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TAfirehawk
12-06-2011, 05:00 PM
SWGEmu November Financial Summary

December 6, 2011
The SWGEmu Team


November had 43 donations that resulted in a gross amount of $845.00 and a net amount of $805.85 after PayPal fees.


November had the following expenses (two months worth of FDC bills were withdrawn from the account in November but we list only one here because we don't pay twice a month, it was just the way the dates worked out).

FDC for three dedicated servers = $897.00
BurstNet for Windows virtual private server = $7.95
Xzibition for IRC virtual private server = $8.76
TOTAL EXPENSES = $913.71


November had a total shortfall of $107.86 with a final PayPal account balance of $5,867. The cost of the NPO has not been paid yet and that is around $1,500.


~ The SWGEmu Team

Joshino
12-06-2011, 05:22 PM
Nice bit of info there.

JBoogie
12-06-2011, 05:27 PM
Very clean and nicely stated :) - love the use of greens and reds for positives and negatives. (sorry I'm an accountant I notice these things heh.)

Looking forward to helping pay the bills when I graduate next May.

ghostjeep
12-07-2011, 03:58 AM
this post is just to say" WE WANT YOU MONEY NOW!"

TAfirehawk
12-07-2011, 04:07 AM
this post is just to say" WE WANT YOU MONEY NOW!"

Not really...it is just disclosing information. The bank account is doing rather well but we do have some upcoming expenses with the new site/servers and NPO that will begin eating into any cushion we have with money.

Cunoine
12-07-2011, 11:36 PM
i feel oddly compelled to say "lol", this is disturbing for you guys to post on more than one level

Aceblade
12-08-2011, 09:17 AM
I don't find it disturbing. People wanted transparency and here it is.

Oru
12-08-2011, 12:01 PM
There is no new information contained here. The donations could already be seen on the bar and the costs were public. We simply summarized them as we have to report our financial status as an NPO.

kyrios
12-08-2011, 12:12 PM
Dont get me wrong but i still just wonder about your server costs - why are your root servers that expensive?

If you order a dedicated server in the U.K you'll get a 8 GIG Quadcore (TB Raid) with all the nice extras for about 60 pounds, which is like 94 $.
3 Servers come 282.- $$ - why are you paying almost thousand bucks? Odd.

The U.K. server has 3 TB traffic included.

The server company has also server farms in germany, where the traffic is unlimited (!) and they are even cheaper:
90 bucks/server with everything included.


The IRC Server:
Should be a service on the webserver, no need for an extra (virtual) machine.


3 servers 90 = 270,-
1 virtual Windows server (what for?): 10,-

Total: 280,- $



Like said, dont get me wrong - i just sense something:
The project will still take alooong time and almost every developer once being part here has left.
These days only one Dev keeps up the work, TA is bugfixing.

Does not sound promising and i am pretty sure it wont change anytime soon.
In terms of forsight it is advised to cut the costs to ensure the EMU going and not suffering from unpaid server invoices.




Just my 0.02

Darth Nautas
12-08-2011, 12:45 PM
I'm guessing that they look for US-based companies because for them it's easier to access their machines in case something goes wrong.

The "Liberator cloud server testing" is precisely a test to see if (for now) the "production" server can be moved to one of those virtual machines without having unexpected problems, be it with the software or the bandwidth. If things go as planned, it is possible that they do a mass switch to Cloud computing and data warehousing for a considerable reduction in the maintenance costs.

Yet they are not rushing to the lowest cost option in case things go sour.

Revanis
12-08-2011, 12:49 PM
Dont get me wrong but i still just wonder about your server costs - why are your root servers that expensive?

If you order a dedicated server in the U.K you'll get a 8 GIG Quadcore (TB Raid) with all the nice extras for about 60 pounds, which is like 94 $.
3 Servers come 282.- $$ - why are you paying almost thousand bucks? Odd.

