An Economic Guide That Works!!! GUARANTEED!!!

First I want to say as both a Master Artisan, and Master Marksman I have just about had it with the Prices of the stuff on any of the servers... and all of the Randomness of who sells what for how much!!!!

The Following Guide will explain an Economic Formula that WILL work if people use it... Now to all of you other Master Crafters out there... If ou feel this wont work for you then that is your Force Given Right... but at least do the math ONCE and post a reply to tell me what you think... FLAME Me if you want but this is a guide I use and I try to Enforce!!!

Step 1: Raw Un-Used Resource Pricing!

Take any Resource and add the total sum of the stats they have. ie: Overall Quality, Shock Resistance, Malability, So on so forth.

An Example of a non existant Material!!!

Overall Quality: 500
Shock Resistance: 600
Malability: 300
Conductivity: 200
Decay Resistance: 900

The Total of all of this would be: 2500

Now Take the Total and Divide it by the number of total stats... In the above Sample that would be: 5

Sample Equation: 2500 / 5 = 500

Now again divide the final number by 100

Sample Equation: 500 / 100 = 5

This would be the cost per unit of the sample non existant resource...


Step 2: Crafting!

Sample Schematic Requires 20 units of the above Resource... so the cost of crafting the sample item would be 100

Sample Equation: 20 x 5 = 100

That is the Cost of crafting Sample Schematic

Now Obviously to sell the sample final item you would break even... maybe lose money if you bought your resources for more than what they are worth!!!


Step 3: Making a Profit using experimentation or the OVERALL quality of your item!

Sample Schematic on final creation comes out with 3 Quality ratings...

Effectiveness: 20%
Efficency: 25%
Range: 30%

Take your Total PErcentile ratings and add them together then divide by the number of the percentiles.

Example a.: 20 + 25 + 30 = 75
Example b.: 75 / 3 = 25%

Now Take the 100 Credit Value for the creation of the item and multiply it by the Overall Percent!

Example c.: 100 x 25% = 25

Now add your final outcome to the 100 credit cost!!

Example d.: 100 + 25 = 125

So If you sold the Example Item for 125 credits.. you are making a 25 credit profit above and beyond your cost in this guide!

Now this guide reflects my pricing system.. for anything i craft... obviously your prices will vary GREATLY depending on the quality of your item... It will take honest crafters to make the economy of this game stable... as well as trust from your customers to believe your prices reflect the quality... I have built a semi decent Resource Trade business on Corbantis using this pricing system.. I do give friends a small break but my resource prices are based on the above system and i firmly believe that it will work for every crafter / trader / wheeler and dealer on all servers...

Granted there are items that are found on the corpses of your enemies that were not crafted... but most of these items are junk or useless compared to crafted items by players... One of the many Aspects of SWG I like above and beyond ALL other MMORPG's that i have played...

I hope this may help anyone new or old player Master or Novice Crafter to make money and get your business off the ground.. as it stands right now Prices vary so much on every server i have seen resources being sold on bazaar terminals and on vendors for in excess of 10 creds per unit That is rediculous price gouging especialy for the novice crafters who want to jump in and ply they're skills to the public... No Resource should cost 10 creds per... basicaly that would mean that every stat on the item is 1000 and that just isnt gonna happen on Most resources... you may come close with some resources that have only 2 stats.. and they are both 900+ but I have been playing and Sampling since second day release and have yet to see any resource with 1000 in more than one stat!!!

So Keep It Real People... Try my Formulas.. If it works for you Great.. but If you want to be a dishonest Merchant... and sell your Grinding Junk for top prices... you will soon go out of business as the game and the economy advances!!!!

Thank You Have Nice Day!!!
Dameos

duh... Posted @ Sat, Jul 24th 9:57 AM 2004 By: Sindarlee 8 posts Score: Decent [3.00] Like the others said, law of supply and demand. You don't NEED any formulaes, you just see what others are asking for similar products on the market and consider if it's worth the effort!                                                       0 Replies

Lost like me????? Posted @ Mon, Mar 1st 8:03 PM 2004 By: abak 10 posts Score: Decent [3.00] Im starting to really think this game sucks. I dont want to do geometry to buy a product. Right now I go to the bazaar, and I look at an item I might need. Like boots. And I look at all the stats and I ask myself... is this a good deal? At the bottom it list something against health, action etc...does that mean if I wear such and such boots, it will make me tired and stupid?? I am so lost with SWG. Mind you I played EQ for 4 years, and that is supposed to be a help. God help the newbie to this game. I even bought the PRIMA book. Its no help. I am reading posts on this website... very very little help. Im about to go back to EQ if I dont start to see some light in this dark room.   ---------------------------- By honor and selflessness do we travel this path. 1 Reply

