Pday wrote: has anyone noticed that about 4 months after the CU we are pretty much back at the exact same place we were right before it was implemented?
No, we're not. Now you cannot play and interact with content without being CL80. So, essentially all the problems from before are still there, with a twist, and now we've been provided further fifth-class citizenship to anyone that doesn't have all combat in their template.
The CL system did nothing to add to SWG. The CU, in general, did nothing to help that couldn't have been done by simply adjusting the old system. The CU Alpha never existed to the players invited into it, and continues to only be an exercise in placing the vocal part of the playerbase into a false NDA wherein SOE essentially did nothing they promised, promoted or alluded to the testers.
Still wanna see those standards.
Fivo Asia
I thought we were still in the CU Alpha?!
Oh, wait, no we are still in SWG Beta....my bad, I forgot. I've never paid a monthly fee for a Beta test before so the experience is sorta new to me....sorry.
/endsarcasm
Well, the CU was a step in the right direction, though I hated what it did to my role and experience (Doctor crafter/support, destroying it,) I found that it was an improvement overall. So good work on design, but still poor work on SWG project management, because as these chaps say, it didn't do anything for the game of SWG. It was a profession rebalance, and did nothing for combat game experiences, GCW, or otherwise changed the way we enjoy a game - it was all under the hood, and thanks for fixing the vehicle under the hood, but there's still no road or track to enjoy the ride on.
Well, it is kind of rude and dense to think that everything could be fixed and added in one fell swoop.
The game was rotting at the core. So they went in, and built a new foundation, and now are slowly renovating the game from the inside-out.
There are enough positives from the CU on to see that things are going in the right direction; slowly, but at least they are getting there, and taking their time to make sure something is done RIGHT, rather than rush it out broken, which is something none of the devs previous to this group ever bothered to do.
Pday wrote: has anyone noticed that about 4 months after the CU we are pretty much back at the exact same place we were right before it was implemented?
No, we're not. Now you cannot play and interact with content without being CL80. So, essentially all the problems from before are still there, with a twist, and now we've been provided further fifth-class citizenship to anyone that doesn't have all combat in their template.
The CL system did nothing to add to SWG. The CU, in general, did nothing to help that couldn't have been done by simply adjusting the old system. The CU Alpha never existed to the players invited into it, and continues to only be an exercise in placing the vocal part of the playerbase into a false NDA wherein SOE essentially did nothing they promised, promoted or alluded to the testers.
Still wanna see those standards.
Fivo Asia
I thought we were still in the CU Alpha?!
Oh, wait, no we are still in SWG Beta....my bad, I forgot. I've never paid a monthly fee for a Beta test before so the experience is sorta new to me....sorry.
/endsarcasm
Well, the CU was a step in the right direction, though I hated what it did to my role and experience (Doctor crafter/support, destroying it,) I found that it was an improvement overall. So good work on design, but still poor work on SWG project management, because as these chaps say, it didn't do anything for the game of SWG. It was a profession rebalance, and did nothing for combat game experiences, GCW, or otherwise changed the way we enjoy a game - it was all under the hood, and thanks for fixing the vehicle under the hood, but there's still no road or track to enjoy the ride on.
I've agreed with alot of what you stated in this thread but I will have to disagree with you on this. However the CU is subjective to each player. So even though I feel it was a definite bad move on SOE's part and IMO a game killer, that might not be the same feeling of others.