I may be wrong here, but I believe this setup is still used (can't remember exactly right now):

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/5993/bwserver2.png

Two octa-core server processors, but we upgraded the line to a 1.0 Gbit connection, and the webserver is running 8GB RAM. The vast majority of our players are US-based so US-based hosting is, I imagine, preferred. Pricing may be different between countries.

Vlada
12-08-2011, 01:15 PM
I would very much like to se the source of that info and compare the prices, i just googled "UK based dedicated servers" and got Host-it as a first hit.

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6520/capturelwq.png

Their best box is 324.95 which is $506.951, and that's for a box that is nowhere near what we need/use. Tin 6 cores instead of twin 8 cores, we have 52GB more RAM, 4x1.5TB blah, blah, blah. And thats just the box, no dedicated line.

Oru
12-08-2011, 02:13 PM
It's not only the box but the network. 3TB was simply not enough for a month and a 100mbit line is inadequate, need 1gigs. FDC offers the best deal on the net so far, the price is ****ty maintenance and service.

We are trying to save costs moving our servers to the cloud, because some of it are fairly idle at times but so far the prices are even higher.

Dranny817
12-08-2011, 06:18 PM
Nice to see the break down in expenses.

Tonberry
12-08-2011, 06:47 PM
The IRC Server:
Should be a service on the webserver, no need for an extra (virtual) machine.

The other stuff might be false info but I've long thought that our current IRC service is a waste of money. It doesn't happen very often but occasionally it goes down and every now and then there is a chain of screw ups. It'd probably be easier to host it ourselves, I mean it uses practically nothing in terms of resources as far as I am aware. It would cut a few dollars and probably be more stable in the long term.

TAfirehawk
12-08-2011, 11:07 PM
I agree with Vlada here....no way in the world you get dedicated hardware at ANY host for those previously mentioned prices by kyrios. Well maybe if you get some sweet, special deal for employees or relatives. I have literally searched dozens and dozens of hosts for dedicated boxes and cloud solutions. Nothing comes close to FDC prices for the bandwidth we require but if somebody produces real numbers, as Vlada did, then we will certainly investigate fully to save money anywhere possible.

On the IRC topic. Yes we can host it ourselves as FDC just opened up that possibility recently. But for the small amount of money it is best to keep it off the servers that reboot far more often than our IRC host. If Chicago or Denver go down, and they often do for various reasons, then we lose IRC. In the grand scheme of things we need to be on multiple boxes instead of putting all our eggs in one basket.

On the Windows VPS. It is used for specialized QA software that we got a FREE license. The QA Team has found great value in this software package and it is far cheaper to host this on a VPS than pay for Windows Server licensing.


Hopefully this helps answer some questions :)

Tonberry
12-08-2011, 11:26 PM
On the IRC topic. Yes we can host it ourselves as FDC just opened up that possibility recently. But for the small amount of money it is best to keep it off the servers that reboot far more often than our IRC host. If Chicago or Denver go down, and they often do for various reasons, then we lose IRC. In the grand scheme of things we need to be on multiple boxes instead of putting all our eggs in one basket.

Suppose you're right. Still the irc service is pretty shoddy for such a simple service :P But true, best spread the eggs around.

Valkyra
12-09-2011, 12:07 AM
It's not only the box but the network. 3TB was simply not enough for a month and a 100mbit line is inadequate, need 1gigs. FDC offers the best deal on the net so far, the price is ****ty maintenance and service.

We are trying to save costs moving our servers to the cloud, because some of it are fairly idle at times but so far the prices are even higher.
Server #4
Dual Opteron 6128 2x8cores
16 cores total - 16x 2Ghz = 32Ghz
64GB RAM
2TB SATA HDD


1Gbps unmetered .....349/month
http://www.ceuservers.net/order/34


Is that adequate? Did some google searching.

Revanis
12-09-2011, 12:59 AM
Is that adequate? Did some google searching.

