What are yout thoughts on a AA system for SWG like what is in EverQuest? It would help by letting people customize their characters and give people who have already reached lvl 90 something to work toward/on.
Ok I have read all these posts and since Smed is reading this I will post my new player concerns for him maybe it will give some ideas on keeping new players like myself playing.
But first let me say I never played PRE NGE but let me say this I have read alot about it and I would't have liked it most likely I bought starwars cause I wanted to be a dark jedi. But from what I understand unless you were an avid PVP person on the old system you did't dare even show your glow stick in public as a jedi for fear of being hunted and killed over and over.
this new system suits me fine I like the FPS/roleplay style this game has shown me it adds excitement and thrill that other games don't.
as for concerns for the new player first and formost
1. to cookie cutter there is no achevement or should I say sense of achevement when every single thing from your wepons to your cloths is given to you. nothing is earned i got my first two lightsabers handed to me my robes etc all i needed was levels. and its not just jedi all the class I have tried are like that comandos have there armor given to them whats the fun in that I want to earn it or find it. not just reach a level and its given to me.
2. armor restrictions why limit what ya can wear I think it would be more cool to see people wearing what ever armor they found to be the best even if its just for looks. I mean a jedi in storm trooper armor would look sweet. < and it is realistic I mean Luke Skywalker work storm trooper armor in episode IV to recue the princess>
3. finding other players to do things like space missions and such is very diffucult I spent 4 hours looking for somebody with a POB who needed a crew and did't find a single one in two weeks I have never seen anyone with a POB in space. Now this may be because I dont' have the expansions and everyone is spending all there time over there or what not but still frustrateing to new players.
4. No low end items armor wepons there is only one low end heavy wep that I found and only cause it wsa given to me when I loged in almost two weeks after i started playing. Why does all the items and equipment hve to be for the 50+ people there should be a way to craft items for the lower levels as well we like shinny new toys to.
5. and last but certianly not least REVAMP the bazzar term for a new player trying to find anything is a very frustrateing process even with couple weeks practice I still end up spending hours looking for 1 item Mostly cause I have to spend most of that time sorting thru 1000's of items I can't use for 50 levels. to find that 1 in 1,000,000,000 that I can use.
Edit
forgot Crafting why do you need to be so max level to craft anything of use and why do you need to be 38 to craft your first gen sabers when one is handed to you at level 30 should you be able to build it if you can use it at that level?
ok that about sums it up hope somebody reads them and takes them to heart or at least looks at them with an open mind.
im really getting tired of having to switch toolbars to change weapons/use excess moves/change cloths/or use buffs/ect..ect
ETA or anytime on 2 tollbars again ???
im gonna bug you till you answer me
Lordsaihorm - Elder Bounty Hunter - Dark mandalorian of Legions End -Dreath- - Nge Jedi - The one who really pisses them off Vendor is located on dantooine at -143 3111 outside the mining outpost
Quick and simple question for you. I apologize if this has been asked already on this thread, it's too hard to review the pages when they're popping up faster than I can read them lol!
*Can we initiate some kind of in-game poll that focuses on customer wishes? You could have it pop up on login, and a quick vote for each subscription. The polls could cover each concern that you see in the forums (bugs, quests, pvp, etc.) and give you DIRECT feedback from the playerbase.
I truly think that if you ran these polls for a month, you'd see what the most popular choices are for the community as a whole. I use similar forms for all of my customers, and I have to tell you that the direct feedback is amazing, and increases our customer satisfaction overall.
Thank you for your time,
Dnolar
Dnolar Xorlaran
Elder Spinner ~ Pre-CU Teras Kasi Master
-SiN-
Tooms Xorlaran ~ Owner/Operator Tooms Mega Mall ~ Architect
The truth is the community morale won't improve until the game does. Communication can't fix this. Improvements to the game can. The fact is our communication has improved.. people don't neccessarily like the message is all. I get that. So do our community folks. My preference is that all the posts in the gameplay forum are discussing gameplay balance.. and in-game issues.. but they won't until we get the game to a baseline fun level. We're not there yet. We know that. We're working to fix it. There is no other answer.
Smed
Wow. An offical representative saying the game is hurting. This does give me hope. Not much. But some. We have seen in the past that what is said may not come to pass. Be aware Smed, the community will hold you to the above statement.
