see a population high enough to support 2 toons with only 1 instance...but hopefully am wrong.

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    If they allowed 2 instances we'd end up with 1500 pop dual logged how is that better than 3000 unique?

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