RE: Lost like me????? Posted @ Fri, Mar 5th 3:54 PM 2004 By: Coronus 17 posts Score: Decent [3.00] It sounds to me like you need to be a little more patient.  Iw as in the same boat as you being a former EQ player myself. I found out the hard way that the learning curve for SWG is astronomically (no pun intented) steeper than EQ (which for all intensive purposes is flat). What you need to do is find someone who is doing something your interested in and try to form a freindship there. For example, I looked up a master artisan several days and much frustration into the game. I have gotten a really good friend out of it in a couple of monthes and he has helped me out big time by giving me things (which i never asked for) not to mention the advice he has given me has been invaluable. If you are still having problems make a char on corbantis and look me up under Coronae. I will be glad to help you out in any way i can.   1 Reply  RE: Lost like me????? Posted @ Tue, Jul 27th 2:44 AM 2004 By: Sindarlee 8 posts Score: Decent [3.00] Sorry guys, but I don't understand how it can be so hard for some people; it took me less than an hour to get all the basics down, and get well on my way on a few professions (marksman, artisan). Granted, the game is not for kids, and I think that's a REALLY good thing - but it really isn't all that complex, I have had no problems learning games that are hundreds of times more complex. :-(                0 Replies

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For the Love of God Posted @ Fri, Oct 10th 10:17 AM 2003 By: PillsburyNinja, Eater of Souls 7 posts Score: Decent [3.00]    Reality check people. This is a game. Real money is not involved, don't get so worked up for nothing.                                                                   0 Replies

selling crap Posted @ Thu, Oct 9th 12:34 AM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] oh god ppl the only thing you need to go with is the overall quality of the resource believe me its been tested through and through and proved true if the oq is 500 then charge 5 cpu etc.. unless the resource is a month old and cant be found anymore then that changes everything                              0 Replies

Ok Ok Ok Posted @ Fri, Sep 19th 12:44 AM 2003 By: Dameos 50 posts Score: Decent [2.63] Ok people forgive me my ignorance... I wasnt thinking 100% fully along the lines of someone who is running 500 harvesters... in the attempts to follow this guide i was using my own personal experience... and my own personal notes... forgive me once again.. I do so appologize if i offended you in any of my replies.. and if i offended any of you with my simplistice newby knowledge guide.. i failed to take into consideration the costs of running harvesters... and instead leaned towards the newby crafters who either cant afford harvesters or dont use them... again forgive me... i have re-thought the guide and its steps... and if it were at all possible to remove the guide i would but unfortunatly i cannot.. heh forgive me yet again!!!! Dameos   ---------------------------- I live to die by the sword! 1 Reply

RE: Ok Ok Ok Posted @ Fri, Sep 19th 7:00 PM 2003 By: yeamar Scholar 46 posts Score: Excellent [4.60] Personally, I still sell by your step 1 approach - sum of the stats divided by 100, divided again by the number of stats as a "per unit" selling price, works great, and my cost is usually lower than other players per unit price and never have trouble selling my stuff ;o)                            ---------------------------- Cormyn, 54 monk, http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=615074 Cormyn, Rogue in World of Warcraft 0 Replies