The SWG community has been voting with it's feet since the NGE came about. Either we end up being right about our ability to turn the ship around and make a game that's BETTER than it was before, or we were wrong and we fail. Either way we were losing subs before the NGE and believe it or not, we are losing them at a slower rate than before. I'm not going to pretend we didn't lose a bunch of subs from this. We did. And I don't think the game is where it needs to be yet to aquire new subs. But it's getting there with each and every publish.
At the end of the day there are a lot of people in this community that wonder why we did this? Why did we "deliberately" try and piss people off. Obviously that wasn't our intent. This is a business and we needed to improve the results of the business. Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one. One thing is certain. We made a mistake with how we presented it to the community, and for that I'm sorry. I still think it was a needed thing though. It's not as simple as "you should have just fixed the things we were complaining about". That doesn't address the very real fact that what we had was a hardcore game that wasn't going to attract the mass audience that the Star Wars IP brings to the table.
Smed
OK. I have a question hopefully you can answer?
With everything that has been done by the development team of SWG over the last 3 years, how can you expect anyone to have any faith you will actually get it right this time?
There was nothing wrong with the original combat system when the game first came out, it was inovative and the skill point system and being able to customize your character was like nothing ever seen in an MMORPG, that is what made it great. Your Dev team could not get it balanced, not because it was not possible, but because they did not even try. There were profession issues that were never even touched in the year and a half that that system was in the game. Instead they pandered to the whiners who wanted Jedi, introduced Holocrons and planted the seeds of the mess that would follow.
Then came the CURB. That system was simplified, generic, but still worked. Because it was the same system that every other MMORPG was using. There was still ability to customize your character which was good, and combat was somewhat balanced, except for one HUGE thing. the hundreds and hundreds of Jedi that were still the Alpha class in the game.
Thru all this other major issues were still put off. The GCW, which alot of us still think should be the primary focus of the game, not Jedi. There were changes, but not to make it better, just to apease the whiners. We went from TEF system to no TEF system. Covert and Overt to On leave, PvE, and Special forces. Never fixed the Base bugs where one man demo's could blow bases, terminals were bugged, infinite firing turrets. Just changed them and took out turrets from SF bases. And from what I hear (since I do not play anymore) you have just taken bases out all together.
Then came the NGE. Yet another combat system. even more simplified that the previous 2. Not to mention that it was some top secret development that was introduced and announced right after the ToOW expansion came out.
Do you see the pattern here? SWG does not fix anything, it just replaces it with something else or removes it all together.
So once again I will ask my question.
With everything that has been done by the development team of SWG over the last 3 years, how can you expect anyone to have any faith you will actually get it right this time?
I shouldn't care really since I do not play SWG anymore. But it not only effects the SWG game but all SOE games. I am now playing EQ2 on their newly introduced PvP server (played the PvE server prior). That Dev team has actually done it right for the most part. Yes there are bugs, every game especially MMO will have them. But for the most part combat and classes are balanced. Every class has it's benifits and weaknesses. But, I can not get most of the SWG refugees to play because it is an SOE game. I try to explain that it is not SOE who ruined SWG, it is the SWG Dev team who did, but they can not distinguish between the 2. Too bad, cause the EQ2 PvP servers are fun.
Sad thing is each one of the previous combat systems (Pre-CU and CURB) could have been balanced just like EQ2 has done. But instead they were replaced, and then replaced again. You say you are not going to go back to those systems, so what is the next system you going to replace the NGE with? (I do not expect an answer to that).
I love SWG, I really do, but at the same time I hate it. I hate that I have to pay for playing a beta. If you said yourself that the game is not ready to get new subs, then you shouldn't expect people to pay for it. I think you should put the game back in beta stage, and start on a fresh, with the NGE. NGE can be good, but it needs really much time and work.
Either we end up being right about our ability to turn the ship around and make a game that's BETTER than it was before, or we were wrong and we fail.
Smed
Thank you for coming here with a KATN attitude and laying this all out, straight up.
Sure we may not all agree with what's happened, but the fact that you came here and did this today just gave me a lot more respect for you and the team.
Not calling out TH here, his job is to be the go between, he can't come here and KATN, and I'm glad to see you have his back and are stepping in to do it for him, where there's no way he could.
