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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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Laeri
Wing Commander
Posts: 720
Registered: 07-18-2003


Laeri

Reply 16 of 38

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Actually, they could do just what is suggested, then apply that "random number" to select a pre-defined pattern in a lookup table.  So nope, you haven't disproved patterns.  Even though I've pretty much given up on the idea of finding the pattern or patterns to unlock, doesn't mean anyone has disproved them.

Oh, and by the way, take a look at my professions.  I see a pattern there, do you?  I suspect that my last two professions (1 holo, 1 opener) will be Smuggler and Architect.  That's based on 3 data points.  Guess I'll just have to wait until I grind out BE next week (owie, my wrist) to see if I'm close. 

Laeri Tor'Zon
15 Masteries (in order): Marksman, Scout, MCH, Pistoleer, TKA, Fencer(H1), Medic, Combat Medic(H2), Bio-Engineer(H3), Pikeman(H4), Brawler, Entertainer, Dancer, Image Designer, Artisan,
(Wrong on two possible pattern guesses for myself so far).
Pre-guessing my opener: Swordsman or Weaponsmith.
01-05-2004 03:49 PM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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dmax999
SWG Chief Petty Officer
Posts: 210
Registered: 09-07-2003


dmax999

Reply 17 of 38

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No there is a different reason for those professions appearing.

What % of players have mastered marksman since the beginning?

What % have mastered chef or pikeman?

The holo will never tell you a profession you mastered.  Hence all the unused professions are coming up the most and almost no one has gotten marksman.

Because of this you cannot figure out a pattern based on first, second, ... holo unless you get 4 to tell you something.  Your first or second or third may be finished before you use your first holocron.  Your second doesn't magically become your first in the pattern, if there is one.  You just never know what your first one is.

 

01-05-2004 03:57 PM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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Seasonsin
Wing Commander
Posts: 458
Registered: 08-18-2003


Seasonsin
PA: Secret Krayt Society (SKS)
Server: Bria

Reply 18 of 38

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lol.. this is not 'Vash Theory'.   This has been proposed over and over by many different people.  Including me, about 2 months ago. 

Safe Travels! -Seas
01-05-2004 05:15 PM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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Vashner
Jedi
Posts: 11627
Registered: 06-26-2003


Vashner

Reply 19 of 38

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Seasonsin wrote:
lol.. this is not 'Vash Theory'.   This has been proposed over and over by many different people.  Including me, about 2 months ago. 


2 months ago? I posted about it being random well over 6 months ago noob.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------
01-05-2004 08:30 PM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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_Anakin_Skywalker_
SWG Lieutenant
Posts: 281
Registered: 06-29-2003



Reply 20 of 38

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Nothing is random.

 

--
"Remember, remember, the fifth of November."
01-05-2004 08:52 PM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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the_stampede
Jedi
Posts: 1451
Registered: 08-04-2003


the_stampede
PA: PFOR
Server: Tarquinas

Reply 21 of 38

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LMAO-what in the hell is MySQL?!?!?

Charisi
Jedi Padawan
01-05-2004 09:04 PM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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DugDu
SWG Petty Officer
Posts: 40
Registered: 11-13-2003


DugDu

Reply 22 of 38

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My first holo said Marksman, which I was only halfway through at the time.
01-07-2004 06:40 AM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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lund0529
Jedi
Posts: 2004
Registered: 06-26-2003


lund0529
PA: Defenders of the Republic
Server: Bria

Reply 23 of 38

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On computer randomness... true, it will never produce a truly random set of numbers.  Take the following example.

A leaf falls from a tree.  Given the shape of the leaf, it's weight, the height of the tree, the composition of the air, the air pressure, the friction, the strength of gravity, and all the other variables, you can predict exactly where that leaf will land every time.

The problem is, that the "random" computer number, although not actually random, could be based on any number of variables, none of which we know.

For all we know, the server is running Pi, and takes each set of two numbers as a % of 100, multiplies by 32, and rounds off to find a profession number.  Although there is a pattern, you have no idea where you lie, and aren't likely to figure it out.

When I don't have a random function available to me in programming, I often will take the sine or cosine of a number like the primary key of a database table.  I get numbers anywhere from -1 to 1, and can normalize that set to any range I like.  Then sort, and I get an order that looks random to end users.  It isn't, but from the end user perspective, and not knowing what they have as an ID, or what I used, or what all the other people have, they are very unlikely to find a pattern in it.

That would be a very simple way to appear random.  With a few more functions, you could make it infinately more complex.

Point is, no, it's not really random, but without a lot more information, and some luck, you aren't going to be able to figure it out.  That is, of course, assuming the "random" theory is correct...

