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Thread: SWGEmu AGPL Instructions and Requirements

  1. #31
    Junior Member Aso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnswer View Post
    Yes, please bear with us while we are working on the distribution method and finalising the separation of scripts from AGPL. Once both of those are done we will start accepting the requests.
    Thanks for the update. I thought with this thread being posted and what Vlada posted, we were just waiting for you to get back into town. Did not realize things were still not complete. Ill be awaiting the email.

  2. #32
    The Vlada Vlada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aso View Post
    Thanks for the update. I thought with this thread being posted and what Vlada posted, we were just waiting for you to get back into town. Did not realize things were still not complete. Ill be awaiting the email.
    Well, considering that TA wasn't here, I could only guess what was going to happen. It appears i guessed wrong. Sorry about that. To make it up to you I am willing to send you a picture of a very cute baby animal of your choosing.

    The Vlada


    vlada@swgemu.com | www.swgemu.com
    SWGEmu is a non-profit, open source project.
    Install SWGEmu | Report Bugs | How to Report a bug

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by na85 View Post
    Actions speak louder than words. If your intention is for the good of the project, why is the engine source not freely available under a GPL or similar license?

    I can't see any benefit to the project in keeping it closed.
    I cannot agree more and you were in our shoes back in the day, you would probably see the same benefits. We had a fresh engine needed to be tested to the oblivion. We could maximize concurrent users this way to do the job.

    On the other hand it was damned hard to trust anyone after having theft, betrayal, cheating, hacking, **** stirring and all kinds of crazy **** among developer ranks. All we wanted was to get away from drama so we could not afford risking something that wouldn't really help development. People even had a rough time using the engine on the application side so letting them develop it, which is by far more complex, didn't seem a viable option that could benefit the project.

    Later on, had the chance to use the engine in commercial projects. Imagine hackers tearing apart such an immature engine causing the company a great deal of loss, so this completely closed the door for releasing it.

    Whether or not this was the right decision, we did it in belief of doing it for the good of the project.
    Oru
    Founder

    oru@swgemu.com | www.swgemu.com
    SWGEmu is a non-profit, open source community project.
    SWGEmu FAQ | Install SWGEmu | Report Bugs

  4. #34
    It was the right decision Oru, sometimes people forget what they have. You, TA, and the rest of the dev's gave us swg again after a certain company closed it. I can not Thank you enough, TA, and the staff enough for giving us this back. I tried my hand at being a CSR, I would like to do it again but Vlada is a tough one, I am kidding, I learned so much from Vlada from being there and from Bigevil and Elly. Oru, and TA, keep this project going and Thankyou all for what you do!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oru View Post
    I cannot agree more and you were in our shoes back in the day, you would probably see the same benefits. We had a fresh engine needed to be tested to the oblivion. We could maximize concurrent users this way to do the job.

    On the other hand it was damned hard to trust anyone after having theft, betrayal, cheating, hacking, **** stirring and all kinds of crazy **** among developer ranks. All we wanted was to get away from drama so we could not afford risking something that wouldn't really help development. People even had a rough time using the engine on the application side so letting them develop it, which is by far more complex, didn't seem a viable option that could benefit the project.

    Later on, had the chance to use the engine in commercial projects. Imagine hackers tearing apart such an immature engine causing the company a great deal of loss, so this completely closed the door for releasing it.

    Whether or not this was the right decision, we did it in belief of doing it for the good of the project.
    You talked about an engine5 for the emu a few posts back. Out of curiosity have you thought about releasing engine3 to opensource once engine5 is up and out?

  6. #36
    Probably not. Only in rare instances will you see a commercial software package open up it's source (for the older versions) after it's upgraded to a newer version. Actually, I don't recall ever seeing that happen in reality...

    I've seen older versions have their license restrictions removed, and basically become a free to use product, but I've never seen anyone open up their copyrighted source...

    -Duff

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by duffstone View Post
    Probably not. Only in rare instances will you see a commercial software package open up it's source (for the older versions) after it's upgraded to a newer version. Actually, I don't recall ever seeing that happen in reality...

    I've seen older versions have their license restrictions removed, and basically become a free to use product, but I've never seen anyone open up their copyrighted source...