Thanks again.
(if you don't know what KATN is, Google it to find the meaning of the acronym).
Do you like it? Do you like it, Scott? I call it, "Mr. & Mrs. Tenorman Chili" -One of Cartman's finest moments-
will we ever see a lock on target system agen? Will we ever get a skill sytem simmular, or like the one we had before? And do you think this gaem feel like Star Wars?
1) No target lock is planned or being discussed. 2) There will be additional skills for each profession, but not like the system before. I realize this is contriversial but there it is.
Smed
man this game is never going to get better.
why can't you do these things?
Message Edited by RKO on 03-24-200609:26 AM
Why can't we do these things?
1) Target lock - Believe it or not we talked long and hard about this one. If you seriously sit down and think about the nature of the NGE style of combat, it means that people need to be able to use actual skill to hit. If you take that away you need to go back to the more turn based system we had before. It just plain wouldn't work. Now you can make a legitimate argument that we shouldn't use this style of combat. I have no defense against that argument because nearly every other MMO out there uses that style of combat and clearly it works. What we are trying to do here is create a new style of gameplay. Does it work? Well.. for some people it does, and for others it doesn't. That's the truth. For myself, I prefer it to the old combat system which I personally found dull. But that's just my personal opinion. The reality is we've changed to the new system and we're moving forward. It isn't that we can't add target locking.. it's that wer'e not going to because there isn't a way to do it that wouldn't reduce the skill level needed.
2) The more rigid profession system we've switched to just doesn't lend itself to a skill system that's like what we had before.
Smed
That is exactly why this game will never have the player base it use to have. This is not listening to your player base. I dare you to put up a poll asking which of the three combat systems your player base would prefer to have. Just because YOU like the new combat system doesn't mean your players do. I'm willing to bet 33%-50% of the current players are only still in game because they are die hard Star Wars fans and would drop SWG in a heart beat if another Star Wars MMO came out. You can preach about how well you listen to the community all you want but until you listen to our loudest concern and dump the NGE then this game will never be great again.
how come i just feel like i was bitched at by my father? I have never seen a high ranked employee speak to customers that way, in my opinion it was rude and not needed. We are PAYING customers looking for answers. And im not happy with the answers we got.
Sorry try again.
I understand how you feel, I wasn't all that happy with some of the answers either. BUT, what we just saw was Smed treating us (the player base) as colleagues as opposed to "just" customers. Personally, I think that this is incredibly refreshing. I also appreciate the honesty and frankness that comes with that distinction. Companies rarely engage in this type of communication with their customer base, because they are afraid of upsetting their customers. Instead they attempt to "manage" their communication, by "massaging" the message. Here, we are seeing some straight forward responses to our questions. We may not like them, but at least we know where Smed (and SOE) stand. This is a good thing.
Talan'sen Corby Rebel Swashbuckler Kaif Corby Elder Merchant sNs vendors located in New Dublin, Dantooine at -1209 3469
Mr. Smedley... Smed. I work for a disability provider, and believe you me, I know about complaints, and I know you can never make everyone happy. Given. But this is the only question I'd like to ask, and please don't see this as a bait question, but if you can, try to answer as honestly as possible (within obvious limitations):
The way the game is today, why should I continue to purchase this product? Why do you think I shouldn't cancel my account and wait for the game to be "ready"?
Now I know you'll probably see this as a "black hole question", but I'm basically looking to you for hope. When the publish plan came out, alot of my hope faded, because at this rate, we won't have increased GCW activities for months. Also, it would've been nice to add ETAs for these pubs, instead of outlining vague goals without a timeline. So if you can answer my question, in a genuine and honest way, I'll stick with SOE, I'll give you fellas another shot at making this a great game again.
Lunga Nor SoUL Home: Trader's Luck, Talus Playing since October 26th, 2004... Can I be part of the cool-kids club now?
Smed wrote: There is absolutely no truth to these rumors.
Why did I respond on FOH and not here? I just happened to see that thread last night... simple as that. At some point I can only deny nonsensical rumors on so many websites before it just plain becomes frustrating to me. It's the old "when did you stop kicking your puppy" trap..
On the other hand John, the professiona thing to do would have been to have said nothing until either an official statement had come out or you had addressed the issue here on the SWG forum.
