Well that's funny cuz the latest StarWars Insider staff response to an SWG player points the finger at SOE. I suppose it should come as no surprise that the Lucas people and the Sony people would start pointing fingers at one another.
To be extremely optimistic, you could say this shows that everyone realizes that a huge mistake was made.
To be realistic though, it's not a real sign of maturity to do the finger pointing thing. First of all, it doesnt' solve anything, and secondly, it doesn't show a hek of a lot of maturity.
A helpful response would be for parties to stand up and say, "hey we messed up by pushing the product before it was ready," or "to hek with the focus groups, we never should have taken so much from so many people, it was just hurtful and wrong." Ya that kind of stuff would be cool.
Until I see something like that, I'm not going to view the people running this show as credible or trustworthy, and I'm going to stick to the forums in support of the player community, until the time card I found under my desk runs out.
No one is suggesting Freeman was forced to do that. You are letting your blind (and I fear, a tad irrational) hatred of SOE get to you. Don't you think it is more likely he means that Jeff (or SOE) was acting at the direction of LA in implementing the NGE?
I have no idea whether that is what happened or not, but why are you trying to make JettJedi look foolish just because he disagrees with you?
And to clarify what I mean by the "Fishermagi Paradox", let me explain. You have stated on numerous occasions that SOW "hates players" and "wants to destroy this game." The concept of a company which exists solely to make money hating its players and wanting to destroy its own product, thereby ending its money flow, strikes me as a paradox. Does that clear it up for you?
First, I don't hate anyone. I don't even dislike anyone here. I think what they did was dishonest and unethical and yes small and petty evil.
I do NOT HATE them for it. In fact, I pray for them.
Now I do not think they hate anyone either per se, but I DO use that as a taunt against them because I am exasperated by how stupid and evil and pathetic they probably are.
Now, what if LA took the cintract from them, and said it's over, but you guys have to keep this game running until we open up our game, or else we'll sue your tush over violation of contract?
Wouldn't it make sense for them to "destroy the game" and at the same time poison the waters against LA, meanwhile be working on a agme very much LIKE pre-CU SOE (vanguard) so when LA came out with THEIR MMO you were ready with YOUR MMO, but in the meantime you poisoned the waters against LA so badly that no one even wants to look at the New Star Wars MMO, but yet everyone's been looking forward to Vanguard because of Brad's great Rep, and low and behold, a game LIKE pre-CU SWG exists for everone!
SOE cleans up, and LA gets squat.
Simple corporate greed and mean politics.
I'm not saying that's the case, BUT it is hard to believe that SOE could be as stupid as you are implying they are, they might be, but then that would mean they are the worst business people to ever walk the face of this earth, rather than just devious sons of busses.
Now remember when you say I said what I said, I was ALWAYS being facetious and speculative in exasperation because I find it hard to believe that big company like SONY would allow smedley to make such bad choices.
I'm not saying their are not that stupid, just it's way more fun calling them on the things I call them on with that extra juice. They can fix things at any time by changing their corrupt practices, and stop lying, stop spinning, stop shifting blame.
I'm still waiting.
Just remember my taunts to them may NOT be all you are thinking they are. I don't hate any of them. I'm barely angry at them. Most of what I post here is over-the-top humor, with a LOT of bite. But I do think they are liars and have been caught at it.
Doesn't mean I hate them merely means I will call them on it.
I want this game to be the best game in the galaxy, but it hardly seems they do, because they keep violating basic business 101 to do it. Now maybe you are right maybe they are the most stupid human beings to walk upon earth. I doubt it though.
Just remember I don't hate any of them. I don't hate anyone. Show me where I ever said I hated anyone? Calling lairs liars is not hate. Calling evil evil is NOT hate. It is merely stating an opinion about them due to their behavior. I never said they were criminal, just simple petty evil. That's not hate that is my opinion of them. Now you can go and call me a hypocrite, and continue to avoid the actual issue by attacking me again. Seems that's what you like to do. Sighs.
You don't hate them - got it. You just call them evil, lying, dishonest, corrupt, and petty - did I miss anything? Anyway, you did not answer the question - why are you trying to make JettJedi look foolish just because he offers a different perspective than you do?
As for attacking you, I am sorry you see it that way. You have made a minor career out of posting very opinionated, often inflammatory messages in these forums and that, I am sorry to say, means that you must subject yourself to the scrutiny of those who either disagree with you or who, like myself, abhor your tactics.I suppose if you view questioning your style of rhetoric an attack, then so be it.
