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Vlada
08-31-2019, 10:37 PM
Just so this doesn't get buried under a mountain of garbage from other sections, it would be such a bother to reply to these questions over and over again. So one more time, for you reading pleasure:


The JTL issue is it was written by a totally different team and the mechanics of the engine and the way game play worked was completely different than the ground game.

Unless someone who is passionate AND very skilled in tick based 3d space games steps up to work on it then we will waiting for JTL until the end of time...

Sorry, that is the brutal truth.


There's been a fair amount of JTL work done, but it's largely stuff like ships and many of the various portions that interact with the client. It's pretty functional as a single player space crafting game with flying and no enemies. The back end that actually handles large scale multiplayer movement/projectiles/etc in a 3d space environment is the mountain of a hurdle that has to be resolved.


We did a lot of investigation, I don't want people think we just threw our hands up, a couple devs (I won't name names) beat their brains out on it for months and made some progress here and there. But as we started to dig in deeper some of these things really smashed our hopes and dreams:
JTL is a space game, the ground game is not really 3d, so we need different spatial indexing tech
In space, projectiles "tick" (they move in a direction with a velocity) and they collide with another object, on the ground you can't dodge a rifle shot, in space you can dodge a missile.
Since the game was written by different devs, some subtle things are different like the coordinate system is not the same as the ground game (i.e. x/z/y etc.)
core3 was not designed for "ticks", we might be able to hack it in but it would be a nightmare
In space nobody can hear you scream!!!!
Now all this said, it CAN be done, its a lot more work than any of the current devs can afford to dedicate.

I personally lack the drive/interest/passion to make the space game work. It was "ok" to me but never inspired me, I'm a MMO guy not a FPS'er or 3d Space kind of player.

I would be happy to see a new "SIG" (Special Interest Group) form around JTL in the swgemu community, if we can find a couple talented and passionate devs who would like to leverage our CI/CD pipelines, test hosting etc then I'd be more than happy help and support.

No matter what happens we are progressing towards 1.0, just at this point we do not see a path that includes full JTL emulation for it.

We will hit the 1.0 milestone (no dates yet) and then launch a new server that will include on-going content expansion and other things the "new" server community will be passionate about.

We have numerous ideas in this direction, and for me personally this is more interesting than waiting 5 more years while we try to reverse engineer more of JTL.



Thanks for the additional info. I'm guessing you didn't expect to get ambushed like you did!


Nobody twisted my arm, I have wanted for some time to discuss this, it just felt right to do it now. The hardest part about great product management is saying "No" and the second hardest part is explaining why. I am a product manager by trade, I deal with this in real life everyday, and here I felt it was time to just open it up and be blunt about the situation.



I think what you suggest makes a lot of sense and I think pretty much everyone here would agree with the path we're on toward 1.0 & Suncrusher sooner rather than later. I doubt there are THAT many players who are idling away on the ground game simply waiting for JTL. We're all here and play regularly because we love SWG. JTL would be a nice addition (I loved it on Live) but it's not the be-all end-all of the game.


I don't totally agree, we know MANY players who wanted JTL which is why this discussion is so difficult. In the end we really want people to be happy, to enjoy the version of the game we enjoyed, but you don't always get what you want, hopefully you get what you need! :-)



Starting a JTL SIG sounds like a great idea and would possibly allow some brainstorming without sidetracking the devs working on the ground game.


For the right team, I'm happy to dedicate my time to devops support, some space on the community site, some test server containers and cpu etc. But to be clear, they need to convince the dev team they might have a reasonable chance of pulling it off. We don't need to get people's hopes up and then crash them on the rocks again.



Since as you mention it might require hacks of core3 would it need to be a completely separate game engine? I'm curious how Lucas Arts/SOE did it back in the day. I'm wondering how a game engine like Unity might work. Of course then there's licensing costs, etc.


Its unclear what the final design might look like, we have considered a second engine with a bridge between them to make it seamless for the player to come in and out of the ground game.

Look on the bright side (or don't, it doesn't really matter at this point), without JTL, 1.0 is much, much, MUCH closer now.


Hugs and kisses,
Vlada

lordkator
08-31-2019, 10:40 PM
To be clear, we are not certain what if anything from JTL will be included in 1.0, we have debated some features being included (travel, space crafting). But this opens up another dialog about "not a pre-CU" experience, plus dealing with 100's of bug reports "Hey my ship doesn't move" will become a big distraction for the team.

We see SWGEmu 1.0 (pre-CU) as a milestone in the code base, where it makes sense we will back-port changes to pre-CU (bug fixes, stability, JTL etc.).

Mainly we want to get to a point where vanilla pre-CU experience is available (short of JTL) and then open up to new ideas for future SWGEmu official server(s).

We won't block others from running from the pre-CU code base, but we also don't want to be constrained by the pre-CU goal going forward.

If over time JTL comes out against the pre-CU milestone (SWGEmu 1.0) then that might become part of future server(s) as an expansion release.

Most importantly don't sit on the sidelines waiting for a wipe, short of a miracle it is a long ways off.

When big changes are on the horizon we will talk about it well in advance and make sure everyone is clear on whats happening when.

We will communicate in-game as well as on the forums, it will be well known to all active players in the community.

FYI I am recruiting for JTL SIG, no promises, but I will take time to see if we can find the right people for the job: Call for Developers: JTL SIG (https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225438)

jackasmacka
08-31-2019, 11:22 PM
Thanks Vlada.

Looks like the team is unified, I always considered JTL to be a different game overall and I am happy to see the scope of the project updated.

oMek
08-31-2019, 11:30 PM
JTL is dead RIP, can we at least get instant planet travel that came along with it?

makednoce
08-31-2019, 11:49 PM
Is planetary flight unavailable as well?

AL3XG
09-01-2019, 04:31 AM
Whats the status on SunCrusher?

jamieh909
09-01-2019, 09:08 AM
Thanks for the update

lordkator
09-01-2019, 11:10 AM
JTL is dead RIP, can we at least get instant planet travel that came along with it?


Is planetary flight unavailable as well?

-- Copying my response to the JTL (https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225079&page=3&p=1602170&viewfull=1#post1602170) thread in the Developer forums --


I am just asking this because I simply do not understand what JTL actually entails and takes to make work here on swgemu. However I believe there are other servers that have JTL up and running. I am just wondering how were they able to get this done with out it previously being done here. Though it might not be a pre-cu server that I was told JTL is working on. I imagine if it wasn't a pre-cu server that the JTL there is very different from what we would need here?

We are aware of some servers that claim to have JTL, but we're not aware of any that have the pre-CU game, fully functioning. That said some have used stolen source code to get the NGE experience going, we refuse to use the stolen code, we prefer to keep with our original direction of developing code from scratch.



Also a few questions I would like to ask if you guys do not mind.

1. Can you access a ship and go into space via the terminals at the spaceports?


Yes, but collision is not working well so you can't fight or fly to places without just running through everything.



2. While in space are you able to leave the cockpit and go into the ships that have a living quarters attached to them?


Spaceships are houses, so navigating the interiors is not a big challenge.



3. While in space do you see other players? Just not enemies?


You can see them on the mini-map, and to some extent outside the windows, but again without collision its not a great experience.



4. Is there any chance of giving ship access simply to avoid the starport run around, like having to go to Corellia instead of going from say Tatootine straight to Yavin IV?


Yes it is possible.



5. If these things are not yet possible, would they be possible with extra dev support ( A new dev willing to donate time to make just these things work)?


Many more things are possible with extra developer support, again this isn't use throwing our hands up, we've spent many months digging in and found the challenges to be more than we can address in a timely manner.



I feel these are questions that many will now wonder about, and if we can get some clarification on if these things would even be possible with out the entirety of JTL being done would be fantastic.

Thanks for all the hard work and time you've all donated to this project to bring back this amazing game for us.


Thanks for the questions and recognizing that we're doing our best to keep the game alive.

HannahBananah
09-01-2019, 01:42 PM
To be clear, we are not certain what if anything from JTL will be included in 1.0, we have debated some features being included (travel, space crafting). But this opens up another dialog about "not a pre-CU" experience, plus dealing with 100's of bug reports "Hey my ship doesn't move" will become a big distraction for the team.

We see SWGEmu 1.0 (pre-CU) as a milestone in the code base, where it makes sense we will back-port changes to pre-CU (bug fixes, stability, JTL etc.).

Mainly we want to get to a point where vanilla pre-CU experience is available (short of JTL) and then open up to new ideas for future SWGEmu official server(s).

We won't block others from running from the pre-CU code base, but we also don't want to be constrained by the pre-CU goal going forward.

If over time JTL comes out against the pre-CU milestone (SWGEmu 1.0) then that might become part of future server(s) as an expansion release.

Most importantly don't sit on the sidelines waiting for a wipe, short of a miracle it is a long ways off.

When big changes are on the horizon we will talk about it well in advance and make sure everyone is clear on whats happening when.

We will communicate in-game as well as on the forums, it will be well known to all active players in the community.


I am about 4 months into my experience in swgemu, should I bother starting the Jedi grind now? Or is it pointless at this point?

Just asking because pouring 6 months into something just to rinse and repeat on a new server sounds daunting!!

The prospect of 1.0 is exciting though! Just feel like I was too late to the party 😔

Lolindir
09-01-2019, 01:53 PM
You will not see SunCrusher this year...

Walking carpet
09-01-2019, 01:57 PM
Ok now we know the staff cannot deal with JTL cause of Core3 mainly not designed to support a 3d FPS collidable environment, lack of experience in that field and the urge to launch Suncrusher I understand but is there an active search going to find developers that can make it happen??
We have lots of power as a community , we have Mobyus1 viewers, we have the interwebs we have Ralph Koster that keeping an eye on SWGEmu development he knows the devs of JTL and im pretty sure he would try at least connecting with the right people or giving you clues as to how to proceed even if hes got hes hand tied contractually , im sure if we advertise clearly whats needed ,how they could get rewarded if theres no salary, the basic request posted for hiring we would find someone.

Other servers have JTL parts , you say they stole it from where ?
cant you guys check there codes?

SWGEmu 1.0 is not 14,1 compliant upon release like advertised it will be seen as a fail by many, I hate to see that happen after all the hard work you put in

Garrion
09-01-2019, 02:14 PM
I know I haven't said anything here for a very long time, but I am still actively following the project and I tell as many people about it as I can. I thought the original idea was to launch 1.0 before ever starting work on JTL. Did people not understand that or? I am hoping it can be included one day, but for now 1.0/ground game needs released first. Perfect it before EVER trying to work on a separate project. (JTL sounds like a separate project to me) Everyone needs to be patient and let the devs do their work. One day soon, we will all enjoy the game we once loved.

Mobyus1
09-01-2019, 02:20 PM
I know I haven't said anything here for a very long time, but I am still actively following the project and I tell as many people about it as I can. I thought the original idea was to launch 1.0 before ever starting work on JTL. Did people not understand that or? I am hoping it can be included one day, but for now 1.0/ground game needs released first. Perfect it before EVER trying to work on a separate project. (JTL sounds like a separate project to me) Everyone needs to be patient and let the devs do their work. One day soon, we will all enjoy the game we once loved.

The initial goal of SWGEmu v1.0 was Live SWG v14.1, which included JTL. I agree though, finishing the ground game and launching 1.0 makes more sense.

Walking carpet
09-01-2019, 02:35 PM
I know I haven't said anything here for a very long time, but I am still actively following the project and I tell as many people about it as I can. I thought the original idea was to launch 1.0 before ever starting work on JTL. Did people not understand that or? I am hoping it can be included one day, but for now 1.0/ground game needs released first. Perfect it before EVER trying to work on a separate project. (JTL sounds like a separate project to me) Everyone needs to be patient and let the devs do their work. One day soon, we will all enjoy the game we once loved.

your wrong , SWGEmu was always advertised including JTL , 14,1 live compliance includes JTL now i dont care if you launch the ground based code and suncrusher cause so many want it but i feel after Suncrusher is launched and stabilized there will be no JTL here since most of the main Staff will be gone , Miztah TA to name a few

Heres proof of JTL working with collisions and functioning enemies
https://youtu.be/ZDQLcP8_ccI?t=1069

xirad
09-01-2019, 03:10 PM
Darn you Walking carpet for attaching that video! I forgot how much I loved JTL and am impressed how well the graphics hold up even to today's games. I was worried that nostalgia wasn't what I remembered it to be!

As Lordkator had mentioned, if there are developers passionate enough and dedicated enough to this endeavor all the more power to them in bringing JTL sooner rather than later! I don't have those kinds of skills (DBA by trade but no C/C++) but I like many others would be willing to QA and maybe help with at least LUA scripting. Let's get that JTL SIG going.


Xir

Vlada
09-01-2019, 03:31 PM
The initial goal of SWGEmu v1.0 was Live SWG v14.1, which included JTL. I agree though, finishing the ground game and launching 1.0 makes more sense.

Actually it wasn't. Our goals changed a few times. When I joined staff 1.0 was going to be just ground game and then once that was released work on JTL would start (like Garrion said), if you check my posts from some 7 or 8 years ago (maybe more), you'll see that. I remember because I was kinda pissed when I saw some devs telling people that JTL was going to be part of 1.0 because it was never announced as a change of our goals and it meant that I was misleading the community for years. Now ironically it seems like I've been doing nothing but that.

shivashandra
09-01-2019, 03:36 PM
Thanks for the update guys, if you think this is the best thing to do, we trust you, you are the one who led this project this far !

Mobyus1
09-01-2019, 03:38 PM
Actually it wasn't. Our goals changed a few times. When I joined staff 1.0 was going to be just ground game and then once that was released work on JTL would start (like Garrion said), if you check my posts from some 7 or 8 years ago (maybe more), you'll see that. I remember because I was kinda pissed when I saw some devs telling people that JTL was going to be part of 1.0 because it was never announced as a change of our goals and it meant that I was misleading the community for years. Now ironically it seems like I've been doing nothing but that.

I guess that's what I get for only being an active member for 6-7 years and not 7-8. /shrug

Miztah
09-01-2019, 03:50 PM
I'd like to clarify some things mentioned in here. First of all, we've been open to accepting new developers since the project opened, there has never been a point where we didn't accept worthwhile additions to the team. The reality is, our codebase is dauntingly large and complex, and very difficult for anyone new to jump into and make any sort of meaningful development progress at this point. We occasionally get people willing to contribute small changes, but big feature additions are something that would take a very through understanding of the code to even attempt. Most new people aren't willing to put that kind of time into the project, so our team rarely grows.