It was honestly painful for me to read through this thread. Not because I disagree, or dont think there are valid points. Rather because it stirred up memories of all the misguidance, lies, and lack of value of the players opinions SOE has delivered to us since launch. I'm glad that there is a new communtiy relations posistion, however if it is not a 2 way street of open and honest communication with the dev team, and actions to follow through , it will prove fruitless and frustrating. Much like the correspondent posistions in the crafting community. There is a long history of customer disservice with this game. At launch , we all accepted the bugs, it was a new game after all. We started to raise an eyebrow and say hmmmm, when minor items and abilities were being introduced to the game before any of these bugs were being fixed. The community started to be a little more vocal when player bases came into play and all the gcw breaking bugs that were introduced with them. Still no fixes for some of the very original bugs, then we had more bugs added with minor content. By this point, people started figuring out which templates worked best and we started to see the FOTM temps coming out. This started a series of profession nerfs. CH is probably the first. Then commando,then CM, then BH...etc etc. The question with these was not whether or not the profession was unbalanced, but how soe went about it. There was no compensation for the people that spent weeks and months acquiring these professions , to have them suddenly quite different, and substantially weaker then when they earned them. There was no communication. SOE simply took away abilities that these players professions had earned.They changed the rules mid flight and it wasted a lot of peoples times and turned their in game plans upside down. This started some serious resentment in the game. SOE was not fixing their coding mistakes and bugs, were not communicating any definitive information about them being fixed, and were taking away the viability of players earned professions. This did not help balance the game, it just caused new FOTM temps to appear (tkm/doc was popular). It seemed the more SOE nerfed profs, the more unbalnced the game got, but there were promises of a combat balance(around pub10 i believe). This gave players hope, they were going to do a serious overhaul on damge done and defneses to balnce out combat professions. We all looked forward to having a larger variety of players in different profs because they would all be viable. The combat balance was post poned, and post poned and post poned again. We were left in the dark. They anounce JTL, still no combat balance. Once again SOE ignoring the player feedback, not fixing old problems, and continuing on with their own private agenda. Then they role out the TEF nerf, because a handful cried about it. This destroyed any emmersive feel in the GCW. The reason was that no one should be forced to pvp...no one had been forced. it was always your choice to get a tef. And this risk made the gcw emmersive and alive. But soe felt it was forcing a type of playstyle, and they didnt want that. It had not forced anything. The combat balance was then anounced it would be on test center. And OMG, what a mess. Players groaned in agony over it, the bugs were endless, the changes were not even close to a balance of combat, but rather an entire game overhaul....that didnt work. Customers were extremely vocal, saying we have waited this long we will wait longer but for the love of god scrap this mess. But once again SOE had their own private agenda with rotw. They needed this mess to work for ROTW to be released with the movie. SO the mess went live.Not only was it not what most wanted but it forced grouping(I thought they didnt want to force a playstyle..ie TEF nerf) We lost a ton of players and pissed off the customer base to the point where the president of SOE made his first and only post. But still the players/customers were ignored. They destroyed things the players liked about the game, added things the players didnt want, broke the few professions that did work(ie crafting), and it didnt balance anything. There are just as many FOTM temps now as before, combat is still unbalanced, crafting is now a dumbed down bug ridden mess, the GCW is almost non existent. PVP is a near jedi only game, combat takes less thought and is not as fun, the player base shrinks, and many old bugs and problems still exist. Now today, there are more problems than ever, and the game is very broken.....so SOE announces another expansion. Do you see the cycle here. New game has bugs, add 4 bugs fix 2, add 4 bugs fix 2, players complain, add expansion to attract bew players, add 4 bugs fix 2, players complain add irrelevant quest or item, add 4 bugs fix 2,players complain, add expansion, add 4 bugs fix 2....repeat that cycle over and over, you will always have more bugs than fixes, the player base is ignored and expansions are released to attract new players to replace the old ones who quit. Their focus is not on making a better game or retaining customers, its on replacing customers, we are a disposable resource. So I am afraid that after 2 years of players voicing their opinions, suggeestions and feedback to be ignored, misguided and slapped in the face with so many things. That it will take a lot more than a new type of correspondent to fix them. I a a bit pessimistic, if the devs wouldnt listen to the forum correspondents why will they listen to this new posisition. The only thing to save this game is immediate action taken based soley on the majority of player feedback Man that was a long rant ..hehe....if you made it this far congratulations...have a cookie
Egoe & Iid Lightwaver zxzxPotius Mori THC Quam Foedar zxzx ~*~*~*~*~*~*~BattleWear~*~*~*~*~*~*~ 3N Main, Brenn, Naboo (12 points of Armorsmith Mastery,R.I.S. certified)
Not to minimize the many issues brought up in the thread, but I wanted to point out to those still reading here that the In Concept/In Dev pages are updated with current information, and discussions are now proceeding regarding that info on the In Dev and In Concept forums.
Obviously, doing it once still isn't a habit, and we'll continue to work to make it an everyday part of the SWG update cycle.
-Raph Koster Chief Creative Officer, Sony Online Entertainment
Not to minimize the many issues brought up in the thread, but I wanted to point out to those still reading here that the In Concept/In Dev pages are updated with current information, and discussions are now proceeding regarding that info on the In Dev and In Concept forums.
Obviously, doing it once still isn't a habit, and we'll continue to work to make it an everyday part of the SWG update cycle.
You know Holo, the one thing that makes it feel like we are being listened to is that every now and then a Dev like Helios or DarthPlatypus show up to say something. I know those guys are busy, but man they sure do good work and we like to hear from them too!
Captain Trevick Cloudwalker of the YT-1300 "Corellia Star"
If you like my ideas, you would probably like the others too! Please support me!
Not to minimize the many issues brought up in the thread, but I wanted to point out to those still reading here that the In Concept/In Dev pages are updated with current information, and discussions are now proceeding regarding that info on the In Dev and In Concept forums.
Obviously, doing it once still isn't a habit, and we'll continue to work to make it an everyday part of the SWG update cycle.
