Each ship has its inherant advantages and no one ship is better then another in most circumstances. Each type of pilot, whether they be Freelance, Imperial, or Rebel, each have a stand array of fighters, each limited by its mass. The fast fighters are the Dunelizard, Tie Advanced/Interceptor, and the A-Wing. Each of these figheters is deadly effective with the proper mass managed equipment. Mass management will allow you to pack a bigger punch in a smaller package.
2. Reverse Engineering Rules of Thumb
From psikobunny:
1) Even numbered levels are where it's at for Capacitors. 2,4,6,8,10. Pretty much ignore 1,3,5,7,9 unless you're a feeding a shipwright in a quest for the KSE. The Rule of Even Levels can hold for Boosters too, some other parts aren't as cut an dry, but theses two are pretty much set.
2) Just because Armor decays, doesnt mean its not worth REing. The highest M/E ratio in JtL can come from a good piece of armor. I have REd some that provide as much protection as Level9 heavy crafted armor, but with less than 1/3 the mass.
3) Hawk the bazaar. I set the bazaar for Galaxy wide, and sort by name. After a few days, you learn what part names are interesting, and stand out as being of good levels. It's much harder to get good finds with this than it used to be. I hate the Chassis Broker sales, and a lot of shipwrights have caught on, but you can still catch bargains. I was frustrated with the Chassis Broker sales, since they made a huge effort to prep the bazaar for JtL, then killed it in one stroke. It was a thriving market, and still would be today, alas.
Every L6 reward [engine] is in the top 1% for speed for L6 engines. Chances of beating it are slim, and pointless to use in RE since that's its best feature. Mass can easily be lowered below 10k, and PYR improved to the 70 range. Keep this in your mind when seeking mates for your [L6 reward] engine.
Level 7 Reactors- I have looted a 39k power (RE to 41k) and last night got a 30.8k that should RE to 33k.
Ridiculous power, reasonable mass. Many times low level ultra light crafteds are more than adequate, but these are the level/item that seems to be dropping Exceptional on a good basis.
Another Rule of Thumb for RE scavenging.
When collecting shields, watch for naturally unbalanced shields. This is similar to the manufactured inequity that the old Rebel program did before it was fixed. That was used to create much more powerful RE shields than should have existed, but can't be done now. However, natural loots are a perfectly legit way to get an RE product with more hit points than normal. If you find a shield that is 30% heavy on the front, and then find one 30% heavy on the back, and RE the two, it would have a lot more hit points than an even shield. The key here is to watch the loots, and DO NOT USE THEM IN A SHIP. Loading them automatically balances them, and negates the advantage before you RE. I use this when making L5-6 RE jobs for use in Awings and Interceptors. Light shields with better HP than expected.
When scraping for mass, there are two items I have found recently that are perfect for consideration.
Level1 crafted reactors and level2 crafted DIs.
It's pretty easy for a SW to make a 10k+ reactor that weighs less than 1k mass, and thats usually more than enough for light fighters, even some 2-3 gun ships with proper overloads.
Regarding DIs, I thought for the longest time crafted couldnt compete, until I tested the low end. You can save 1-2k mass and still get a decent speed, when compared to modern loots. Most of my discussions here relate to post-nerf gear, so that it's acessible to any pilot.
Another DI consideration is the potential of using a "bootup" unit. You can save more mass by using a slow DI, if all you use it for is to run overloads, and you have a bit of patience after launch. DI speed is important for tactical programs like CtSS and shield adjustments, less so for Overloading.
I want to say it again because it's very important: Pay more attention to the numbers than the level of your part! The next higher level does not automatically make for a better item.
From TomoRainer:
The number one rule of mass management, I think, is to know your fighter's role and prioritize its parts around that. Light fighters just don't have the mass to be treated as a multirole ship, so you need to analyze the one or three components that will be most crucial to the given job, then maximize those at the expense of everything else.
For instance, if you're planning on taking on gunboats and capital ships, you'll probably want to maximize your shields and weapons and then see what you can do for an engine and armor. If you're going for PVP, build your ship around the best possible engine, with secondary emphases on shields and then weapons, and ensure you have a chaff launcher. If you're going for PVE dogfighting, weapons come first, then your engine, then your shields.
Everything else is a luxury. Even in the necessary items, the reactor and capacitor, don't take anything that gives you any more performance than you need. Try a crafted level 1 reactor with RO4 before you even think about anything heavier. See if an RE'd level 2 capacitor will fit the bill--there shouldn't be a light fighter around that can drain a good one faster than it will recharge. There's no reason to use heavier, they'll just take away from more important parts.
For other near necessities, boosters, droid interfaces, and armor, weigh the usefulness of upgrading against the increase in mass. You probably have no need for a booster beyond a level 1 crafted, level 2 looted, or level 4 reward. A level 3 or 5 DI might be nice, and for PVE the ability to use cap to shield shunt more often might justify it, but start off with a level 1. When it comes to armor, 1K mass at level 1 is almost definitely worth the 250-300 HP it'll provide, but think hard about whether you really need to use 2.5K on 650 HP or 6K on 1175. At that point, you're probably better off spending the mass on upgrading your shields, or your weapons, or your engine.