Ok, here we go Posted @ Wed, Sep 17th 8:40 AM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Good [4.00] Ok, I�m the author of the �Input � output� flame regarding your economical guide. Yes, it was a flame, because you asked for flames *g* Sorry, didnt want to be that rude. I�ll explain it here entirely. No, I dont have any master degrees, but I am a business engineer. That doesnt mean that this is the absolute truth, but I also had some thoughts of the SWG economy. And your guide seems to me, as I had already written, like a horoscope. It looks nice, but in an free economy you wouldnt stand for more than a few days if the customers would be rational (full market transparency, buys the cheapest products, knows what prodcuts suits best, etc). Input is what you need to get the result. Usually you take the credits (or $) because input can be time, energy, ressources, and to sum it up you have to use a base unit, which is credits. Output is NOT the product but the amount of credits you get for the product (it can be service, too...). Profit is output - input. That is the base for the following calculation. Let�s say  someone would ask me to produce fireworks for a great show and asks me for the costs. Lets assume he asks me for 200 fireworks. How would I calculate it? It takes time to produce products, to sample, to survey, even to sell. So the question is, how much is my time worth. IMHO the easiest way to calculate this is to see how many credits you can make doing missions. I am an artisan, so I make survey missions which gives me around 1600 cr each run, one complete run takes 10 min. So I can make almost 10k an hour with missions. Now we need the ressources. There are probably 3 ways to get them - I sample them on my own - I have harvesters - I buy them I assume you have zour own wind generators and harvesters. Harvesters need energy and maintenance. Actually, a small harvester costs 720 cr each day and consumes 600 units energy. If you have a wind generator, you would have to pay 1440 cr each day for the power. Lets say, wind ressource is 40% and mineral / chemical is 70%. You would get 5 * 0.4 * 60 * 24 = 2880 units energy for 1440 cr => 1 Unit = 0.5 credits You would get 2 * 0.7 * 60 * 24 = 2016 units chemicals / minerals / etc for 720 + 300 credits for energy = 1020 credits => 1 Unit ~ 0.5 credits. This is a very basic calculation. Later you will see that it might be better to use other figures, but its fine right now. A firework needs 6 mineral, 6 chemicals, 2 gas. We will use average ressources with 500 OQ (firework only depends on OQ). To create 200 fireworks, I need 1200 minerals and chemicals + 400 gas = 1600 units ressources = 800 credits for ressources. How long does it take to built them? I could drop them in a factory, but I dont have any so I dont have a clue how long it would take or how mich it would cost. So I will make them manually without experimenting (its easier to calculate). One firework takes around 20 seconds I think, I can run 3 crafting tools parallel which would result in... hm... lets say 30 minutes with a little break. And here is the problem: 30 mins work means I could have done missions all that time and get 4800 cr. 800 credits / 200 fireworks = 4 credits each firework, if we dont count the time in 5600 credits / 200 fireworks = 28 credits each firework, including the time As you can see, it�s a huge difference. But we are not finished yet, dont worry *g* As I stated earlier, the costs for the harvester is devided in maintenenance and energy, which would be 980 credits per hour. While its not false, its also not the absolute truth. Sometimes you have to redeed the harvesters and wind generators (or simply destroy them and buy new ones). You can get wind generators and harvesters quite cheap on the market (sometimes for 500 cr) which should also be added to the total maintance costs. And dont forget the time you spend on searching a new home for them. Another problem is the fact that the energy you feed them could also be sold on the market. I showed you that 1 Unit energy would cost 0.5 cr. But you can sell it for ~ 2 credits. Lets calculate again for the harvesters and wind generators: Assumptions: a ressourcesh*t takes place every 8 days. You need 30 minutes for each ressource to find a new one. Wind generator takes 1440 credits each day, multiplied with 8 days = 11520 credits + new wind generator (500 cr) = 12020 cr + time to find new place 4800 cr = 16820 / 8 = 2103 cr each day / 2880 units energy = 0.73 credits per unit energy. I just did that calculation to show you how much an unit energy costs overall, we dont need it for further calculations because we already found out that an unit energy will cost us 2 credits anyway. Harvester: 720 each day * 8 = 5760 + 8 * 500 for new one + 4800 for time = 11060 / 8 = 1383 / 2016 Units ~0.7 credits each unit ressources. We still need 1600 ressources for the fireworks, so we got 1600 * 0.7 = 1120 cr total / 200 Fireworks = 5.6 credits for each firework (and not 4 as we calculated earlier). We still have to add the time (4800 credits), ergo 1120 + 4800 = 5920 / 200 = ~ 30 credits each firework. What does that mean? We have some figures for each firework: 4 credits, if we only regard the pure ressources 5.6 credits, if we only regard the pure ressources and time + money spend to find new ressources 28 credits, if we only regard the pure ressources + time to produce them (without money spend to find new ressources) 30 credits total And here comes another problem... we would like to sell the items, right? But how much can we ask? It�s really hard to find out. Best way is to take a look around what other artisans are asking for (if their products have same quality etc). No, I didnt say: Just add 25% to the total costs and sell it. Thats bullsh*t. (in terms of economy, but of course you can do it). If many other artisans are around and sell the same product, you would like to compare their average prices with your costs: If the price is lower than the toal costs, you wont make any profit. You might think now: Hey, why are they selling their products so cheap then? There are several reasons. Maybe they didnt count in all costs. Or they got ressources cheaper(by friends or PA). Or they dont want to make profit but getting exp fast. If the price is equal to your total cost, you can sell your stuff to the same price and you know that you wont make any losses. If the price is higher than your total cost, you can sell your stuff to the same price and make some profit. But there is also another option: You could sell your goods higher or lower than the average price asked for the product. If your products are more expensive, no one will buy it (theoretically!) as long as there are units for all consumers. You can also sell them cheaper, which would mean that you can sell your products faster. The other artisans, as soon as they notice it (and we are talking about an perfect market / economy, so they will recognize that very fast), will also lower their prices, so thats not a good idea. Actually, its better to sell the goods for the average price and try to lower the costs of the product to maximize profit. Lets say that you produce something that alomst no one else slees, and there are customers which will buy them. The way to maximize profit is to multiply all different variations of the amount of products you can sell on the market to a given price. Examples for the firework (remember. We assume that I�m the only one selling it right now!). I could sell 0 firework for 10k credits. I could sell 100000000 firework for 1 credit. I could sell 100 firework for 100 cr. I could sell 500 for 70 credits. And so on. So it would be better to sell 500 for 70 credits (500 * (70-30) = 20k Profit) than selling 100 for 100 cr (100 * (100-30) = 7k Profit). Determing how many products you can sell for which price isnt easy of course, it takes some time and experience to find out. So lets say I sell the 200 fireworks for 50 cr each (its an average price here), I would make 200 * (50-30) = 4k profit. No, we are not finished yet *g* What happens, if the orderer tells me that I am too expensive and he could get fireworks for 20 cr each? I could deny because I wouldnt loose money doing so. But I could also accept.. the reason behind is that I am not really loosing money. 1 fireworks costs 5.6 credits. So I won�t have less money after the job than before. BUT I could have make more money during that time. Doing this job can result in commercial, public relations, and more (and better) orders. So I have 3 ranges for the firework: Price < 5.6 credits => I would burn money, no thank you 5.6 < Price < 30 credits => Maybe I do it, maybe not *throws a coin* Price > 30 credits => Yeah So, that is the way I would calculate prices and profit. I know what you are thinking: There is no perfect market with perfect customers, what happens if you cant sell everything that you produce, etc. And there are still some points missing. You are right :o) Its pure theoreticcaly, but maybe you can use some aspects from it :) Let�s make the calculation using Dameos� method: Stat is 500 / 1 = 500 / 100 = 5 We need 1600 Units: 5 * 1600 = 8000 I�m not sure what experimenting does on firework, but lets take 25%: 8000 * 1.25 = 10k Oh... Dameos and I will both ask 10k for the fireworks (it�s random, because I took the price of the market, and you used some figues / stats to determine that number). The difference is, that I can tell you that I got 4k profit, you made 2.5k. Strange *g*   4 Replies

