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Thread: SWGEmu - 1.0 and the future of JTL

  1. #46
    The Vlada Vlada's Avatar
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    Lets recap, and I can't believe i have to type this...
    1. Former SOE, now Daybreak Game Company aren't going to give us anything. Disney and LA though, if we push hard enough might send us a cease and desist, if we're lucky. If not, a lawsuit that keep us in court for the rest of our natural lives, maybe longer.
    2. We are not going to use illegally obtained source code, not now, not ever. We're not even going to discuss it here again. (Don't do it, infractions and bans will follow)
    3. We're not giving up on anything, we're just trying to tell you what the situation is atm. If things miraculously change, we will of course let you know.
    4. Devs are not the bad guys, stop viewing them as such.
    5. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, it's just something that happened beyond our control, what we as a community do with it, is entirely on us.
    6. And maybe instead of pining over what might have been, get excited about what is about to be.
    Hugs and Kisses

    The Vlada


    vlada@swgemu.com | www.swgemu.com
    SWGEmu is a non-profit, open source project.
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  2. #47
    I for once have to say I like Vlada's post. The one right above my current post here. The guys who have dedicated so much of their free time to this project are never going to do something that they think will put what they've spent nearly a decade working on in jeopardy.

    Now to the rest of the community, JTL was an entirely 2nd game when you look at it from a coding stand point. If you do not posses the skills to be able to help them create it then please just stop complaining that we will not have it any time soon. You are getting to enjoy the game at about 85% completion. I will say JTL was tops 15% of the actual game we all enjoyed so long ago.

    I myself am only just getting into coding for the most part and to hear that this game is over 500,000 lines of code is daunting to say the least, not to mention that c++ is a pain in the *** to learn.

    Everyone should be happy that once we land at 1.0 we can all start fresh on a new server, hopefully with character limits and other new rules implemented to help get rid of some of the bad things we experience on basilisk.

    My true personal feeling is that if you have done nothing to contribute to this project other then play on basilisk then, really you don't have any right to ask or even demand that certain aspects be brought to light prior to 1.0 release. The countless 1,000's of hours that have gone into getting the project this far is amazing. Many of the players on his project won't even volunteer time to test fixes on nova, yet are basically demanding that the devs volunteer even more of their time to get JTL here.

    Be happy with what we have and what we are going to have in the future. There is an endless amount of new content the current and future dev team can give us on this project that doesn't involve space and makes the game even better for the community.

    Enjoy the current and future game, or donate your time to helping them complete the project.

    Thanks

    Drop off location @ SEM Rogue Squadron Combat Meds Vendor. Thanks


  3. #48
    As soon as I thought it over, JTL not being in the game doesn't break the experience for me. And being closer to 1.0 is a more logical goal in the end.

    Keep up the great work guys and gals!


    - Sergion

  4. #49
    I'm mostly happy with this change tbh... New server and new rules, moving away from that strict 14.1 will do swgemu a lot of good... Hopefully other servers that have been running additional content could pitch in and we can finally move on and get something we all have been waiting and craving for... I'm not gonna lie, I've been playing on another server for last few months... Was there from start with bunch of new content and its been a breath of fresh air so to say... I still jump on bas from time to time, but so much toxicity allowed by some people, unbalanced stuff, abused system is judt major turn off, I have 2 private servers that I host for my self, to test out code, and just mess around so I'm still dedicated, just not so much anymore to play on basilisk due to all I said... Hopefully suncrusher will change that when that time comes ps! Got nothing bad to say about our devs, just keep on pushing... Many of us still support you and would gladly help in any way we can swg forever
    Chef:Food and Drinks / Bio-Engineer:Pets, Foods, StimPacks, VitalityPacks // Vendors @ -IO- Imperial Outpost Tatooine:/way -1924 -6596 Santee's Place

  5. #50
    Junior Member xirad's Avatar
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    Well put Vlada. And come on folks, who in their right mind would see the devs as bad guys???? Seriously! Without the dedication of their skills and countless years spent doing this for free we would have NOTHING but memories. We have a nearly fully playable game sans JTL. I always think it's interesting when Bas is referred to as alpha. I have been playing like I did on Live sans some features for YEARS now. And I think that's where some folks forget that this game is still being actively developed despite it feeling so damn solid and complete!

    Yes, I loved JTL back in the day and spent probably 50% of my time in space. But you can see from my profile I've had an account with the EMU since 2008 and have played off/on over the last decade. It's been nothing short of amazing how far along the game has come from those early days and I'm still astounded the dedication the Team (and I mean everyone, from the devs to the QAs to the CSRs to the forum moderators) has had still after all these years.

