I already have the current issues list that RandonB put together. And yes nothing much has changed. But I would like to hear from as many of you as would like to speak up about current issues you have with the pistoleer profession. I understand that most our specials are redundant and many not working as they should. Im trying to put together a master list of ALL problems. and prioritize them. And yes Dual Wield is on it.
Obviously Our speed is huge concern. and I agree and it should be a priority in the revamp.
The specials do need to be updated or possibly completely revamped.
To get a ton of state specials, we may end up having to give up something...same goes for damage types...we sacrifice power for damage types. But the speed formula has been messed up and has not been taken into account...
As far as other perks we actually have quite a few defenses in our favor with the state defenses and melee defense. But those should be balanced in the revamp also. How much defense should a pistoleer have? And what is the trade off?
So...States, Speed, Defenses, Damage Types how would you rank these in order of importance, #1 most important, #4 Least important.
Message Edited by LordMaxx on 10-08-200409:40 AM
Maxx Wolfe "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." - Han Solo Leader of Team Desert Eagle and Founder of PATGWNIWNU a offshoot of RATGWNIWNU! Chilastra/Valcyn/TC
I would like to see some state effects given to some of the attacks, perhaps a KD/Dizzy with Pistol Melee Defense 2. This along with simply having working specials.
Yes, state effects would be super. We should not have anything more than AP1. KD/Dizzy would be great with Pistol Melee defense 2. I think that Pistoleer should be the only ranged profession that can shoot at the cap not counting people with skill tapes and/or exceptional weapons. Granted that is perhaps an issue for the other professions it makes pistoleer less attractive if someone can head shot 3 at the cap. Also, I think that it makes sense for the launcher pistol to have AP1 considering the rocket launcher does heavy armor piercing and the launcher is supposed to fire a "small suite of rockets." Working or at least somewhat effective specials would be nice. Disarming shot does not seem worth anything. And more speed should be given to pistoleer, at present one needs to have Desperado for the speed and accuracy.
I would like to see a dizzy attack. Also, a little higher speed mods would be nice, considering our master cert pistol is slow as a tortoise on a cold day.
Now, as far as what's wrong? Well... I still don't think I've ever used multi-target pistol shot, bodyshot 3 or disarming shot. These need to be changed in some way to make them useful. It would be nice, now that there is a weapon switch delay, to actually be able to make our oppenent unequip their weapon with disarming shot. Give it a timer so it can't continually be used. I'd like to see melee defense 2 given a state effect, same with multi-target pistol shot. Too many unused specials, especially master specials.
Imperiai2
Wing Commander
Posts: 603
Registered: 07-15-2003
PA:
Give the Smugglers something for cripes sake.
Server: Naritus
I would like to see more pistols, period. I don't even care if alot of them have similar or even equal stats, I'm just stick of looking at all the same ones. There have got to be a thousand models of pistol on the market (black or otherwise) at this point in time of Star Wars...
And dual pistols of course.
B'en F'olds of Naritus Master Smuggler & Master Pistoleer (and just enough Medic to stay alive) Vet Status: If you remember having to go out and loot your own corpse. To the so-called 'uber': There's always someone cooler than you.
Yes, state effects would be super. We should not have anything more than AP1. KD/Dizzy would be great with Pistol Melee defense 2. I think that Pistoleer should be the only ranged profession that can shoot at the cap not counting people with skill tapes and/or exceptional weapons. Granted that is perhaps an issue for the other professions it makes pistoleer less attractive if someone can head shot 3 at the cap. Also, I think that it makes sense for the launcher pistol to have AP1 considering the rocket launcher does heavy armor piercing and the launcher is supposed to fire a "small suite of rockets." Working or at least somewhat effective specials would be nice. Disarming shot does not seem worth anything. And more speed should be given to pistoleer, at present one needs to have Desperado for the speed and accuracy.
/applaud
This guy knows balance. Pistoleers need better state attacks, and less of a dependence on BH's Desperado the way things are currently setup for speed. Shooting at the same speed, with half the damage, half the armor piercing, and half the state attacks as riflemen don't cut anything in PvP. I am formally disgruntled.