Also, this information doesn't mean we're abandoning JTL. For the moment, we're accepting the reality that none of us have as much free time to develop as we did in the past, and it's not worth holding back a major project milestone by tacking on multiple additional years of development while we try and work out a new backend.

We're considering 1.0 as our "the ground game is done" milestone, which means that large population test servers like Basilisk won't be necessary anymore. So at that point, when we're confident with the ground game's status is complete, we can move on to working on our own live play server environment without the 14.1 constraints. We'll still continue to make fixes to our 14.1 codebase as LK said, but we'll also be open to do our own custom changes as well.

However, don't think this means 1.0 or SunCrusher are coming soon. We've still got some major feature sets to complete first (new AI, imperial crackdown, gambling, etc), so at the very least 1 or 2 more publishes before we can say we're happy with how complete it is. Don't let it affect your decision to play, because Basilisk will still be up for a long time, and we may consider keeping it running when we spin up our own play server down the road.

So don't take this news as the team giving up on anything. Many of us want to work on JTL, but the reality is it's going to take a good amount of time. Having 1.0 not include JTL allows us to have a reasonable timeframe to completion, and it allows our player base to finally play the game without the negative affects of a testing environment like exists on Basilisk. At that point, we're able to keep poking at JTL at our own pace without the community having to wait years longer for a play server.

HannahBananah
09-01-2019, 04:00 PM
I'd like to clarify some things mentioned in here. First of all, we've been open to accepting new developers since the project opened, there has never been a point where we didn't accept worthwhile additions to the team. The reality is, our codebase is dauntingly large and complex, and very difficult for anyone new to jump into and make any sort of meaningful development progress at this point. We occasionally get people willing to contribute small changes, but big feature additions are something that would take a very through understanding of the code to even attempt. Most new people aren't willing to put that kind of time into the project, so our team rarely grows.

Also, this information doesn't mean we're abandoning JTL. For the moment, we're accepting the reality that none of us have as much free time to develop as we did in the past, and it's not worth holding back a major project milestone by tacking on multiple additional years of development while we try and work out a new backend.

We're considering 1.0 as our "the ground game is done" milestone, which means that large population test servers like Basilisk won't be necessary anymore. So at that point, when we're confident with the ground game's status is complete, we can move on to working on our own live play server environment without the 14.1 constraints. We'll still continue to make fixes to our 14.1 codebase as LK said, but we'll also be open to do our own custom changes as well.

However, don't think this means 1.0 or SunCrusher are coming soon. We've still got some major feature sets to complete first (new AI, imperial crackdown, gambling, etc), so at the very least 1 or 2 more publishes before we can say we're happy with how complete it is. Don't let it affect your decision to play, because Basilisk will still be up for a long time, and we may consider keeping it running when we spin up our own play server down the road.

So don't take this news as the team giving up on anything. Many of us want to work on JTL, but the reality is it's going to take a good amount of time. Having 1.0 not include JTL allows us to have a reasonable timeframe to completion, and it allows our player base to finally play the game without the negative affects of a testing environment like exists on Basilisk. At that point, we're able to keep poking at JTL at our own pace without the community having to wait years longer for a play server.

I think I understand now, thank you all for the hard work you do on this project :)
If I had any skills I would help if I could, but the hard work and love for this game you all have has and will continue to pay off!

Mobyus1
09-01-2019, 04:05 PM
I'd like to clarify some things mentioned in here. First of all, we've been open to accepting new developers since the project opened, there has never been a point where we didn't accept worthwhile additions to the team. The reality is, our codebase is dauntingly large and complex, and very difficult for anyone new to jump into and make any sort of meaningful development progress at this point. We occasionally get people willing to contribute small changes, but big feature additions are something that would take a very through understanding of the code to even attempt. Most new people aren't willing to put that kind of time into the project, so our team rarely grows.

Also, this information doesn't mean we're abandoning JTL. For the moment, we're accepting the reality that none of us have as much free time to develop as we did in the past, and it's not worth holding back a major project milestone by tacking on multiple additional years of development while we try and work out a new backend.

We're considering 1.0 as our "the ground game is done" milestone, which means that large population test servers like Basilisk won't be necessary anymore. So at that point, when we're confident with the ground game's status is complete, we can move on to working on our own live play server environment without the 14.1 constraints. We'll still continue to make fixes to our 14.1 codebase as LK said, but we'll also be open to do our own custom changes as well.

However, don't think this means 1.0 or SunCrusher are coming soon. We've still got some major feature sets to complete first (new AI, imperial crackdown, gambling, etc), so at the very least 1 or 2 more publishes before we can say we're happy with how complete it is. Don't let it affect your decision to play, because Basilisk will still be up for a long time, and we may consider keeping it running when we spin up our own play server down the road.

So don't take this news as the team giving up on anything. Many of us want to work on JTL, but the reality is it's going to take a good amount of time. Having 1.0 not include JTL allows us to have a reasonable timeframe to completion, and it allows our player base to finally play the game without the negative affects of a testing environment like exists on Basilisk. At that point, we're able to keep poking at JTL at our own pace without the community having to wait years longer for a play server.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/620/799/57a.jpg

Valkyra
09-01-2019, 04:19 PM
No Pre-CU server has functioning JTL because SWGEmu is trying to do things LEGALLY and rewrite code from scratch instead of stealing it.

At one point I took the SOE code and made several major codebase rewrites over the course of awhile to attempt to get it to zone in with our vanilla CU client. It was a lot of work, but I was able to get very close to achieving zone in the CU, however I have well abandoned said work quite some time back.

Saying that since even if there was a desire to rewrite the NGE code to be compatible with the Pre-CU client, would be even more work for pretty much no payoff compared to the amount of effort involved.

Thrax989
09-01-2019, 04:47 PM
It's a bit hard to contribute to the jtl portion of the project when the design concept / shift of development for it has changed constantly not to mention most of the work is done privately so there is no real open progress being made. An example of jtl progress really not being open to the public would be https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206994&highlight=jump+lightspeed if you check the videos and screen shots yes it looks nice but for a developer not on the team there is not much we can start on or contribute to when it's being worked on mostly privately or on personal development box's, More progress could be made if more transparency / code was available to work on otherwise anyone new would just be starting from scratch while other developers are working on already developed work privately.

as seen below there has been private progress https://youtu.be/6mkFM0CMrQk?t=130

Poobacca
09-01-2019, 05:12 PM
Is there any chance of asking Sony/****** for rights to use the original JTL code? Didn't the base code remain the same throughout Live? (other than stuff being added to it?)
It would sure be quicker than starting from scratch like for the ground game. But didn't you have to start from scratch on the ground since they deleted and changed the base code for CU and NGE?

Lolindir
09-01-2019, 05:23 PM
Slim to non would be my guess. What would their incentive be to give anything to us?

zimbab
09-01-2019, 05:27 PM
Slim to non would be my guess. What would their incentive be to give anything to us?

Happy retarded fan base that is still holding and hoping to get to play 15-16 year old game?

And someone that is holding key to that also played swg and hopefully hates Smedly....

Lolindir
09-01-2019, 05:36 PM
Its all about rights and he don't hold them

Mobyus1
09-01-2019, 06:54 PM
Image made to help the more visually oriented among us:

https://i.imgur.com/vk99n2A.png

lordkator
09-01-2019, 07:16 PM
Ok now we know the staff cannot deal with JTL cause of Core3 mainly not designed to support a 3d FPS collidable environment, lack of experience in that field and the urge to launch...


I would appreciate if people read slowly what I write here, I take time, think about my words, and work to be very specific.

Never once did I mention "lack of experience in that field" being a blocker, we have many senior developers, I personally have written code since 1981. I've written code for missile defense systems, accounting systems all all sorts of stuff, but I am not passionate enough to spend the next 5 years with my wife looking at the back of my head while I code our way out of JTL.

Please be very careful when you insult our development team, we're all volunteers, many of us PAID professionally for our work and come here in our spare time to contribute.



... I understand but is there an active search going to find developers that can make it happen??


That's what we're discussing right now, if your C++ experience is strong enough please apply and let's get cracking!



We have lots of power as a community , we have Mobyus1 viewers, we have the interwebs we have Ralph Koster that keeping an eye on SWGEmu development he knows the devs of JTL and im pretty sure he would try at least connecting with the right people or giving you clues as to how to proceed even if hes got hes hand tied contractually , im sure if we advertise clearly whats needed ,how they could get rewarded if theres no salary, the basic request posted for hiring we would find someone.


Everytime I go to the super market and put food in my shopping cart the little girl at the door makes me pay for it! It's horrific but as long as she keeps doing that most people will need to be paid to work. We've spoken to Raph, and all the people he knows are getting paid for work.

Meanwhile you're asking people who worked on this system, 15 years ago, to remember the code, violate thier contracts and tell us how to write it? If only it were that easy! Have you looked at our code base? It's 519,074 lines of code, on a standard 8.5" x 11" paper that's a 7,864 page book! Imagine if JTL were even just 1/2 as complicated! Before you jump to conclusions it would be great if you sat and thought through the scale of what you're saying. Even if we had $3m of cash it would take a good sized team of devs at least 2 years to re-build JTL from scratch. If we raised that kind of money and started hiring developers and provided them with offices, health care and all the other things needed, well we'd be out of a job on day three because the rights holders to Star Wars would rightfully shut us down.



Other servers have JTL parts , you say they stole it from where ?
cant you guys check there codes?


You know where, don't play coy, and it's illegal code, we won't use it, we have no reason to upset the righful owners of copyrighted materials.



SWGEmu 1.0 is not 14,1 compliant upon release like advertised it will be seen as a fail by many, I hate to see that happen after all the hard work you put in

If the community considers 519,074 lines of code with 13,368 commits across 15 years a total failure then I will be shocked. You can play most of this game now, Basilisk has been on-line nearly longer than the entire game itself! If that's failure, I'd love to see your definition of success.

I get that this upsetting to some of the more passionate members of our community. I prefer transparency, even when it's not convenient. So there you have it. Read slowly. Think before you type. And let's figure out what's next.

Here's a little stat for you, almost 1,000 unique accounts have played Basilisk this month and only 105 people actually donate monthly (85 as subscriptions).

When people flip out about this effort like they own it, I'm shocked, because only 1 in 10 people DONATE any effort towards the game's progress.

But they sure are happy to jump up and down when something doesn't go their way. Before you reply, think on that, I personally have donated 4,850 USD to this project and massive hours. Others have donated 10x as much in raw time. Exactly how are we all failing you?

What are you doing to move the project forward?

hotsplice
09-01-2019, 07:20 PM
What would their incentive be to give anything to us?

Advertising. They can advertise on the (now unskippable) start-up screen. I don't want to get off-topic though. Just want to tell you guys that, although I'm very bummed-out by the news, I support you 100% and will continue to donate money to the cause. I think finishing the ground game, wiping Basilisk and starting fresh with a balanced server (i.e. not as many toons per player) will be fantastic. But having said that: YOU WILL FINISH JTL AND MAKE IT PART OF THE GAME. It ain't SWG, hell, it ain't Star Wars, without space, and JTL was particularly awesome. I'm one of those people who have been hanging on this whole time waiting for JTL because that's the most important part. Not the ground game. So, we're going to figure out getting JTL up and running. We're going to break through all obstacles like Bula Matari. No sleep till lightspeed!

hybridtheory
09-01-2019, 07:21 PM
Good now we can focus more on balancing post 1.0 cause Precu swg's balance is a **** show and a half.

lordkator
09-01-2019, 07:26 PM
It's a bit hard to contribute to the jtl portion of the project when the design concept / shift...

Please you post to a link about the "Hype Train" and a video about testing as if these are proof we're holding back.

/sarcasm on
You're right, secretly we have so much fun playing JTL without you all we've just decided to keep it to ourselves.
/sarcasm off (maybe)

If you have the skills step up, seriously, I have offered full SWGEmu support for a team that can prove to our devs they can pull it off. Imagine that, official support, our servers, my tools and support keeping your systems up and running, some level of "consultation" from the rest of the dev team to help you on your way.

But to be clear, if you can't commit code to Core3 the thing you need to do for JTL will be beyond your talents. I'm sorry its a sad truth. I personally know I could do it, but it would mean my wife watching the back of my head for long periods of time. It turns out I married her because I met her in SWG so you can imagine how exciting it would be for her to watch the back of my head while I ignore her when we could be playing the game we loved and extending it beyond our wildest dreams. (sorry she didn't like JTL either, we met on the ground).

Anyway, I'm sorry this has upset people, to be clear like Miztah said we see ZERO blockers towards this becoming a future expansion. But this team is not dedicated to it, we're tired, we bashed our heads against it and in the end JTL made us tired not inspired.

What would you prefer? An inspired dev team or a tired one?

lordkator
09-01-2019, 07:31 PM
Is there any chance of asking Sony/****** for rights to use the original JTL code? Didn't the base code remain the same throughout Live? (other than stuff being added to it?)
It would sure be quicker than starting from scratch like for the ground game. But didn't you have to start from scratch on the ground since they deleted and changed the base code for CU and NGE?

We asked, they said bring $250m in unmarked bills to the next meeting and we'll think about it.

:p

Seriously think about what you just typed man, this is a multi-billion dollar franchise and we're not worth the dirt on the bottom of the shoe of the guy catering the food for the last movie shoot.

wraken
09-01-2019, 07:44 PM
In all honesty, I believe a server wipe will help this project more than the implimentation of JTL.

lordkator
09-01-2019, 07:50 PM
In all honesty, I believe a server wipe will help this project more than the implimentation of JTL.

From your fingers to the emperor's eyes.

cdent4
09-01-2019, 08:01 PM
We asked, they said bring $250m in unmarked bills to the next meeting and we'll think about it.

:p

Seriously think about what you just typed man, this is a multi-billion dollar franchise and we're not worth the dirt on the bottom of the shoe of the guy catering the food for the last movie shoot.





