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Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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Keldarin
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Registered: 06-27-2003



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Hey guys, I just got back from an amazing Fan Fest. It was a total blast getting to meet many of you and to talk about the game. Hearing your questions, comments and concerns directly made a huge impact and I expect we will be able to get more of the changes that are near and dear to your hearts into the game. The Jedi Revamp is obviously a major focus of ours right now and I wanted to get a response out as quickly as possible to address one of the big concerns that was brought up, which is the conversion of old Jedi skills to new.

One of the goals of the Jedi Revamp was to add some diversity to the Jedi population. Not all Jedi have the same abilities with the Force and we wanted to open up the possibility to create different kinds of Jedi with different strengths. Perhaps one Jedi is a master of lightsaber combat with no equal in that arena but doesn’t have as much ability when it comes to the more mystical Force powers, while another is only mediocre with their lightsaber but has incredible enhancement and healing powers. In order to accommodate this we created an entirely new skill structure with a lot more Force abilities split across a greater number of Force professions. This disparity made the conversion process quite difficult.

When Thunderheart initially posted that there would be a one-to-one skill box translation, it was before I had even written the translation system. Things have progressed due to play-testing and feedback to where this is not even physically possible. This was given as an analogy of effort to advance, and this analogy still holds true, even though this is no longer the literal case.

The conversion process is intended to translate the effort of gaining Jedi skills from the old system to the new system. A Jedi that has just begun under the old system will convert over to a Jedi which has just begun in the new system, while a Jedi who reached the pinnacle of their skill advancement would be able to take the maximum amount of skills under the new system. The way the skills translate between those two extremes is based on the amount of effort that was required to get there. I’m sure everyone knows that certain Jedi skill boxes are much, much easier to gain than others. We wanted to make sure that this was correctly accounted for during the conversion.

The conversion process assigns an effort value to every single old Jedi skill and uses the sum of that effort to determine the number of new Jedi skills that can be taken. This seemed the most fair and was easily scalable as we continued to tweak and balance the exact skill costs and the exact number of skills that will be able to be earned under the new system.

So as the system has evolved, it turns out that the conversion is not one skill box to one skill box, but it should be the most fair as far as rewarding effort spent in advancing your Jedi. The conversion calculations are only used to determine the exact number of skill points that can be spent on the new Force Discipline skills. All converted Jedi automatically get to choose 6 of the Force Sensitive skill lines (24 skills boxes) and none of those skills are counted in the conversion process.

Finally I’d like to stress that all of this is still in testing on TC2 and is still being actively tweaked and balanced. I urge all players with a Jedi on TC2 to log in and put the new Jedi system through it’s paces and post your feedback. We are listening, honest. We all want Jedi to be as incredible as it can possibly be.


~ Dave "Keldarin" White ~
SWG Live - Lead Systems Designer
06-07-2004 01:48 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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Nono_LO
Wing Commander
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Registered: 01-26-2004



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But people complains because the very beginning is the hardest...

I want to have the time in the old system to prove myself (level up) before the patch 9 kicks in for me, low initiate, but still powerfull.

In the new conversion, I won t be able to hold my saber as I used to.

I won t have the offensive power I used too.

 

The conversion has to be generous. Because the beginning IS the hardest, and walking throught initiate is the longest Jedi grind.

06-07-2004 01:58 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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Tlk
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Tlk
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Thank you for clarifying this issue, one request however. Given the current conversion window (very unforgiving if you make a mistake), is it possible to provide current jedi in advance the conversion system (or the skill points they will be allowed to spend)? This will allow current jedi to properly plan there conversion. Thank you.
06-07-2004 02:03 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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Wolph
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Wolph
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Keldarin wrote:

So as the system has evolved, it turns out that the conversion is not one skill box to one skill box, but it should be the most fair as far as rewarding effort spent in advancing your Jedi. The conversion calculations are only used to determine the exact number of skill points that can be spent on the new Force Discipline skills. All converted Jedi automatically get to choose 6 of the Force Sensitive skill lines (24 skills boxes) and none of those skills are counted in the conversion process.



Meaning we are not charged the points for those boxes and we have the full 250 to work with or we are charged the 24 points and they're not figued into the actual "effort"  translation into the new system?

Colonel Wolphak
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Kane-Sen Rok
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06-07-2004 02:04 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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nolan007
Jedi
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nolan007

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I suspect a lot of anxiety is due to the new hideously slow rate that Jedi XP is gained under the new sytem.   Jedi XP is far too hard to come by under the new system.  

I enjoy seeing progress from a grind session.  To me, fun in grinding comes from gaining a new skill after one or two grind sessions.  

With the new system, you'll easily go at least a week to almost a month without gaining 1 skillbox.

 

 

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( Maybe one day these ideas will be considered or implemented. Bump it, please? )
06-07-2004 02:07 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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JustanOobie
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One thing about the current sysytem is that all jedi are equal to each other when guardian 4444, except for the power of your sabre. Now its going to come back to who has the most uber template. The old system doesnt have this problem and thats what makes being a jedi fun you know that your as good as the next guy. Im just worried its all going to come back to what template/money you have.


llll-Peebo, Swordsman/TKM-llll
-Jack' Hammer, Jedi Padawan-
-Justan Oobie, Chef/Doc-
06-07-2004 02:07 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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SideWind3r
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Keldarin wrote:

Not all Jedi have the same abilities with the Force and we wanted to open up the possibility to create different kinds of Jedi with different strengths. Perhaps one Jedi is a master of lightsaber combat with no equal in that arena but doesn’t have as much ability when it comes to the more mystical Force powers, while another is only mediocre with their lightsaber but has incredible enhancement and healing powers.