RE: Ok, here we go Posted @ Wed, Sep 17th 1:09 PM 2003 By: Ramalama 5 posts Score: Decent [3.00] But what's important isn't necessarily the exact equation, but you at least took the time to really examine what your true expense was to help determine the final cost to you and then used that to develop a price.  That was where I think the inital author's design is flawed. Epav Cadi Master Artisan/Droid Designer/Novice Merchant Mospic High Plains, Tatooine Lowca Galaxy Wild Knights PA   0 Replies  RE: Ok, here we go Posted @ Wed, Sep 17th 9:23 AM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] rofl, did even more errors... I should go back to school *sigh* Forget the entire post, please                                                                   0 Replies  RE: Ok, here we go Posted @ Wed, Sep 17th 9:16 AM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] Jesus... and another mistake... I said "A firework needs 6 mineral, 6 chemicals, 2 gas. We will use average ressources with 500 OQ (firework only depends on OQ). To create 200 fireworks, I need 1200 minerals and chemicals + 400 gas = 1600 units ressources = 800 credits for ressources. " it should be "A firework needs 6 mineral, 6 chemicals, 2 gas. We will use average ressources with 500 OQ (firework only depends on OQ). To create 200 fireworks, I need 2400 minerals and chemicals + 400 gas = 2800 units ressources = 1900 credits for ressources. " Sorry folks, forget the numbers *sigh*   0 Replies  RE: Ok, here we go Posted @ Wed, Sep 17th 9:06 AM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] Ops, made some errors in that calculation I just notcied. Forgot to include the critical failures and that the ressources you use should also count in with the market price, not the costs you have to get them (like energy)                                         0 Replies