When this game is a non-profit, for love of the game type thing, it's a legit question. If swgEMU was trying to make a profit off of it, that would be different. They made concessions to allow you to develop the ground game. It only makes sense that maybe those concessions would include JTL. But we all also understand the concept of greed and intellectual property.

makednoce
09-01-2019, 08:05 PM
Can SWGEMU community pay for such coder? How much would that be?

lordkator
09-01-2019, 08:07 PM
Can SWGEMU community pay for such coder? How much would that be?

Again, as soon as we turn "pro" we will be shutdown instantly. You can see this in other mods that have tried to do re-born versions of SW related games.

bogusbogsman
09-01-2019, 08:18 PM
All i got to say it is a really lengthy proces already how far you got with the SWGemu.
And i think its the best work you all did untill now.
All i can think of is that if there is ever someone who can help you out with this, they should keep in mind the initial idea of JTL like how Lucas wanted.
Not what Smedley did with it in the first place.
I recall that the intention was that it would be like the pre MMO type gameplay like x-wing vs tie-fighter, X-wing Alliance and so on of the other games of that era.
I think one of the best examples of an MMO with ground versus flight and space was Battlefront II 2005 edition.
All parts are in par with the ships and fit in the storyline.
If ever you do find that programmer/coder, i hope you consider going towards that angle.
And not the JTL it ended up to be.
( i just had to post this, i think with all things considering this SWGemu needs the best rewards for there hard work and most unusual comments )

lordkator
09-01-2019, 08:23 PM
Advertising.

LOL, you might want to check out my professional background....

Nobody is interested in the small volume of advertising we could generate.

I wish they were because it would solve so many problems!

lordkator
09-01-2019, 08:39 PM
When this game is a non-profit, for love of the game type thing, it's a legit question. If swgEMU was trying to make a profit off of it, that would be different. They made concessions to allow you to develop the ground game. It only makes sense that maybe those concessions would include JTL. But we all also understand the concept of greed and intellectual property.

In all seriousness, think of what you were doing 15 years ago at work. Pause.. Seriously think.. now some random person walks up and asks you to recreate all that.. Yea good luck.

The rightful IP owners of SW need to protect themselves from less than scrupulous people out there, by law if they don't protect one intrusion then others can proceed without resistance. With that in mind we have skirted along the edges for a long time, there is no need to try and get people to remember what they wrote 15 years ago and meanwhile risk being the "Example" needed by case law for the rightful owners of SW IP to prove they're defending their IP.

Tosheden
09-01-2019, 08:51 PM
Honestly, I probably am in the whatever percentage of folks who didn't really get into space at all during the my entire 8 year play time. The ground game just had so much more for me to get into. While I understand that folks may feel burned by the idea of JTL being behind 1.0 (or with it if we're lucky enough to find someone willing to put in the time), I completely understand yalls reasoning for narrowing your focus toward 1.0 and beyond. I think mostly people are burned by not knowing a bit earlier but how would we know if it was possible if you guys never gave it an attempt? Sounds like thats exactly what happened, gave a shot and realized the work load would further put us away from 1.0. And if thats case, yall do yall. We'll be here when 1.0 is ready and I'm sure even more will be here if JTL becomes a reality. Keep up to hard work. And also thank you for not putting the entire project at risk by folding and using leaked code instead of your own like you have been.

jimmy
09-01-2019, 08:52 PM
In all honesty, I believe a server wipe will help this project more than the implimentation of JTL.
i agree all starting again like a brand new game.. bring it on! good work up to this point all devs well done and thanks for bringing this old classic back to life. even without JTL.

cdent4
09-01-2019, 08:54 PM
In all seriousness, think of what you were doing 15 years ago at work. Pause.. Seriously think.. now some random person walks up and asks you to recreate all that.. Yea good luck.

The rightful IP owners of SW need to protect themselves from less than scrupulous people out there, by law if they don't protect one intrusion then others can proceed without resistance. With that in mind we have skirted along the edges for a long time, there is no need to try and get people to remember what they wrote 15 years ago and meanwhile risk being the "Example" needed by case law for the rightful owners of SW IP to prove they're defending their IP.


What was I doing 15 years ago? I was paying Sony $15.99 (or however much it was) a month to play this game, along with the 100s of thousands, if not millions of other people doing the exact same thing. That being said, unless they are developing a replacement to SWG, it seems like they could make some more coinage by reintroducing the game to the masses for a playing fee. I would pay to play it again if it had full JTL included.

Fastburn
09-01-2019, 09:23 PM
What was I doing 15 years ago? I was paying Sony $15.99 (or however much it was) a month to play this game, along with the 100s of thousands, if not millions of other people doing the exact same thing. That being said, unless they are developing a replacement to SWG, it seems like they could make some more coinage by reintroducing the game to the masses for a playing fee. I would pay to play it again if it had full JTL included.

To be clear, ****** did not renew the Lucasarts agreement with SOE and signed a contract with EA for Star Wars games. SOE had no choice but to shut it down.

Vlada
09-01-2019, 09:48 PM
Lets recap, and I can't believe i have to type this...
Former SOE, now Daybreak Game Company aren't going to give us anything. ****** and LA though, if we push hard enough might send us a cease and desist, if we're lucky. If not, a lawsuit that keep us in court for the rest of our natural lives, maybe longer.
We are not going to use illegally obtained source code, not now, not ever. We're not even going to discuss it here again. (Don't do it, infractions and bans will follow)
We're not giving up on anything, we're just trying to tell you what the situation is atm. If things miraculously change, we will of course let you know.
Devs are not the bad guys, stop viewing them as such.
This doesn't have to be a bad thing, it's just something that happened beyond our control, what we as a community do with it, is entirely on us.
And maybe instead of pining over what might have been, get excited about what is about to be.

Hugs and Kisses

Asifab19
09-01-2019, 10:32 PM
I for once have to say I like Vlada's post. The one right above my current post here. The guys who have dedicated so much of their free time to this project are never going to do something that they think will put what they've spent nearly a decade working on in jeopardy.

Now to the rest of the community, JTL was an entirely 2nd game when you look at it from a coding stand point. If you do not posses the skills to be able to help them create it then please just stop complaining that we will not have it any time soon. You are getting to enjoy the game at about 85% completion. I will say JTL was tops 15% of the actual game we all enjoyed so long ago.

I myself am only just getting into coding for the most part and to hear that this game is over 500,000 lines of code is daunting to say the least, not to mention that c++ is a pain in the *** to learn.

Everyone should be happy that once we land at 1.0 we can all start fresh on a new server, hopefully with character limits and other new rules implemented to help get rid of some of the bad things we experience on basilisk.

My true personal feeling is that if you have done nothing to contribute to this project other then play on basilisk then, really you don't have any right to ask or even demand that certain aspects be brought to light prior to 1.0 release. The countless 1,000's of hours that have gone into getting the project this far is amazing. Many of the players on his project won't even volunteer time to test fixes on nova, yet are basically demanding that the devs volunteer even more of their time to get JTL here.

Be happy with what we have and what we are going to have in the future. There is an endless amount of new content the current and future dev team can give us on this project that doesn't involve space and makes the game even better for the community.

Enjoy the current and future game, or donate your time to helping them complete the project.

Thanks

Sergion
09-01-2019, 11:12 PM
As soon as I thought it over, JTL not being in the game doesn't break the experience for me. And being closer to 1.0 is a more logical goal in the end.

Keep up the great work guys and gals!


- Sergion

zimbab
09-01-2019, 11:51 PM
I'm mostly happy with this change tbh... New server and new rules, moving away from that strict 14.1 will do swgemu a lot of good... Hopefully other servers that have been running additional content could pitch in and we can finally move on and get something we all have been waiting and craving for... I'm not gonna lie, I've been playing on another server for last few months... Was there from start with bunch of new content and its been a breath of fresh air so to say... I still jump on bas from time to time, but so much toxicity allowed by some people, unbalanced stuff, abused system is judt major turn off, I have 2 private servers that I host for my self, to test out code, and just mess around so I'm still dedicated, just not so much anymore to play on basilisk due to all I said... Hopefully suncrusher will change that when that time comes :) :) ps! Got nothing bad to say about our devs, just keep on pushing... Many of us still support you and would gladly help in any way we can :) swg forever :)

xirad
09-02-2019, 12:37 AM
Well put Vlada. And come on folks, who in their right mind would see the devs as bad guys???? Seriously! Without the dedication of their skills and countless years spent doing this for free we would have NOTHING but memories. We have a nearly fully playable game sans JTL. I always think it's interesting when Bas is referred to as alpha. I have been playing like I did on Live sans some features for YEARS now. And I think that's where some folks forget that this game is still being actively developed despite it feeling so damn solid and complete!

Yes, I loved JTL back in the day and spent probably 50% of my time in space. But you can see from my profile I've had an account with the EMU since 2008 and have played off/on over the last decade. It's been nothing short of amazing how far along the game has come from those early days and I'm still astounded the dedication the Team (and I mean everyone, from the devs to the QAs to the CSRs to the forum moderators) has had still after all these years.

I as well would rather have 1.0/Suncrusher and a brand new fresh start for everyone sooner rather than later and if it means a delay to JTL, so be it. There are other space games right now to get your Space-On and I believe when JTL comes we'll still be impressed with how well the graphics and gameplay have held up over the years.

So to the entire SWGEMU Team, I say thank you for keeping the dream alive and letting me escape the daily grind of reality to continue my virtual life in the SWG universe, the universe I fell in love with waaaaay back in that summer of 2004!

Xir

P.s. Just have a look what has been implemented!

https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75

Walking carpet
09-02-2019, 01:06 AM
Im sorry If I upset anyone but I just cant believe whats happening and very disappointed,cause maybe some players love the ground game 80% to JTL but my game was space 80% and highly PvP so you can understand my downfall

Like I said I dont mind you releasing the ground game before JTL but
with all that been said i estimate the chances of getting JTL to be 20%
am I right? if not what percentage would you estimate LK ?

Bulba
09-02-2019, 01:21 AM
1) Expressing disappointment is not the same thing as complaining.
2) JTL wasn't 15% of the game for everyone.
3) There are already new servers with imbalance fixes, new content, and all that good stuff.
4) Nobody is ungrateful or unaware of the scale of the task the devs have already accomplished.

We each have different priorities and interests. E.g I only created an account here because I wanted to play JTL again. I have very little interest in the ground game beyond mining resources that I can use for Shipwright. I accept that is a minority position and I have no problem waiting for JTL to come after everything else. That's what we were told from the beginning.

But it is disappointing to learn that the server architecture needs such radical changes and specialized expertise to even get a prototype running. That's not a comment or reflection on the dedication or skill or any aspect of the development team. And it's not an ungrateful demand.

My understanding was that the packet structures had been reverse engineered years ago, that we had basically all of the information required, and it was a matter of manpower to get to the finish line once the ground features had been done. I thought the fundamentals were in place or at least understood well enough to keep chipping away at the task. I thought there was good potential for progress. And that's partly because the public info looked more promising than what we're now learning.

I don't want to be put into the category of an ungrateful complainer by people who can take or leave the JTL experience. Speak for yourselves because you're not speaking for me. Don't try and create this idea that people who are disappointed should put up or shut up, that they don't know what they're talking about, or that they're upset with the development team. I can be disappointed without being any of those other things.

Mythor
09-02-2019, 03:01 AM
Have always thought leaving JTL till last was a sensible course of action, since the ground game has more than enough foibles to keep a team occupied for the next decade. It's a little disappointing to hear it's impractical to implement with the current engine, but also not really a surprise. That there's been as much progress on the ground game is miraculous enough.

Have also always thought it's a missed opportunity for the emulator not to correct some of the obvious flaws in the game as development proceeds, rather than recreating it bugs and all. Getting to Suncrusher/1.0 sooner is a good thing, as we'll finally be able to fix things like the broken skill mods, as well as pull in obvious, fairly non-controversial things like the Mustafarian Bunker. I know all that is still likely a year or more away, but without JTL it should be closer than ever. :)

As a ground game fan first and foremost it's easier for me to brush this off, of course, but I hope JTL fans can understand that this approach makes a lot of sense.

Hedge15
09-02-2019, 03:26 AM
Who knows when we would have found out about this if someone hadn't randomly asked about JTL on the development forum last week.

Hakry
09-02-2019, 05:02 AM
I do not often post on the forums, however I just want to take a quick moment to thank those of you who are being level headed and taking the time to read the posts from the Developers as well as other Staff and recognize that this decision was well thought out with a good bit of wisdom and experience behind it.


Like Vlada said, think of the great things that could be in the future for the project and projected post 1.0 server, when the times come for it.

everetth
09-02-2019, 06:12 AM
Good choice that you guys are deciding to release Suncrusher without Jump to Lightspeed. Makes logical sense since it could take 5+ years to finish JTL. I don't currently play SWG. But I look forward to the release of Suncrusher in a year or two hopefully. Thank you for all your dedication and work.

jamieh909
09-02-2019, 07:37 AM
Lets recap, and I can't believe i have to type this...
Former SOE, now Daybreak Game Company aren't going to give us anything. ****** and LA though, if we push hard enough might send us a cease and desist, if we're lucky. If not, a lawsuit that keep us in court for the rest of our natural lives, maybe longer.
We are not going to use illegally obtained source code, not now, not ever. We're not even going to discuss it here again. (Don't do it, infractions and bans will follow)
We're not giving up on anything, we're just trying to tell you what the situation is atm. If things miraculously change, we will of course let you know.
Devs are not the bad guys, stop viewing them as such.
This doesn't have to be a bad thing, it's just something that happened beyond our control, what we as a community do with it, is entirely on us.
And maybe instead of pining over what might have been, get excited about what is about to be.

Hugs and Kisses

I very much appreciate all the efforts the dev team and everyone involved in the project has put in, I would like to thank you all very much, i feel lucky to be able to play this great game once again all these years later.

much love and hugs and kisses right back at you

Praxi34
09-02-2019, 10:07 AM
I'd like to clarify some things mentioned in here. First of all, we've been open to accepting new developers since the project opened, there has never been a point where we didn't accept worthwhile additions to the team. The reality is, our codebase is dauntingly large and complex, and very difficult for anyone new to jump into and make any sort of meaningful development progress at this point. We occasionally get people willing to contribute small changes, but big feature additions are something that would take a very through understanding of the code to even attempt. Most new people aren't willing to put that kind of time into the project, so our team rarely grows.