01-07-2004 07:03 AM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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Berratus
SWG Commander
Posts: 408
Registered: 07-06-2003


Berratus

Reply 24 of 38

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SELECT holo_profession FROM user_holo_professions WHERE forum_user_id = 'JoNakU' AND holo_profession_state != "complete";

1 rows returned:

holo_profession
--------------------
Bounty Hunter





Hmmm - not completely correct. For those that have completed 1 (or no) holo-specified professions multiple rows would be returned
01-07-2004 08:01 AM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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AlmiBoawou
Jedi
Posts: 1512
Registered: 07-29-2003


AlmiBoawou
PA: Rise of Syn
Server: Corbantis

Reply 25 of 38

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No way man, it's totally a microsoft access database.
01-07-2004 08:18 AM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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Kartae
Leader
Posts: 1
Registered: 12-31-2003



Reply 26 of 38

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Lund0529 does provide a reasonable explanation of computer random numbers.  In beginning programming classes the function often used is random(-timer) this means that the current timer tick is used as a "seed" in a random number table.  Yes the table is actually a pseudorandom number table but as players of this game we have no way to discern the numbers in the table being used so to us everything appears as random.   

 I am still on the first holo(Weaponsmith) but  my feeling about choosing the profession when a holo goes silent is that the best way would be using a  random number.  You list all the professions you havent mastered in any order you choose(really it doesn't matter) and then assign a number from 1 to the total number of remaining professions.  Then you "roll" a die of the number of sides there are professions and find the result in your list and master it.  This takes your personal predjudices about any proffessions out of the equation.

 

Kartae Master Merchant Master Artisan Bria

Zyra working master weaponsmith for holo, I am using a newer character on a second account to do the holos. She had no mastered professions when she started.

 

01-07-2004 08:25 AM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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TheAbjurer
SWG Chief Petty Officer
Posts: 190
Registered: 09-12-2003


TheAbjurer

Reply 27 of 38

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Since we're now on programming stuff by talking about pseudo-random numbers, has anyone put forth a theory involving traversing a graph? This is another very common thing in programming. Has anyone put forth a theory that involves each profession as a node in a graph or a matrix or something similar?

Entoro Lapis
01-07-2004 08:29 AM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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Rissen
Jedi
Posts: 818
Registered: 08-19-2003


Rissen
PA: FELON - Mature GCW players
Server: Bloodfin

Reply 28 of 38

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WickedAsh wrote:

Don't mean to be a party pooper here but once again, there is no such thing as totally random in programming. You may have a vast and complex method of generating an end result, but that end result has a starting point and ending point.


however it is close enough to random to render discerning the generated sequence nearly impossible with out both the parameters and the formula for converting the parameters.  So in essence while not total random making pattern guessing equivalent to the door to door hair tonic salesman actually having a viable product.


For example if you were to choose numbers corresponding to creation of a toon, as has been verified by jedi deleting their main and then their jedi and having their fs unlock taken away, you could base this end result on any number of factors involved in creator creation. Things like Station name, Toon name, starting race, starting planet, starting city, starting profession etc etc. As I am sure you can see there is quite alot of things you could use as a begining point. Personally I think the professions are based on a combination of things, like starting planet/city, station name and toon name.

I can not recall the post exactly but there is a post somewhere wherein the devs confirmed your begining city has something to do with it. Which is one of the reasons your datapad has a wp to your starting city, this serves as a place holder in your db record from which to keep track of some of the things you need to do.


actually I thought they stated that deleting your character main or jedi would still keep the slot...would love to see the post where someone disproved it but a risky venture obviously.


Does this help the discussion, no not really.


          /agree

FELON
NOW RECRUITING IMPERIALS AND NEUTRALS ON BLOODFIN
SPACE, GCW, PvP, PvE, DWB runs
w00t Radio
01-07-2004 08:41 AM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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MajiQ
SWG Chief Petty Officer
Posts: 333
Registered: 06-27-2003


MajiQ

Reply 29 of 38

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you are all wrong.

its not anywhere close to random.   its all based off the image design FCSS theory.

 

when character is created, the image design selections the user made (or the first random ones picked by the computer) are used in a complicated and boring calculation that determines which professions you will need to master.

 

and then on top of that

combine that calculation with species selection and starting profession and starting location and then play for a few months and when the Dev's feel the need to let another Jedi into the system they open up their database and select the next winner in the Jedi Lottery system.

Dev Hank -  woooo, hey Jim look at this guy!!  he still has his original melon from character creation.
Dev Jim- HaHa, thats cool.  make him the next Jedi.
Dev Hank- Ok **Hank changes flag setting in DB**

3 hours later----  Lucky Smo on some unexpecting server logs in  **POOF**  you have now unlocked your Jedi slot  WOOHOO!!!!!

 

Ohak - Bria
Master RifleLizard
Ranger
01-07-2004 09:01 AM  

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Re: Forget patterns - This is how FSCS is unlocked (Vash Theory)
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Quadork
Jedi
Posts: 5296
Registered: 06-28-2003


Quadork
PA: KoA
Server: Bria

Reply 30 of 38

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Vashner wrote:


Seasonsin wrote:
lol.. this is not 'Vash Theory'.   This has been proposed over and over by many different people.  Including me, about 2 months ago. 


2 months ago? I posted about it being random well over 6 months ago noob.

 

 




 

The game came out on 6/26/03.   So you posted on it back then?  Eh, n00b?

N PercH N
KoA: We're so uber that people take out restraining orders on us!
01-07-2004 09:10 AM  

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