If you had just left it alone ther would have been no reason to make it go deeper now would there and as for that check your PM's Smed I left you a chalange, give me a reason I should bring my acutal account back to life. Why 2 months between pubs at this rate the profs will get deeper sometime around 2008 or maybe 2009 sorry but if thats as fast as we can then you need to hire more people. Oh wait less subs means less employees so I guess you and the current subscribers are screwed then eh.
OK, I'm done with my gripe now so I'll be headed back to DDO for some "FUN" game play.
Any chance you could put in a "good" word for me, in the Galatic Senate Program?
Message Edited by Altyrell on 03-24-200609:57 AM
Secret Poject? Where do people come up with this stuff. ALL developers on SWG are focused on the publish plan you saw. We were in the preliminary planning/design stages of a design for an expansion pack a few months back. When we saw how much work the live game needed and the reaction from both the community and the focus groups we dropped those plans. We can worry about that later.
Smed
Simple. Remember the NGE? Yeah you know, the NGE, the thing that completely changed the game for the worst and was sprung on us with two weeks notice? Yeah, that secret project. You've given us all the reasons in the world to question EVERYTHING you do, every staff change, every comment we have to take with a mound of salt.
Any reply Smed? You seem to think it odd that we question everything you say and jump on every rumor. The above quote answers why we do that.
Please enlighten me as to WHY you think anyone with more than 3 or 4 years of experience in Networking or Programming wouldn't instinctively know SQL inside and out?
Oh, and Smed. I'm getting the feeling you are cherry-picking posts. I'd very much appreciate a response to mine.
"I am a disturbance in the force..." Aviatrix, Master Bounty Huntress
"Oh, No! I've been shot!" AVX, Master Droid Tinkerer - AVX Industries Loot vendor located at: 4892 2251 (Obsidian Point, Rori.) Droid vendors located at: 5132 1745 (95m SE from Obsidian Point Shuttleport) Stocking Combat, Entertainer, Crafter, Astromech and BH Droids. Yes, I make Mando Helms and Jetpacks.
The truth is the community morale won't improve until the game does. Communication can't fix this. Improvements to the game can. The fact is our communication has improved.. people don't neccessarily like the message is all. I get that. So do our community folks. My preference is that all the posts in the gameplay forum are discussing gameplay balance.. and in-game issues.. but they won't until we get the game to a baseline fun level. We're not there yet. We know that. We're working to fix it. There is no other answer.
Smed
Wow. An offical representative saying the game is hurting. This does give me hope. Not much. But some. We have seen in the past that what is said may not come to pass. Be aware Smed, the community will hold you to the above statement.
The SWG community has been voting with it's feet since the NGE came about. Either we end up being right about our ability to turn the ship around and make a game that's BETTER than it was before, or we were wrong and we fail. Either way we were losing subs before the NGE and believe it or not, we are losing them at a slower rate than before. I'm not going to pretend we didn't lose a bunch of subs from this. We did. And I don't think the game is where it needs to be yet to aquire new subs. But it's getting there with each and every publish.
At the end of the day there are a lot of people in this community that wonder why we did this? Why did we "deliberately" try and piss people off. Obviously that wasn't our intent. This is a business and we needed to improve the results of the business. Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one. One thing is certain. We made a mistake with how we presented it to the community, and for that I'm sorry. I still think it was a needed thing though. It's not as simple as "you should have just fixed the things we were complaining about". That doesn't address the very real fact that what we had was a hardcore game that wasn't going to attract the mass audience that the Star Wars IP brings to the table.
Smed
We are all here to help this game improve a complete system change was not needed. Changing crafting, yes the starter kit, yes adding quest based system, yes but not a complete system change.
Message Edited by RKO on 03-24-200609:47 AM
I respectfully disagree with your position on this. The profession system had fundemental flaws that couldn't be corrected and still be able to both balance the game and add meaningful content that made each profession really matter and be differentiated from the others. Was crafting absolutely the most amazing part of the game? Probably IMO. Can it still be a major part of the game? Hell yes.. and it will be. BUT that needs to be balanced with the fact that adventuring and killing things needed to have meaningful rewards as well to reach a more mainstream audience. I really hope you can see this point even if you don't agree with it.
Smed
can you elaborate on this more, i dont understand what about the old profession system you found to be flawed. to me it just looked liek you wanted to simplify it. honestly smed i know your sticking with your guns but we are all telling you that it was a bad idea to simply the profession diversity. if your gonna stick by it, its on you but we are telling you. noone that played the old versions like this profession system more then the old. the old one was a better system. im not saying bring the whole thing back, but i just hope you guys have a positive compromise coming soon.