Also, this information doesn't mean we're abandoning JTL. For the moment, we're accepting the reality that none of us have as much free time to develop as we did in the past, and it's not worth holding back a major project milestone by tacking on multiple additional years of development while we try and work out a new backend.

We're considering 1.0 as our "the ground game is done" milestone, which means that large population test servers like Basilisk won't be necessary anymore. So at that point, when we're confident with the ground game's status is complete, we can move on to working on our own live play server environment without the 14.1 constraints. We'll still continue to make fixes to our 14.1 codebase as LK said, but we'll also be open to do our own custom changes as well.

However, don't think this means 1.0 or SunCrusher are coming soon. We've still got some major feature sets to complete first (new AI, imperial crackdown, gambling, etc), so at the very least 1 or 2 more publishes before we can say we're happy with how complete it is. Don't let it affect your decision to play, because Basilisk will still be up for a long time, and we may consider keeping it running when we spin up our own play server down the road.

So don't take this news as the team giving up on anything. Many of us want to work on JTL, but the reality is it's going to take a good amount of time. Having 1.0 not include JTL allows us to have a reasonable timeframe to completion, and it allows our player base to finally play the game without the negative affects of a testing environment like exists on Basilisk. At that point, we're able to keep poking at JTL at our own pace without the community having to wait years longer for a play server.

Spot on. I think Miztah wrapped this up right here.

Lokro
09-02-2019, 10:08 AM
JTL is dead RIP, can we at least get instant planet travel that came along with it?

This would be great :) , Thanks for all the hard work you guys do already and continue to do.

lordkator
09-02-2019, 11:31 AM
Who knows when we would have found out about this if someone hadn't randomly asked about JTL on the development forum last week.

The random questions come all the time, don't be so negative, what would be our motive to keep these things from you? Like there is some stock we can buy without you knowing that will go down the day you know?

No, we've been debating on how to talk about the path forward. And to be direct, I was hoping to write some articles about where we are headed and just haven't had the time. So it's my fault more than anyone else's. This question just hit me at the right time, I won't go into the details but I have been deeply reflective on the time I spend on this project, trying to think about where I want to go with my time, and this question just hit me right in the chest.



Let us not attribute to malice and cruelty what may be referred to less criminal motives.


I wish more people here would stop trying to read all sorts of BS into our actions, we're all humans, busy and we have a lot going on, and the little bit of time we can donate to the project we don't want to waste on the forums writing for hours a day.

My one answer has cost me literally 5 hours I could have been doing other things, with my wife, my family, the project. At this rate I can spend every day writing to you all and never get anything done on the project.

If it were your choice, which would it be?

lordkator
09-02-2019, 11:39 AM
I think there is a 100% chance we can have JTL, but the only way it happens is if we get devs who are passionate about it and want to commit their spare time to advancing the code.

Let me share a thought with everyone that I often share with people I'm mentoring. There is one resource every one of us gets every day, and we lose when we go to bed that night: Time. It's the same for everyone, kids to billionaires. If that's true, then, in reality, the most valuable asset you have to bring to the world is Time. How you use that Time is up to you, maybe you play computer games, perhaps you code, maybe you walk your dog, spend it reading a good book or just snuggling with your loved one. Let's get real; this project is a passion project, it's a time suck, for the players it is a massive time sink, and for the developers, it's the same if not worse. We code on the game so much most of us never get to play anymore. And we write the code that is the game, the mechanics of the game become less magical because we know the code. It's hard to stay motivated to play a game where the magic is gone; meanwhile, the SO (wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, dog, cat) stares at the back of your head for countless hours wondering WTF you're doing.

I think it's hard for people to understand, but think of this, why do our devs (including myself) spend so much time here? We don't get paid, in general, we get lambasted on the forums, and people are always convinced we're corrupt and playing on dev island somewhere having fun without you all. All of us have different reasons, but some common themes are we are passionate about this game, we enjoyed it so much we want to share it with others. We also love to learn new things and to push ourselves to do something great lots of people can enjoy. But every one of us has to pay our bills, and we have friends, family, loved ones around us who would like to spend time with us doing things together.

The JTL decision is not about technology, it is literally about Time. Time until we can start innovating and being passionate about our work again. Time until we can create new things the community can play with and enjoy. Time to spend with our loved ones playing the game we want to play because we just committed a new quest or whatever and want to play with it and share it. Or we can spend that Time writing more code in the dark for JTL, with everyone complaining about how the project is stagnant and why don't we have x, y or z implemented and why do we let people camp this mob or that. Remember also this "quest" for JTL for us would mean many moons in a dark room, we can't release it incrementally, it'll be long periods of getting lots of systems working and then we can try releasing some test versions that people can use and test. It would be another year before that might happen at the current commit levels of our dev team and at the expense of getting the ground game done. Hence we decided it was time to move on, to finish the ground game and get to a place where we, the developers, are excited again and use that passion to implement new ideas and have the community enjoy those things.

Passion and Time: The fuel that makes this project move forward!

PS: I spent 1.75 hours today on the forums (I got up at 6am, it's 7:44am), is that really how you want me spending my Time on this project? :p

zimbab
09-02-2019, 12:29 PM
I think there is a 100% chance we can have JTL, but the only way it happens is if we get devs who are passionate about it and want to commit their spare time to advancing the code.

Let me share a thought with everyone that I often share with people I'm mentoring. There is one resource every one of us gets every day, and we lose when we go to bed that night: Time. It's the same for everyone, kids to billionaires. If that's true, then, in reality, the most valuable asset you have to bring to the world is Time. How you use that Time is up to you, maybe you play computer games, perhaps you code, maybe you walk your dog, spend it reading a good book or just snuggling with your loved one. Let's get real; this project is a passion project, it's a time suck, for the players it is a massive time sink, and for the developers, it's the same if not worse. We code on the game so much most of us never get to play anymore. And we write the code that is the game, the mechanics of the game become less magical because we know the code. It's hard to stay motivated to play a game where the magic is gone; meanwhile, the SO (wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, dog, cat) stares at the back of your head for countless hours wondering WTF you're doing.

I think it's hard for people to understand, but think of this, why do our devs (including myself) spend so much time here? We don't get paid, in general, we get lambasted on the forums, and people are always convinced we're corrupt and playing on dev island somewhere having fun without you all. All of us have different reasons, but some common themes are we are passionate about this game, we enjoyed it so much we want to share it with others. We also love to learn new things and to push ourselves to do something great lots of people can enjoy. But every one of us has to pay our bills, and we have friends, family, loved ones around us who would like to spend time with us doing things together.

The JTL decision is not about technology, it is literally about Time. Time until we can start innovating and being passionate about our work again. Time until we can create new things the community can play with and enjoy. Time to spend with our loved ones playing the game we want to play because we just committed a new quest or whatever and want to play with it and share it. Or we can spend that Time writing more code in the dark for JTL, with everyone complaining about how the project is stagnant and why don't we have x, y or z implemented and why do we let people camp this mob or that. Remember also this "quest" for JTL for us would mean many moons in a dark room, we can't release it incrementally, it'll be long periods of getting lots of systems working and then we can try releasing some test versions that people can use and test. It would be another year before that might happen at the current commit levels of our dev team and at the expense of getting the ground game done. Hence we decided it was time to move on, to finish the ground game and get to a place where we, the developers, are excited again and use that passion to implement new ideas and have the community enjoy those things.

Passion and Time: The fuel that makes this project move forward!

PS: I spent 1.75 hours today on the forums (I got up at 6am, it's 7:44am), is that really how you want me spending my Time on this project? :p



Less forum reading/writing bud and lets start to cracking those Bio Engineer fixes ;)

lordkator
09-02-2019, 12:43 PM
Less forum reading/writing bud and lets start to cracking those Bio Engineer fixes ;)

LOL See now you got it! Sadly already burned all my free time, off to the honey do's for the day off...

zimbab
09-02-2019, 12:57 PM
LOL See now you got it! Sadly already burned all my free time, off to the honey do's for the day off...

hehehe aight bud :) have a good one :)

dsrules
09-02-2019, 01:43 PM
Actually JTL is already implemented. Simply open the Game Menu and click Credits.

Then take note of those names and be grateful that JTL could be a possibility at all.

Hedge15
09-02-2019, 03:20 PM
Who knows when we would have found out about this if someone hadn't randomly asked about JTL on the development forum last week.


The random questions come all the time, don't be so negative, what would be our motive to keep these things from you? Like there is some stock we can buy without you knowing that will go down the day you know?
Yes, that's ridiculous, that's why I was wondering. It seems like it's been under wraps for a while.


No, we've been debating on how to talk about the path forward. And to be direct, I was hoping to write some articles about where we are headed and just haven't had the time. So it's my fault more than anyone else's. This question just hit me at the right time, I won't go into the details but I have been deeply reflective on the time I spend on this project, trying to think about where I want to go with my time, and this question just hit me right in the chest.



I wish more people here would stop trying to read all sorts of BS into our actions, we're all humans, busy and we have a lot going on, and the little bit of time we can donate to the project we don't want to waste on the forums writing for hours a day.

My one answer has cost me literally 5 hours I could have been doing other things, with my wife, my family, the project. At this rate I can spend every day writing to you all and never get anything done on the project.

If it were your choice, which would it be?
The one you've made. I just hope it would have been clear to me I should let people know as soon as I'd made it, or even when I started to seriously consider it. We all know now, so that's that.

storm1701
09-02-2019, 04:29 PM
To the Devs,
My dad and I fully support you and your efforts. We are active donors and wish to see this project come to completion.
We have many fond memories of playing together on the original game and are grateful we are able to do so again together.
Honestly, with how much bull you all put up with I'm shocked you don't say to hell with it all. Thanks for hanging in there.

Cheers for SWGEMU 1.0!

sbp
09-02-2019, 05:05 PM
I see this as good news. JTL was nothing special imho - the ground game was and is what makes this game special and differs from the rest out there.

Thanks for the update and keep up the good work!

fightoo
09-02-2019, 06:21 PM
I don't post much here but I read up on developments all the time. I play on the awakening server and I have played here.
Attacking the devs is outrageous and utterly pathetic . What they have achieved here is nothing short of incredible. I thought this was a pipe dream and we would never have what we have right now. I'm disappointed about JTL but that's the way it goes.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for what you have done to this point.

Poobacca
09-02-2019, 11:20 PM
We asked, they said bring $250m in unmarked bills to the next meeting and we'll think about it.

:p

Seriously think about what you just typed man, this is a multi-billion dollar franchise and we're not worth the dirt on the bottom of the shoe of the guy catering the food for the last movie shoot.

Sad...I would only put that value on Smedster. Too bad they can't see the value of people who loved the game so much that they are still here and are trying to recreate it.

Poobacca
09-03-2019, 12:12 AM
Is it possible for JTL to be developed incrementally? I mean like just being able to fly around in x,y,z (which is probably a ***** to code). Then add collisions. Then add missiles and so on. Or does it have to all be done at one time?
Not asking to stall the ground game for JTL. I agree with your decision. Just wondering if it can be done in stages if you get the right team to work on it.

Why has there never been another player centered crafting system sandbox mmo???? :(
Not a KOTOR.

Folky
09-03-2019, 09:04 AM
IDK about everyone else but I'll be honest and say I play on Bas (and have done for years) and I also play on an NGE server with JTL and I'm willing to bet a large amount of our player base are just like myself. In some ways I like the pure aspect of a ground game 1.0, but most importantly I just wanted to say to the Devs / CSR and all who contribute to this project - thank you, you enabled me to play the thing I loved. Thank you, and I'm super stoked about 1.0 even though it means losing everything I've worked for for years :)

dsrules
09-03-2019, 09:49 AM
Is it possible for JTL to be developed incrementally? I mean like just being able to fly around in x,y,z (which is probably a ***** to code). Then add collisions. Then add missiles and so on. Or does it have to all be done at one time?
Not asking to stall the ground game for JTL. I agree with your decision. Just wondering if it can be done in stages if you get the right team to work on it.

Why has there never been another player centered crafting system sandbox mmo???? :(
Not a KOTOR.

AFAIK, the most basic space/ship flying (essentially atmospheric flight) allows you to fly around just as you should with some exceptions. And space terrain objects like asteroids have collision already.

It's just so much more than that. I think implementing JTL before 1.0 or even doing it in increments would inevitably lead to new groundscene bugs, therefor making 1.0 take longer.

chasey lain
09-03-2019, 02:40 PM
Thanks for giving us clarification on the project. Always good to have direction and whats expected.

Excellent job so far guys.

Lorrianna
09-03-2019, 02:41 PM
I do not often post on the forums, however I just want to take a quick moment to thank those of you who are being level headed and taking the time to read the posts from the Developers as well as other Staff and recognize that this decision was well thought out with a good bit of wisdom and experience behind it.


Like Vlada said, think of the great things that could be in the future for the project and projected post 1.0 server, when the times come for it.

My full support to the Dev Team and all the Staff on how this constraint has been evaluated, the decision made and communicated.

Like LordKator and others, I'm also a professional in the technology field on the strategy, portfolio & governance side.

These are the types of difficult decisions that people in technical and leadership roles...especially those who are ultimately accountable for the outcomes... have to make constantly.

What matters is how you handle them.

What Vlada, LordKator, Miztah, and Hakry are pointing out is how they're handling the Cost of Delay delivering 1.0

Cost of Delay is professional way of evaluating and communicating the impact of TIME on the OUTCOMES we hope to achieve by balancing tradeoffs in product.

We use this because it provides the most objective & balanced way of dealing with these tradeoffs in product management.

These volunteers are using professional ways of prioritization and decision making to achieve the outcomes we're all passionate about, because we're fortunate to have some professional in product development & management among them.

I think we can all be clear in our understanding.

The Dev Team are NOT say "no" to JTL
Let's not delay 1.0 because of the unique challenge of JTL resulting from decisions made by SOE/LA
They've invited those with the passion, specific expertise at the right level, and time commitment to learn the Core3 environment and codebase to STEP UP if they want to contribute toward JTL as a feature release following 1.

Jaws
09-03-2019, 08:45 PM
First, I can't say thank you enough for dedicating your time to allow me the ability to play the game. I do truly appreciate it.

Speaking as somebody who can write basic code, and has tried getting into it on his own server -I know I'm definitely not a target for the type of developer you want. However, I imagine even lower level developers could help somehow? Many hands make light work?