In reply to the author's replies to the comments made... Posted @ Tue, Sep 16th 4:35 PM 2003 By: Ramalama 5 posts Score: Decent [3.00] You have stated that this is a base guide.  The problem that I personally see here is that it is too basic. I placed a pricing spreadsheet on the SWG Official Forums, SWGCraft, and soon here so that Droid Engineers may get a basic understanding of their costs, and subsequently use that to help determine their pricing structure and net income. That then sparked someone else to do the same thing. I'm getting ready to email them to Allakhazam for review for posting. They both were base guides, but here are the differences: What about basic demand for a shortage of material? What about cost of energy? What if energy is purchased or harvested? What about level necessary to create the item? What costs are allocated from factory produced items? What about cost of vendors? How do you allocate cost of house to keep the vendors in? What if you are limited to only using the bazaar? What about different types of harvesters? How do you figure in travel costs to other cities/planets? These are just a few questions that should be at least looked at when trying to price items. It is a game, but you also need to show some knowledge when trying to introduce ideas and concepts. And yes...I do not use an anonymous tag here or in game. And guess what...I'm just about done with my MBA also, so I am trying to show how pricing and economic models can be applied here. Epav Cadi Master Artisan/Droid Designer/Novice Merchant Mospic High Lands, Tatooine Lowca Galaxy Wild Knights PA   0 Replies

To Everyone Posted @ Sun, Sep 14th 8:52 PM 2003 By: Dameos 50 posts Score: Default [2.00] Once Again people refuse to read the guide for what it is... a guide.. a guide is nothing set in stone.. and if you would do a little math you will see this will work granted on your server 5 creds for a unit of any resource may be to little or to much.. but before you continue to slam me, degrade me, attack me in e-mails do the math.. and at least have the decency to Post with a name and not some anonomys bullcrap..  just about everyone who has posted on this thread is anonomys... and does nothing but blast it, me and my intelligence.. if you do the math you will see it is FAIR and a GUIDE by which to twist and use.. just a begining people... Does the TV Guide tell you what to watch and how to watch it? NO... Does the programming GUIDE on your Remote Control tell you That this is how it has to be... Well heh maybe it does bad example.. I know i asked for critisism hell i even said flame me.. but that doesnt mean e-mail me with your rude and crude remarks...   ---------------------------- I live to die by the sword! 0 Replies

ROFL Posted @ Fri, Sep 12th 11:20 AM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.33] Never ever saw a more stupid economical guide than that one, sorry. What is input? What is output? What is profit? You forget to mention the time it takes which should also count in. Go to an economic school and get some skill before you try to write a guide, otherwise all that poeple who don't have a clue thinks that your guide will work. If it is working for you, fine. It's like a horoscope: Today somethign bad will happen to you...   1 Reply

RE: ROFL Posted @ Sun, Sep 14th 8:56 PM 2003 By: Dameos 50 posts Score: Default [2.00] What do you mean what is input? What is output? what is profit? its there in numbers... now who needs to goto school..  5 plus 5 is 10... 10 divided by 2 is 5... how much more simple would i have to make it so all you MBA Morons can understand it? no there is no statistical data behind my writings.. it is simplistic math so everyone may have a GUIDE by which to work with... by which to work by.. by which to base they're own pricing system on... you want input.. input is a unit of measurement placed intoo something be it grams, kilograms, ounces, pounds... in this guide the input is the resource you use... to get the cost of the resource read the guide and read what it says and understand what it says.. the output you ask.. the output is the fraggin item your making.. and the profit.. gee i dunno the 5% 10% 20% 35% markup above and beyond your cost of the item INPUT you used comes out to be.. READ THE GUIDE dont jump the bandwagon!!!   ---------------------------- I live to die by the sword! 0 Replies