Now, for fun, let’s parse your hypothetical:
Wouldn't it make sense for them to "destroy the game" (no – not so long as they are receiving income from it) and at the same time poison the waters against LA (what a devious mind you have!I approve!But no – not unless they want to run afoul of the LA attorneys.Contracts have an implied, and often express, “good faith and fair dealing” provisions that would put SOE in serious breach of contract, if they tried such a thing - and if you tell me that LA would never, ever play hardball with SOE over it, do I have some real estate for you!), meanwhile be working on a agme very much LIKE pre-CU SOE (vanguard)(SOE is not developing Vanguard, Sigil is, I believe – SOE is merely distributing it, though feel free to correct me if I am wrong) so when LA came out with THEIR MMO you were ready with YOUR MMO, but in the meantime you poisoned the waters against LA so badly that no one even wants to look at the New Star Wars MMO, but yet everyone's been looking forward to Vanguard because of Brad's great Rep, and low and behold, a game LIKE pre-CU SWG exists for everone! (Actually, it looks to me like Vanguard is more akin to EQ2 than SWG, at least in terms of its fantasy setting – does that mean SOE is trying to poison itself?)
I am sure the Devs sleep better at night, knowing that you are praying for their immortal souls. But I think they might appreciate it a bit more if you directed your ire (not hatred!!) at the specific things you dislike about SWG currently, and spend a little less time yielding to your more hyperbolic tendencies which, I am very sorry to say, sometimes comes off more as preachy and supercilious than “over-the-top humor, with a LOT of bite”.
Message Edited by Aerynne on 08-03-200602:31 PM
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
Well that's funny cuz the latest StarWars Insider staff response to an SWG player points the finger at SOE. I suppose it should come as no surprise that the Lucas people and the Sony people would start pointing fingers at one another.
To be extremely optimistic, you could say this shows that everyone realizes that a huge mistake was made.
To be realistic though, it's not a real sign of maturity to do the finger pointing thing. First of all, it doesnt' solve anything, and secondly, it doesn't show a hek of a lot of maturity.
A helpful response would be for parties to stand up and say, "hey we messed up by pushing the product before it was ready," or "to hek with the focus groups, we never should have taken so much from so many people, it was just hurtful and wrong." Ya that kind of stuff would be cool.
Until I see something like that, I'm not going to view the people running this show as credible or trustworthy, and I'm going to stick to the forums in support of the player community, until the time card I found under my desk runs out.
cheers,
Jaaaz
I'll agree about the finger pointing, but you must conceed that history is on SOE's side here.
Marvel Comics, Dark Horse Comics, West End Games, Wizards of the Coast all had issues with the Lucas Camp over content in their comics and games!
Hell, even fans had problems with the Lucas camp when they created websites bases on "characters" they created in the Star Wars Univers.
Lucas just does not want anyone standing on his lawn... He's a nasty guy now... He was real nice when he 'needed' us, but now? "It's my way or no way at all" - which is why we have all the EU history and lore shattered in the prequles.... He did not do it himself, therefore it's destroyed.
Aarun Lightseeker (Intrepid) Master Smuggler o Master Rebel Pilot (PRE-CU Rebel Colonel - Demoted Due To Lack Of PvP & Power-Gaming)
Lightseeker Family Museum Lok, City of Unknown -6363 -6244
Vet Player: 7/10/03 - Present (looking for HOPE!)
"We are not MMO players for the most part, we are Star Wars fans."
First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's.
So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed. =)
We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.
Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize.
Brenlo Bixiebopper Director, Global Community Relations - SOE --------------------------------------------- It's a rough life, but someone has to live it.
No one is suggesting Freeman was forced to do that. You are letting your blind (and I fear, a tad irrational) hatred of SOE get to you. Don't you think it is more likely he means that Jeff (or SOE) was acting at the direction of LA in implementing the NGE?
I have no idea whether that is what happened or not, but why are you trying to make JettJedi look foolish just because he disagrees with you?
And to clarify what I mean by the "Fishermagi Paradox", let me explain. You have stated on numerous occasions that SOW "hates players" and "wants to destroy this game." The concept of a company which exists solely to make money hating its players and wanting to destroy its own product, thereby ending its money flow, strikes me as a paradox. Does that clear it up for you?