Requires about another 150-200 Euro per month for extra data space and SSD to match ours, optional RAID controller. That's relatively similar by itself, but then requires a +20% VAT applied to all prices if hosted in the EU. That's just what it looks like from a quick skim.

Wargon
12-09-2011, 04:55 AM
I agree with Vlada here....no way in the world you get dedicated hardware at ANY host for those previously mentioned prices by kyrios. Well maybe if you get some sweet, special deal for employees or relatives. I have literally searched dozens and dozens of hosts for dedicated boxes and cloud solutions. Nothing comes close to FDC prices for the bandwidth we require but if somebody produces real numbers, as Vlada did, then we will certainly investigate fully to save money anywhere possible.

On the IRC topic. Yes we can host it ourselves as FDC just opened up that possibility recently. But for the small amount of money it is best to keep it off the servers that reboot far more often than our IRC host. If Chicago or Denver go down, and they often do for various reasons, then we lose IRC. In the grand scheme of things we need to be on multiple boxes instead of putting all our eggs in one basket.

On the Windows VPS. It is used for specialized QA software that we got a FREE license. The QA Team has found great value in this software package and it is far cheaper to host this on a VPS than pay for Windows Server licensing.


Hopefully this helps answer some questions :)

Didn't you guys try at one time to run you're own IRC bck when NOVA was online and it kept crashing and having problems. Running it like you have it now is alot smarter in the end!

Deenee
12-10-2011, 04:45 AM
Hi all,

( Sorry my english is bad ), Maybe can you see on OVH.com ?

Deenee

TAfirehawk
12-11-2011, 12:09 AM
Hi all,

( Sorry my english is bad ), Maybe can you see on OVH.com ?

Deenee

I see ovh.com but my French is non-existent :eh:

But I did look on the UK site and found the unlimited monthly bandwidth on 1 Gbps connection is 1000 GBP....or $1,567 US/month. Well FDC charges us $600 US for that so maybe not a better option :gun11:

TAfirehawk
12-11-2011, 12:29 AM
Server #4
Dual Opteron 6128 – 2x8cores
16 cores total - 16x 2Ghz = 32Ghz
64GB RAM
2TB SATA HDD


1Gbps unmetered .....€349/month
http://www.ceuservers.net/order/34


Is that adequate? Did some google searching.

The RAID10 setup is a killer when configuring an equivalent to the second Denver box, more than double the price.

Or you do a one-time setup fee that is equal to 4 months fee on the hard drives ($1,500), then you get similar pricing as FDC per month.

madmax2069
12-11-2011, 07:20 PM
Suppose you're right. Still the irc service is pretty shoddy for such a simple service :P But true, best spread the eggs around.

Why not just move to a IRC server like foreverchat or freenode or even efnet ? the most you will ever see is a net split, very rarely do they ever go down to where you can't get on. Whats your IRC hosting prices $5-$15 a month ? Its not a lot compared to your other fees.

shilo
12-12-2011, 09:46 PM
I know nothing about these server systems. However, I remember hearing about a year ago that the Android cloud server had a potential breach. I am just wondering, how secure the cloud is? I mean, if someone breaks security, and can access the cloud can they not potentially erase 7 years of progress??

Again, I have no idea what I am talking about so please go easy on me..

Darth Nautas
12-12-2011, 09:56 PM
If Lib and Lib-T were deleted, no progress would be lost. The source code for the servers is somewhere else.

It's the player data that would be lost.

It's the gaming servers that are or will be in the cloud. No announcement has been made about moving the development machine.

buva
12-12-2011, 11:01 PM
Thank you for what has been accomplished thus far, nice to see you following through with the NPO plans. Each week it looks like more and more is being finished, keep up the great work.

jonna
12-12-2011, 11:09 PM
good stuff. keep up the hard work guys.

Sleseckot
12-14-2011, 04:33 PM
I would very much like to se the source of that info and compare the prices, i just googled "UK based dedicated servers" and got Host-it as a first hit.