When I first started trying to get into it one of the devs said (paraphrasing) "start by moving people around in x/y/z and try spawning things etc... Move from that to try to write a small screenplay". Coming from somebody who wants to help but who can't seem to bridge the distance between spawning stuff and moving things around in x/y/z (easy) to writing a screenplay (zomfg!) is there a recommended pathway or set of resources that could help or is it a waste of time and you'd rather just have mantis reports and nova-tests?

Asifab19
09-04-2019, 12:48 AM
One other thing that I have not seen anyone mention on the thread yet ( perhaps I missed it so someone can correct me if I am wrong ) Anyhow the largest point I'd like to make to the community is this. The dev team over the years has essentially recreated SWG from the ground up.

Now stop and think about what that really means for a minute. SWG took SOE years to develop themselves. They had as many developers as they needed working 8+ hours a day for years on this and they were being paid for it.

The dev team of SWGemu, has built this game from the ground up with out being paid and with out the backing of a multi billion dollar corporation to throw money where ever someone said it was needed. So truly everyone lets be grateful we have as much of swg as we do right now. While yes the project gets donations none of those donations actually make it into anyones pocket who is working on the project itself. All those donations go to pay for the server and other fee's incurred with the project.

So remember this is all done as a donation of time by anyone working on the project.

Lets just hope along the way someone who is capable of doing JTL decides to donate their time to the project and we can eventually have it!

TorgSmith
09-04-2019, 02:02 AM
Thanks for letting us know the status and plans. You guys have been doing good work.

Cherokaa
09-04-2019, 03:59 AM
I'm happy that we have this much of the ground game. Yeah, space was nice and it would be fun to go back to, but what we currently have is better than nothing. I had all but given up on ever playing SWG ever again and this is already more than I could have ever asked for.

ultragigatank
09-04-2019, 01:23 PM
J Allen Brack can't possibly be too happy right now. Should give him a call

lordkator
09-04-2019, 11:12 PM
J Allen Brack can't possibly be too happy right now. Should give him a call

If I had his resources JTL would have been done years ago.

Big-N-Buff
09-05-2019, 08:02 AM
Been mostly silently following this project since it was made public... despite the JTL news, I'm super happy we're almost there. We're in the final stretch boys (and girls)!

TaraDarktide
09-06-2019, 03:13 AM
I know nothing of programming, but thanks you guys for all you've done to make the game I love available to adventure in! It means a great deal to me to be able to "live" in this world (though my characters die frequently). As someone once said, I plan to be here till the lights go out.

Windwalker4u
09-06-2019, 07:55 AM
Since JTL is "different game" why not ask devs from other active SWG servers to give to SWG emu space game. Buying is also option from my POV.
other teams already solved those issues, just ask them.

Vlada
09-06-2019, 09:41 AM
Since JTL is "different game" why not ask devs from other active SWG servers to give to SWG emu space game. Buying is also option from my POV.
other teams already solved those issues, just ask them.

https://i.imgur.com/HleBZLj.jpg

Big-N-Buff
09-06-2019, 11:42 AM
Since JTL is "different game" why not ask devs from other active SWG servers to give to SWG emu space game. Buying is also option from my POV.
other teams already solved those issues, just ask them.

It's been stated about eleventy two times (in this thread alone) that those "devs" from other SWG servers are using illegal/stolen code, so that's not an option. Did you not read any of this thread?

nostyleguy
09-06-2019, 06:55 PM
A lot of this discussion has focused on the non-technical contributing factors (time, passion, etc) and impacts (faster to 1.0, community perception of devs, etc) of this decision. That is great for the community to hear and discuss.

However, I'm curious if there is room, now, to discuss the technical aspects of the problem? I think Thrax989 wasn't wrong when he said it's hard to contribute to JTL.
This announcement came as a bit of a shock to me, even though I read every post in the development forum and frequently read commits in gerrit. I even used to lurk in the opendev IRC channel all day while at work because the development of this project is so fascinating to me. As a full-time C++ developer of 3D simulations (albeit non-networked) for a DOD contractor, JTL is the area of the project I am most interested in, but I feel like it's a mysterious enigma of a problem that nobody wants talk about. In an ideal world, all the work that has been put into it already, even fruitlessly, would be publicly available (through public forks of the repository, more open forums, wiki, etc). This would allow prospective developers a chance to understand the real technical challenges being faced.


This list from the closed thread:


* JTL is a space game, the ground game is not really 3d, so we need different spatial indexing tech
* In space, projectiles "tick" (they move in a direction with a velocity) and they collide with another object, on the ground you can't dodge a rifle shot, in space you can dodge a missile.
* Since the game was written by different devs, some subtle things are different like the coordinate system is not the same as the ground game (i.e. x/z/y etc.)
* core3 was not designed for "ticks", we might be able to hack it in but it would be a nightmare


Makes any real hope of implementing JTL in the current engine seem technically infeasible. However, the devs in this thread have implied JTL is still possible in the current engine, given enough time/interest. What are the dev team's current ideas of how to solve these problems? What has been tried? Is Oru on board to update the engine? Or would the solutions work within the limitations of the engine?

None of what I wrote above is intended to insult or blame the current devs. I just want to offer the perspective of a capable outsider who would *love* to contribute to JTL, but doesn't know how.

Lolindir
09-06-2019, 07:17 PM
A dev will probably comment your thoughts, what I would suggest though, if you are honestly interested in contributing, contact the devs that has posted and start a dialog. We are open for dev recruitment, we always have. Especially for this. Most of our staff are willing to help people who show that they are dedicated and willing to commit.

lordkator
09-06-2019, 10:19 PM
...I just want to offer the perspective of a capable outsider who would *love* to contribute to JTL, but doesn't know how.

Join the team!

See: Development Team is Recruiting (https://www.swgemu.com/forums/content.php?r=170-Development-Team-is-Recruiting)

reoze
09-06-2019, 10:35 PM
Yikes

None of this is as difficult as it sounds. It's much more the time involved than the difficulty of code. If someone wants to take up developing and maintaining (key word) a 3d spatial partitioning system (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octree) the rest of everything mentioned is an easily solvable problem.


Everything to do with ships I implemented in JTL. You can fit components, fly around, shoot weapons, use POB's, spawn star destroyers. Contrary to what LK said, collision does actually work. Both between ships and between projectiles. It's just horribly inefficient and likely to change drastically whenever t
e systems are written to actually MMOify the ****.

With that said, JTL is not in active development. I do not have the time or brainpower left to manage a new partitioning scheme ontop of everything else that would need to be done for JTL. We've gone about as far as we can without writing the supporting architecture.

Dkoraa
09-06-2019, 10:59 PM
I am literally just here to say THANKS! This game, in any form is still a total joy to have and so many have put SO MUCH into it. Every time I sign in I smile so, if it never evolves a single bite more, Id still be thrilled.

lordkator
09-07-2019, 12:09 AM
Yikes

None of this is as difficult as it sounds.

Never said it was difficult.. Said we don't have anyone dedicated to do it.

Praxi34
09-07-2019, 08:32 PM
Keep up the good work team. 99% of the SWG community love you for it. The 1% like to voice an opinion, usually a negative one but it doesn't represent the thousands of people waiting in the wind.

I personally think the decision is spot on.

LordSniper
09-07-2019, 08:34 PM
I joined right before the launch of JTL, it was definitely a fun addition to swg. However id be happy to get back to dant and join a simple grind party again and rank up for pvp.. there was more than just space. Even with jtl on hold, the only nice thing from it which is not to be expected would be the intsatransport or simply owning a spaceship to go from planet to planet otherwise.. no biggie :).

Thank you for the hard work you guys put into the game.

Praxi34
09-07-2019, 08:36 PM
Also look at WoW classic for example. Thousands and thousands have come back for that game and this game was around the same time as SWG - Its main competitor if i remember correctly. Im sat in a 5k queue right now to get onto just one of the servers.

Big-N-Buff
09-07-2019, 09:11 PM
Also look at WoW classic for example. Thousands and thousands have come back for that game and this game was around the same time as SWG - Its main competitor if i remember correctly. Im sat in a 5k queue right now to get onto just one of the servers.

Millions have actually gone back for WoW Classic, but that aside, SWG was never really a "competitor" of WoW. It was definitely a game with a formula that SWG tried to emulate (leading to the CU and NGE), but SWG wasn't even in the ballpark to competing with WoW let alone being its main competitor. I could be wrong, but I think according to the "Death of a Game: SWG" video on YouTube, SWG had about 500k subs for a short time during its peak, but I haven't seen the video for a while if someone else wants to verify.

Farelli
09-08-2019, 01:37 PM
Millions have actually gone back for WoW Classic, but that aside, SWG was never really a "competitor" of WoW. It was definitely a game with a formula that SWG tried to emulate (leading to the CU and NGE), but SWG wasn't even in the ballpark to competing with WoW let alone being its main competitor. I could be wrong, but I think according to the "Death of a Game: SWG" video on YouTube, SWG had about 500k subs for a short time during its peak, but I haven't seen the video for a while if someone else wants to verify.

SWG and WoW were never competitors because they are not an 'apples-for-apples' product comparison.

Trying to pit them as such caused the downfall of SWG. They have two different fanbases, i.e., customer profiles. SOE failed to recognize that fact.

lordkator
09-08-2019, 08:28 PM
SWG and WoW were never competitors because they are not an 'apples-for-apples' product comparison.

Trying to pit them as such caused the downfall of SWG. They have two different fanbases, i.e., customer profiles. SOE failed to recognize that fact.

^^^^----THIS

Literally the problem was executives at SOE/LA thinking "Why can't your game beat WOW"

Farelli
09-09-2019, 04:18 AM
^^^^----THIS

Literally the problem was executives at SOE/LA thinking "Why can't your game beat WOW"

Yep. Classic leadership failure. Rather than trying to figure out how to be a better WoW, they should have figured out what their customers loved about SWG, and then worked tirelessly to make more of the same.

Oh, the lessons we learn, when we work on such time-wasters as video games, eh? :D

mvekob
09-09-2019, 01:27 PM
I know this will hurt some folks who were set on waiting for JTL but honestly from what I have seen in the past ~6 months I don't think this game is active enough to support both the ground and space. With how much of a ghost town the ground is I really don't see how JTL would work here or ever have enough people interested in it to be worth the time to code. I personally think this is good news but I am sorry to hear it for the JTL supporters.

Maxiom
09-11-2019, 01:01 PM
as a flight sim guy that crafted and resourced for shipwright... well thanks for letting me know to look elsewhere instead of waiting another 10 years.
GL SWGemu and good going getting the ground game up and running as well as it is for those that like that. Good Bye

Praxi34
09-11-2019, 03:54 PM
as a flight sim guy that crafted and resourced for shipwright... well thanks for letting me know to look elsewhere instead of waiting another 10 years.
GL SWGemu and good going getting the ground game up and running as well as it is for those that like that. Good Bye

Eve online?

Mobyus1
09-11-2019, 07:25 PM
Eve online?

EVE Online isn't a flight sim. It's a game set in space where you control spaceships, yes... but absolutely nothing like a flight sim.

Better suggestions would be Elite: Dangerous or Star Citizen.

Valkyra
09-11-2019, 08:43 PM
EVE Online isn't a flight sim. It's a game set in space where you control spaceships, yes... but absolutely nothing like a flight sim.

Better suggestions would be Elite: Dangerous or Star Citizen.

Everspace may also be a good suggestion to add.

Loc-nar
09-11-2019, 11:27 PM
Wait, what???!!!

EMU wont have JTL in 1.0??!!!

Where's my refund!!!! You rat bastards!

/wrist

Superser
09-12-2019, 10:01 AM
OK EMU without JTL for me.

One question for 1.0: how many starting characters for 1 account? 1 or 2? Has this been decided yet?

Thank you to the DEVELOPERS . Great job!

Opith

lordkator
09-12-2019, 10:55 AM
OK EMU without JTL for me.

One question for 1.0: how many starting characters for 1 account? 1 or 2? Has this been decided yet?

Thank you to the DEVELOPERS . Great job!

Opith

We will not be discussing the final config of our new server until we are ready to do so. There is no value in slowly confirming or denying individual things all over in random posts. Itís not fair to the other 90% of the population that doesnít read the forums. When weíre ready there will be detailed spec plus processes described for how the server will be ran etc.

Omens
09-12-2019, 11:28 AM
Wish one day we can receive a Sorosuub Yacht to use only with player travel terminals.

No launch in space... just to use on a space travel route map.

xirad
09-12-2019, 05:48 PM
We will not be discussing the final config of our new server until we are ready to do so. There is no value in slowly confirming or denying individual things all over in random posts. Itís not fair to the other 90% of the population that doesnít read the forums. When weíre ready there will be detailed spec plus processes described for how the server will be ran etc.

If only we could get folks to even OCCASIONALLY read the forums!!! I logged in last night in the middle of a semi-frantic discussion on genchat with someone going on about the upcoming wipe to Basilisk and another NEW player saying that they didn't want to bother playing at all if everything would be lost soon.

I tried to console the new player (getting continued argument from the other) that there is no current plan for a wipe and yes technically when 1.0/Suncrusher comes out it's a wipe because we're starting from scratch, but there is no set timeline so it's not going to be anytime soon (1-2 years???). Also mentioned what I'd read with all the JTL hubbrub that it's POSSIBLE Basilisk may live on as is even with Suncrusher. I suggested the BOTH read the forums occasionally and especially the 2 JTL threads (this and the original now closed one).

I said nobody knows and nothing is set in stone so for now JUST HAVE FUN, and with your 10 character slots use this opportunity to explore other factions, professions, etc.

wolverine971
09-12-2019, 07:22 PM
Is planetary flight unavailable as well?

planetary was never even in the game until right before SWG Shut down. think the devs thought "wtf why not"

shilo
09-12-2019, 07:59 PM
Could you guys negotiate something with SOE/******. They give us the JTL engine, but to run it you need to pay a nominal fee to ******/SOE? The ground game will be free, but you need to pay to access space? Consider it a SWGEmu expansion pack

Vlada
09-12-2019, 08:13 PM
Could you guys negotiate something with SOE/******. They give us the JTL engine, but to run it you need to pay a nominal fee to ******/SOE? The ground game will be free, but you need to pay to access space? Consider it a SWGEmu expansion pack

I don't see that happening. Don't get me wrong, I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not.

