The truth is the community morale won't improve until the game does. Communication can't fix this. Improvements to the game can. The fact is our communication has improved.. people don't neccessarily like the message is all. I get that. So do our community folks. My preference is that all the posts in the gameplay forum are discussing gameplay balance.. and in-game issues.. but they won't until we get the game to a baseline fun level. We're not there yet. We know that. We're working to fix it. There is no other answer.
Smed
Wow. An offical representative saying the game is hurting. This does give me hope. Not much. But some. We have seen in the past that what is said may not come to pass. Be aware Smed, the community will hold you to the above statement.
The SWG community has been voting with it's feet since the NGE came about. Either we end up being right about our ability to turn the ship around and make a game that's BETTER than it was before, or we were wrong and we fail. Either way we were losing subs before the NGE and believe it or not, we are losing them at a slower rate than before. I'm not going to pretend we didn't lose a bunch of subs from this. We did. And I don't think the game is where it needs to be yet to aquire new subs. But it's getting there with each and every publish.
At the end of the day there are a lot of people in this community that wonder why we did this? Why did we "deliberately" try and piss people off. Obviously that wasn't our intent. This is a business and we needed to improve the results of the business. Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one. One thing is certain. We made a mistake with how we presented it to the community, and for that I'm sorry. I still think it was a needed thing though. It's not as simple as "you should have just fixed the things we were complaining about". That doesn't address the very real fact that what we had was a hardcore game that wasn't going to attract the mass audience that the Star Wars IP brings to the table.
Smed
Mr Smedley -
With all due respet, you have ALREADY failed. One only needs walk through any starport in the game to realize this. What you call "rhetoric" is the community outcry of seeing an exemplary MMO essentially scrapped and replaced with a pale imitation. This isnt "counterstrike" - there's a reason that 99% of MMO's use "turn based combat" - its because it makes the game accessible to people of all ages, people who dont have lightning reflexes or flat out dont enjoy the "FPS" style of play.
The old interface system was INTUITIVE - this one is not - i shouldnt have to press 3 keys to open a radial menu on an inventory item in my back pack.
Your general message seems to be "yes, we hear you. We know you dont like what we are doing and we are going to continue with it anyway so shut up" we wont. Period.
I understand completely - you did the math under the CU and pre-cu systems and saw that the game was losing more players than it was taking in - and you decided that you needed a major change to bring in new players. While thats a well thought out plan, the implementation leaves MUCH to be desired. If your people can't market Star Wars - then perhaps they shouldn't be in marketing. This is a built in audience. You fail to realize that MOST Star Wars fans are 30 and older we saw the originals in the theatre the FIRST time. Yet you are marketing to the wrong age group. The last 3 movies didnt have anywhere near the cultural impact the first three did.
Dont buy it? Look at the servers! Where once you could stroll through Cnet and see 20 or 30 players - you dont see ANY.
Its time for change. again. If you cannt go back, then go forward and give us a workable turn based combat system. I lead a guild that boasts 400+ members - of which maybe 10 are left - the significant majority of whom left because of these changes. and please- be aware - its not only HOW you presented the NGE - its WHAT you presented that casued the upraor. If you had rolled out a more workable system, a more accessible one - you would not be where you are now.
Please, admit that you have to "make the game better" - by doing what the commuinty wants.
Earlier in this thread you "called out" one of the other posters. Well I;m calling you out. My challenge is - email EVERY user who EVER had a SWG account with a poll - which of the three combat systems do they prefer? GO from there. It may not bring a flood of new players into the game but you would certainly get back a loot of what you lost. PLEASE - do this - or .. resign. Really. Its time.
Apologies in advance - not intended as a flame or troll - just one man stating his opinion.
Let me address your point head on. - SWG never attracted the size audience that the Star Wars license delivered in the first place. One of those reasons was combat wasn't exciting enough. We have done enough research on the people who quit or people that didn't purchase the game to know this is a hard, brutal cold fact. Could we have gone a different direction with the combat? Yes. Could we in the future change this direction? Yes. Do I think we will? No. Why? Because I don't believe that this will be an issue if we solve the other half of the equation - making the professions feel different... and making the content really exciting. If we asked you all to rank Combat vs. the loss of professions, I'm betting the loss of professions will "win" every time... I don't think the new combat style is the main thing that people are bothered by. It's the broad strokes changes to the rest of the game. What we've done is to get the game to a much more basic level that we can build on. I submit to you that if we achieve our other goals, this style of combat won't be an issue. The fact is the data we have suggest that for the people that DO sign up for the game they like the combat. For the people that don't, combat isn't the main issue we're losing them.