When i first heard this i thought it was great but from the testing i hear that Defense and Lightsaber are a very strong combo.  If i was to get no lightsaber it would be incredibly hard to level up.  It therefore seems you need xxx4 (x = 4) in lightsaber just to get anywhere.   I know testing is still underway but what can be done to make force powers.. better but not imbalanced?

Nithalon Retzar

~Master Swordsman~
06-07-2004 02:07 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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RedDragon133
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So it will be close to XP counting issue,I guess.

But how about considerations you DEVs propably wont have:

- LS tree in apprentice is hard: your cap (personal difficulty) is high at this point. so to gain any reasonable XP you need to kill high level MOBS, with a training two handed LS. doing around 192 damage max. WOW. I remember it to be pain.

- the beginning as initiate, besides the LS tree, is really difficult. Your force is way low, no "milk lar trick", till 4024 at least! there you coulf milk a lair for 4k xp, extra. I know this is not as intended, but still you could do it, granting lots of XP. And your cap is lo. max 400XP per creature.

- the hardest part was to Padawan, too me. what about the rest of the Jedi on live? I remember at least at Padawan my cap (personal difficulty) raised and I got flurry! this speed up things a lot. raising 3h buffrun from 120k to nearly 200k! after this things go better. way better. XP needed is higher but gaining it is way faster!

Any idea, DEVs, how you might credit this? any idea? do you know about this?
06-07-2004 02:10 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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Nono_LO
Wing Commander
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Registered: 01-26-2004



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On a side note, it is good to be scale down to not overpower other class, it make the overall experience for all player much better.

I wouldn't like to be a walking killing machine or a threat for anyone. As more Jedi will walk the earth, they have to be balanced.

But the balanced came on the cost of our PVE power. Now the grind is unbearable on TC2 because we do 8K to 10K Jedi xp an hour at most. The xp need for the weapons made it so that the beginning is impossible (seems that always the beginning is the worst in the Jedi life)

People complain here because it is not FUN, to grind 800 hours to get one tree of skills, only 1/4 of a Jedi profession. Only some adjustement won't fixed that.

The tree and Jedi profession are all well done, and put a lot of fun to design template. Experimenting on Saber is fun too. But the saber does decay very fast, and before when we at least could defend always with a training saber, we are now COMPLETLY depending on a looted element, the color saber.
As the decay touch every pearl and also th ecolor saberm the decay rate is much worse than before, and we cannot repair anymore. I think you will hear people complain here too soon.
 
If you are listening, keep up the good work and please if things have to be made a certain way (harder grind?), tell it and don't hide it.
06-07-2004 02:12 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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chembelec
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chembelec

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Can you give us an example?  I am a 4333 initiate.  initiate boxes are the hardest to level.  What skills could i train in with the conversion? 

Thanks

Aleema Rar
SOE dictionary:
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improvement = dumbing down
enhancement = re-coding for xbox
veteran = the ones that will prolly cancel their accounts pretty soon
reward = something the new players don't mind not having
06-07-2004 02:12 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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LeBob
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Jedi should not be allowed to go neutral.  If this is allowed, there will be three factions in the game... Rebel, Imperial and Jedi... furthermore the occurence of seeing a saber-wielding Jedi will be too frequent as these neutral Jedi will not have to worry about a TEF and therefore will not have to worry about being ellimated by a factioned player.  In addition to this, as far as continuity is concerned, the Empire would never sit idely by as Jedi roamed the streets with their sabers in hand and using force powers in the streets... any Jedi during this time period is either against the Empire or is one of the Empire's servants... please design the game to reflect this.

thanks

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06-07-2004 02:17 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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RedDragon133
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@LeBob: why do soem ppl try to break fun in the name of contuinity? why or whatever this is supposed to be in fantasy/SciFi game.

Anyway, are you just another scared BH? Just asking, no flame. You know how much I enjoy the TC2, to PLAY my Jedi?
06-07-2004 02:21 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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Keldarin
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Registered: 06-27-2003



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Wolph wrote:

Meaning we are not charged the points for those boxes and we have the full 250 to work with or we are charged the 24 points and they're not figued into the actual "effort"  translation into the new system?
All Jedi must have the 6 lines of Force Sensitive skills therefore these are not counted against the "effort".   Jedi advancement is considered to begin at the first Force Discipline box.


~ Dave "Keldarin" White ~
SWG Live - Lead Systems Designer
06-07-2004 02:24 PM  

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Re: Post Fan Fest response concerning Jedi Conversion.
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Keldarin
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nolan007 wrote:

I suspect a lot of anxiety is due to the new hideously slow rate that Jedi XP is gained under the new sytem.   Jedi XP is far too hard to come by under the new system.  


We are still looking at and adjusting the Jedi advancement rates.  Expect to see many changes that will impact your advancement rates.  While we do intend Jedi advancement to be slower than most regular professions we are not trying to make it painfully slow.  So many aspects of Jedi have changed that coming up with the proper balance of power and progression is going to take a little while, please bear with us as we make these changes.


~ Dave "Keldarin" White ~
SWG Live - Lead Systems Designer
06-07-2004 02:28 PM  

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VempireAtDusk
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VempireAtDusk

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When is next reroll?, my character was never transfered properly i have 8 jedi skillpoints when i should have 250, im a guardian 4444 on live
06-07-2004 02:32 PM  

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