Sure - I'll elaborate.
What exactly was the difference between most of the combat professions? There really wasn't one unfortunately. Adding meaningful content for over 30 professions just wasn't something we were capable of. We bit off more than we could chew. Also, the fact that a person who had seen the movies won't know what most of those professions were presented a real problem for aquisition.
Smed
There was huge difference between professions
BH- kill Jedi
Jedi- FRS
Smugglers- Slice armor/weapons
Dancer/Musician- Buff mind, Heal BF
Doctor- Buff health rez dead players
Carbineer- medium speed medium damage
Rifleman- Serious Damage slow speed
Pistols- little damage fast speed
Commando- Heavy weapons
Pikeman- polearm melee
teras kasi - mysterious melee fighter unarmed
swords- powerful melee
fencer- great defenses
Combat Medic- bio warfare
Squad Leader- General of the PvP or PvE bonuses
Ranger- superb scout
Creature Handler- fought with pets
Chef- provided foods that increas skills
even the basic professions allowed for knowledge of all classes
ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg _______________________________________________________________ --------This spot for Sale-------- --------Checobacca k Ice-man' -------- ---I came back for the community--- ---Ill leave again when the EMU servers go acive--- _______________________________________________________________ gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg
Seriously, how can you guys think that ripping out the accomplishments and professions of people who invested up to 3 years of thier time, emotions, and energy in this game is acceptable. There are a ton of ex-players that will never come back just for this reason alone.
While I do say, what's done is done, another part of me feels this way. I'd like to quote a couple things from the Vangaurd - Saga of Heroes FAQs. Now, I know they don't have a product shipped, and they don't have the answers... but they do see where things have gone wrong in the past. Lessons learned? They are trying to avoid what has happened to our community. Trying. If you don't want to read it all, I've highlighted some key points. I mean no disrespect by cross-posting this stuff, I just think it's valid to point out what their goals are.
1.6.2.1.3 How important is player interdependence and how does it relate to community development?
Player interdependence is the key to community building.
1.6.4.1 I've heard that Sigil has a number of 'tenets' related to MMOGs... could you share a few?
4. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
(This applies to a great many things, but in general to the recent reactionary trend to respond to traditional MMOG mechanics that have had some problems by completely removing them as opposed to fixing them. Travel is tedious? Remove travel! People are camping and ninja looting and being rotten to each other in a dungeon? Remove the other people! (Instancing). Sigil, rather, is intent on fixing and tweaking traditional MUD/MMOG mechanics that have existed for so long, not throwing them out).
5. The collective long term happiness of the playerbase and therefore the overall health of the game is always right.
(This is in reponse to the assertion that the 'customer is always right'. The assertion is correct, but since players are in a world shared by other players, the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one or the few; likewise, what is good for the game long term takes precedence over the short term, in that it's in both the developers and players interest that the game retain its long term health).
18.1.13 Is there a way to combine the challenge of EverQuest with the fast start of Star Wars: Galaxies?
Indeed there must be; and what's more, there has to be a way to use such a mechanism to also accelerate and make easier those eventual bonds you describe where you are known and therefore welcomed into groups as someone people recognize and appreciate.
One of the grave dangers instancing represents is what's already been seen in games that use it extensively: you come into the game, jump into a mission or some such, group up with people in a very transient way, finish up in 30 minutes, an hour, whatever, and then it's on to something else. You either log off, or do another mission, but the people you just worked together with are irrelevant -- they were just tools to help you finish a temporary goal.
Add a total elimination of any downtime to this equation and you don't even have a chance to really talk with these people outside of 'attack that mob!' and 'help!'.
The result is no one gives a crap who you are nor has any reason to remember you, your name, your contributions, your skills, etc. It's so incredibly anti-community building.
So there has to be a way to improve 'lead times' without destroying the community. There MUST be.
Y i v v i t s
My words of wisdom to the developers: Fix, Improve, Never take away.
Listen to "Star Wars Galaxies with Yivvits and MrBubble"
You must have balls the size of church bells... and I personally think this is EXACTLY what the community needs from someone of your stature. Unedited, straight, non-political answers... I seriously applaud you for this.
Those of you who can't read between the lines of what Smedley is trying to say:
SOE DID NOT *edit* this game up... the changes were forced upon THEM just like us players.
Furthermore - SOE is working its asses off to get its true character back into our gameplay, and give us back what they already knew we loved. He admits the new system is not what it should be, needs improvement etc. That makes it pretty damn apparent that SOE wasn't the mastermind behind this the NGE, etc.
On the other hand, can we blame a company for trying to stretch its demographic and increase revenue? Not if we have any sort of brains...welcome to the real world, and the world of business.