Axob Freelight - Rebel Troop - Pistoleer of UnGuilded
"Well, if the playerbase isn't willing to accept possible punishment for carrying illegal spice/weapons/armor,
then perhaps we should change it to where only Smugglers are allowed to carry such items, since it seems they
are the only profession with big enough balls to handle penalties for carrying those items." - Veela, Scoundrelless
Master Smuggler - Supporter of a Strong Imperial Crackdown
I'd love to have more speed and fix the current specials. You shouldnt need master marksman, scout 4xxx and be a bounty hunter in order to use pistols effectively . A dizzy would be nice but working, non "redundant" specials would be just grand.
pistoleer needs to have a master box special that is worth using. it sucks that for a pistol user to be effective in pvp they have to have BH 0040 imo. something non-lame. doesnt have to steal mind attacks from rifle or bh or anything....but something that is realistically as good as or better than those, but not overy powerful
maybe something unique like a better fan shot thats health targeted....or a shot that hits targets health/action but for alot....or hits someone multiple times but for alot.....just something actually useful
----
defenses are low, but still not too shabby so not a big deal.
easy to mix the prof with anything, just needs it own attack
RandonB's list still applies for the pistoleer specials, so nothing to add there.
Speed - add more speed at the master box. You shouldn't need gear or BH Pistols to fire faster than a rifleman. For example, unsliced guns with only master mods and best dps shot:
DX2 2.3/97-156 pistol with 74 speed is ~530dps @ 1.4s delay add master marksman (+5 speed) ~655dps @ 1.2s delay
T21 7.0/132-362 rifle with 90 speed is ~800dps @ 1.4s delay add master marksman (+5 speed) ~1500dps @ 1.2s delay
This doesn't even take into account the fact that the T21 is AP3.
Damage types - I'd love to see a new pistol or two with electric and/or cold damage types. Since we're limited to AP1 this would let us at least be able to pick the vulnerable points on a target. It would be nice if we could use scatter/launcher as well since they are pistols, but don't really see it happening.
DX2 - Reduce the powerhandler requirement from 5 to 2-3 like most other pistols. The Geo takes less even (at 4), which makes it very difficult to enhance our 'elite' gun when a scatter pistol only takes 1 in comparision.
BadgerSmaker
Pilot
Posts: 823
Registered: 01-07-2004
PA:
INCAP
Server: Chimaera
What was the original idea for the balance between Pistoleers, Carbineers and Rilfemen? Something along the line of:
Pistols - low damage - high speed - directable states (all of them?) - lots/all of damage types available - good at short to medium range - favors melee defense - fast movement speed - fast weapon change speed (only when changing to another pistol) - low armour piercing
Carbines - medium damage - medium speed - random states - half or more damage types available - best at mid to long range - balanced between melee and ranged defense - good movement speed - good weapon change speed when grabbing another type of carbine - good armour piercing
Rifles - high damage - low speed - a few states - a few damage types available - excellent at long range - favors ranged defense - least movement speed - slowest at changing to other rifles - high armour piercing
That way you could pick one that favours your playstyle, would you prefer to be a high damaging, slow, lumbering, heavy hitter... or the fast moving, fast hitting, state effect pistoleer... or maybe the carbineer who bridges the gap between the two?
Quite honestly I wouldn't know where to start with Pistoleer as a profession on its own. If it were me I'd dump all the current specials and make an entirely new set that makes Pistoleer the technical fighter it should be.
Message Edited by BadgerSmaker on 10-08-200401:44 PM
LordMaxx wrote: I already have the current issues list that RandonB put together. And yes nothing much has changed. But I would like to hear from as many of you as would like to speak up about current issues you have with the pistoleer profession. I understand that most our specials are redundant and many not working as they should. Im trying to put together a master list of ALL problems. and prioritize them. And yes Dual Wield is on it.
Obviously Our speed is huge concern. and I agree and it should be a priority in the revamp.
The specials do need to be updated or possibly completely revamped.
To get a ton of state specials, we may end up having to give up something...same goes for damage types...we sacrifice power for damage types. But the speed formula has been messed up and has not been taken into account...
As far as other perks we actually have quite a few defenses in our favor with the state defenses and melee defense. But those should be balanced in the revamp also. How much defense should a pistoleer have? And what is the trade off?
So...States, Speed, Defenses, Damage Types how would you rank these in order of importance, #1 most important, #4 Least important.
Message Edited by LordMaxx on 10-08-200409:40 AM
#1. Speed
#2. States
#3. Damage Types
#4. Defenses
As for as giving up something, I'd be more than happy to give up all of our master specials for a couple of state specials.