Mobyus1
09-12-2019, 08:29 PM
We will not be discussing the final config of our new server until we are ready to do so. There is no value in slowly confirming or denying individual things all over in random posts. Itís not fair to the other 90% of the population that doesnít read the forums. When weíre ready there will be detailed spec plus processes described for how the server will be ran etc.

That's what you have me for! For the 2% of the playerbase that follow my channel and not the forums!

Walking carpet
09-13-2019, 12:37 AM
If only we could get folks to even OCCASIONALLY read the forums!!! I logged in last night in the middle of a semi-frantic discussion on genchat with someone going on about the upcoming wipe to Basilisk and another NEW player saying that they didn't want to bother playing at all if everything would be lost soon.

I tried to console the new player (getting continued argument from the other) that there is no current plan for a wipe and yes technically when 1.0/Suncrusher comes out it's a wipe because we're starting from scratch, but there is no set timeline so it's not going to be anytime soon (1-2 years???). Also mentioned what I'd read with all the JTL hubbrub that it's POSSIBLE Basilisk may live on as is even with Suncrusher. I suggested the BOTH read the forums occasionally and especially the 2 JTL threads (this and the original now closed one).

I said nobody knows and nothing is set in stone so for now JUST HAVE FUN, and with your 10 character slots use this opportunity to explore other factions, professions, etc.

only about 15% of swgemu playerbase ever come back here to read forums after installing , they come back if there's an issue or to keep track of Trade forums.
I think there is a clear message on the main page about wipes and what not, Mobyus repeats it in many of his videos but many still think 1.0 is in a year or 2 well its way farther then that 3 or 4 years unless developers recruiting goes great and the team gets bigger getting more work done.

shilo
09-13-2019, 02:48 AM
Could it be possible to reach out to Day Break Games, and ask if anyone would like to assist us in their spare time?

Gorly
09-13-2019, 01:39 PM
You really do not want anyone at daybreak fiddling with anything resembling sane code.
They laid off their most talented ones, when they shut down development of Everquest Next, Landmark and H1Z1 (survival mode).
Daybreak is even a worse sh**show than SOE customer service (I heard rumors they did exist). Stay FAR FAR AWAY from them.

Walking carpet
09-13-2019, 03:13 PM
Daybreak games days are numbered ,the devs that worked on SWG are all tied up contractually and cant work on the swgemu project or they can risk lawsuits or even put the swgemu staff in more danger,

im searching on my end for passionate Star wars modders devs that could help out like those of the Freeworlds TC of Freelancer these guys rock with all star systems in the universe , about 300 flyable highly detailed ships

Freeworlds devs video

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M8V1P22z18)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iErvfmqClb8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M8V1P22z18)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M8V1P22z18)

shilo
09-13-2019, 05:55 PM
Daybreak games days are numbered ,the devs that worked on SWG are all tied up contractually and cant work on the swgemu project or they can risk lawsuits or even put the swgemu staff in more danger,

im searching on my end for passionate Star wars modders devs that could help out like those of the Freeworlds TC of Freelancer these guys rock with all star systems in the universe , about 300 flyable highly detailed ships

Freeworlds devs video

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M8V1P22z18)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iErvfmqClb8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M8V1P22z18)
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M8V1P22z18)

So you are saying that we could possibly have a JTL-like game made? I would be ok with a space game that is similar to JTL. It took the dev's this long to emulate the ground game, I think people would be ok with a non 100% emulated space game.

Fastburn
09-13-2019, 08:26 PM
So you are saying that we could possibly have a JTL-like game made? I would be ok with a space game that is similar to JTL. It took the dev's this long to emulate the ground game, I think people would be ok with a non 100% emulated space game.

You can play Freelancer right now. I've enjoyed some of the mods from it. But it isn't something you can slot in.

Mobyus1
09-13-2019, 09:11 PM
Also, X-Wing Alliance and the rest of the X-Wing/TIE Fighter series are available on GOG.com for pretty cheap. They're the games JTL was based on in the first place.

shilo
09-13-2019, 09:22 PM
You can play Freelancer right now. I've enjoyed some of the mods from it. But it isn't something you can slot in.

Well, I meant a game tied in with SWGEmu, with the crafting and such.

Fastburn
09-13-2019, 09:50 PM
Well, I meant a game tied in with SWGEmu, with the crafting and such.

We have to use the client that SWG uses and the client expects specific functions and responses from the server. Could people tweak, add, and change gameplay once it's done, sure just like ground gameplay.

lordkator
09-13-2019, 10:29 PM
Could you guys negotiate something with (...). They give us the JTL engine, but to run it you need to pay a nominal fee to (...) The ground game will be free, but you need to pay to access space? Consider it a SWGEmu expansion pack

I has been confirmed many times that SOE will not do this and in addition they DO NOT HAVE the original pre-CU code base anywhere. It was lost in the shutdown and will never be recovered.

You can't just glue together two games, the underlying systems are not the same, it's like trying to run a car on diesel that isn't designed for it...

But we are working on a new feature for 1.0, you'll be able to travel to a new planet called Azzeroth.

(sorry couldn't resist)


So you are saying that we could possibly have a JTL-like game made? I would be ok with a space game that is similar to JTL. It took the dev's this long to emulate the ground game, I think people would be ok with a non 100% emulated space game.

For the effort of having a new game made we could have finished JTL 100x over.

It's not that its impossible, its that we don't have enough devs interested in driving it forward.

shivashandra
09-13-2019, 11:36 PM
Yep. Classic leadership failure. Rather than trying to figure out how to be a better WoW, they should have figured out what their customers loved about SWG, and then worked tirelessly to make more of the same.

Oh, the lessons we learn, when we work on such time-wasters as video games, eh? :D

This is funny because SOE/DBG learned nothing, they are doing the same thing with the planetside IP, the game was originally a mmofps sandbox, but they decided for whatever reason to move half the dev to a BR project based on the license...
There is no other game like Planetside 1/2, but they want to make a fortnite/pubg-planetside... It's not yet out but already dead. sad.

polariszene
09-14-2019, 01:38 AM
could you add atmosphere flight ?

Walking carpet
09-14-2019, 02:20 AM
So you are saying that we could possibly have a JTL-like game made? I would be ok with a space game that is similar to JTL. It took the dev's this long to emulate the ground game, I think people would be ok with a non 100% emulated space game.

No no I dint meant to make another game tied to SWG but I used to play Freeworlds a lot and Ill check if i can pull some ropes to see if devs from that project could help SWGEmu , these guys are into SW ships and there features such as hit boxes, weapons ,maneuverability ,speeds ,damage they taken the SW encyclopedia of ships and almost reproduced them all, if im right and they still have the Star wars flame burning after 10 years of Freeworlds coding an opportunity to volunteer work on JTL may be fun for them , that is if Freelancer coding is similar to JTL coding

shilo
09-14-2019, 02:22 AM
No no I dint meant to make another game tied to SWG but I used to play Freeworlds a lot and Ill check if i can pull some ropes to see if devs from that project could help SWGEmu , these guys are into SW ships and there features such as hit boxes, weapons ,maneuverability ,speeds ,damage they taken the SW encyclopedia of ships and almost reproduced them all, if im right and they still have the Star wars flame burning after 10 years of Freeworlds coding an opportunity to volunteer work on JTL may be fun for them , that is if Freelancer coding is similar to JTL coding

Tell them that they are our only hope.

Walking carpet
09-14-2019, 02:27 AM
But we are working on a new feature for 1.0, you'll be able to travel to a new planet called Azzeroth.


I been to that planet and got hyperdrive sick and :puke:on a Troll, no im never going there again :)

Tiermes
09-14-2019, 05:19 AM
I am not sad about JTL, I could play with or without it. Really the only thing I liked about it was the ability to go to Musta/Kash and that was it. If we cannot have JTL perhaps the Devs could come up with a way to get us to those places via shuttle like all the other planets we have to travel to? So for myself, I say move on from JTL, implement the things you are able and don't sweat it, get there when you get there.

divlas
09-15-2019, 02:34 PM
Both Kashyyyk and Mustafar were launched post CU. We have no idea on how the pre-cu hammer would land on these world.

les_punk
09-15-2019, 03:15 PM
The issue of money and IP rights keep getting brought up and I've wondered for a while if it would be possible to use the code to make a non IP attached game using all the same mechanics? Is the SWGEMU code considered an IP independent of SWG? This is something I've also wondered about the necessity of the game discs, would it be possible to make new game assets so the game could be distributed completely? I like the Star Wars universe, but I would be totally okay with a MMO that has the same mechanics if it would be possible to monetize and have a dedicated dev team. Is this possible, or is there some legal issue preventing this?

Walking carpet
09-15-2019, 03:36 PM
The issue of money and IP rights keep getting brought up and I've wondered for a while if it would be possible to use the code to make a non IP attached game using all the same mechanics? Is the SWGEMU code considered an IP independent of SWG? This is something I've also wondered about the necessity of the game discs, would it be possible to make new game assets so the game could be distributed completely? I like the Star Wars universe, but I would be totally okay with a MMO that has the same mechanics if it would be possible to monetize and have a dedicated dev team. Is this possible, or is there some legal issue preventing this?

you cant take someones game and charge for it , its totally against many laws, copyrights ect.
SWGEmu is registered under Hungarian law to be a non lucrative organisation so they can only accept donations

lordkator
09-15-2019, 03:44 PM
The issue of money and IP rights keep getting brought up and I've wondered for a while if it would be possible to use the code to make a non IP attached game using all the same mechanics? Is the SWGEMU code considered an IP independent of SWG? This is something I've also wondered about the necessity of the game discs, would it be possible to make new game assets so the game could be distributed completely? I like the Star Wars universe, but I would be totally okay with a MMO that has the same mechanics if it would be possible to monetize and have a dedicated dev team. Is this possible, or is there some legal issue preventing this?

If what you're saying is why don't we build a new game just sort of like SWG without any of the star wars characters, creative assets, stories or themes!?

That game is being build by another "for profit" team: https://therepopulation.com/ and its a massive effort still in progress.

les_punk
09-15-2019, 04:02 PM
you cant take someones game and charge for it , its totally against many laws, copyrights ect.
SWGEmu is registered under Hungarian law to be a non lucrative organisation so they can only accept donations

I know you can't use the copyrighted material, but I wasn't sure what was or wasn't copyright IE the SWGEMU reverse engineered code. I'm not savvy on the intricacies of how all the different software components go together, or copyright law, so I wasn't sure what would be considered independent of the SWG IP/code.


If what you're saying is why don't we build a new game just sort of like SWG without any of the star wars characters, creative assets, stories or themes!?

That game is being build by another "for profit" team: https://therepopulation.com/ and its a massive effort still in progress.

Hehe, yes unfortunately. I love Star Wars but seeing how hamstrung this project is by copyright laws I wasn't sure if there was another way.

Is The Repopulation built off of any of the SWGEMU code or is it just a spiritual successor using a different engine, ect?

lordkator
09-15-2019, 04:10 PM
...
Hehe, yes unfortunately. I love Star Wars but seeing how hamstrung this project is by copyright laws I wasn't sure if there was another way.

Is The Repopulation built off of any of the SWGEMU code or is it just a spiritual successor using a different engine, ect?

Not using anything from SWGEmu, they're building a "for profit" game from scratch and it's been a very long haul for a commercial project, my first contact with them was April of 2013.

FYI I am recruiting for JTL SIG, no promises, but I will take time to see if we can find the right people for the job: Call for Developers: JTL SIG (https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225438)

Maxiom
09-16-2019, 12:54 AM
EVE Online isn't a flight sim. It's a game set in space where you control spaceships, yes... but absolutely nothing like a flight sim.
Better suggestions would be Elite: Dangerous or Star Citizen.

Thanks Mobyus1 and Praxi34.... I am trying to get ED or SC loaded for years but have not had the drive/time to do so as it is not StarWars lol
I run Linux only and moving from wine32 to wine64 has caused some problems for all my gaming anyway.

ED or SC would be cool but to get my fix I play https://www.vendetta-online.com/ from time to time,
infact being a FlightSim only indie game (that supports Windows/Mac/Linux/Android...) it would be a fit to skin for SWG but they have a subcription base income,
might be an avenue to explore a bit SWGemu-VO add-on that is not JTL but skinned with SWG allowing SWGemu to bring to the game
SW fan base, VO flight engine, SWGemu space ports as doors to VO, allowing a possible share to subscription LOL.

BTW Thanks SWGemu Devs so much for your work, and I understand the constraints and complexity of doing JTL at this time,
specially with all the ground gamers support to not bother wasting time in something they are not interested in.
Consolidation of base can be a uncomfortable fact of life. lol

Profit
09-16-2019, 02:09 PM
ED or SC would be cool but to get my fix I play https://www.vendetta-online.com/ from time to time,



I tried that game a couple years ago but couldn't get a joystick to work with it, hate flying with keyboard. Little keys + big fingers = dead. Also, I saw maybe 3 people the two weeks I played the thing.
Still.... it was better than nothing, maybe I'll load it up again.

Walking carpet
09-16-2019, 02:09 PM
FYI I am recruiting for JTL SIG, no promises, but I will take time to see if we can find the right people for the job: Call for Developers: JTL SIG (https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225438)

Sweet I will send anyone i find to this thread.
LK I thank you for your devotion to the JTL community

Woha
09-17-2019, 10:35 AM
I respect you decission and guess posted on page 4 I vote for motivated Devs no tired ones!
This game is fantastic and Devs invested a lot of strength and love during all the time I know it (2011-2018).
Even if I do a SWG break I am thankfull for the work you do and hope you don't lose the Motivation, THX

physion
09-17-2019, 11:54 AM
Pretty sure you are like me - when you first played this game, there were no kids! Anyway, Iíve been and on again, off again player - and have come back after a spell and I gotta say - what an incredible, INCREDIBLE job you and the team have done. My respect -

Jodas (Corbantis)

Qui-larek
09-17-2019, 09:25 PM
I am personally super excited to see the project get to this point and im more delighted to read posts suggesting that 1.0 is in the future and that there are people willing to be a part of running said server. Im sure I recall a time where there was no one willing to run Suncrusher even if we reached the point where it could happen. Im slightly less motivated to relist some items on my vendor tonight but its time to start planing, soon there will be new cities to run and guess its time to save a copy of my macros once more :)

Oagawio
09-19-2019, 12:00 PM
Unlucky...been following SWGEmu for years with the hope of playing JTL.