I am the Creator of this guide Posted @ Fri, Sep 12th 1:52 AM 2003 By: Dameos 50 posts Score: Default [2.00] Firstly I have read through all the posts here and I greatly appreciate the critisism, and input of all who have given a read to my guide... Secondly I am not Trying to "Impose" or "Force" my views on anyone... I should have put in the Title "Works For ME" but hey I forgot.. heh... BAsicaly This guide as it states in the Final Area says this works for me... and if it works for you great... I was kind of hoping for a bit more praise over the being called a Pinko Comunist... I did not want to impose anything on anyone.. nor did i mean for this guide to taken as such.. like all kinds on the site... take what you want from it or leave it... and again as i sated It works for me on my Server... so i use it... I am not Rich nor by any means do i want to be rich... I enjoy running around.. and crafting in my down time... simply put I am sorry if this guide upset you in anyway shape or form or led you to believe that i was trying to "IMPOSE" my views and thaughts on anyone... I wasnt.. I have struggled for a way to guage my prices on my vendors since i started the game i finaly found one that works for me and i am going to use it.. if it means i dont sell anything then so be it... if it means i become the richest guy in the game so be it.. either way i will still be having fun when alot of people are quitting or leaving the game due to whatever reason!!! Dameos   ---------------------------- I live to die by the sword! 0 Replies

Sounds like a joke to me Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 5:59 PM 2003 By: igordin 136 posts Score: Decent [3.04] Let's say I make X. Average item of X has "Quality rating" of 25 but I make X with "Quality rating" of 30 Do U really think I should sell it only 5% higher then average? or I make X with "Quality rating" of 15 which would make it complete crap compared to 25 average.  Should it be sold for 10% less?! What idiot gonna buy it?               ---------------------------- igordin 1 Reply

RE: Sounds like a joke to me Posted @ Fri, Sep 12th 1:58 AM 2003 By: Dameos 50 posts Score: Decent [3.00] The pricing system above is meant to give a way to price the "Crap" to sell it.. not in anyway made to make money or force people buy it.. basicaly if your a newb with your 250 starting creds.. and you check out the bazaar for a weapon better than your new pistol... and you see a pistol thats better but it costs 5k yes you want it.. your gonna buy it.. but not right now.. but wait there is a pistol for 200 creds... hmm its a little better... why not i will buy it... and when i have mor emoney i will buy the 5k one...   ---------------------------- I live to die by the sword! 0 Replies

just like in RL? Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 5:24 PM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [1.50] "It's only this bad because the "masters" are few right now. Capitolism(sic) will rule and the Con/Ripoff artist's will go away and a fair market will exsist." Yeah cuz that's how it happened in the real world, capitialism rules and there aren't many con-artists, a.k.a. corporations, that abuse their ability to set the cost of goods and services (seen a phone/cable/internet/electricity bill lately?) The power structure IRL and in SWG is an inverted pyramid, and the economy rests on the decisions of the few "big dogs."   0 Replies

Maybe time to take a basic Economics course.... Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 3:52 PM 2003 By: Ramalama 5 posts Score: Excellent [4.50] I read through all the posts so far and am in agreement with the vast majority of them.  Maybe the guide's author needs to take the time and read through an Economics book and understand how pricing, law of supply, and law of demand (also aggregate), apply to an economic equation. Granted, this is kind of a screwy economy because there are a lot of fluctuations that can DRASTICALLY screw up an economy (money supply and aggregate supply), but some of the basic laws of economics can still be applied.   1 Reply

RE: Maybe time to take a basic Economics course.... Posted @ Fri, Sep 12th 2:01 AM 2003 By: Dameos 50 posts Score: Default [2.00] I understand Economics friend... but this is a game.. supply and demand are evident.. i did mean to put a line in the guide that says prices will vary planet to planet based on availability but i forgot.. i am only human after all!!                                         ---------------------------- I live to die by the sword! 0 Replies

This is a joke right? Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 3:23 PM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] Using the least efficient power source and the least efficient harvestor on mediocre concentrations of both power and the harvested material you still break even at 0.67 cr/unit plus your time.  5cr/per for an average quality material? That's just sad. Price fixing. Market controls. Collusion. Man there are a bunch of pinkos on this board. Take a look around at the real world people - free market supply and demand capitalism is the only economic system that functions efficiently and successfully over any significant period of time. Just because prices change constantly and vary from location to location does not mean anything is wrong. In fact, that's pretty much what it's like in the real world too. When was the last time you paid the same amount for gasoline two stops in a row?   1 Reply