Amen Mr. Koster. (Why I'm calling you Mister when we are probably from the same generation is beyond me) We saw a sudden surge of communication hit us about 6-8 weeks after the CU. This was after long bouts of utter silence from any red name who does post on the forum. Issues continue to mount to this day, and we have still seen this drop in communication.
Today is something "new" in the way it was introduced, but myself, and so many others like me...you know, customers...are braced for this being a pie crust promise. We would love to believe you, and others like you, but doubt is oh so much easier when it comes to the level of communication from anyone SOE.
Not to minimize the many issues brought up in the thread, but I wanted to point out to those still reading here that the In Concept/In Dev pages are updated with current information, and discussions are now proceeding regarding that info on the In Dev and In Concept forums.
Obviously, doing it once still isn't a habit, and we'll continue to work to make it an everyday part of the SWG update cycle.
this is unprecidented, I am, quite frankly amazed...and for once...rendered speechless....keep it coming....this is what we've been asking/fighting for all along.......WOW!!!
Not to minimize the many issues brought up in the thread, but I wanted to point out to those still reading here that the In Concept/In Dev pages are updated with current information, and discussions are now proceeding regarding that info on the In Dev and In Concept forums.
Obviously, doing it once still isn't a habit, and we'll continue to work to make it an everyday part of the SWG update cycle.
One thing that would be very reassuring is to see where the development team is at on the still ever-present bugs with the four month old expansion Rage of the Wookiees.
It is frustrating to be on the cusp of another expansion (the third with no new content for Image Designers) and see that the bugs from the previous one are still not fixed. Furthermore, the only Customer Service response we are given before premature ticket closing is "The Developers have not given Customer Service tools to affect RotW content or quests. Please keep your eyes on the forums for more information."
We don't get more information about that, though. We get, "Look for the new expansion coming soon!" It's higher-priced than the last one, doesn't contain a new space zone, and doesn't even need to be distributed in boxes. Why the higher price? Is it going to be bug-free? I doubt it, considering it will have a maximum of 5 weeks beta time, if you start beta on Monday.
Consideration of the players' desires for a consistent, quality-assured product is much obliged in a business where stability is one of the top concerns of the entire player base. We can not enjoy your game if we can not play it.
ﾚｲﾗﾆ ｷﾙ'ﾘｱ Who decided every addition to SWG should be a rutabaga?
Not to minimize the many issues brought up in the thread, but I wanted to point out to those still reading here that the In Concept/In Dev pages are updated with current information, and discussions are now proceeding regarding that info on the In Dev and In Concept forums.
Obviously, doing it once still isn't a habit, and we'll continue to work to make it an everyday part of the SWG update cycle.
Not to minimize the many issues brought up in the thread, but I wanted to point out to those still reading here that the In Concept/In Dev pages are updated with current information, and discussions are now proceeding regarding that info on the In Dev and In Concept forums.
Obviously, doing it once still isn't a habit, and we'll continue to work to make it an everyday part of the SWG update cycle.
Not to minimize the many issues brought up in the thread, but I wanted to point out to those still reading here that the In Concept/In Dev pages are updated with current information, and discussions are now proceeding regarding that info on the In Dev and In Concept forums.
Obviously, doing it once still isn't a habit, and we'll continue to work to make it an everyday part of the SWG update cycle.
It seems like you (accidently) showing up here, has shaken some things up. It's starting to look better now .
In reading the responses thus far, I want to make one thing clear.
We're very aware that the proof is in the pudding. You need action, not words. Reiterating promises is pointless. But I will be checking back every few days to see how it's going.
Remember that all the communication in the world won't help matters if it isn't a two way street. I can count all the players who aren't sick to death of nerfs on the fingers of one foot. This game has been a two year nerf festival. And yet after the Grandmother of all Nerfs (the CU -- combat upchuck), we still have a continual stream of nerfs and a combat game that's as slow as trying to wade through a pool of treacle.
ZionHalcyon wrote: Well, it is kind of rude and dense to think that everything could be fixed and added in one fell swoop.
The only thing rude and dense is your approach to communicating. Given your youthfulness, that is to be expected, but not necessarily excused. Leave the debate to the grown-ups, or do us a favor and raise the bar on your communication skills. If you're of a working age, at least, they have courses, seminars, and programs on communication skills, interpersonal skills, and personal impact. That will help with communication style, but that aside, reasoning and analytical skills only come from ability and experience combined, I'm afraid.
My comments in this thread take issue with the SWG project management, which existed prior to the CU, and continues after; there is no single fell swoop. They also take issue with SOE communications and customer services, and are not addressed at individuals on a personal level, but instead to training, qualifications, and behavior on a service level.
) We saw a sudden surge of communication hit us about 6-8 weeks after the CU. This was after long bouts of utter silence from any red name who does post on the forum. Issues continue to mount to this day, and we have still seen this drop in communication. 