The way I see it, our speed (what we're supposed to have, at least) should make up for the lack of damage our pistols have. I agree that we should have no higher than AP1 weapons, since we're supposed to be fighting other people, NOT heavily armored machines. I personally don't have any problem with our defenses, although I wouldn't mind seeing a little more melee defense, since we're supposed to be fighting in relatively close proximity compared to other ranged fighters. Maybe throw in some melee mitigation like smugglers get (I know it's only mit 1, but mit 1 is better than mit 0).
But most importantly we need our specials fixed. I'm sure, what with -- hopefully -- a lot of thought going into the combat rebalance, the issue of our special attacks will not be fixed until the rebalance. However, the addition of a couple of state effects would at least breathe a little life into a lot of dead specials. We are the ONLY profession (of those that have master specials) where NONE of our master specials are either working as intended or useful.
Message Edited by SolzDevius on 10-08-200408:18 AM
For me, speed is the top one, for same reason as everybody else. I'd put damage types above states, as for me being a pistoleer means having a varied arsenal at my disposal. The offensive balance is between sheer damage (per hit and AP, not DPS), states and damage types and I'd rather leave the state attacks for carbineers. Yes dizzy on melee defence 2 and intimidate on disarming shot 2 would be perfect, but I wouldn't feel the need for any more state attacks. Defences are kind of ok at the moment, though I do think a bit more ranged defence wouldn't go amis.
Formerly: Pedr-Dwl Wibble - Gunslinging tracker for hire on Farstar - Staff Cpl, Imperial auxillary Elisa von-Smolloff - Pyromaniac bird of Infinity - Cpl, Rebel special forces Now gone. Doesn't see the point of a bile-venting "I'm leaving" thread.
First, I think it's very difficult to get good responses from players on what the most important issues are without knowing the full system we will be in post revamp. With everything from HAM to speed to accuracy changing, it's impossible for us to say "this is how it should work" when the assumptions we've based that on are totally changed. At any rate, here are my thoughts...(plus a few extra's that you didn't ask for)
Our Role: Pistol skills are included in 5 of the professions. They are the center of the SWG universe. Pistoleer + any of the other 5 professions should be the way to go.
In order of importance (1 = highest).
Accuracy #1 (We are up close after-all. We can have the second highest accuracy in the game, and I think that's how it should stay) Speed #2 Defenses #3 (The trade-off here is that our accuracy goes way down outside of the ideal range. If you want us to fight up close, you've got to give us the defenses to withstand what comes with that) States #4 (This is due to #2 above. One reason a player should have good state attacks would be to keep the opponent off balance - 2nd best thing to just having defenses) Damage #5 (Low-Average damage on normal shots...extremely powerful specials. One trade-off is eliminating many of our specials. Perhaps 1 special per line + 1 or 2 Master specials. The other trade-off is #6 below) HAM costs #6 (HAM will work totally different post revamp, I know but here's my best guess. We should have very high HAM costs for our limited but powerful specials. Our damage and accuracy should make those few shots count. And our speed and defenses should ensure our DPS keeps us kicking until our HAM is recharged and ready for the next wave of specials) Damage Types #7 (We don't need great damage type options...we should be able to do that by picking up parts of those other professions with pistols. The ONE exception is the DE-10. Either Energy must become one of the better damage types in the game, or the DE-10 needs to become a different damage type. There's no reason the best Master level weapon is given the most common damage type.)
I think the hard part about balancing pistoleer is the fact that we DO have other hybrid professions that utilize our abilities...
When we make pistoleer a truly viable and strong standalone profession then what happens when you actually do add on abilities from Smuggler and Bounty hunter. You dont want to make it so unbalanced that adding BH or Smuggler specials to a pistoleers abilities makes them too powerful. I think the trick will be to make it so a BH/Pistoleer or Smuggler/Pistoleer or even a BH/Smuggler/Pistoleer works "differently" not just adding on power.
A BH Pistoleer could be a strong offensive version of the pistoleer and a Smuggler Pistoleer could end up being a strong Defensive version, it would change the way you fight and the way the profession works, but a straight pistoleer with no other hybrid profession could be a strong balanced defense and offense player. Just as viable and strong as the other 2 variations.