Like it or not, you are 'our' guy, not WoW's, not FoH's.
By posting in the offsite forum you created a situation whereby the community management here were potentially faced with a firestorm which they'd had no warning about.
But hey, we all make mistakes and, like you guys are painfully fond of saying 'moving forward'...
I've also asked the Lucasarts folks to comment on this which you should see today some time (not sure when or where exactly).
I also want to say - I'm happy to discuss things that need to be done to make SWG better. What I will not do is respond to "go back to pre-NGE" threads or "please make 1 pre-nge server" threads. I've commented on those before.
Smed
Smed,
Please post your top 5 concerns from the player base.
Thunderhart has posted his, we would like to see if you understand what the main problems are in this game.
ok. Here are my top 5. Keep in mind, this doesn't mean this is the order things are being done.. just my personal ones and what I see being big issues with the community.
1. Crafting - I know crafters are pissed.. we're working on a system that I hope will be a good balance between the crafting centric system we had before and the loot drop system we have now. The truth is this needs to be balanced.
One suggestion that I've seen that actually looks sane is that we stop dropping modded items and start dropping SEA/CA/AA again. Now obviously I can't comment on the technical side of that as to whether or not it'd be a feasable option but it would address several key issues:
Crafters could continue to make socketed items
Players could collect the SEAs and customise their stats as they want.
Species restrictions would be less of an issue as there are tailors who can and will make wookiee, Ithorian and trando clothing.
2. New quests for the mid-levels - there's not enough of them now. The team is cranking on it.
That's a seriously disturbing image.... /shudder
3. PvP - Not nearly enough of it - I don't like what we've done to faction bases. Personally I think this is a big part of what this game needs to be about. Then again, I'm personally a PvPer so that's a big deal to me.
On the other hand I am, or was, a PvEer. My game was spent gathering resources for crafters, exploring, hunting, etc.
The current organic resource drops create two problems.
It is not attractive to players to hunt for resources now as we only recieve a random organic (ie meat, hide OR bone) in about 1 in 5 successful loots. You don't get a loot on every kill and have no control, other than a very sluggish UI box) to allow you to select the TYPE of resource that is needed to meet your contract.
The resulting slump in supply of oganics has resulted in crafters having to pay over the odds for any old scraps they find on the bazaar. I won't go into the problems that that causes them, it's a VERY well rehearsed and well documented argument.
Reintroduction of a VIABLE PvE mechanic (consistant and targetable resources, CON system that actually works, a class with the skills or the skill which can be taken up by more than one class to be creature centric again) would go a long way to persuading the many people who are hanging out on 'refugee' sites waiting for the return of Scout, Creature Handler, BioEngineer and, in my case, Ranger)
I currently play a Ranger in another SOE title and, while it is dramatically different to the old SWG Rangers, it is a viable profession in both PvP and PvE. When I choose to gather resources the combat skills that that character has (ranged attack, traps, stealth) make hunting a viable option. True I cannot target a corpse and harvest specific resources but the loot drops appear more consistent and are in keeping with the requirements for organics that the crafters require (in terms of quantity etc) whereas SWG's has got seriously out of balance.
I mention EQII as it IS a SOE product, rather than harking on about Blizzards hack and slash even though I know you are very familiar with the mechanics of that game.
4. Entertainers - I realize a lot of people don't like the idea of entertainers being in combat. To a lot of people this IS why they went into entertaining in the first place. I like where we're going with it and want to make sure it's balanced properly.
While I'm glad to be getting some combat skills back on my entertainers, like many others I am disappointed that these are ranged skills and not melee. I understand that giving melee skills would turn the ents int dancing tanks, but I suppose it's a start.
We are all watching with bated breath to see what the ENTERTAINER part of the Entertainer revamp consists of though. There has to be content and not just some tweaking of abilities and a few random lighting effects.
5. Higher end content - There's a lack of really interesting high-end content in the game. A lot of the vets have maxed out and we need to make sure there's still enough to do.
The removal of apprentice points, the removal of the planet chat facilities and the drop in population, be that localised as folk head out to world zones where tehy are fighting at an appropriate level or it's global as people have just gone out of game, all these things have contributed to the death of the social aspect of the game.
This was something that the long term players contributed greatly to as they had the skills and experience to help others advance and also had the funds and contacts to make a success out og towns, guilds etc.