    -Duff
    Doom, Wolfenstein3D, Quake{1,2,3} https://github.com/id-Software
    MS-DOS v1/v2 http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm...y-source-code/
    MS Word 1.1a http://www.computerhistory.org/atchm...a-source-code/
    just to pick a few famous examples ;-)

  8. #38
    so yeah, in 20 years you might get engine3. :-p

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueman277 View Post
    You talked about an engine5 for the emu a few posts back. Out of curiosity have you thought about releasing engine3 to opensource once engine5 is up and out?
    If he is using the so called engine5 instead and no one else is using engine3, he could release it as open source and see if he made the mistake or if he made the correct decision and he could decide where to go with engine5 or any other new engine from there. may be one of those "what's the harm in it"

    Even if it is 20 years, there still may be a bit of fun poking around it in and saying "holy cow, i can't believe swgemu ran on this for so many years!"

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by blueman277 View Post
    Even if it is 20 years, there still may be a bit of fun poking around it in and saying "holy cow, i can't believe swgemu ran on this for so many years!"
    That I cannot disagree with. it would be fun to poke around in it, and Oru / TA might yet surprise me.

    Regardless of the type of software, library, or other... Intellectual property, copyrights, and patents that are licensed under contract, usually but not always, are worded such that all reversions of the IP are covered under the contract. if that makes sense. Basically, if Oru licensed Engine3 for X use in X project, and signed a 15 year deal, maybe containing support and upgrades, then more than likely that same contract would prohibit him from opening up prior versions as part of a non-competition agreement. With all the software I've delt with, this is a very common practice. Otherwise you could license engine3, upgrade them to engine5, then give their competition (and the rest of the world) free access to engine3, which would definitely cause competitive issues, even if engine5 was better... I can't image any company that would spend big bucks for a software package knowing that their investment was wasted when prior versions go public... I've never seen "THAT" happen, and in fact have seen the opposite done precisely for that reason.

    My experience is with more statistical & portfolio management software, forward modeling software, financial reporting software... but either way it's still the same thing. There's no way the folk who make the "What's best" plugin for excel are ever going to open up their sourcecode libraries from 5 years back, even if they've completely changed architecture. why would they give their competition that advantage? IF engine3 was only used for SWGEmu then I'd see no serious competition disadvantage and opening it up would be reasonable, especially if they upgrade to engine5. However, IF engine3 has been contracted and licensed out to 3rd parties that ARE using it for a competitive advantage, and paid well for it, then why would they allow Oru to open up old revisions to the public??? doesn't make sense.

    It's ALL speculation at this point, but this is how I've read and interpreted their use of engine3 since the first time I whined about the 2.5hr limit several years ago. Honestly, I preferred the 5 connection limit with an unlimited up-time, like it was at first (although that might predate engine3, I can't rightly recall any longer). What I need doesn't require anymore than 2 concurrent login's, but unlimited up-time sure takes the guesswork out of logging statistics...

    -Duff

    P.S. I'm just using "what's best" as an example since it's the latest 3rd party plugin I've had to battle with recently... Nice plugin, don't rightly like it much tho. :-)

  11. #41
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    Well it really is speculation because we don't know if he is using it commercially or if he was if he still is. Or even if those companies are using it still, can you imagine getting a windows server license 15 years ago and still be using it (I don't know of many companies who still use Windows servers and if they do they have been migrating to Linux for a while). Really the only thing we know 100% is that he owns and probably sells Engine3 licenses however a quick search of engine3 online only returns unreal engine and unity 3.0 revisions.

  12. #42
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    Nice explanation Oru..

    We have had Scurby drop by our server's vent we play on a few times, as he has been making the rounds.. and he is a big advocate of combining our strengths for a solid common core . etc etc... so in that spirit, if we can re-focus the thread back to it's intent, that would be very constructive....
    Thanks to the DEVs and all the contributors!

  13. #43
    Junior Member Thrax989's Avatar
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    "Greetings,

    Thank you for your interest in SWGEmu. Your application has been received and is under review. Your patience and input is greatly appreciated as we walk through this process. "

    Anyone received the engine yet? This the only mail I have received.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by thrax989 View Post
    "Greetings,

    Thank you for your interest in SWGEmu. Your application has been received and is under review. Your patience and input is greatly appreciated as we walk through this process. "

    Anyone received the engine yet? This the only mail I have received.
    We received the same. Give 'em some time.

  15. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by thrax989 View Post
    "Greetings,

    Thank you for your interest in SWGEmu. Your application has been received and is under review. Your patience and input is greatly appreciated as we walk through this process. "

    Anyone received the engine yet? This the only mail I have received.
    They most likely thought that everyone would be on board with playing on a non hacked engine and would agree with the new license, since they know there is a server that has refused to and they will have to use legal action against them they might have to come up with a way to make sure only people who sign the new license gets their good engine. Or heck they maybe just taking a break after getting the new pub put.

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