SWGEmu - 1.0 and the future of JTL

[TaraDarktide]

I know nothing of programming, but thanks you guys for all you've done to make the game I love available to adventure in! It means a great deal to me to be able to "live" in this world (though my characters die frequently). As someone once said, I plan to be here till the lights go out.

[Windwalker4u]

Since JTL is "different game" why not ask devs from other active SWG servers to give to SWG emu space game. Buying is also option from my POV.
other teams already solved those issues, just ask them.

[Vlada]

Since JTL is "different game" why not ask devs from other active SWG servers to give to SWG emu space game. Buying is also option from my POV.
other teams already solved those issues, just ask them.

[Big-N-Buff]

Since JTL is "different game" why not ask devs from other active SWG servers to give to SWG emu space game. Buying is also option from my POV.
other teams already solved those issues, just ask them.

It's been stated about eleventy two times (in this thread alone) that those "devs" from other SWG servers are using illegal/stolen code, so that's not an option. Did you not read any of this thread?

[nostyleguy]

A lot of this discussion has focused on the non-technical contributing factors (time, passion, etc) and impacts (faster to 1.0, community perception of devs, etc) of this decision. That is great for the community to hear and discuss.

However, I'm curious if there is room, now, to discuss the technical aspects of the problem? I think Thrax989 wasn't wrong when he said it's hard to contribute to JTL.
This announcement came as a bit of a shock to me, even though I read every post in the development forum and frequently read commits in gerrit. I even used to lurk in the opendev IRC channel all day while at work because the development of this project is so fascinating to me. As a full-time C++ developer of 3D simulations (albeit non-networked) for a DOD contractor, JTL is the area of the project I am most interested in, but I feel like it's a mysterious enigma of a problem that nobody wants talk about. In an ideal world, all the work that has been put into it already, even fruitlessly, would be publicly available (through public forks of the repository, more open forums, wiki, etc). This would allow prospective developers a chance to understand the real technical challenges being faced.


This list from the closed thread:

* JTL is a space game, the ground game is not really 3d, so we need different spatial indexing tech
* In space, projectiles "tick" (they move in a direction with a velocity) and they collide with another object, on the ground you can't dodge a rifle shot, in space you can dodge a missile.
* Since the game was written by different devs, some subtle things are different like the coordinate system is not the same as the ground game (i.e. x/z/y etc.)
* core3 was not designed for "ticks", we might be able to hack it in but it would be a nightmare

Makes any real hope of implementing JTL in the current engine seem technically infeasible. However, the devs in this thread have implied JTL is still possible in the current engine, given enough time/interest. What are the dev team's current ideas of how to solve these problems? What has been tried? Is Oru on board to update the engine? Or would the solutions work within the limitations of the engine?

None of what I wrote above is intended to insult or blame the current devs. I just want to offer the perspective of a capable outsider who would *love* to contribute to JTL, but doesn't know how.

[lordkator]

...I just want to offer the perspective of a capable outsider who would *love* to contribute to JTL, but doesn't know how.

Join the team!

See: Development Team is Recruiting

[Lolindir]

A dev will probably comment your thoughts, what I would suggest though, if you are honestly interested in contributing, contact the devs that has posted and start a dialog. We are open for dev recruitment, we always have. Especially for this. Most of our staff are willing to help people who show that they are dedicated and willing to commit.

[reoze]

Yikes

None of this is as difficult as it sounds. It's much more the time involved than the difficulty of code. If someone wants to take up developing and maintaining (key word) a 3d spatial partitioning system (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octree) the rest of everything mentioned is an easily solvable problem.


Everything to do with ships I implemented in JTL. You can fit components, fly around, shoot weapons, use POB's, spawn star destroyers. Contrary to what LK said, collision does actually work. Both between ships and between projectiles. It's just horribly inefficient and likely to change drastically whenever t
e systems are written to actually MMOify the ****.

With that said, JTL is not in active development. I do not have the time or brainpower left to manage a new partitioning scheme ontop of everything else that would need to be done for JTL. We've gone about as far as we can without writing the supporting architecture.

[lordkator]

Yikes

None of this is as difficult as it sounds.

Never said it was difficult.. Said we don't have anyone dedicated to do it.

[Dkoraa]

I am literally just here to say THANKS! This game, in any form is still a total joy to have and so many have put SO MUCH into it. Every time I sign in I smile so, if it never evolves a single bite more, Id still be thrilled.

[Praxi34]

Keep up the good work team. 99% of the SWG community love you for it. The 1% like to voice an opinion, usually a negative one but it doesn't represent the thousands of people waiting in the wind.

I personally think the decision is spot on.

[LordSniper]

I joined right before the launch of JTL, it was definitely a fun addition to swg. However id be happy to get back to dant and join a simple grind party again and rank up for pvp.. there was more than just space. Even with jtl on hold, the only nice thing from it which is not to be expected would be the intsatransport or simply owning a spaceship to go from planet to planet otherwise.. no biggie .

Thank you for the hard work you guys put into the game.

[Praxi34]

Also look at WoW classic for example. Thousands and thousands have come back for that game and this game was around the same time as SWG - Its main competitor if i remember correctly. Im sat in a 5k queue right now to get onto just one of the servers.

[Big-N-Buff]

Also look at WoW classic for example. Thousands and thousands have come back for that game and this game was around the same time as SWG - Its main competitor if i remember correctly. Im sat in a 5k queue right now to get onto just one of the servers.

Millions have actually gone back for WoW Classic, but that aside, SWG was never really a "competitor" of WoW. It was definitely a game with a formula that SWG tried to emulate (leading to the CU and NGE), but SWG wasn't even in the ballpark to competing with WoW let alone being its main competitor. I could be wrong, but I think according to the "Death of a Game: SWG" video on YouTube, SWG had about 500k subs for a short time during its peak, but I haven't seen the video for a while if someone else wants to verify.

[Farelli]

Millions have actually gone back for WoW Classic, but that aside, SWG was never really a "competitor" of WoW. It was definitely a game with a formula that SWG tried to emulate (leading to the CU and NGE), but SWG wasn't even in the ballpark to competing with WoW let alone being its main competitor. I could be wrong, but I think according to the "Death of a Game: SWG" video on YouTube, SWG had about 500k subs for a short time during its peak, but I haven't seen the video for a while if someone else wants to verify.

SWG and WoW were never competitors because they are not an 'apples-for-apples' product comparison.

Trying to pit them as such caused the downfall of SWG. They have two different fanbases, i.e., customer profiles. SOE failed to recognize that fact.