Please bear in mind that there is more to content than JUST PvP or linear quests.
Again, referring back to EQII. I was hugely impressed by that games side quests, the hallmark quests, the profession/tradeskill quests etc.
One particularly simple series of quests that gets players out into the world, exploring, fighting, using their skills and having FUN while at the same time building depth and interest in the character and the characters world, is the "History of..." series.
For anyone not familiar with these, basically it is a short chain quest (three parts, each with three tasks) that introduce you to the history (origin myth) of your species and the other species you will encounter ingame.
In a SWG context this would equate to:
A History of Humans A History of Zabrak A History of Twi'lek, etc.
The first story part keeps you in the relative safe planets, going to landmark locations (just like badgehunting) but with a storyline that informs you of the significance of that location from the perspective of the specific race whose history you are learning.
The second takes you closer to dangerous areas, expands the story.
The third takes you to an adventure planet, eg Dathomir, and concludes the story (from the historical perspective of that species)
This could concievably be extended to include "A History of the Empire" "A History of the Rebel Alliance" etc.
The reward for doing this is XP from exploration, credits for completing missions along the way and selling off junk looted, and a trophy item, say a HoloBook per 'History'. Got to collect 'em all...
Now, it wouldn't be to everyones taste, but unlike Legacy it wouldn't be the "Only" way to advance, its's a side quest, added local falvour, a boost to the RP community etc.
At the end of the day it's CONTENT and not 'just another bunch of junk to loot'.
Anyway, glad to see you posting here John. Keep this up and you could grind out your post count to match that on your FoH account
There's still a LONG way to go to rebuild the trust of the player base and to show us that not only do you have good INTENTIONS but are actually delivering.
The truth is the community morale won't improve until the game does. Communication can't fix this. Improvements to the game can. The fact is our communication has improved.. people don't neccessarily like the message is all. I get that. So do our community folks. My preference is that all the posts in the gameplay forum are discussing gameplay balance.. and in-game issues.. but they won't until we get the game to a baseline fun level. We're not there yet. We know that. We're working to fix it. There is no other answer.
Smed
Wow. An offical representative saying the game is hurting. This does give me hope. Not much. But some. We have seen in the past that what is said may not come to pass. Be aware Smed, the community will hold you to the above statement.
The SWG community has been voting with it's feet since the NGE came about. Either we end up being right about our ability to turn the ship around and make a game that's BETTER than it was before, or we were wrong and we fail. Either way we were losing subs before the NGE and believe it or not, we are losing them at a slower rate than before. I'm not going to pretend we didn't lose a bunch of subs from this. We did. And I don't think the game is where it needs to be yet to aquire new subs. But it's getting there with each and every publish.
At the end of the day there are a lot of people in this community that wonder why we did this? Why did we "deliberately" try and piss people off. Obviously that wasn't our intent. This is a business and we needed to improve the results of the business. Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one. One thing is certain. We made a mistake with how we presented it to the community, and for that I'm sorry. I still think it was a needed thing though. It's not as simple as "you should have just fixed the things we were complaining about". That doesn't address the very real fact that what we had was a hardcore game that wasn't going to attract the mass audience that the Star Wars IP brings to the table.
Smed
See John, this is where you lose me. This game during the first CU was very similar to WoW in gameplay.
The lack of newbie quests and help in the beginning hurt starting players. Also, I never saw any marketing or advertisements for SWG. These two things IMO were the biggest reason your subscription numbers didn't grow at a high rate. Those reasons, and obviously the huge amount of bugs that have always been here.
So my question is how you guys feel that changing to what you term as a more skill intensive combat system, alienating the existing player base (vets and all those lost professions and work down the drain), having no realistic way to level after lvl 30 could possibly be a healthy thing for this game.
IMO, and a vast majority of current and former players, you already have failed. See we get that. The fact that you guys don't is a big concern. We are aover the fact that this gameplay doesn't work. We want to know what is next.
Do you continue down the path to eventual server shutdown, or do you admit that this doesn't work and try a different approach?
Thanks for your time, and I appreciate your responses in this thread.