I dont know if this can be pulled off unless the 2 hybrid professions become much more dependant on the pistoleer profession. And it would probably mean that certifications and other defensive/offensive factors are built into the 2 hybrid profs, but not so much that it becomes unbalanced...or overpowerful in this case.
These are just some of my thoughts on how the professions work together. This has nothing to do with the Combat balance coming up, but this is where I have been since I put my mind to pistoleer with the hybrids. I was always a pistoleer only, I took up smuggler and had alot of fun with it, and never tried BH (that is being rectified now). But Ive always tried to think of the best way to interlock our hybrid counterparts, Trying to make pistoleer a truly strong profession, but not making it too powerful when adding on the BH and Smuggler hybrids.
Maxx Wolfe "Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid." - Han Solo Leader of Team Desert Eagle and Founder of PATGWNIWNU a offshoot of RATGWNIWNU! Chilastra/Valcyn/TC
LordMaxx wrote: I think the hard part about balancing pistoleer is the fact that we DO have other hybrid professions that utilize our abilities...
I think that's the core issue with Pistoleer under the current system. You have folks that are "just pistoleers" that feel shorted since three other professions use pistols and have the ability to take up pistoleer to augment their abilities. You can't just say, "Well those pistoleers need XXXX," cause you are potentially giving XXXX to Commandos, Smugglers, and Bounty Hunters.
Also as stated further up its hard to say what our current problems are because, as has been promised for a year, "the combat balance is just around the bend." If pressed I'd say specials are an issue, besides that I can't comment as I believe its all up in the air and can't be addressed until, what I believe to be, the core issue is dealt with.
LordMaxx wrote: I think the hard part about balancing pistoleer is the fact that we DO have other hybrid professions that utilize our abilities...
When we make pistoleer a truly viable and strong standalone profession then what happens when you actually do add on abilities from Smuggler and Bounty hunter. You dont want to make it so unbalanced that adding BH or Smuggler specials to a pistoleers abilities makes them too powerful. I think the trick will be to make it so a BH/Pistoleer or Smuggler/Pistoleer or even a BH/Smuggler/Pistoleer works "differently" not just adding on power.
A BH Pistoleer could be a strong offensive version of the pistoleer and a Smuggler Pistoleer could end up being a strong Defensive version, it would change the way you fight and the way the profession works, but a straight pistoleer with no other hybrid profession could be a strong balanced defense and offense player. Just as viable and strong as the other 2 variations.
That is true, and very good points. Given the skill points left over after M. Pistoleer, we should think of pistoleer in terms of a hybrid add-on profession. That's why my top 3 were accuracy, speed, and defenses. I think those are the three "fundamental" elements of being an effective pistoleer regardless of your other roles...it's what would make using a pistol fun. If you want to use pistols and dish out lots of state effects, go pistol + mbh...if you want to be a pistoleer and dish out high damage, go commando or smuggler (I realize commando doesn't do anything for pistoleers today other than a new damage type, but pretending post revamp it did). As a Bounty Hunter from the beginning, my view on pistols, carbines, etc. has always been about your style of play. I chose M. Pistoleer because using a pistol is the type of gameplay I enjoy (up close, fast, good damage, some defenses).
First off I would rank the order of priorities as such:
1)Speed, we are supposed to be the fastest ranged profession by far
2)States, I like to equate pistoleer to fencer and fencer has blind and dizzy attacks
3)Defense, only looking for more melee defense since we generally fight close-quartered
4)Damage types, we have stun, acid, energy, heat, kinetic, and blast with novice commando. This is not a priority. This is one of our
greatest strengths. But I sure would like to see entangle again for the heck of it.
I understand your point LordMaxx about the possibility of making pistoleer too powerful with hybrid templates but how is that compared to templates such as combat medic/rifleman or the defense stackers. I remember when I was a master fencer, teras kasi master, rogue and trickshot. Of course I never used pistols but the point is that in PvP and PvE I was almost unbeatable if I played my cards right. I really hate to talk about other professions but my point is that I am not that worried about being too powerful with a hybrid, I just want to be a factor. I think that by adding state effects ro our arsenal we will not be more powerful but more technically based relying on smarts and quickness rather than brute strength.
Geevo
Squadron Leader
Posts: 3510
Registered: 10-16-2003
PA:
Corusca Ancients (CA): Council Member
Server: Intrepid
LordMaxx wrote: I think the hard part about balancing pistoleer is the fact that we DO have other hybrid professions that utilize our abilities...