Happy that you guys are looking for more hands to help rather than giving up on it, but certainly bummed about the news.

I basically lived in space, so although I loved the ground game it would be really hard for me to play SWG without that option.
I was in space so much that even though I wanted to be a shipwright, I never even really got anywhere with crafting lmao.

Honestly I wish I had any experience coding, I would absolutely love to help out, but alas.
If by some chance I run into someone who could help, I'll gladly point them this way.
I'll always keep an eye out here for future updates.
Thanks for all the hard work you guys have put in over the years, it's been crazy to watch the status list slowly go from red to green. Every time a feature got relisted in green it made me happy, and I haven't even played.

In the meantime, years more though it may be for JTL, I hope SC/Squadron 42 makes good progress.

herodias
09-20-2019, 12:18 PM
Personally, I think this is great news! Lets be honest, ONLY the team coding knows whats best to move this project forward.
People shouldn't really see this as a negative anyway think about it, all focus will be on the ground game, a lot more tweaks and fixes that potentially could of been missed because of rushing onto JTL.
The best thing is we all have the ground game to enjoy and you never know what happens overtime, more coders could join the team or current coders could have less time but regardless we'll have a completed ground game that we can all enjoy.

christophermcne
09-22-2019, 04:06 PM
I was really looking forward to playing JTL in a pre-cu environment that was reliable. It looks like the devs are suggesting that JTL will be a bigger challenge than even the core game was. I guess I need to just move on and find an alternative. Dont think I want to wait in anticipation for another decade...

lordkator
09-22-2019, 07:35 PM
I was really looking forward to playing JTL in a pre-cu environment that was reliable. It looks like the devs are suggesting that JTL will be a bigger challenge than even the core game was. I guess I need to just move on and find an alternative. Dont think I want to wait in anticipation for another decade...

We're still recruiting for the JTL SIG and we may yet get it moving, I doubt it's a decade if we can get more people to join the dev team and focus on JTL.

Lord Kohan
09-23-2019, 09:03 AM
/crossfingers

@lordkator a big thanks to you and the other Devs for ALL the afford that is put into the project and for trying to get JTL started!!

You guys rock.

futuramaman
09-24-2019, 04:42 AM
EVE Online isn't a flight sim. It's a game set in space where you control spaceships, yes... but absolutely nothing like a flight sim.

Better suggestions would be Elite: Dangerous or Star Citizen.

One could also play Discovery mod freelancer, also there is freeworlds Freelancer which is Star Wars, but nobody plays freeworlds.

kenobuOwan
09-24-2019, 09:41 PM
freeworlds Freelancer

For the devs, what about moding our own version? Would you be able to bridge the two?

Fastburn
09-24-2019, 10:01 PM
For the devs, what about moding our own version? Would you be able to bridge the two?

This was asked and answered a few pages ago, but no it is not practical or realistic to fit another game into the hole that JTL has. It will be far easier getting JTL online than making something new or attaching something else.

kenobuOwan
09-24-2019, 10:32 PM
This was asked and answered a few pages ago, but no it is not practical or realistic to fit another game into the hole that JTL has. It will be far easier getting JTL online than making something new or attaching something else.

What about this engine... https://www.moddb.com/engines/fs2-open-engine

Fastburn
09-24-2019, 11:43 PM
What about this engine... https://www.moddb.com/engines/fs2-open-engine


I has been confirmed many times that SOE will not do this and in addition they DO NOT HAVE the original pre-CU code base anywhere. It was lost in the shutdown and will never be recovered.

You can't just glue together two games, the underlying systems are not the same, it's like trying to run a car on diesel that isn't designed for it...

But we are working on a new feature for 1.0, you'll be able to travel to a new planet called Azzeroth.

(sorry couldn't resist)



For the effort of having a new game made we could have finished JTL 100x over.

It's not that its impossible, its that we don't have enough devs interested in driving it forward.

That's the answer to your question.

kenobuOwan
09-25-2019, 02:53 AM
That one is an engine... it's not an existing game "being glued in".

From his op...




Its unclear what the final design might look like[, we have considered a second engine with a bridge between them to make it seamless for the player to come in and out of the ground game

Basing my suggestions off ^^^ this post in the OP. They've considered another engine before, so it's not in the realm of unbelievable, that they might consider another option if it is workable.

So if there's another viable option... why not look into it considering how the current user base has nosedived since the jtl announcement.

The only other option is for them to hack in the code to the current engine that wasn't designed for 3d space functions like ticks and uses a different spatial indexing tech.

In his own words... "it would be a nightmare".






For the effort of having a new game made we could have finished JTL 100x over.

It's not that its impossible, its that we don't have enough devs interested in driving it forward.
That's the whole point of using an engine... so that it doesn't have to be designed from the ground up and building your own engine. It already has a spatial indexing tech for space travel and it has a combat system built for things like projectile "ticks", etc.

You know... the stuff that he said would be a nightmare to hack in and that they don't have the devs for.

You might even find people competent in dev with the engine who might be willing to donate their time to a STAR WARS project.

Or you could use the open source branch of the engine that was developed FOR Star Wars. You might be able to get some devs from that project to help out with the engine here...

https://www.moddb.com/mods/fwtow





So in case a dev, and not a qa, is reading... maybe this is a viable solution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FreeSpace_2_Source_Code_Project

https://github.com/scp-fs2open/fs2open.github.com

https://www.moddb.com/engines/fs2-open-engine

Lolindir
09-25-2019, 07:25 AM
So in case a dev, and not a qa, is reading... maybe this is a viable solution.


Bashing our QA who try to give you an honest answer, will not help your case. Several of our QA also do code, so they are not all lost when they talk about it, as it seems you believe with this comment.

At this point, we will not go this route. We are working on putting together a JTL team and some have reached out, but nothing is finalized and if it does, it will be a lot of work. You will just have to trust that our devs know the best way forward. Everyone of our active developers are actually senior devs professionally, so I have faith in that the decisions they make, are for the best for our project.

kenobuOwan
09-25-2019, 09:05 AM
Because a potential viable option shouldn't be fwd'd and investigated.

Instead of being courteous and saying thx for the input we'll fwd it on, instead it's "It's been asked and answered, you don't know what you're talking about" snark.

It's clear that it's falling on deaf ears.

Lolindir
09-25-2019, 09:34 AM
I believe they already know about the information you have provided, that is where my comment about trust in our development team comes in.

If a job in a supermarket is what you wish to pursue, I say go for it!

Actually, there are a lot of members in this community that have software development experience, some of them have contributed code as well (and several have started their own servers). If you wish to help the project, we are open to people who wish to contribute to the project. Our recruitment is always open in that department. Feel free to contribute. Mantis is full of work that needs to be done and there are still things that need to be implemented and there is ofc the future as well, be part of the team that shape the new server.
Most of our devs and QA are willing to help and teach people who wish to contribute. Just reach out to some of them and start talking. Our Discord channel is a good place to get a hold of us.

You can also ofc read the recruitment post
https://www.swgemu.com/forums/content.php?r=170-Development-Team-is-Recruiting

makednoce
09-25-2019, 11:29 AM
I say buy the damn engine, let someone else do the job for us.
We will cut our expenses until they finish the job.

Vlada
09-25-2019, 12:14 PM
I say buy the damn engine, let someone else do the job for us.
We will cut our expenses until they finish the job.

You're a mate, and I like you. I've known you for eons. But please, just let the grownups talk.

Lolindir
09-25-2019, 02:07 PM
But with all things said kenobuOwan, Mobyus1 is hosting an interview with Lordkator and ask for questions sent in to him. Follow this link to submit your question
https://www.swgemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225598

leato
09-25-2019, 02:11 PM
Sorry for the lurker post but I'm honestly surprised by the number of people whom actually do not know whats going on. Plenty is posted and pinned as to the reasons for the progression of development. Funny stuff happens to intellectual property when departments and companies switch hands, usually things are lost forever in the quagmire of legalese. Stuck in a limbo of proprietary ownership to ghosts.
Anyways, I'm glad your starting up a JTL team even though the original plan was not to start on JTL until the ground game was complete. I think its a fair compromise considering the interest of the community in JTL along side the ground game.
Keep up the good work as always devs!

~ LeAto Zill

Valkyra
09-25-2019, 04:32 PM
Because a potential viable option shouldn't be fwd'd and investigated.

Instead of being courteous and saying thx for the input we'll fwd it on, instead it's "It's been asked and answered, you don't know what you're talking about" snark.

It's clear that it's falling on deaf ears.

Maybe because you don't know what you are talking about?

Hedge15
09-25-2019, 06:20 PM
But please, just let the grownups talk.
Greta Thunberg would like to have a word with you.

Vlada
09-25-2019, 06:28 PM
Greta Thunberg would like to have a word with you.

Who?

Hedge15
09-25-2019, 06:31 PM
Who?
Someone who lives outside the SWGEmu forums.

leato
09-25-2019, 06:50 PM
Greta Thunberg would like to have a word with you.

Ouch, I'm way up here in the stratosphere and I can still feel the heat from that burn...

Vlada
09-25-2019, 10:11 PM
Someone who lives outside the SWGEmu forums.

Ah, that would explain it.

wsimm101
09-26-2019, 04:37 PM
Is there an update on how close we are to 1.0? I started a guild and town about two months ago and lots of people have left and its now empty because of talk of the
server being shut down. Do we know how close we are to the new server so I can update my guild?

makednoce
09-26-2019, 04:46 PM
Is there an update on how close we are to 1.0? I started a guild and town about two months ago and lots of people have left and its now empty because of talk of the
server being shut down. Do we know how close we are to the new server so I can update my guild?

One maybe two years.
I have listed myself for mission to mars in 2028.

Bulba
09-26-2019, 05:58 PM
There's no need to be so negative to people like kenobuOwan who are at least trying to brainstorm some options to explore. Of course there is no drop-in solution but some of the heavy lifting has been open sourced and could be adapted.

airfluff
09-29-2019, 09:18 PM
I'm pretty sure it will come faster than we think! Anyway what does it change? :)

Brewberry
09-30-2019, 03:44 AM
Greetings project team!

When I started playing SWG at its European release it was under the impression JTL would arrive *cough* shortly and so I wanted to get started and prepare
for it by moving up in that galaxy far far away. The ground game was a path towards a goal so to speak. Sometimes in life though, I have been blessed by realizing
that the path is far more important and enjoyable than the goal. SWG pre-CU changed how I play games and what I hope to see in games. And it wasn't JTL,
ground combat or even that it was Star Wars. It was the many activities and game features to get involved in besides combat paired with the community. If
not for crafting, running a shop, getting to know players etc I would have left the game within 3 months. Instead I am reasonably sure, despite SWG's flaws and
shortcomings, I will never love playing a game more. Plus, it was Star Wars.

What you all have achieved here is nothing short of unreal. First hearing about this project I thought, probably doable but next to impossible. Not because of
technical or legal issues which I would leave to professionals more suited to evaluate anyway, but because I did have some grasp of the scope of the project and its main
challenges. In short, the human factors. I can only imagine the actual time and effort that has been sunk into bringing SWGEmu to this point. In my view this project has
been a thundering success for a long time. Regardless what initial goals are reached. Regardless how many people end up playing on Suncrusher. Its a success because
a story like SWGEmu is highly inspirational. You all brought the project this far, for this long, for nothing but love for the game, its community and Star Wars. Despite likely
at least suspecting it might be costly in terms of your own interest in playing your creation. Rewards are awarded for that kind of dedication.

It has been speculated Star Wars fans might be one of the toughest crowds around to create entertainment for. I can understand that. When emotions run high,
so does the chance some struggle to remain respectful. In my book its basically praise although that can be hard to see. If you don't care you don't comment.

Moving forward releasing 1.0 with JTL as a possible future addition is clearly the right choice. And I am sure one not taken lightly knowing full well some would be rather
disappointed. For my part SWG might be just a fond memory, but thanks to you I still keep the original game around. Perhaps when Suncrusher is up I will feel like playing
SWG again. I would be surprised if there aren't quite a few people like me lurking in the shadows contemplating a return to a galaxy far far away.

Once the dust settles and Suncrusher is operational I hope you all get to enjoy your creation. Nobody deserves it more.


Brewberry

Telex
09-30-2019, 06:14 PM
First, I want to thank the SWGEmu team for keeping the game alive in some capacity. It's been a long sixteen plus years for a ton of people.

While the idea of being able to do JTL is always welcomed, I am extremely satisfied that we have the ground game server opportunity (Suncrusher) to do first.
Without the worry of wipes, while the possibility of space flight is still a remote option, way down the road, seems like the most logical choice.

LordKator - thanks for doing the YouTube cast with Mobyus1... it was cool to learn that you were the leader of FEDS on Flurry, as I was in DC (Imperial) way back in the day.
I was a corespondent/senator as Per Synapse and tried to survive through all the changes of the CU/NGE,
which I was not at all happy about. I did actually make it through though, the good and the bad, up until the official end.

This is an amazingly awesome option to surprisingly still be able to play it, and in a state that I purchased it in late June of 2003 (with applicable "updates"). Looking forward to the wipe.

lordkator
09-30-2019, 08:09 PM
First, I want to thank the SWGEmu team ..

Me too, what an amazing project, I'm humbled by those who have came before me!




LordKator - thanks for doing the YouTube cast with Mobyus1... it was cool to learn that you were the leader of FEDS on Flurry, as I was in DC (Imperial) way back in the day.

Oh man a flood of memories came back when I read this.. :-)



I was a corespondent/senator as Per Synapse and tried to survive through all the changes of the CU/NGE,
which I was not at all happy about. I did actually make it through though, the good and the bad, up until the official end.

This is an amazingly awesome option to surprisingly still be able to play it, and in a state that I purchased it in late June of 2003 (with applicable "updates"). Looking forward to the wipe.

It is pretty crazy, and I hope we can keep it going!

Big-N-Buff
09-30-2019, 08:56 PM
First, I want to thank the SWGEmu team for keeping the game alive in some capacity. It's been a long sixteen plus years for a ton of people.

While the idea of being able to do JTL is always welcomed, I am extremely satisfied that we have the ground game server opportunity (Suncrusher) to do first.
Without the worry of wipes, while the possibility of space flight is still a remote option, way down the road, seems like the most logical choice.