Smedley is right... this game wasn't appealing to the mass audiences the way it should have, and the powers that be decided to take a calculated gamble. This sort of stuff happens all the time.
I think we should try our best to support SOE in what they are trying to do... continue to **edit** (constructively) about what we'd like to see change, and learn how to handle changes that may or may not occur.
It might be better for SOE as a company to sit back and let you all think that LucasArts forced this stuff on us. Guess what, they didn't. We all sat around a table and read the same data.
Smed
Holy smokes...
The honesty today is unreal - Go SMED!
I've said this in interviews btw. I don't like trying to pass the buck. I may say stuff you disagree with, but I don't want to try to imply something that's not true. You may all believe that early on with the NGE we were just "spinning" things. We weren't.. we honestly believed (and still do) that we could make the game better and convince you all that this was the right direction.
Smed
This whole thread is going alot towards that i might add...especially me being one of many disgruntled vets
Denkiri Largo II Kayja Tahiri II Kur'i Draconis Jedi Elder [] Master Officer [] Rebel Medic --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------My fellow Americans, I have not been entirely truthful with you. I did gagoogidy that girl. I gashmoygadied her gaflavity with my googus. And I am sorry. -Glen Quagmire
superchunk00769 wrote: its going to be hard as hell to make the game "better" if no one likes the combat system. Now only lag free computers can do well in pvp, which turned off many people. What is your take on this?
this IS something I think that needs addressing. It also had an interesting side effect that I have to say we didn't think about (well at least not enough anyways) - this combat system got rid of a lot of multi-box players. That sucks.
Virzo wrote: smed I dont understand, with an outcry like this, how do you not see we are upset. Im sorry, but I payed alot of money for the old game, and it changes. Yes you are losing subs, stop lying, We watch the servers slowly lose people. And the new people after level 30 get bored and leave. You dont have a game, its a hang out beta test.
maybe you would be so kind as to point out what I've lied about?
Smed
ok... you said that there wasn't a "Secret Project"... yet Swede said that he and several other were being reassigned to work on a Project, that he couldn't discuss....
Perhaps its a forbidden sandwhich >_> _
MMMMMMMMMMMM Forbidden sandwhich.......
After a little bit of research, I have located his secret project!
00000000000000000000 Andross Xavier 00000000000000000000Rebel Jedi 00000000000000000000 00000000000000000000 'Motoko Kusanagi 00000000000000000000 Master Munitions 00000000000000000000 00000000000000000000Talca-Ra Inasto 00000000000000000000RETIRED 00000000000000000000 00000000000000000000 NTHR - SWG Division President 00000000000000000000 "Got himself a serious case of megalomania, huh?"
Smed, when the NGE came out you wrote an open letter that alluded to guilds having their own Star Destroyers possibly....
I'd like to know, what is the current status or plan for cap ships, considering that there is now no expansion on the horizon. Are they scheduled to be part of free content for the GCW publish? How about combat vehicles like AT-AT's?
Smed, thank you for answer the questions, at least this is honest and straight forward.
I agree that the loss of diversity was a big thing, but let me emphasize to you that also the game lacks interdependence, please take this into consideration as well. We need diversity yes but we also need to depend on each other as well, this is all but gone now.
Let me address your point head on. - SWG never attracted the size audience that the Star Wars license delivered in the first place. One of those reasons was combat wasn't exciting enough. We have done enough research on the people who quit or people that didn't purchase the game to know this is a hard, brutal cold fact. Could we have gone a different direction with the combat? Yes. Could we in the future change this direction? Yes. Do I think we will? No. Why? Because I don't believe that this will be an issue if we solve the other half of the equation - making the professions feel different... and making the content really exciting. If we asked you all to rank Combat vs. the loss of professions, I'm betting the loss of professions will "win" every time... I don't think the new combat style is the main thing that people are bothered by. It's the broad strokes changes to the rest of the game. What we've done is to get the game to a much more basic level that we can build on. I submit to you that if we achieve our other goals, this style of combat won't be an issue. The fact is the data we have suggest that for the people that DO sign up for the game they like the combat. For the people that don't, combat isn't the main issue we're losing them.
Smed
Just a small point here. Games like WoW, are advertised everywhere, I see it in the newspapers, in magazines, on the net. When I first started playing SWG, it wasn't from an ad, it was from another game. Not even an MMO game. That leaves me to believe that you were asking your community to be your advertisers for free instead of actually getting out there and letting the world know you existed. If you had placed some of that extra funding into advertising SWG instead of constantly changing it, you might have had a larger player base, instead of what you have now...which is a lack of trust from your community, and even from the potential new players. You've created a galaxy that is filled with bitter people, and guess who your new players meet and talk to when they first log in? By failing your community, your failing your game, no matter how great it becomes. If we're going to save SWG, you really need to start by at least compromising with your customers. If you just worry about making the game the way YOU want it, then only the ones like YOU will play it. There really does need to be something for everyone. YOU may not want to be Uncle Owen, but maybe someone else does.