When we make pistoleer a truly viable and strong standalone profession then what happens when you actually do add on abilities from Smuggler and Bounty hunter. You dont want to make it so unbalanced that adding BH or Smuggler specials to a pistoleers abilities makes them too powerful. I think the trick will be to make it so a BH/Pistoleer or Smuggler/Pistoleer or even a BH/Smuggler/Pistoleer works "differently" not just adding on power.
A BH Pistoleer could be a strong offensive version of the pistoleer and a Smuggler Pistoleer could end up being a strong Defensive version, it would change the way you fight and the way the profession works, but a straight pistoleer with no other hybrid profession could be a strong balanced defense and offense player. Just as viable and strong as the other 2 variations.
I dont know if this can be pulled off unless the 2 hybrid professions become much more dependant on the pistoleer profession. And it would probably mean that certifications and other defensive/offensive factors are built into the 2 hybrid profs, but not so much that it becomes unbalanced...or overpowerful in this case.
These are just some of my thoughts on how the professions work together. This has nothing to do with the Combat balance coming up, but this is where I have been since I put my mind to pistoleer with the hybrids. I was always a pistoleer only, I took up smuggler and had alot of fun with it, and never tried BH (that is being rectified now). But Ive always tried to think of the best way to interlock our hybrid counterparts, Trying to make pistoleer a truly strong profession, but not making it too powerful when adding on the BH and Smuggler hybrids.
I agree, however if that avenue is taken then if someone is 'just a Smuggler' then it requires us to get the Pistoleer to do any real damage. As it is right now, there are no mods for unarmed or pistol ... yet requires experience of both to level. We (smugglers) have one complete line of pistol xp required (same xp as you need for one line) ... yet no speed, accuracy, or defense mods.
For a Smuggler to use /lowblow, /panicshot, or /lastditch ... we need to hit our target. But we can't hit the broadside of a barn at Master Smuggler without the Pistoleer skills. If the concern is overpowering a player, don't focus on only the professions that add to Pistoleer ... there are other elite combat professions that can be stacked. As with any profession, teh combination of 2 or 3 professions makes every situation different. Would you be so concerned about overpower if it was a Master Pistoleer, Master Carbineer, Master Rifleman?
The main point I agree with, it needs to be balanced. But everyone needs to ensure not hurting another profession to make theirs more important. For me, all 3 of my professions are important because I believe that the two combat professions improve the primary (smuggler).
We're pistoleers, so I'm trying to post without thinking about smuggler/Bh as well.
Firstly, I don't think the vision of us as defensive fighters works - the current system means that our state defences don't really work as they should.
Taking it right back the purpose of a pistol is pretty straightforward - it's an easy to use and carry multiple shot weapon.
So lets break it down in terms of 'real world' pistol use:
FBI figures suggest that most gun battles occur at a distance of 8m or less, with both protagonists moving (and incedentally out of breath!) and usually in poor light.
You will be hard pressed to find any miltary in the world that doesn't allow its soldiers to carry psitols in addition to other weapons
Skilled pistol marksmen learn a number of combat shooting techniques - double tapping a traget for instance
One reason that pistols are so widespread is their concealability and ease of draw
Sooooo...
Pistoleers should be THE most accurate ranged class while moving
The penalty for changing weapons should be seriously less for a pistol than almost any other weapon
Our specials make sense on the whole (IF THEY DAMN WELL WORKED AFTER A YEAR!)
Our reliance on damaging the health pool is a definate weakness that needs to be addressed
If we are to remain a defensive class then some of our specials need to change to reflect this - there should be more specials which allow us to affect our opponentes to decrease their ability to hit us - stuns and blinds leap to mind
Our bleeds are now largely useless - if the CB isn't going to address the fact that bleeds are pointless now we should definately look to get these replaces with something more useful - maybe stuns?
Pistol Melee Knockdown 2 needs to work
Disarming shot - Major issue here - it's never really worked and we still have no clear idea of what it should do. My vote is for an 'immobilise' effect for say 5 seconds, while the opponent picks up their weapon - similar to being rooted in EQ.
We also need to be able to fire a hell of a lot faster to make up for our total lack of anyhting above AP1
We seriously need to see balance between ranged profs and melee profs - at the moment meleers clearly have the upper hand.
Finally, and most importantly, pistoleer needs to be a class in it's own right and not the dabblers delight.