    I as well would rather have 1.0/Suncrusher and a brand new fresh start for everyone sooner rather than later and if it means a delay to JTL, so be it. There are other space games right now to get your Space-On and I believe when JTL comes we'll still be impressed with how well the graphics and gameplay have held up over the years.

    So to the entire SWGEMU Team, I say thank you for keeping the dream alive and letting me escape the daily grind of reality to continue my virtual life in the SWG universe, the universe I fell in love with waaaaay back in that summer of 2004!

    Xir

    P.s. Just have a look what has been implemented!

    https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75
    Last edited by xirad; 09-02-2019 at 01:53 AM.

  6. #51
    Addicted Walking carpet's Avatar
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    Im sorry If I upset anyone but I just cant believe whats happening and very disappointed,cause maybe some players love the ground game 80% to JTL but my game was space 80% and highly PvP so you can understand my downfall

    Like I said I dont mind you releasing the ground game before JTL but
    with all that been said i estimate the chances of getting JTL to be 20%
    am I right? if not what percentage would you estimate LK ?
    Last edited by Walking carpet; 09-02-2019 at 02:22 AM.
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  7. #52
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    1) Expressing disappointment is not the same thing as complaining.
    2) JTL wasn't 15% of the game for everyone.
    3) There are already new servers with imbalance fixes, new content, and all that good stuff.
    4) Nobody is ungrateful or unaware of the scale of the task the devs have already accomplished.

    We each have different priorities and interests. E.g I only created an account here because I wanted to play JTL again. I have very little interest in the ground game beyond mining resources that I can use for Shipwright. I accept that is a minority position and I have no problem waiting for JTL to come after everything else. That's what we were told from the beginning.

    But it is disappointing to learn that the server architecture needs such radical changes and specialized expertise to even get a prototype running. That's not a comment or reflection on the dedication or skill or any aspect of the development team. And it's not an ungrateful demand.

    My understanding was that the packet structures had been reverse engineered years ago, that we had basically all of the information required, and it was a matter of manpower to get to the finish line once the ground features had been done. I thought the fundamentals were in place or at least understood well enough to keep chipping away at the task. I thought there was good potential for progress. And that's partly because the public info looked more promising than what we're now learning.

    I don't want to be put into the category of an ungrateful complainer by people who can take or leave the JTL experience. Speak for yourselves because you're not speaking for me. Don't try and create this idea that people who are disappointed should put up or shut up, that they don't know what they're talking about, or that they're upset with the development team. I can be disappointed without being any of those other things.
    Last edited by Bulba; 09-02-2019 at 02:27 AM.

  8. #53
    Have always thought leaving JTL till last was a sensible course of action, since the ground game has more than enough foibles to keep a team occupied for the next decade. It's a little disappointing to hear it's impractical to implement with the current engine, but also not really a surprise. That there's been as much progress on the ground game is miraculous enough.

    Have also always thought it's a missed opportunity for the emulator not to correct some of the obvious flaws in the game as development proceeds, rather than recreating it bugs and all. Getting to Suncrusher/1.0 sooner is a good thing, as we'll finally be able to fix things like the broken skill mods, as well as pull in obvious, fairly non-controversial things like the Mustafarian Bunker. I know all that is still likely a year or more away, but without JTL it should be closer than ever.

    As a ground game fan first and foremost it's easier for me to brush this off, of course, but I hope JTL fans can understand that this approach makes a lot of sense.
    Last edited by Mythor; 09-02-2019 at 05:29 AM.

  9. #54
    Dedicated Hedge15's Avatar
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    Who knows when we would have found out about this if someone hadn't randomly asked about JTL on the development forum last week.

  10. #55
    Quality Assurance
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    I do not often post on the forums, however I just want to take a quick moment to thank those of you who are being level headed and taking the time to read the posts from the Developers as well as other Staff and recognize that this decision was well thought out with a good bit of wisdom and experience behind it.


    Like Vlada said, think of the great things that could be in the future for the project and projected post 1.0 server, when the times come for it.
    Hakry
    Quality Assurance

    Hakry@SWGEmu.com | Code Commits
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  11. #56
    Good choice that you guys are deciding to release Suncrusher without Jump to Lightspeed. Makes logical sense since it could take 5+ years to finish JTL. I don't currently play SWG. But I look forward to the release of Suncrusher in a year or two hopefully. Thank you for all your dedication and work.