Exactly, there are countless SW titles that allow the player to be Luke or Obi-Wan but no other SW title allowed me to have a part of the story, to effect the outcome, to make a contribution, to LIVE and BREATHE the Star Wars I fell in love with 30 years ago. I never dreamt of being Luke or Leia or Han but of being a contemporary of theirs, a hero in my own right not a clone or a pale shadow.
You are effectively turning this rich galaxy into just another console game albiet one played online. You may pull in the casual adolescent player but their attention span is short and they will move on to the next new game that comes on the market. I know - the kids I tutor love it that I am a gamer but they don't stick with any title longer than 6 weeks. They are easily bored as their imaginations are not engaged. SWG used to be engaging. Unfortunately it no longer is.
Cin or do you say Sin~ Master Dancer/Master Bio-Engineer ~
~ Let la lune de miel begin ~
"You know you're loved if you've been *pillow*'ed."
Will any of this fire control on the forums be quenched here, at the SWG Dev Summits(hopefully you will have one in Sunny San Diego) or at the Convention Season coming up, like Comic Con and Wizardworld?
Tyrn Vol - Bria
p.s Please make Atlyrell a galatic senator or least a blue frog decoration for the house.
You are only 3 posts away from trips! You started today with only 22 and got a set of steak knives when you hit 44. Anyone have any ideas for what we should do if he hits 66?
"BZ helps ALL Rebels!" Melvar Anquist, Guildmaster BLINDZEBRA Hunters Guild [http://swg.blindzebra.com] "Who is the more foolish, the fool, or the fool who follows him?" -- Obi-Wan Kenobi Please drop all auction winnings off to any vendor at the BZ Crafter's House /waypoint 3185 -555 Xebec's Demise, Corellia.
Smed, when the NGE came out you wrote an open letter that alluded to guilds having their own Star Destroyers possibly....
I'd like to know, what is the current status or plan for cap ships, considering that there is now no expansion on the horizon. Are they scheduled to be part of free content for the GCW publish? How about combat vehicles like AT-AT's?
Yes guild owned capital ships, that would be awsome.
Smed wrote: ok. Here are my top 5. Keep in mind, this doesn't mean this is the order things are being done.. just my personal ones and what I see being big issues with the community. . . . 4. Entertainers - I realize a lot of people don't like the idea of entertainers being in combat. To a lot of people this IS why they went into entertaining in the first place. I like where we're going with it and want to make sure it's balanced properly.
Smed
First off, thank you for the communication, Smed. It's encouraging to see you making such an effort to address the community in the way you have.
I'm also encouraged to see you mentioning Traders and Entertainers in your own top 5 list of things that need to be done in the game as these two profession areas haven't been getting the attention that they deserve for some time now (since even before the NGE I would say). However, with regard to your comment on Entertainers there are a couple of points I'm concerned about. While you acknowledge the controversy of adding combat skills to entertainer, I'm a little confused whether you meant that when people chose the Entertainer profession they did so to participate in combat or to avoid combat. I assume you mean the latter, but if so and you do realize that people went into the Entertainer profession because they didn't care for combat, then why would you make the decision to add combat to the profession? Now I'm one for choice and possibilities, but some people really like the non-aggro status that Entertainers and Traders have now. Is there some way to allow Entertainers to have a choice of being either combat enabled or non-aggro? If not then is there at least something you can do appease those players who wish to avoid or at least minimize the combat/aggro side of the game - perhaps a non-aggro "special" of some kind (maybe one that disables combat ability while active)?
More importantly, you mention that you are happy with where you are going with the Entertainer profession, but a lot of us players who are Entertainers are unhappy precisely because we *DON'T* know where you are going with the profession, and despite countless pleas for more information, no one is willing or able to share with us any vision for the future of the Entertainer profession. I certainly hope the combat additions of Pub 28 are not the sum total of the future of the profession. Beyond that, however, there is nothing in your stated plans for the next several publishes that even mentions Entertainer. No developers have offered up any focus threads or any in development discussions on future plans for Entertainer either in our own forum or the development forums. Is there anything that you can share with us on where you're going with the Entertainer profession - what we might have to look forward to and possibly any plans for when it might be released? We would greatly appreciate it.