Smed
exciting enough? I had so much fun dueling guildmate and other players, trying to find that prefect build to go up against Melee and Range. U had to think when it came to combat, Having a medic on your team was a must, U needed a tank, U needed a Range. The Spin Groups, I met so many people by getting into random spin groups, u would spend hours killing Bols and Pickets getting to know people and by the end of the night it seemed u all where best friends. Now....U can Solo any, U do not need any help and no reason to team up with anyone. Do u understand that the A.I for this game has to be upgraded, I think u all forgot about the A.I with this NGE. H.K should not be soloable
I must say you did make me laugh a few times Smed.
Everyone and their mother is on this thread...nice
I read all 45 pages and did nt see you respond to the questions about pub. 28. Any idea on a timeline? Will it be live by the end of April?? If you have a full dev team on this game still and they are no longer working on anything but publishes and cutting out all those professions was supposed to make things easier for the devs why is it taking so long? We need content added faster! Simple as that. We are beta testing your game still, its ridiculous. Nothing personal, just frustrated...
Maskis Elder Bounty Hunter Nabyl Elder Architect Vendors at -844 -3035 Imperia Tiberious, Lok
Let me address your point head on. - SWG never attracted the size audience that the Star Wars license delivered in the first place. One of those reasons was combat wasn't exciting enough. We have done enough research on the people who quit or people that didn't purchase the game to know this is a hard, brutal cold fact. Could we have gone a different direction with the combat? Yes. Could we in the future change this direction? Yes. Do I think we will? No. Why? Because I don't believe that this will be an issue if we solve the other half of the equation - making the professions feel different... and making the content really exciting. If we asked you all to rank Combat vs. the loss of professions, I'm betting the loss of professions will "win" every time... I don't think the new combat style is the main thing that people are bothered by. It's the broad strokes changes to the rest of the game. What we've done is to get the game to a much more basic level that we can build on. I submit to you that if we achieve our other goals, this style of combat won't be an issue. The fact is the data we have suggest that for the people that DO sign up for the game they like the combat. For the people that don't, combat isn't the main issue we're losing them.
Smed
Just a small point here. Games like WoW, are advertised everywhere, I see it in the newspapers, in magazines, on the net. When I first started playing SWG, it wasn't from an ad, it was from another game. Not even an MMO game. That leaves me to believe that you were asking your community to be your advertisers for free instead of actually getting out there and letting the world know you existed. If you had placed some of that extra funding into advertising SWG instead of constantly changing it, you might have had a larger player base, instead of what you have now...which is a lack of trust from your community, and even from the potential new players. You've created a galaxy that is filled with bitter people, and guess who your new players meet and talk to when they first log in? By failing your community, your failing your game, no matter how great it becomes. If we're going to save SWG, you really need to start by at least compromising with your customers. If you just worry about making the game the way YOU want it, then only the ones like YOU will play it. There really does need to be something for everyone. YOU may not want to be Uncle Owen, but maybe someone else does.
Double click on the Launchpad Icon. Click "My Account". Enter your Password into the "password" field. Click "Manage Subscription". Click "Cancel Subscription". Than click into your window with the SWG Forums. Click "Logout".
Greetings! If you were the only one left on your server would you follow your own solution?
d) What are you going to do when the rumoured SWG emulator hits with none of this NGE rubbish on it and the majority of your playerbase jump ship to move there? THEN will you get rid of this virus you introduced in November? Too little, too late I'm afraid. You have it within your power to fix the game now, to admit it wasn't really in the best interest and get it sorted. I for one will think more of SOE if they do that rather than watch this runaway train smashing thru barrier after barrier.. because the end of the line is drawing ever closer.
What they're going to do is get a judge to order any such SWG emulation shut down faster than you can say "injunction". Such an open and clear-cut violation of copyright law will get the owners and operators of any such game sued and put out of business so fast they won't know what hit them.
I'd bet money that SOE and/or LucasFarts lawyers are already hard at work polishing up their legal sledgehammers for just such an eventuality.
Sorry to burst y'all's bubble on that one.
Good luck with that. The emulators are in different countries. US law does not apply.
