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Thread: Clone Wars, The Exploit... Item cleanup.

  1. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by cmurphy50 View Post
    The thing is, it doesn't matter what the community wants. They have been clear from the start that Basilisk is an alpha/beta environment. They do not want to wipe the server because building the database is just as important for testing. They aren't here to provide this game as a service, this is a project. We are the ones providing THEM a service by assisting with testing. Too many people think they are owed something, and I bet none of them ever did **** to advance the development of this game. More people need to just be happy to play SWG.

    You have obviously never coded before. 8 years of code... testing.. My point isn't an argument for the communities wants. From a coding / testing perspective, diminishing returns had to have started years ago. A server wipe, with base code (including all code changes that have been done to date),
    would produce better results for game progression. Players once again interested in crafting, and gathering resources, and playing the whole game in general from scratch. Then being able to see all the code in action.

  2. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Permetheus View Post
    You have obviously never coded before. 8 years of code... testing.. My point isn't an argument for the communities wants. From a coding / testing perspective, diminishing returns had to have started years ago. A server wipe, with base code (including all code changes that have been done to date),
    would produce better results for game progression. Players once again interested in crafting, and gathering resources, and playing the whole game in general from scratch. Then being able to see all the code in action.
    I don't see what my coding experience has to do with this. If they want to wipe they will, turns out that isn't until they have a 14.1/1.0 server. They've said before maintaining the same database is important for testing, otherwise don't you think they'd have wiped the whole thing ages ago when they saw the initial exploiting? Instead they've gone through all these months of trouble reversing and repairing it all in order to continue to be able to test with the same database. We'll start from scratch and see all the code in action when the project advances to the next stage.

  3. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by cmurphy50 View Post
    I don't see what my coding experience has to do with this. If they want to wipe they will, turns out that isn't until they have a 14.1/1.0 server. They've said before maintaining the same database is important for testing, otherwise don't you think they'd have wiped the whole thing ages ago when they saw the initial exploiting? Instead they've gone through all these months of trouble reversing and repairing it all in order to continue to be able to test with the same database. We'll start from scratch and see all the code in action when the project advances to the next stage.
    Experience with coding has everything to do with it. The current approach to how they are testing is very 90's. Here is a good read for you that may bring you up to speed. https://www.hava.io/blog/cattle-vs-p...0family%20pets.

    The point being that 14.1 code base is the target.
    Iterative sprints with a devops model is the fastest way.
    Keeping a test server around for 8 years for the purpose of testing code without a reset is unheard of and very archaic.

    That said, I have tremendous respect for the Devs and what they have done. To dedicate themselves on a volunteer basis to this project is simply awesome.

    I'm very thankful. Just trying to offer a useless opinion.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Permetheus View Post
    The point being that 14.1 code base is the target.
    Iterative sprints with a devops model is the fastest way.
    Keeping a test server around for 8 years for the purpose of testing code without a reset is unheard of and very archaic.
    We're getting enormously valuable data on the Basilisk economy in its current state that we can use to correct errors and close gaps, so we don't develop the same errors and gaps in 1.0.

    There is still very much benefit to running Basilisk.
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  5. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Farelli View Post
    We're getting enormously valuable data on the Basilisk economy in its current state that we can use to correct errors and close gaps, so we don't develop the same errors and gaps in 1.0.

    There is still very much benefit to running Basilisk.
    How does the current economy provide real value due to the millions of credits that have been tainted due to the duping exploit? Items have been removed, accounts have been banned. But the underlying currency has been poisoned and spread throughout the server. You will be closing gaps and making adjustments based on skewed data.

    But, if you feel there is still value, carry on. You are the ones doing the work, not me.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Permetheus View Post
    How does the current economy provide real value due to the millions of credits that have been tainted due to the duping exploit? Items have been removed, accounts have been banned. But the underlying currency has been poisoned and spread throughout the server. You will be closing gaps and making adjustments based on skewed data.

    But, if you feel there is still value, carry on. You are the ones doing the work, not me.
    Million plus transactions a day, that's a big value, seeing how people interact, ways we can measure behaviors, develop tools to handle cheating, but also provide input to product decisions we have to make.

    That said the places its most valuable at are scale, things like 200k objects in the auction system and people killing NPC's and running missions, leveling, etc.

    At some point, these become less useful and a wipe makes sense.

    That said "approaching with a DevOps point of view" is literally the entire way our systems are set up, happy to walk people through it at some point.

    However nobody would play if we wiped every couple of days, there has to be a balance in there somewhere...
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  7. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by lordkator View Post
    Million plus transactions a day, that's a big value, seeing how people interact, ways we can measure behaviors, develop tools to handle cheating, but also provide input to product decisions we have to make.

    That said the places its most valuable at are scale, things like 200k objects in the auction system and people killing NPC's and running missions, leveling, etc.

    At some point, these become less useful and a wipe makes sense.

    That said "approaching with a DevOps point of view" is literally the entire way our systems are set up, happy to walk people through it at some point.

    However nobody would play if we wiped every couple of days, there has to be a balance in there somewhere...
    Totally makes sense. I understand nobody would play with servers being wiped frequently. I don't mean to criticize at all. I was just looking for the value of keeping the current setup, and you have explained that. You are in the trenches so to speak, and know what
    does and doesn't provide value. It's easy for us on the outside to poke holes in things we know nothing about. Based on the data I see (limited), I still contend:

    - 8 Years is enough time for an initial run. Before launching 1.0 it would be nice to see what a brand new server release would look like. How fast does the economy grow? How fast do people grind up professions? How do resource spawns progress?
    How does the new anti-cheat code work? (I contend that you unban cheaters. Use them as an unofficial Red Team. Current law enforcement bureau's are filled with previous Black Hats turned good). At this point it may be a bit late to have them try to hack / dupe
    /cheat, but to truly test anti-cheat code, you need a really good Red Team / audit process. (I'm not by any means suggesting they be given a clean slate. Simply use them. Keep IP's geo marked as bad actors. Perhaps prevent them from future production 1.0 as punishment? up to you)
    - Release of fresh test server should take place a few months before 1.0 is released to truly test the progression of game.