The truth is the community morale won't improve until the game does. Communication can't fix this. Improvements to the game can. The fact is our communication has improved.. people don't neccessarily like the message is all. I get that. So do our community folks. My preference is that all the posts in the gameplay forum are discussing gameplay balance.. and in-game issues.. but they won't until we get the game to a baseline fun level. We're not there yet. We know that. We're working to fix it. There is no other answer.
Smed
Wow. An offical representative saying the game is hurting. This does give me hope. Not much. But some. We have seen in the past that what is said may not come to pass. Be aware Smed, the community will hold you to the above statement.
The SWG community has been voting with it's feet since the NGE came about. Either we end up being right about our ability to turn the ship around and make a game that's BETTER than it was before, or we were wrong and we fail. Either way we were losing subs before the NGE and believe it or not, we are losing them at a slower rate than before. I'm not going to pretend we didn't lose a bunch of subs from this. We did. And I don't think the game is where it needs to be yet to aquire new subs. But it's getting there with each and every publish.
At the end of the day there are a lot of people in this community that wonder why we did this? Why did we "deliberately" try and piss people off. Obviously that wasn't our intent. This is a business and we needed to improve the results of the business. Did we make a mistake? Maybe.. but only time is going to tell on that one. One thing is certain. We made a mistake with how we presented it to the community, and for that I'm sorry. I still think it was a needed thing though. It's not as simple as "you should have just fixed the things we were complaining about". That doesn't address the very real fact that what we had was a hardcore game that wasn't going to attract the mass audience that the Star Wars IP brings to the table.
Smed
I'm so glad to hear that. In general, the NGE doesn't bother me. The manner it was presented to me in did. Seeing this means a lot to me.
If I could add one concern: with everything that is being done to the game, is there some way you all could add more GCW content? I liked Mustafar and Kashyyyk, but I'd love to see some devoted content to the GCW.
I have to agree. A simple apology would've done wonders 4 months ago Smed. I think it's a bit to late now. I am gone, took a few friends with me, and stopped many more from trying the game. Not because the changes were bad (which they were), I can deal with the NGE as a game, but because of the attitude and arrogance shown to us through the lies and lack of respect for your current customer base.
Message Edited by SWGisFTW on 03-24-200611:03 AM
From a recent news article: I sought out LucasArts to ask about the hacked server numbers and community outrage, the company replied in the following e-mail:
"...it took a couple of days to touch base with the key members of the Galaxies team. Unfortunately, LucasArts has no comment for this story. I'll be sure to keep you informed with announcements for future Galaxies' plans and our upcoming titles."
And then a review-copy of Star Wars: Empire At War arrived on my desk.
will we ever see a lock on target system agen? Will we ever get a skill sytem simmular, or like the one we had before? And do you think this gaem feel like Star Wars?
1) No target lock is planned or being discussed. 2) There will be additional skills for each profession, but not like the system before. I realize this is contriversial but there it is.
Smed
man this game is never going to get better.
why can't you do these things?
Message Edited by RKO on 03-24-200609:26 AM
Why can't we do these things?
1) Target lock - Believe it or not we talked long and hard about this one. If you seriously sit down and think about the nature of the NGE style of combat, it means that people need to be able to use actual skill to hit. If you take that away you need to go back to the more turn based system we had before. It just plain wouldn't work. Now you can make a legitimate argument that we shouldn't use this style of combat. I have no defense against that argument because nearly every other MMO out there uses that style of combat and clearly it works. What we are trying to do here is create a new style of gameplay. Does it work? Well.. for some people it does, and for others it doesn't. That's the truth. For myself, I prefer it to the old combat system which I personally found dull. But that's just my personal opinion. The reality is we've changed to the new system and we're moving forward. It isn't that we can't add target locking.. it's that wer'e not going to because there isn't a way to do it that wouldn't reduce the skill level needed.
2) The more rigid profession system we've switched to just doesn't lend itself to a skill system that's like what we had before.
Smed
OK.... i understand the reasoning behind Target Lock and the FPS programming/dynamic. I do not understand the The "more rigid profession system we've switched to just doesn't lend itself to a skill system that's like what we had before.", reasoning at all. what advantage does lack of choice and individualization present/offer SOE to do this?
The answer here is it has the advantage of not being a min/max system. You won't end up with everyone being one particular combination in order to play pvp.
Obviously this is in *theory* in practice.. we ain't there yet.