ROFL
Ok. Without engaging in the obvious "we'll bust out our lawyers and sue people" rhetoric let me be blunt - if someone can write a SWG server emulator that's any good please apply for a job here because you have to be pretty damn good. You also better be able to know SQL pretty well and have an oracle database and a ton of other important stuff. This emulator stuff is nothing more than a hobby for some really smart people. You don't seriously think we're worried about this do you (and I mean that in a very positive way btw)? I take it as the ultimate compliment. Now, if some genius ever actually pulled it off.. well that would be another matter entirely. In EverQuest a couple of really smart guys made something called ShowEQ which basically showed off a bunch of stuff we didn't intend for players to see. I ended up hiring the key developer of that program. He's a really smart programmer named Roy Eltham. He actually broke our encryption. He's still here. Smed
But john does it not show you how much we love the old game version when there are people out there trying to bring it back.
You will never hear me saying the people that are complaining aren't passionate about wanting things to be like they were before. In fact, if there is one big lesson I've learned from all of this it's how NOT to go about making big changes in a game Trust me I've had enough emails and voicemails to demonstrate that passion.
Virzo wrote: smed I dont understand, with an outcry like this, how do you not see we are upset. Im sorry, but I payed alot of money for the old game, and it changes. Yes you are losing subs, stop lying, We watch the servers slowly lose people. And the new people after level 30 get bored and leave. You dont have a game, its a hang out beta test.
maybe you would be so kind as to point out what I've lied about?
Smed
ok... you said that there wasn't a "Secret Project"... yet Swede said that he and several other were being reassigned to work on a Project, that he couldn't discuss....
Perhaps its a forbidden sandwhich >_> _
00000000000000000000 Andross Xavier 00000000000000000000Rebel Jedi 00000000000000000000 00000000000000000000 'Motoko Kusanagi 00000000000000000000 Master Munitions 00000000000000000000 00000000000000000000Talca-Ra Inasto 00000000000000000000RETIRED 00000000000000000000 00000000000000000000 NTHR - SWG Division President 00000000000000000000 "Got himself a serious case of megalomania, huh?"
Let me address your point head on. - SWG never attracted the size audience that the Star Wars license delivered in the first place. One of those reasons was combat wasn't exciting enough. We have done enough research on the people who quit or people that didn't purchase the game to know this is a hard, brutal cold fact. Could we have gone a different direction with the combat? Yes. Could we in the future change this direction? Yes. Do I think we will? No. Why? Because I don't believe that this will be an issue if we solve the other half of the equation - making the professions feel different... and making the content really exciting. If we asked you all to rank Combat vs. the loss of professions, I'm betting the loss of professions will "win" every time... I don't think the new combat style is the main thing that people are bothered by. It's the broad strokes changes to the rest of the game. What we've done is to get the game to a much more basic level that we can build on. I submit to you that if we achieve our other goals, this style of combat won't be an issue. The fact is the data we have suggest that for the people that DO sign up for the game they like the combat. For the people that don't, combat isn't the main issue we're losing them.
Smed
Just a small point here. Games like WoW, are advertised everywhere, I see it in the newspapers, in magazines, on the net. When I first started playing SWG, it wasn't from an ad, it was from another game. Not even an MMO game. That leaves me to believe that you were asking your community to be your advertisers for free instead of actually getting out there and letting the world know you existed. If you had placed some of that extra funding into advertising SWG instead of constantly changing it, you might have had a larger player base, instead of what you have now...which is a lack of trust from your community, and even from the potential new players. You've created a galaxy that is filled with bitter people, and guess who your new players meet and talk to when they first log in? By failing your community, your failing your game, no matter how great it becomes. If we're going to save SWG, you really need to start by at least compromising with your customers. If you just worry about making the game the way YOU want it, then only the ones like YOU will play it. There really does need to be something for everyone. YOU may not want to be Uncle Owen, but maybe someone else does.
I find it extremely funny that Smed has twice asked for devs to step in and help on this discussion and none have stepped up yet. Personally if i was a red name i would avoid this threed like the plague.
Smed wrote: We can only do our best to lay out the way we plan on doing things based on as much feedback as we can get from the community. If we don't live up to your expectations, we lose customers. All we can do is our best.
Smed
And you can do your best by listening to us.