    Again. Kator. I can't praise you enough. You are doing an outstanding job.

    Permetheus

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by lordkator View Post
    ways we can measure behaviors

    uh I can totally explain unless you saw nothing and then I have no idea what you're talking about
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  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmurphy50 View Post
    The thing is, it doesn't matter what the community wants. They have been clear from the start that Basilisk is an alpha/beta environment. They do not want to wipe the server because building the database is just as important for testing. They aren't here to provide this game as a service, this is a project. We are the ones providing THEM a service by assisting with testing. Too many people think they are owed something, and I bet none of them ever did **** to advance the development of this game. More people need to just be happy to play SWG.
    I still wonder why people still insist on playing on this server. You've been treated like a dirty tester with no saying on things for 1 and a half decades with them still expecting you to pay the bills.
    14.1 pre-cu is absolutely an outdated Star Wars 3D chat room, if you can't get over SWG, at least find somewhere better to play. I mean, how can this ( https://www.twitch.tv/rischie/video/706729992 ) be any fun? Literally two hours of Drain Force each other and the fight finally ends when one guy loses his doc buffs.
    My PhD thesis will focus on the brain of an individual who chooses to play on Basilisk out of his own free will.

    And before a sycophant comes telling me how much I should be thankful, I haven't had an interest in this project for years (have buried SWG and my nostalgia a long time ago), just popping here and there to see how things went.

    P.S. Also expecting a moderator to censor the crap out of me because in today's world, you cannot be critical... Ever!

  10. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Yog-Sothoth View Post
    I still wonder why people still insist on playing on this server. You've been treated like a dirty tester with no saying on things for 1 and a half decades with them still expecting you to pay the bills.
    14.1 pre-cu is absolutely an outdated Star Wars 3D chat room, if you can't get over SWG, at least find somewhere better to play. I mean, how can this ( https://www.twitch.tv/rischie/video/706729992 ) be any fun? Literally two hours of Drain Force each other and the fight finally ends when one guy loses his doc buffs.
    My PhD thesis will focus on the brain of an individual who chooses to play on Basilisk out of his own free will.

    And before a sycophant comes telling me how much I should be thankful, I haven't had an interest in this project for years (have buried SWG and my nostalgia a long time ago), just popping here and there to see how things went.

    P.S. Also expecting a moderator to censor the crap out of me because in today's world, you cannot be critical... Ever!
    Adjust PhD thesis to focus on the brain of an individual who chooses to revisit and post on forums of a game he has no interest in, of his own free will.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Permetheus View Post
    Adjust PhD thesis to focus on the brain of an individual who chooses to revisit and post on forums of a game he has no interest in, of his own free will.
    Yeah, 5 minutes every couple of months or so to see where a project that I used to watch and contribute to is currently at surely is the exact same thing. Nice mental gymnastic though.
    Look at my post history genius.

    It's actually quite telling that the drama is the only entertainment I still get from this project.

  12. #57
    The problem with wanting a wipe is that whether it's you or someone else, in the future, will also want a wipe, and the desire for wiping never ends .. someone always wants a wipe so therefore all desires for a wipe are moot.
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  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yog-Sothoth View Post
    I still wonder why people still insist on playing on this server. You've been treated like a dirty tester with no saying on things for 1 and a half decades with them still expecting you to pay the bills.
    14.1 pre-cu is absolutely an outdated Star Wars 3D chat room, if you can't get over SWG, at least find somewhere better to play. I mean, how can this ( https://www.twitch.tv/rischie/video/706729992 ) be any fun? Literally two hours of Drain Force each other and the fight finally ends when one guy loses his doc buffs.
    My PhD thesis will focus on the brain of an individual who chooses to play on Basilisk out of his own free will.

    And before a sycophant comes telling me how much I should be thankful, I haven't had an interest in this project for years (have buried SWG and my nostalgia a long time ago), just popping here and there to see how things went.

    P.S. Also expecting a moderator to censor the crap out of me because in today's world, you cannot be critical... Ever!
    It wasn’t fun, but after a couple drinks who knows where the night can take you!

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForceFielding View Post
    The problem with wanting a wipe is that whether it's you or someone else, in the future, will also want a wipe, and the desire for wiping never ends .. someone always wants a wipe so therefore all desires for a wipe are moot.
    And the heat death of the universe will consume it all.. But we keep going ahead pretending like it all matters anyway...

    The challenge is balancing wipe vs when it makes sense, eventually even a new server will die (again end of the universe and all that) but we should endeavor to start on as stable a base as we can and keep it clean out of the gate. Much of Basilisk’s issues are due to evolving code that left crazy items in game and having 10 characters per account breaks the interdependent nature of the game’s design.

    The new server won’t be perfect, but our goals will be about long term continuation of the server, cleaning up cheaters quickly and removing accidental item spawns etc. Additionally we will look to solicit community contributions to content, new features and experiences for the player base. We will focus the new environment less on stress testing and more on having a fun environment to enjoy the game over a very long period of time.
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    As stated in other threads they were invisible, literally the next morning they were returned, if you think you did not get the ADK back contact support.
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