RE: This is a joke right? Posted @ Fri, Sep 12th 1:26 PM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] Agreed - this HAS to be a joke. But, in all seriousness, I'll point out a couple obvious flaws that the author overlooked: 1.) Many materials are used with only one or two stats in mind - Shock Resistance for the steel used in building swords, for example.  Also, certain materials are rare enough that regardless of quality, they're going to be extremely valuable - Dolovite Iron comes to mind. With your example, a metal that has a 999 SR and a two-digit rating in 7 other stats would be rated far lower than it should really be worth. 2.) Your formula is completely unrealistic, given the average prices on the bazaar. Perhaps your server is different, but on Corbantis, even the best materials will rarely get 5 credits per - usually the pricing ranges from 2-4 credits per. 3.) I realize you weren't trying to "impose" anything on anyone, but even suggesting that the SWG artisan community would even listen to your idea, let alone actually follow it is naive at best. Even if we all agreed to this as a good idea, we would do two things - first, we'd price ourselves out of the market and be unable to compete with regards to resource sales, and second, we'd totally destroy the pricing structure (what little there is) for the item market- your item prices, after all, would be significantly lower than what I've seen. Again - just my observations on the Corbantis server, but I'd suggest you go back to the drawing board.   0 Replies

Mistakes Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 2:23 PM 2003 By: Forthoffer 99 posts Score: Good [4.45] Typo in title of guide: "Works" should be "Does Not Work". A good Economic Guide That Works would take into account supply of resources, demand, and other factors. "Supply of resources" involves availability (which planets have what resources when), knowledge of availability (e.g., how many people know that Dathomir has Class 4 Liquid Petro Fuel now), how easy it is to get to good places to harvest (e.g., do you need a high-powered fighting team to get there?), what harvesters can be brought, competition for space to plant the harvesters, and stockpiles. "Demand" involves how many people need the product, how important the product is to them (e.g., it may be very important to use a T-21, and less important to have a backup T-21 for when your main T-21 decays), how rich they are, and how willing they are to spend time traveling to a purchase spot. "Other factors" include knowledge of where buyers are, cost of getting there, cost of getting there, vendor/selling fees, etc. In other words, figuring out the best price for resources is too complex for any simple formula or algorithm. At best, one could accurately model the SWG world and people's behaviors, allowing one to optimize prices, but even that would be difficult to accomplish and expensive to maintain. Another approach is to monitor what sells and what doesn't sell, though this also involves a lot of work, as well as a time lag. P.S. Economies function nicely even with fluctuating supply. It's just that their behavior is harder to predict. "Price gouging" does exist. That is when someone forces you to buy necessities at outrageous prices. The usual protection is competition, though that can be circumvented by monopolies. Fortunately, in SWG there are few necessities; for example, players can still play with high-end weapons instead of top-end weapons. Selling items at two credits per resource may lose you money. Costs include: - raw resource cost (of maintaining harvesters and power generators) - harvester/power redeeding costs (when resources shift locations) - time spent administering harvesters - wasted resources (not needed for making anything) - capital costs (store, crafting stations, tools, containers) - overhead (384 credits per day for store) - time spent assembling sub-components and final item - critical failures (e.g., on Sep 10 I crit failed a medium Tatooine house, losing approx. 20,000 resources) - profit (if any; sometimes I lose money)   ---------------------------- Fort/Forth, Valcyn (Forthoffer retired from EQ/Lanys, as a 65/155 cleric with effectively GM in all standard tradeskills) 0 Replies

Yeah Right Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 1:26 PM 2003 By: Leghyker 4 posts Score: Decent [3.00] Communism  A social system characterized by the common ownership of the means of production and subsistence and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members. You are clearly trying to organize crafters to a common pricing metodology for the common good of all. I don't think so you pinko communist.               1 Reply

RE: Yeah Right Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 3:04 PM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] Hahaha! You had to look Communism up in the dictionary? Then you don't understand the definition enough to understand how it doesn't apply and say that you hate it. Classic comedy! What the author is trying to do is make a server-wide standard price that everyone agrees to. That isn't communism, it is a cartel or price collusion. And no, I don't support the authors views. Despite the title, "An Economic Model That Works" this doesn't work. It is hard enough to get  a handful of masters of the same profession to agree to a standard price, yet the author thinks it will work for over 2,000 self-interested individuals. Free market = the seller is free to charge whatever he wants to meet his goals.   0 Replies

Aerotech Leader Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 12:18 PM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] Nice effort bud but this won't really work :(                                                                                0 Replies