Shaw Lands Formerly Pistoleer & Entirely Legitimate Businessman One Time Avatar of the Old Republic Cancelled after waiting for the Smuggler Revamp for a year and a half.
ratlif
Pilot
Posts: 670
Registered: 02-12-2004
Server: Kettemoor
I applaud your efforts at gathering information as to what we would liked fixed. I think it will all go null and void though.
Think about it. They have to do a completely new combat system, or that is what they intended to do. So even if we get specials fixed, won't they need to be redone again for the new combat system?
Account Cancelled August 5, 2004 Reason: Lack of attention on a severly broke core game.
LordMaxx wrote: I think the hard part about balancing pistoleer is the fact that we DO have other hybrid professions that utilize our abilities...
This is NO excuse not to have pistoleer be a viable stand alone combat profession. The basic PvP system of this game is built on stacking professions to complement each other. As it stands a base master pistoleer is the lowest of the low on the PvP food chain. This needs to change. We need to be fast, low damage dealers that apply state effects, and have a variety of damage types. We are the first wave in a ranged assult. We get in, pinpoint targets and hit them. The Carbine stays behind us and cone attacks while the riflemen star in the back and slowly blast the hell out of everyone.
Joras Kal'lan
Smouldering with Generic Rage since Server Launch. --Master Smuggler/Master pistol/TKM-- Member of Team Low Blow for the Combat Balance Sandbox.
The Smuggler Community's Johnny Cochran*
"If the revamp doesn't fit, you must quit!"
*Applying the Chewbaca Defense wherever applicable. Any connections with Ewoks are purely coincidental and rediculous. 'Now look at the monkey!'
LordMaxx wrote: I already have the current issues list that RandonB put together. And yes nothing much has changed. But I would like to hear from as many of you as would like to speak up about current issues you have with the pistoleer profession. I understand that most our specials are redundant and many not working as they should. Im trying to put together a master list of ALL problems. and prioritize them. And yes Dual Wield is on it.
Obviously Our speed is huge concern. and I agree and it should be a priority in the revamp.
The specials do need to be updated or possibly completely revamped.
To get a ton of state specials, we may end up having to give up something...same goes for damage types...we sacrifice power for damage types. But the speed formula has been messed up and has not been taken into account...
As far as other perks we actually have quite a few defenses in our favor with the state defenses and melee defense. But those should be balanced in the revamp also. How much defense should a pistoleer have? And what is the trade off?
So...States, Speed, Defenses, Damage Types how would you rank these in order of importance, #1 most important, #4 Least important.
Message Edited by LordMaxx on 10-08-200409:40 AM
speed, hands down, is the most important thing for the backbone of the pistoleer..... our speed to run in and out of the heat of combat, pick off several people at once, and running and gunning the speed equation needs to be worked out, and we need more aoe/multi-target shots, and more accuracy while moving to make us the nimble pistoleers we are
defenses would be my second, because with our low dmg output, that's our asset that keeps us alive and viable in combat..... we just need some more melee and/or ranged defenses and we'll be set
damage types..... with our low AP, those extra damage types gives us a chance to penetrate and take advantage of those vulnerabilities..... but imo, we're pretty set on this one
states, i would add last, not because it is unimportant, just that it would fit last in this equation for me..... all i would really like is just an enhancement on our current state abilities..... a ranged stun, intimidate, or blind would be nice, but would be just copying another skill from other professions...... perhaps instead if there were some new states, that would be ideal to have something to call our own one thing i would like, would be more AOE/multi-target states..... perhaps an aoe bleed, and perhaps pmd2 to have a 180* aoe and/or an extra state added to it (stun or intimidate would be ideal)
also something left off of this list, which is probably the least important, but deserves mention, is finesse we are definately a finesse professions.... dodging, running, rolling in and out of combat, whipping someone upside the head..... we need some twirly moves, etc. but we're pretty much set on this and i'm pretty satisfied with what we have so far
Message Edited by Kevie on 10-09-200406:13 PM
_____________________________________________________ Oaceen Tunaisea (Ow-seen Two-nay-see),Kettemoor Master Pistoleer, Black Epsilon Pilot "maybe if i grew wings / maybe if you lost yours" There is no command, mood, chat type: smuggle
. A dizzy would be nice but working, non "redundant" specials would be just grand.
for a couple of state specials.