LordKator - thanks for doing the YouTube cast with Mobyus1... it was cool to learn that you were the leader of FEDS on Flurry, as I was in DC (Imperial) way back in the day.
I was a corespondent/senator as Per Synapse and tried to survive through all the changes of the CU/NGE,
which I was not at all happy about. I did actually make it through though, the good and the bad, up until the official end.

This is an amazingly awesome option to surprisingly still be able to play it, and in a state that I purchased it in late June of 2003 (with applicable "updates"). Looking forward to the wipe.

What the :O I need to listen to this interview! I didn't realize LordKator was leader of FEDS. I spent all my years on Flurry too. I was in TITAN and then DFR.

percavil
10-06-2019, 05:39 PM
I personally know I could do it, but it would mean my wife watching the back of my head for long periods of time. It turns out I married her because I met her in SWG so you can imagine how exciting it would be for her to watch the back of my head while I ignore her when we could be playing the game we loved and extending it beyond our wildest dreams. (sorry she didn't like JTL either, we met on the ground).


Too bad they didn't meet in space, things would be alot different.
Ok guys you heard it, just need to convince his wife that he's fulfilling his purpose in life of making swgemu 14.1 compliant.

Lol just kidding, im actually happy that this will bring us closer to the server wipe. That's about the only thing im looking forward to.

nikitpavlov
10-07-2019, 10:40 PM
Thanks for the info

vedlinyrim
10-08-2019, 07:15 PM
can you make it JTL 0.1? such as (no space combat) but at least have the options to build cruisers as mobile homes and storage so we could invest into that instead of travel costs? it would open up another entertainment option in decorations and another means of travel. When i was playing JTL back in the day I would love to stand on my decorated cruiser and overlook Naboo, I would invite my friends to come onboard and we would chill and craft.. it was bomb!
just my thoughts?

Mobyus1
10-09-2019, 03:31 AM
can you make it JTL 0.1? such as (no space combat) but at least have the options to build cruisers as mobile homes and storage so we could invest into that instead of travel costs? it would open up another entertainment option in decorations and another means of travel. When i was playing JTL back in the day I would love to stand on my decorated cruiser and overlook Naboo, I would invite my friends to come onboard and we would chill and craft.. it was bomb!
just my thoughts?

https://youtu.be/oxwLOlCWkCY?t=2156

stonehocker
10-09-2019, 05:14 AM
https://youtu.be/oxwLOlCWkCY?t=2156

Man, I just watched this video and I just have to say Ö I like Lordkator and I'm so glad he's part of this project! Yes - don't tell me everything about every line of code, I want to discover it. Yes- finish the ground game, I do love JTL but this approach is just too sensible to fight.
Yes - stay true to your position to not steal code. Yes - I trust you, you don't need to defend any decisions to me.
Also, kind of neat to put a face to these online identities, nice to meet you guys.
Thanks.

david665
10-11-2019, 03:35 PM
Walking Carpet wrote "We have Ralph Koster that keeping an eye on SWGEmu development he knows the devs of JTL and im pretty sure he would try at least connecting with the right people or giving you clues as to how to proceed even if hes got hes hand tied contractually."
I absolutely don't see this happening. Koster has probably moved on, as he should have. Being aware of a project is quite different in being interested in it or supportive of it. As I understand it, Koster was burned bad by his time on SWG. SOE threw him under the bus as soon as it was convenient for them to do so, just like they did to the playerbase at the time to chase new subs, which never came.

Leylyah
10-11-2019, 06:24 PM
Thank you ALL for all the hard work, the countless hours, the headaches, etc.
Thank you most of all for not giving up even when it was bad.
And thank you for loving the same game we all love and being relentless,
getting back up when knocked down.

chillaxe
10-13-2019, 12:04 AM
Planets!

chillaxe
10-13-2019, 12:05 AM
And faction item balance and new planets!

Fedora
10-22-2019, 09:55 PM
I've read the first two pages of this and got irritated by the whining and negativity so I've skipped the other 11 pages. Sorry if I'm missing anything.

Wanted to say I fully support this decision/announcement and agree wholeheartedly with the judgement call. It's a bit pathetic that that visual representation needed to be made, but I feel it's pretty powerful if people would take the time to look at it.

Super pumped for 1.0. Super pumped for Suncrusher.

Super pumped to have all the devs.

Bring it on.

Cynglen
10-24-2019, 02:10 PM
I think the choice to focus on the ground game first and get that 100% is a very good one Devs. Thanks for being honest & open with your decision, really makes me feel like y'all are focusing on quality of the game over just copying what's been done before. I LOVED JTL in the original game, but would rather keep the strong community as-is on the ground with future hope of JTL than make the current game suffer for an entirely extra project.

LordSniper
10-25-2019, 10:53 PM
Love it guys/gals, thank you everyone for the hard work!

lamikgb
10-26-2019, 07:12 PM
Can i have one hug and kiss from Vlada?
Its all what im need right now and before to start another long-time waiting for JTL and Pre-CU SWG.
Anyway, im know we will be victorious.

Vlada
10-26-2019, 10:20 PM
Can i have one hug and kiss from Vlada?
Its all what im need right now and before to start another long-time waiting for JTL and Pre-CU SWG.
Anyway, im know we will be victorious.

As many as you need.

TuleenDonai
10-27-2019, 02:54 PM
Well, after reading all this I thought I'd add my thoughts to all this.

First, I've been watching all you folks (devs) for 15 years (I think) and I'm just amazed at your dedication to this project, and if you release 1.0 with just the ground game (as I also understood this was the [new?] plan,) then I say CONGRATULATIONS! On job well done! Working 15 years on ANY project is a respectable feat, let alone doing so voluntarily and on your own time - WOW!

Second, to all you folks reading, if you think ****** isn't watching all this, then you're just plain wrong. I have also watched this amazing company, called ******, since I was a child (50+ years.) Watched it as it evolved and grew into one of the most long-lasting, able-to-evolve, successful mega-company's in existence today! I watched as they expanded World-Wide putting theme parks everywhere, developed their own (working) Time-share Vacationing business (one of the last that's even worthy of considering,) created a new successful non-****** film studio - Touchstone Pictures, and bought up 21st Century Fox, ESPN, ABC (American Broadcasting Corporation,) LucasFilms ("Industrial Light and Magic, Skywalker Sound, and Lucas Licensing",) LucasArts, and Marvell Entertainment. They are JUST launching their own (soon to be wildly successful) Streaming Media Service to compete on the stage with Amazon, Netflix, and Hulu, and I bet I'm not alone in this group as being one who has ALREADY signed-up and committed $7.99 per month to THAT!

****** sees how successful (and unsuccessful) SWG by SOE was. They also see all the OTHER StarWars Games, and NONE have the dedicated fan-base like SWG (are you kidding me? People (old people, like me) patiently waiting over a DECADE for the resurrection of a game!) I just bet, ****** sees, all too clearly, the fan-base's desire for a multi-faceted, multi-planet, multi-professional, multi-political, MMORPG Universe to house a VR environment where anyone can be their favorite Star Wars character (even one you invented) and interact with others on the same level. Yes, they know. They are assessing whether or not they can make really $$'s investing in such a large, clearly, long-term project, and watching OUR devs, part-time, investing YEARS into the same thing, must give them pause - it does me.

[Steps-off soap box] Here is what, IMHO, I think you should consider doing:

1.) Go forward and release 1.0 with just the Ground Game - and don't try and fix ALL the bugs. Set up a maintenance team to address those details after you release - if you can find willing volunteers.

2.) Consider getting JTL working just enough to allow:
a.) People to own their own ships of their choosing, not based on Piloting skill, but based on their ability to pay for the components and have one built.
b.) Finishing the Shipwright profession to allow someone to actually build the ships.
c.) Folks to go to a starport and travel using their ship to another planet - directly.
... This I believe adds an "extra" desired element to SWGEmu.

d.) If it's possible, allow folks to "jump" into space, into orbit, plot a hyperspace course, and fly there.
e.) allow them to "fly" to Space Stations and communicate with them, just enough to land at a specified Starport.

i.e. pretend that Space is just this REALLY peaceful place right now. No war, no pirates, no conflicts.

f.) if it's possible, work on allowing folks to mine asteroids for "other" precious materials needed for making advanced ships.

Yes, this isn't going to satisfy the First Person Shooters that want to blast things out in space, BUT it does provide an added Roll-playing facet that I believe I'm hearing people want. After-all, you brought back Pre-Cu for it's "roll-playing" ability - not for it's first-person shooter aspects. Am I correct?


Tuleen Donai
Darykon Industries
Tatooine

"We're meant to build the ships, you wish to fly!"

Walking carpet
10-27-2019, 03:40 PM
Well, after reading all this I thought I'd add my thoughts to all this.

First, I've been watching all you folks (devs) for 15 years (I think) and I'm just amazed at your dedication to this project, and if you release 1.0 with just the ground game (as I also understood this was the [new?] plan,) then I say CONGRATULATIONS! On job well done! Working 15 years on ANY project is a respectable feat, let alone doing so voluntarily and on your own time - WOW!

Second, to all you folks reading, if you think ****** isn't watching all this, then you're just plain wrong. I have also watched this amazing company, called ******, since I was a child (50+ years.) Watched it as it evolved and grew into one of the most long-lasting, able-to-evolve, successful mega-company's in existence today! I watched as they expanded World-Wide putting theme parks everywhere, developed their own (working) Time-share Vacationing business (one of the last that's even worthy of considering,) created a new successful non-****** film studio - Touchstone Pictures, and bought up 21st Century Fox, ESPN, ABC (American Broadcasting Corporation,) LucasFilms ("Industrial Light and Magic, Skywalker Sound, and Lucas Licensing",) LucasArts, and Marvell Entertainment. They are JUST launching their own (soon to be wildly successful) Streaming Media Service to compete on the stage with Amazon, Netflix, and Hulu, and I bet I'm not alone in this group as being one who has ALREADY signed-up and committed $7.99 per month to THAT!

****** sees how successful (and unsuccessful) SWG by SOE was. They also see all the OTHER StarWars Games, and NONE have the dedicated fan-base like SWG (are you kidding me? People (old people, like me) patiently waiting over a DECADE for the resurrection of a game!) I just bet, ****** sees, all too clearly, the fan-base's desire for a multi-faceted, multi-planet, multi-professional, multi-political, MMORPG Universe to house a VR environment where anyone can be their favorite Star Wars character (even one you invented) and interact with others on the same level. Yes, they know. They are assessing whether or not they can make really $$'s investing in such a large, clearly, long-term project, and watching OUR devs, part-time, investing YEARS into the same thing, must give them pause - it does me.

[Steps-off soap box] Here is what, IMHO, I think you should consider doing:

1.) Go forward and release 1.0 with just the Ground Game - and don't try and fix ALL the bugs. Set up a maintenance team to address those details after you release - if you can find willing volunteers.

2.) Consider getting JTL working just enough to allow:
a.) People to own their own ships of their choosing, not based on Piloting skill, but based on their ability to pay for the components and have one built.
b.) Finishing the Shipwright profession to allow someone to actually build the ships.
c.) Folks to go to a starport and travel using their ship to another planet - directly.
... This I believe adds an "extra" desired element to SWGEmu.

d.) If it's possible, allow folks to "jump" into space, into orbit, plot a hyperspace course, and fly there.
e.) allow them to "fly" to Space Stations and communicate with them, just enough to land at a specified Starport.

i.e. pretend that Space is just this REALLY peaceful place right now. No war, no pirates, no conflicts.

f.) if it's possible, work on allowing folks to mine asteroids for "other" precious materials needed for making advanced ships.

Yes, this isn't going to satisfy the First Person Shooters that want to blast things out in space, BUT it does provide an added Roll-playing facet that I believe I'm hearing people want. After-all, you brought back Pre-Cu for it's "roll-playing" ability - not for it's first-person shooter aspects. Am I correct?


Tuleen Donai
Darykon Industries
Tatooine

"We're meant to build the ships, you wish to fly!"

WoW your talking about ****** as if they have a hearth and cares for people? , reread your post a couple of times you will clearly see that its a evil monopolistic company.
The only reason why ****** would watch this project would be to make money out of it or close it down.

TuleenDonai
10-27-2019, 09:10 PM
Hmmm... Wow. Half-empty ... Half-full.

Lolindir
10-27-2019, 09:35 PM
Get a smaller glass, then its full

sumion
10-28-2019, 02:59 PM
At this point, I think Star Citizen (lol) will come out before JTL by a long shot. Regardless, I'm happy with and fully support the decision to focus on the ground game and 14.1 for a 1.0 server wipe release. I very much look forward to Suncrusher.

Loc-nar
10-28-2019, 03:20 PM
Planets!

of the apes? Doesn't sound very canon to me.

priest81
10-28-2019, 08:05 PM
Dev team,

Y'all are doing a fantastic job. Thank you for your time and talents. Thank you for sacrificing meaningful days of your lives just so we ungrateful few can play a game.

JTL Fans,

Be the change you want to see. Learn coding, get experience, put in effort to build your passion. Don't be angry when another doesn't share your passion, or doesn't share your priority. Especially if you're expecting them to gratify you for free. (yeah...that sounds dirty.)

flugel76
11-01-2019, 07:50 PM
Without JTL, SWG was (and continues to be) a terrible pseudo-MMO.

It's your project, and you're not beholden to anyone, but no JTL, no point.

Vlada
11-01-2019, 10:54 PM
Without JTL, SWG was (and continues to be) a terrible pseudo-MMO.

It's your project, and you're not beholden to anyone, but no JTL, no point.

https://i.imgur.com/KNHDcl9.gif

flugel76
11-03-2019, 11:32 PM
It's also the opinion of the 500 accounts that stopped logging in after the announcement that should have been made 5 years ago. But w/e. It's your project to sabotage, just like all the others that have come and gone.

lordkator
11-04-2019, 12:13 AM
It's also the opinion of the 500 accounts that stopped logging in after the announcement that should have been made 5 years ago. But w/e. It's your project to sabotage, just like all the others that have come and gone.

Actually the logins have rebounded. And you're welcome to write the code yourself!

lordkator
11-04-2019, 12:34 AM
Considering this thread has devolved I'm closing it.