  12. #57
    Junior Member jamieh909's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlada View Post
    Lets recap, and I can't believe i have to type this...
    1. Former SOE, now Daybreak Game Company aren't going to give us anything. Disney and LA though, if we push hard enough might send us a cease and desist, if we're lucky. If not, a lawsuit that keep us in court for the rest of our natural lives, maybe longer.
    2. We are not going to use illegally obtained source code, not now, not ever. We're not even going to discuss it here again. (Don't do it, infractions and bans will follow)
    3. We're not giving up on anything, we're just trying to tell you what the situation is atm. If things miraculously change, we will of course let you know.
    4. Devs are not the bad guys, stop viewing them as such.
    5. This doesn't have to be a bad thing, it's just something that happened beyond our control, what we as a community do with it, is entirely on us.
    6. And maybe instead of pining over what might have been, get excited about what is about to be.
    Hugs and Kisses
    I very much appreciate all the efforts the dev team and everyone involved in the project has put in, I would like to thank you all very much, i feel lucky to be able to play this great game once again all these years later.

    much love and hugs and kisses right back at you
    Roswelle Sterling
    Shotso - Doc/TKM

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miztah View Post
    I'd like to clarify some things mentioned in here. First of all, we've been open to accepting new developers since the project opened, there has never been a point where we didn't accept worthwhile additions to the team. The reality is, our codebase is dauntingly large and complex, and very difficult for anyone new to jump into and make any sort of meaningful development progress at this point. We occasionally get people willing to contribute small changes, but big feature additions are something that would take a very through understanding of the code to even attempt. Most new people aren't willing to put that kind of time into the project, so our team rarely grows.

    Also, this information doesn't mean we're abandoning JTL. For the moment, we're accepting the reality that none of us have as much free time to develop as we did in the past, and it's not worth holding back a major project milestone by tacking on multiple additional years of development while we try and work out a new backend.

    We're considering 1.0 as our "the ground game is done" milestone, which means that large population test servers like Basilisk won't be necessary anymore. So at that point, when we're confident with the ground game's status is complete, we can move on to working on our own live play server environment without the 14.1 constraints. We'll still continue to make fixes to our 14.1 codebase as LK said, but we'll also be open to do our own custom changes as well.

    However, don't think this means 1.0 or SunCrusher are coming soon. We've still got some major feature sets to complete first (new AI, imperial crackdown, gambling, etc), so at the very least 1 or 2 more publishes before we can say we're happy with how complete it is. Don't let it affect your decision to play, because Basilisk will still be up for a long time, and we may consider keeping it running when we spin up our own play server down the road.

    So don't take this news as the team giving up on anything. Many of us want to work on JTL, but the reality is it's going to take a good amount of time. Having 1.0 not include JTL allows us to have a reasonable timeframe to completion, and it allows our player base to finally play the game without the negative affects of a testing environment like exists on Basilisk. At that point, we're able to keep poking at JTL at our own pace without the community having to wait years longer for a play server.
    Spot on. I think Miztah wrapped this up right here.
    Praxi Starwalker
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  14. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by oMek View Post
    JTL is dead RIP, can we at least get instant planet travel that came along with it?
    This would be great , Thanks for all the hard work you guys do already and continue to do.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hedge15 View Post
    Who knows when we would have found out about this if someone hadn't randomly asked about JTL on the development forum last week.
    The random questions come all the time, don't be so negative, what would be our motive to keep these things from you? Like there is some stock we can buy without you knowing that will go down the day you know?

    No, we've been debating on how to talk about the path forward. And to be direct, I was hoping to write some articles about where we are headed and just haven't had the time. So it's my fault more than anyone else's. This question just hit me at the right time, I won't go into the details but I have been deeply reflective on the time I spend on this project, trying to think about where I want to go with my time, and this question just hit me right in the chest.

    Let us not attribute to malice and cruelty what may be referred to less criminal motives.
    I wish more people here would stop trying to read all sorts of BS into our actions, we're all humans, busy and we have a lot going on, and the little bit of time we can donate to the project we don't want to waste on the forums writing for hours a day.

    My one answer has cost me literally 5 hours I could have been doing other things, with my wife, my family, the project. At this rate I can spend every day writing to you all and never get anything done on the project.

    If it were your choice, which would it be?
    LordKator
    Developer

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    SWGEmu is a non-profit, open source community project.
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