With that said, here is how the target-lock system could work with the NGE:
Object/Player is locked onto ONLY by placing the cursor/reticule over the target
Target IS automatically lost if:
Hidden from view by a player ability such as: a smoke screen, the act of cloaking/camouflaging
Out of player's longest ability range (e.g. 35m pistol, 50m carbine, 64/74m rifle)
In this case, the targeted player will be unattackable, but still "targeted" (meaning only distance and HAM bar is displayed, no arrow or any indication of direction)
Target-lock can only be regained by replacing the cursor over desired target
Lost INSIDE a player, static, or natural structure (EXCLUDING: Starports/Space ports): a house, guild hall, cantina, cave, dungeon/instance - you get the idea)
Ported out by a shuttle or similar happening
Once the target is locked the reticule/cursor is no longer required to float over target.
Target WILL NOT be lost if:
Kept in view (evidently) or lost, but only by sight, around a structure
Hidden from view by objects such as: rocks, trees, bushes, hills, mountains, tents,
In water (of any shape or form)
On a vehicle/mount
Lost in a starport
If the locked target is already INSIDE a player, natural, or static structure (clarified above) it will not be lost once "OUTSIDE" or at all until an instance as described above occurs.
Message Edited by Madek-Olitherin on 03-24-200603:38 PM
"You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them. Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!" "You were my brother, Anakin. I loved you!" - Obi-Wan Kenobi
Any chance you could put in a "good" word for me, in the Galatic Senate Program?
Message Edited by Altyrell on 03-24-200609:57 AM
Secret Poject? Where do people come up with this stuff. ALL developers on SWG are focused on the publish plan you saw. We were in the preliminary planning/design stages of a design for an expansion pack a few months back. When we saw how much work the live game needed and the reaction from both the community and the focus groups we dropped those plans. We can worry about that later.
Smed
Thank you to those who has reply saying that the whole thing with the "Secret Project" was from Swede... hopefully Smed will comment on the fact that Light has SHINED on the "Secret Project" subject...
(oh & Pres. Smed.... what about 2 - 6... any comments???)
please link to this post you're talking about and I'll try and find out what it refers to.
Virzo wrote: smed I dont understand, with an outcry like this, how do you not see we are upset. Im sorry, but I payed alot of money for the old game, and it changes. Yes you are losing subs, stop lying, We watch the servers slowly lose people. And the new people after level 30 get bored and leave. You dont have a game, its a hang out beta test.
maybe you would be so kind as to point out what I've lied about?
Smed
ok... you said that there wasn't a "Secret Project"... yet Swede said that he and several other were being reassigned to work on a Project, that he couldn't discuss....
Perhaps its a forbidden sandwhich >_> _
MMMMMMMMMMMM Forbidden sandwhich.......
Denkiri Largo II Kayja Tahiri II Kur'i Draconis Jedi Elder [] Master Officer [] Rebel Medic --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------My fellow Americans, I have not been entirely truthful with you. I did gagoogidy that girl. I gashmoygadied her gaflavity with my googus. And I am sorry. -Glen Quagmire
You must have balls the size of church bells... and I personally think this is EXACTLY what the community needs from someone of your stature. Unedited, straight, non-political answers... I seriously applaud you for this.
Those of you who can't read between the lines of what Smedley is trying to say:
SOE DID NOT *edit* this game up... the changes were forced upon THEM just like us players.
Furthermore - SOE is working its asses off to get its true character back into our gameplay, and give us back what they already knew we loved. He admits the new system is not what it should be, needs improvement etc. That makes it pretty damn apparent that SOE wasn't the mastermind behind this the NGE, etc.
On the other hand, can we blame a company for trying to stretch its demographic and increase revenue? Not if we have any sort of brains...welcome to the real world, and the world of business.
Smedley is right... this game wasn't appealing to the mass audiences the way it should have, and the powers that be decided to take a calculated gamble. This sort of stuff happens all the time.
I think we should try our best to support SOE in what they are trying to do... continue to **edit** (constructively) about what we'd like to see change, and learn how to handle changes that may or may not occur.
It might be better for SOE as a company to sit back and let you all think that LucasArts forced this stuff on us. Guess what, they didn't. We all sat around a table and read the same data.
Smed
Holy smokes...
The honesty today is unreal - Go SMED!
I've said this in interviews btw. I don't like trying to pass the buck. I may say stuff you disagree with, but I don't want to try to imply something that's not true. You may all believe that early on with the NGE we were just "spinning" things. We weren't.. we honestly believed (and still do) that we could make the game better and convince you all that this was the right direction.