Nice Try Though.. Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 10:23 AM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] Sorry but your resource pricing idea is just flat out terrible.  You're not taking into account availability or importance of stats to crafters (I'm a Master Armorsmith and the only stats that matter to me are OQ/Mal/UT/SR, the rest of the stats could all be 0 for all I care, doesn't affect my product). You can't just "average" the stats and charge some price for it *some stats are much more important to other stats, and which stats are more important depends on the resource*. You try to sell that terrible hypothetical mineral for 5cr/unit on Chilastra and you'll be laughed out of business. 4cr/unit is for a high quality resource that you need, currently in shift. And 10cr/unit is not necessarily price gouging. I'd pay 25 or 30cr/unit for kiirium steel, because I need it to make advanced composite segments, and there hasn't been any in multiple shifts. Even at those prices I can't acquire any. Supply and demand. Every Master Armorsmith needs Kiirium badly, so we're all yelling in towns looking for it, and there's just none available. I'm sorry that you're a low level crafter and have trouble understanding that, but a lot of my schematics require a very specific resource, and finding that specific resource is almost always a pain, and almost always very hard to find with good stats. So if I see somebody selling something I really need that's very rare for 10cr/unit you bet I'm snatching it up. Price Gouging? I don't think so, I'm a millionaire now, seem to be doing ok for myself.   0 Replies

Economics? Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 10:01 AM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] When I craft something to sell, I look at the bazaar at like items and price mine to sell.  That means I undercut the competition. Kinda like what you do in real life... Good luck with your math...                                         0 Replies

Why don't we just use the bartar system? Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 9:25 AM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] There is a whole lot of math being put out for this game; too much for my tiny little brain can handle.  I personally love that everything is player made and I adore the Bazaar system - I think it beats the hell out of the Bazaar Zone in EQ. If all this consumerist stuff is what you are all about then I say more power to you, but I'm all about exploring the worlds of a galaxy far, far away. This game is only, like, what? 2 months old? The prices are going to fluctuate on the bazaar for the life of the game. When someone is new they might over or under price an item, which will affect the market. There will be the old guard uber merchants who put good color name items up for sale who have relatively stable prices to advertise their shops that I know I probably wouldn't even try and go find because they are usually Out of Stock anyway. Then you get bums like me who throws up any old price that he thinks is good. I'll sell some small amount of harvested stuff, say if I have 250 units, the price is now 300-350. That's just me, cause I frankly would rather be out killing Sand People for killin' my mama! (what a crappy actor for anakin they got) That's my rant on that subject. I say we all hang up our nametags, and store keys, close up shop, and go on a Ewok Genocide Raid on Endor =) Wolfwood Cross   0 Replies

Dont agree Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 8:24 AM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] Overall Quality: 940 Shock Resistance: 960 Malability: 200 Conductivity: 50 Decay Resistance: 150 Heat Resistance : 100 Potential Energie : 200 Average = 372 So the resources from your exemple would be bether? Even if this would be a exelent resource for Melee weapons? ---------------------------------------- - Soft Undershirt - Durability 95%   Average Experimentation = 95% Profit = 95% - T21 Riffle - Durability 20% Damage 50% Range 20% Efficiency 60% Average Experimentation = 38% Profit = 38% So it would be lot more profitable to be a Master Artisan, dont you think? The point is: It wont work. The Ecconomy system of SWG is too complexe to use simple rules of management. Hi-end Resources and Crafts would suffer from these rules.   0 Replies

Another silly guide Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 8:14 AM 2003 By: Maketas 2 posts Score: Decent [3.00] Another silly economic guide. A few points: The cost of the resources should be as real life: if at a resource shift you have a 1000 OQ mineral and a 600 OQ mineral you should harvest the 1000 OQ at all cost, and disdain the other. So that week that mineral would be sold at 2:1 (due to its availability) and the other one for 1.2:1 or so. In the next resource shift, if the top OQ mineral is 800, the 1000 OQ of the last resource shift would be priced for 4:1 or 5:1, while the 800 OQ mineral would be sold for 2:1 and the 600 OQ for 1:1 or so. Thats how function real life economy: offer and demand. And the manufactured items are sold, normally, for twice its cost... This is how i price my items.   ---------------------------- The Grand Layouter 0 Replies

Sad to see... Posted @ Thu, Sep 11th 8:09 AM 2003 By: Anonymous Score: Default [2.00] I can't believe that another would try to invoke their ideas on all!  Won't work. One word for you = COMPETITION If you don't like people "price gouging" then move out of that area. And, you seem to have forgotten to include most of the basics to the Economic Laws, first of which being a STABLE source for materials. Until SOE stops changing the resources every 3 days, the economy on any server in this game is moot! (that means not even worth mentioning) And why is that? Because there IS NONE!!! It doesn't exist. Second law of economics you forgot about? The price of something, anything, is what the BUYER will pay at a given point in time. :)   0 Replies

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