First, I don't hate anyone. I don't even dislike anyone here. I think what they did was dishonest and unethical and yes small and petty evil.
I do NOT HATE them for it. In fact, I pray for them.
Now I do not think they hate anyone either per se, but I DO use that as a taunt against them because I am exasperated by how stupid and evil and pathetic they probably are.
Now, what if LA took the cintract from them, and said it's over, but you guys have to keep this game running until we open up our game, or else we'll sue your tush over violation of contract?
Wouldn't it make sense for them to "destroy the game" and at the same time poison the waters against LA, meanwhile be working on a agme very much LIKE pre-CU SOE (vanguard) so when LA came out with THEIR MMO you were ready with YOUR MMO, but in the meantime you poisoned the waters against LA so badly that no one even wants to look at the New Star Wars MMO, but yet everyone's been looking forward to Vanguard because of Brad's great Rep, and low and behold, a game LIKE pre-CU SWG exists for everone!
SOE cleans up, and LA gets squat.
Simple corporate greed and mean politics.
I'm not saying that's the case, BUT it is hard to believe that SOE could be as stupid as you are implying they are, they might be, but then that would mean they are the worst business people to ever walk the face of this earth, rather than just devious sons of busses.
Now remember when you say I said what I said, I was ALWAYS being facetious and speculative in exasperation because I find it hard to believe that big company like SONY would allow smedley to make such bad choices.
I'm not saying their are not that stupid, just it's way more fun calling them on the things I call them on with that extra juice. They can fix things at any time by changing their corrupt practices, and stop lying, stop spinning, stop shifting blame.
I'm still waiting.
Just remember my taunts to them may NOT be all you are thinking they are. I don't hate any of them. I'm barely angry at them. Most of what I post here is over-the-top humor, with a LOT of bite. But I do think they are liars and have been caught at it.
Doesn't mean I hate them merely means I will call them on it.
I want this game to be the best game in the galaxy, but it hardly seems they do, because they keep violating basic business 101 to do it. Now maybe you are right maybe they are the most stupid human beings to walk upon earth. I doubt it though.
Just remember I don't hate any of them. I don't hate anyone. Show me where I ever said I hated anyone? Calling lairs liars is not hate. Calling evil evil is NOT hate. It is merely stating an opinion about them due to their behavior. I never said they were criminal, just simple petty evil. That's not hate that is my opinion of them. Now you can go and call me a hypocrite, and continue to avoid the actual issue by attacking me again. Seems that's what you like to do. Sighs.
You just call them evil, lying, dishonest, corrupt, and petty - did I miss anything?Anyway, you did not answer the question - why are you trying to make JettJedi look foolish just because he offers a different perspective than you do?
You have made a minor career out of posting very opinionated, often inflammatory messages in these forums and that, I am sorry to say, means that you must subject yourself to the scrutiny of those who either disagree with you or who, like myself, abhor your tactics.I suppose if you view questioning your style of rhetoric an attack, then so be it.
Or perhaps it was both.It simply makes more sense to me – Occam’s Razor and all – although I am perfectly willing to concede arguments can be made either way.
Now, for fun, let’s parse your hypothetical:
no – not so long as they are receiving income from it) and at the same time poison the waters against LA (what a devious mind you have!I approve!But no – not unless they want to run afoul of the LA attorneys.Contracts have an implied, and often express, “good faith and fair dealing” provisions that would put SOE in serious breach of contract, if they tried such a thing - and if you tell me that LA would never, ever play hardball with SOE over it, do I have some real estate for you!), meanwhile be working on a agme very much LIKE pre-CU SOE (vanguard)(SOE is not developing Vanguard, Sigil is, I believe – SOE is merely distributing it, though feel free to correct me if I am wrong) so when LA came out with THEIR MMO you were ready with YOUR MMO, but in the meantime you poisoned the waters against LA so badly that no one even wants to look at the New Star Wars MMO, but yet everyone's been looking forward to Vanguard because of Brad's great Rep, and low and behold, a game LIKE pre-CU SWG exists for everone! (Actually, it looks to me like Vanguard is more akin to EQ2 than SWG, at least in terms of its fantasy setting – does that mean SOE is trying to poison itself?)
But I think they might appreciate it a bit more if you directed your ire (not hatred!!) at the specific things you dislike about SWG currently, and spend a little less time yielding to your more hyperbolic tendencies which, I am very sorry to say, sometimes comes off more as preachy and supercilious than “over-the-top humor, with a LOT of bite”.