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/6520/capturelwq.png

Their best box is 324.95 which is $506.951, and that's for a box that is nowhere near what we need/use. Tin 6 cores instead of twin 8 cores, we have 52GB more RAM, 4x1.5TB blah, blah, blah. And thats just the box, no dedicated line.

Just had to see this thread. I know you guys an who ever else are probably working hard etc. Not being any where into marketing or collecting donations though an for my age I have noticed a decrease in the amount of people playing due to them leaving and playing SWTOR. On the other note lots of people just want the live server already. Yeah I know its the same question, but what it boils down too is an upcoming money Situation "TO AVOID". On a serious Note to take into consideration of having a live server with the new code an no wipes with it just being update from there on out can see a lot of improvements to drive people back here to EMU and collect more donations through out.

My idea to avoiding this possible money situation in the future would be to "Advertise" rather its through blogs, Youtube, and what ever free service is out there to do so. We have to bring word to those leaving Galaxies Tomorrow after its shut down and Draw in players from the SWTOR based community who are probably a 75% population of WoW players and SWG based players. Also bringing the live server out would help people Stay. The reason that is, is for the fact of everyone in SWG lost tons of time and hard work or dedication to their Players and Items. With the live server up it would coat us players an previous EMU players to not having issues with loosing are time we spent into Players/Items/Community Based Strategy! This would also Reassure an Strive long lasting players to stay and continue to Play SWGEMU. Sure people come and go, but the key is to keeping them an as many as possible an of course introducing new players to Star Wars Galaxies (EMU). Its a free based MMO and with a large campaign to some how advertise would draw new adults or youn adults to through small or big donations.

This came off the top of the dome. I'm sure many have probably or already know that info I just posted from common knowledge as I. Plus we have to Compete with SWTOR's Release which will make things more difficult already. So just some thing to take into serious consideration or to avoid future problems. Hope it helps.

Long Live SWG/EMU.

- Thanks

Zonomarr

BloodySheetMetal
12-17-2011, 05:03 PM
So we still have 4,300$ in the account to pay for the server. Awsome!

BloodySheetMetal
12-17-2011, 05:09 PM
Does it matter if the servers are in America if mostly Americans play SWGEMU? Does it prevent us from lagging more if the servers are here rather than England?

DrakSunRunnin
12-18-2011, 09:38 PM
Thanks for the update guys. :]

xbitx
12-21-2011, 03:32 AM
Does it matter if the servers are in America if mostly Americans play SWGEMU? Does it prevent us from lagging more if the servers are here rather than England?

Probably depends on the quality of the service that you go through when buying a Dedicated Server. But my experience has been, that the closer you are to the server, the better quality communciation you receive.

You kind of feel the effects even when looking at the location of the United States itself. I live on the East Coast, and when I play on West Coast servers, my ping is relatively high comparetively to what I would be on an East Coast server. Granted there are exceptions, not to mention there are times when the ping doesn't actually give bad results, but for the most part it holds up.

So I would assume, and I am no expert in any meaning of the term, that the closer the servers are to your most extensive customer base, the better quality connection they will have.

zibanziban
12-21-2011, 09:07 PM
This sounds a little mercenary, but the way I'd do it is get two quotes and set up two separate funds - one for a US based server, and one for a Euro based server.

The funds have a fixed but secret close date. Whichever fund has more money in it by the close date, thats where they buy the server.

After 1.0, I suspect with a Free Software codebase, you'll get Euro and North American servers anyway.

707eric
12-27-2011, 07:15 PM
Probably depends on the quality of the service that you go through when buying a Dedicated Server. But my experience has been, that the closer you are to the server, the better quality communciation you receive.

You kind of feel the effects even when looking at the location of the United States itself. I live on the East Coast, and when I play on West Coast servers, my ping is relatively high comparetively to what I would be on an East Coast server. Granted there are exceptions, not to mention there are times when the ping doesn't actually give bad results, but for the most part it holds up.