When it comes to countermeasures and ordnance, I would always fly with a level 1 chaff launcher. It's a necessity in PVP and probably worth its 1K mass for PVE. Missile launchers I would discourage for PVE (though they can be useful at nailing Vette parts) and PVP, but don't rule them out entirely. They're a nice addition if you can find a way to spare the mass.
Even when you're maximizing your most important parts, it can be useful to trim off a bit of performance if it'll free up the space for something small but worth the sacrifice. For instance, a level 7 shield was necessary for my PVP Interceptor, but I decided to sacrifice 125 or so HP from front and back to experiment its mass down by 3K, the equivalent of two level 1 armors and a level 1 booster, or half the Image-Rec launcher I chose to make a critical component. If you're in an Advanced with two level 7 guns, say, you might think about dropping one down to a level 6; it'll clear up 3-6K mass easy with only a minor drop in firepower.
From MWJ:
First lesson of hoarding parts: If you plan to make a set of high level parts, don't Re them together as soon as you get 10 Tier 10s. Wait until you have at least 2 or more extras, so you don't waste those really good parts as filler.
Different types of ships have a bias when they drop loot, in my experiences. Last 20 Hours in Deep Space, about 200-300 loot pieces. This is what I have noticed
These ships will drop other components than what I have listed, but this is what I have found them to drop the most.
Special note: The B-Wing is the only ship so far I have seen drop the Aramek Elite Ion Cannon, a very nice Tier 10 weapon. I currently have 3-4, one with 2500-4300 Damage, another with 42000 mass. These vary in stats widely, but tend to have at least one good attribute each.
From Halyn:
Don't use heavy reactors. Level 1s, 2s, and 3s are usually enough. If you're careful, you can RE a heavier lvl 2 or three with a higher-recharge of the same level. You can also run your ship a bit in the "red" on power without problems, and reactor overload is always a useful program. As a plus, with low-level reactors there is less to fear by running Reactor Overload 4 and decaying it a bit, as it can be easily replaced.
From Durik_Lakmor
Know your ships advantages/disadvantages when considering what to put where.
Just because you can squeeze a level 8 gun on an A-wing doesn't mean you should if it means sacrficing speed.
I'd like to add that on weapons, dealing with not so much mass as other, refire rate > damage imho.
Also consider having 2 sets of equipment for an all-around fighter such as the x-wing, i have higher firepower for dogfighting but more defense for capital ships and such that i swap between.
From Caile Sathinor,
Managing mass is incredibly dependant upon you knowing your preferred style of flying. One person may prefer a lightly armed, fast, maneuverable ship to a heavily armed, less maneuverable ship. Others may like a balance between the two. Maybe another likes heavy shields and armor, but less weapon power. It's completely dependant for style of flight.
Using myself as an example, I prefer 2 different configurations:
Configuration A - Heavy weapons, powerful engine, light shields and armor, powerful booster. This is a good solid strike ship, capable of doing insane amounts of damage in a quick amount of time. Examples of chassis I'd use: Krayt Gunship or TIE Oppressor.
Configuration B - Light weapons, powerful engine, heavy shields/armor, powerful booster. This is a good "distraction" craft. You're the sucker who runs in guns blazing to confuse the person you're attacking with your weak ineffectual laser fire while your Config A buddies come in and pound it to dirt.
Tip on reactors:
Fit your reactor to your loadout. Don't fit your loadout to your reactor. Load your ship up the way you want, then try to fit a reactor to it. Leave leeway in power output for programs like cap/weapon/engine overload, but try to fit it as close as possible. A 16k mass 37k reactor is just waste in something the size of a Dunelizard.
From PhatMadness,
1)If you can use RE'd parts, do so. In almost all cases, loot components will have better overall statistics than crafted, and when RE'd properly, can have a lower mass as well. A very good example of this is the level 8 reward gun. By itself, this gun has magnificent damage and energy per shot , but the mass and shield/armor effectiveness are poor. With patience, you can create a component that is very strong for its mass, by RE'ing it. This gun does larger DPS than a crafted level 9 gun, even with a speed upgrade, and will have mass up to 6-8k lower. In short, a ship outfitted with all crafted components is a poor ship.
2)Choose the primary focus of your fighting style, and exploit it through your equipment. If you are a missile slinger, then your ordinance should be the highest level and should pack the best ammo you can find. If you're a hit and run fighter, you can do with a lower damage weapon and a higher level engine. If you don't use missiles, don't load them on your chassis. Everything else should be secondary/support to your primary equipment and does not need to be high quality necessarily.
3)You may not need armor on your ship at all! Some might say this is dangerous, but with the right chassis (ie Interceptor, Awing) and a strong engine, the situation should never get to a point where your shields are gone. Especially with Shield Shunt as an available option, you should have no problem evading long enough to at least partially recharge before diving back in. Armor plating is very heavy, and if you see when you fight that your armor never gets dented, take it out and free up the mass for an upgrade to something else. Your components have built in armor HP that is used before they are damaged, so you still have a small buffer in that.