Message Edited by Aerynne on 08-03-200602:28 PM
Message Edited by Aerynne on 08-03-200602:28 PM
that's your problem not mine. I've never attacked you, but you seem to have nothing better to do but continually attack ME. Not my message, but ME. Whatever.
_____________________________________________
"I find your lack of faith disturbing." - Lord Vader, Bringer of the Balance. Sometimes the Force needs someone to do its dirty work.
First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's.
So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed. =)
We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.
Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize.
Thanks for being man enought to post that, Bren. For some of us, that's all we've been asking for.
Cigaran Lanarik Mayor of Alacio Island, Naboo C
Smuggler,Smuggler's Alliance Pilot Drop off Vendor @ -1419 -187 Naboo
First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's.
So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed. =)
We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.
Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize.
Being sorry isn't enough.
What are you going to do about it?
Account active 'till November 10th, contact me on forum name: Stamina
I was editing as fast as I could - stupid formatting! Ah well, a few sentences were dropped, but so be it. In any case, it seems we have a definitive answer, assuming you believe something posted by an SOE employee.
"Men do not quit playing because they grow old; they grow old because they quit playing." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's.
So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed. =)
We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.
Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize.
No arguement there, and apology accepted!!!!!!
And I don't expect the finger-pointing to go on more... But being serious, the NGE has LucasArts written all over it.
Aarun Lightseeker (Intrepid) Master Smuggler o Master Rebel Pilot (PRE-CU Rebel Colonel - Demoted Due To Lack Of PvP & Power-Gaming)
Lightseeker Family Museum Lok, City of Unknown -6363 -6244
Vet Player: 7/10/03 - Present (looking for HOPE!)
"We are not MMO players for the most part, we are Star Wars fans."
First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's.
So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed. =)
We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.
Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize.
... A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.
At what cost? Your corporate image? Your fiercely loyal existing SWG players? You're right, what's past is past and I don't mean to debate that. But communication isn't the only problem with how the NGE was handled. There was zero regard for a great number of players and their achievements. Before you know it a year will have passed since the NGE, yet there are simple bugs that have been ignored for well over two years.
What sort of image does that convey to people?
Y i v v i t s
My words of wisdom to the developers: Fix, Improve, Never take away.
Listen to "Star Wars Galaxies with Yivvits and MrBubble"
First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's.
So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed. =)
We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.
Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize.
really? thats all you messed up?
This is 5 percent luck, twenty percent skill, fifty percent concentrated power of will, twenty percent pleasure, 5 percent pain: A hundred percent reason to remember the name:
First a request, to those of you using this thread as your personal battleground, please take it to PM's.
So, I wanted to clarify that we did, here at SOE conceive and develop the NGE. We did so with the best of intentions, to try and make a better game. No blame or buck is being passed. =)
We can, and I am sure many of us will, debate for years on end whether this was a good idea. Personally, I believe the concept of the NGE was sound. Some smart guys had some good ideas to make the game better, Jeff being one of them, and they went for it. A bold move and honestly, I am happy to be a part of a company that is not afraid to try something different.
Where did we go wrong? Delivery, we failed in our timing and communication. That is where we let you down most, SWG faithful, and for that I truly apologize.
Yes... we truly appreciate this 9 MONTHS YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID IT.
Hurgis & Haldi Balthezan - HB Armouries. Elder 12pt Armorsmith, R.I.S Certified. Supplying Weaponry and Armor to a galaxy in need.
"It’s often frustrating to work with third party IP. There’s a constant battle over what the right direction is for the game, and from our own recent experience, it’s not something we enjoy. It very often puts handcuffs on what we can and can’t do and, frankly speaking, it’s a lot harder to make great games when the IP holders don’t understand the online gaming market.
The exception to this rule has been our relationship with the team at DC Comics. I have to say they are indeed a pleasure to work with. Jim Lee’s involvement as the Executive Creative Director has been a hell of a lot of fun. I just saw the latest build, and the team has come up with a combat system that I think is hands down the best I’ve ever seen. It doesn’t remotely feel like today’s MMOs. It’s all about the action."
Could he be insinuating that LA/LEC made them ruin the game....
Message Edited by MyHandleWasTaken on 08-03-200610:49 AM
I find it very odd that he would say only DC is ok to work with what about LA?? just reading between the lines but looks like he cant work with them as easy as DC..
