Since the elephant in the room is finally out....Originally Posted by Timbab
Why not just deal with that server directly instead of strong arming the rest of the servers and developers who
1) Support the project
2) Don't claim ridiculous things
3) Are willing to work with the SWGEmu team in a fair and balanced manner
Seems like the rest of us are going to suffer because of 1
I don't see how their rules make anyone suffer though, unless a server can only claim to be attractive and unique by having features in the core that aren't implemented into SWGEmu yet anyway, it's all nullified with 1.0.
I mean the whole point is to get 1.0 out there as soon as possible, regardless if Bloodfin ever existed or not. Bloodfin wasn't the first and only to act incredibly entitled.
Last edited by Timbab; 04-27-2015 at 10:11 PM.
I think that's a bit strong given what little we know so far. WORST case, you have to open your Core3 specific source... If you're good enough to code "specialized functionality", specific for your community inside core3, then you're good enough to code an interpreter (API, whatever you want to call it) into Core3 that will read your "custom" code outside of the core3 AGPL license. It's just another manager. even if the rest of the world gets access to your new "Manager", they might see that you're interacting with the Jedi manager, the player manager, the tangible object manager, etc... but they won't be able to see WHAT you're feeding them in the outside process. Plus, it's highly doubtful that SWGEmu's staff will ever publish anything like that to the public GIT since it's so specific.
so really, it's NOT the end of the world. and it finally allows more communities freedom to expand into viable 24/7 online services. I think you'll see a treasure trove of goodness from this. Although, I highly doubt it helps 1.0 come about any quicker.
-Duff
If more people report un-discovered bugs and help contribute reliable patches, it most certainly will.
I still, at the end of the day, fail to see how this change will do anything to expedite 1.0 as nearly all of the servers aside from the official SWGEmu server are managed by amateur and very inexperienced developers (people who likely don't contribute to Core3 development because they don't have the skills to do so properly).
How is gaining access to a non-Basilisk server going to do anything to contribute or expedite Core3 development to 1.0? What information could possible be of any value to the SWGEmu project roadmap?
Again, you said it quite well and it very clearly explains the underlying issue that this change is coming up. I still think there's far better ways to deal with "the problem child".
This is exactly one of the points I was hinting to and this is the part that really did not sit well with me
Which in my previous post and example I had clearly laid out a case where "if" I paid someone to develop a giant pink dinosaur with a laser beam that fired on players and turned them into little fuzzy bunny rabbits, how could that possibly be of ANY value at all to the 1.0 roadmap?
I agree but at the same time if you have a server with, say, 10 people playing vs a server with 2,000 people playing.... which one is most likely to find a bug first? Furthermore, if a bug is found on the server with 10 people, and that server is using the same code that the server with 2,000 people are using, and the same bug is already reported.... what is the point of forcing the server with 10 people to make their entire server environment open source when it's the same exact code that's already being used on the server with 2,000 people? Who is going to be the server code police that's going to root through hundreds of thousands of lines of code and how much time are they going to devote to doing so which could otherwise be focused on the 1.0 roadmap?
In short, I don't feel that mass punishment and micromanagement of all servers is the right way forward just because 1 server is a problem. ("Well, Private Pyle had a jelly donut in his foot locker, everyone get on your face and give me 100 pushups"). Like I suggested previously, I think the SWGEmu staff would find most all servers are more than willing to work and cooperate on a case by case situation, much like a freedom of information act request which is processed from initiator to organization and then transmitted back to the initiator.
Last edited by Lolindir; 04-28-2015 at 05:46 AM. Reason: Double post
It doesn't need to be, but if its a change made to the core then it has to be open source. Its not really our problem you just thrown your money away on something useless, its your money, you decide how you want to waste it. If you don't want to share, don't make changes to the core before 1.0.
I'm not saying you guys need to be concerned with how other people spend their money. It isn't anyone's concern at all, that's obvious and it isn't even about money as that was simply an example. I was actually raising more concern over protection of people's original creations and work than anything and just seeking clarification on the SWGEmu staff's position on the extremely vague information that was been released to date regarding this issue.
I'm sorry if my posts come across as negative or beating the dead horse but this has quickly developed into a very disheartening and disappointing situation to say the least. I was hoping for more support towards the community than this but I suppose I will take the "don't let the door hit you on the way out" vibe as a hint.
../horse/beating/begin.sh
I gave a great example how to get around the AGPL license issue above. it's not hard to write a plugin / API / manager / whatever you want to call it that specifically relates commands / communications / etc to an external to core3 binary or library that can do whatever you want it to do, without being required to share that library. At least how I understand it. I'm sure if it's THAT big of a deal, you'll see some sort of universal (or otherwise easy to use) plug-in / add-in type module written for Core3 that all will be free to use, THANKS to the switch to AGPL.
Realistically speaking, this is the only way to ensure your code stays yours, and secret, even in a GPL environment. It's what the TA and Oru did for Engine3, and it's what I do at work all the time (just not in C, mostly vb.net).
and before the flames start: Easy is a relative term I understand. I couldn't write it in C, but I could in vb.net (or rather using the VS20xx interface to write .net code, it's just super simple and you don't have to be an uber geek to do big things).
killall begin.sh
Like i said, if you make changes to the core then your original content needs to open source, even if its a pink bunny, of you want it protected don't make those changes before 1.0.
Reading up on this discussion, I see it as a largely positive thing. If anything, it opens up the development to anyone interested.
As for licensing, perhaps many of us are getting distracted in technicalities and not thinking about this practically. The way I see it, if you are a dev working on a SWGEMU code that "replicates" vanilla SWG, you should share it with everyone. As a potential server owner, vanilla SWG functionality will not make you stand out anyway, so it is in everyone's best interest to share all of those commits with the whole community. Not only is this more than fair to the SWGEMU team that made it all possible, it is in the server owner's best interest. A healthy community of players with a stable selection of play servers should be what everyone wants (SWGEMU staff / server owners / players alike).
If you are adding code that changes SWGEMU in a way that is not in line with "vanilla" SWG, and a variation of your code is not helpful to those working on "vanilla" SWG, I doubt anyone cares about your code at all. If you are creating a playable tauntaun race, good for you. If you are creating sarlacc baby pets and happen to develop creature handler code in the process, it is fair you share the creature handler code and keep your sarlacc pets private.
That's what my common sense tells me anyway. Some food for thought.
Nice idea, to make them opensource hehe. Keep it up!
My little suggestions
1)If your team has a really great reverse engineers - decompile client. Do it. And make your own ones with customs.
2)Dont care about licenses. As you may understands, for example, good specialists can "unlock" & change Core3 engine.
(+ Themida, VMProtect, x64, nanomites, stack necromancy)...needless to say, if they wanna share them - they share, if nope...so...
Anyways - great gob and keep them up!
Best Regards, HappyDay, R@geZone hack& private servers community.
Any update on this?
I've been asking this for the past 2 weeks, apparently both Scurby and TheAnswer were pretty busy IRL in the past week or so, the whole thing was pretty much on hold for a while. I think they are working on it now though.
Thanks for the fast response. That pesky real life....
So what is the issue of bad blood with Bloodfin? Apparently I am out of the loop....
Also, is there a "idiot level" guide on how to set up a private swgemu server anywhere? Or will there be one in the future?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