So I would assume, and I am no expert in any meaning of the term, that the closer the servers are to your most extensive customer base, the better quality connection they will have.

You are basically correct. Latency comes down to the quality of the line and the amount of hops it takes to get from point A to point B. If the servers are located on or near some of the main Fiber
lines the latency would be much less then a server on a fiber line multiple hops away from a main trunk. Depending on the ISP provider used will be a big determining factor on the quality of the line. Using a fiber line from Level 3 will be much better than using a fiber line from mom and pop.

A connection to a server in Europe could be just as quick as a connection to a server in the US depending on the connection and hops.

In the past I have used Hurricane Electric and Media Temple for hosting and dedicated servers. I put in some calls to them today to see what they can do for us. Wouldn't hold my breathe but ya never know.

I would also say I agree with Zonomarr. Finding some way to make it so players do not lose all progress or maybe compensating for the loss will help keep the existing and new player base. For some grinding out a combat profession is no biggy and lots of people respec quite often. The loss of credits, resources, and hard fought loot is a hard pill to swallow for people.

<Owesko Perflux>

latelylucid
12-31-2011, 09:23 PM
all this debate over servers is irrelevant.. ok so there are 65000 registered users for this forum 4000 of which are active members.. if all these people claim to care so much about this project then if only half of those active users donated 2 dollars just one time, it would be a huge deal.. if those same people donated 2 dollars every month, this project might actually get completed and we will have SWG back.. most of you are paying subscriptions for other games right now anyway, WOW or TOR or whatever else you play, so we should maybe start a fund raising campaign instead of *****ing about how the money is spent on servers. unless none of you can afford 2 dollars, which is not the case. the homeless guy begging down at 7-11 has 2 bucks in his pocket.

latelylucid
12-31-2011, 09:27 PM
oh sorry, the minimum donate is $5. im gonna put a bigger donation than 5 in but who else is with me? its just 5 bucks

Armaggedon
01-02-2012, 07:46 AM
I know you guys an who ever else are probably working hard etc. Not being any where into marketing or collecting donations though an for my age I have noticed a decrease in the amount of people playing due to them leaving and playing SWTOR. On the other note lots of people just want the live server already. Yeah I know its the same question, but what it boils down too is an upcoming money Situation "TO AVOID". On a serious Note to take into consideration of having a live server with the new code an no wipes with it just being update from there on out can see a lot of improvements to drive people back here to EMU and collect more donations through out.

My idea to avoiding this possible money situation in the future would be to "Advertise" rather its through blogs, Youtube, and what ever free service is out there to do so. We have to bring word to those leaving Galaxies Tomorrow after its shut down and Draw in players from the SWTOR based community who are probably a 75% population of WoW players and SWG based players. Also bringing the live server out would help people Stay. The reason that is, is for the fact of everyone in SWG lost tons of time and hard work or dedication to their Players and Items. With the live server up it would coat us players an previous EMU players to not having issues with loosing are time we spent into Players/Items/Community Based Strategy! This would also Reassure an Strive long lasting players to stay and continue to Play SWGEMU. Sure people come and go, but the key is to keeping them an as many as possible an of course introducing new players to Star Wars Galaxies (EMU). Its a free based MMO and with a large campaign to some how advertise would draw new adults or youn adults to through small or big donations.

This came off the top of the dome. I'm sure many have probably or already know that info I just posted from common knowledge as I. Plus we have to Compete with SWTOR's Release which will make things more difficult already. So just some thing to take into serious consideration or to avoid future problems. Hope it helps.

Long Live SWG/EMU.

- Thanks

Zonomarr[/QUOTE]


i think this is a very good point and i know several of my friends who played pre cu who are now playing swtor including me would love to be playing swg-emu but don't want to invest are time into something that's going to be deleted, i knnow there;s a bigger picture, but unfortuinately i think most people feel the same way, if we had a live server where we know that everything that we've created isn't going to be delted we would also be more willing to donate.(i actually have donated a few times)

like he sid something to think about