4.Always make room for a chaff launcher. This component is relatively low mass, and will save your life time and again. Tier V missiles HURT, and if you get locked on in PvP, the fight is over unless you can drop a countermeasure.
From VemaGara,
- The way to learn the true value of parts is to compare, compare, and compare some more. - When building a ship, you won't get it right on the first try. Look at your ship's weaknesses and your play style. This will tell you what is important. If you don't get shot much in your style of play, you can give up shields in favor of more firepower. The more that you play in your style, the more you will know the value of each component. - Bigger is not better. It's just bigger. - Two light guns are almost always a better value than one big gun.
3. Example Ship Configurations
From CNevyn,
B'wing Parts list Reactor: 19.9 Mass 16.2 Gen Mark IV, lvl 7 Engine: 24.7 Mass, 1.5 Drain, 73.4 PYR, 92.9 Max. RE'd. Shield: 24.3 Mass 2.0K drain, 2.5 F/B, 13.58 Regen. Lvl 8 - RE’d Armor: Ft: 4.7K mass, 612 HP, 612 AP. Mass. lvl 5 Rear: 6.0K mass, 1320 HP, 1320 AP. lvl 6. RE’d Cap: 28K mass, 1K drain, 1.1K cap, 46.5 regen. RE'd, lvl 8 Boost: 8.1K, 491 drain, 1.8K energy, consumption rate: 156.1, recharge: 48.7, Accel: 38.5, top bost: 29.2, lvl 6 RE’d DI: 1.36K mass, 476 drain. 12.8 speed, lvl 9 Weap 1 14.6K mass, 2.4K drain, 13.8-2.8K damage. .72 vs shield, .24 vs armor 23.5 energy/shot, .34 refire *crafted* troco weap 2 14.6K mass, 2.3K drain, 13.8-2.8K damage. .24 vs shield, .72 vs armor 23.5 energy/shot, .34 refire *crafted* troco weap 3 25.6K mass, 2.2K drain, 2.5-3.87K damage, .66 vs shield/armor 13.4 energy/shot, .37 refire, lvl 8 RE’d weap 4 4.0K mass, 1.8K drain, 940-1325 dam. .65 vs shield/armor 24.7 energy/shot, ..4 refire, lvl 4 RE'd (threw this on jus' 'cause it was handy) Ord 1 MK III Concussion, 5.6K mass Ord 2 MK III Proton, 6.4K mass Mass: 200861 / 239304 38.4K available Engine and Cap were RE'd previously. This round I did the shields (YAY!), booster, weapon 3, and tossed that RE'd lvl 4 on in place of a junk lvl 3. I was shy on loot armor as well as weapons. Generally I like to get 3-6 more parts of the same level for a set before having them RE'd, so I have a better selection. I got impatient on the lvl 8 gun, only had 7 of them, but I had a good set so traded for the 8th. I intend to upgrade weap1 & weap2 as I aquire more lvl 8 guns. In the mean time I'm light enough now I can add heavier armor and/or trade out the missile tubes for a pair of space bomb launchers. (which was my origional intention.) I shaved off 26K in mass RE'ing the shields, boosters & guns, even while upgrading a few comps.
From Vegitaa's Screaming Vengence post,
Here are the stats on Screaming Vengeance TIE Intercepter Flown by Captain Vegitaa Gaiden Lieutant in command < Money Makers > ISS Squadron
Main Reactor KUAT RE'ed lvl 4 Mass 3689.1 Generation Rate 12287.5
Engine Level 6 reward (Not RE'ed yet) mass 13765.9 Top Speed 79.0 YPR 63.2
Shield Level 7 mass 14642.7 Front/Back 10000.0/1734.8 recharge rate 12.0
Front armour level 2 mass 1042.9 armour 162.5/162.5
Rear armour level 1 mass 890.3 armour 102.3/102.3
Capacitor Level 4 RE'ed mass 3254.5 energy 1000.0/942.2 recharge 40.2
Booster level 4 RE'ed mass 3245.6 acceleration 34.5 top speed 26.0
Droid interface level 1 re'ed mass 433.4 speed 16.4
TomoRainer's PVP Ship (Taken from Vegitaa's Post),
Anyway, to get sorta back on topic, here's the Interceptor I have set up for PVP and helping people on missions, the Scalpel I:
Totals: 50074/50333 mass, 11104/11524 energy. I crafted the reactor, shield, armors, booster, missile launcher, and countermeasure specifically for this ship, which occasionally meant dropping unnecessary performance (in the case of the reactor, for instance) for the sake of a small but critical amount of extra mass.
KardenTyrell's Epsiolon Patron One (Tie Interceptor),
Mark 2 Fusion Reactor
Mass 3208.6 Reactor Reg. 13163.9
Cygnus "Megadrive" Starship Engine(reward)
mass 13764.9 Pitch Rate Max 63.2 Yaw Rate Max 63.2 Roll Rate Max 63.2
Engine Top Speed 79.0
Mark 3 Deflector Shield Generator
Mass 6803.7
Front/Back Hitp. 1225.9 Shield Recharge 8.01
Incom Improved Mark 1 Rebel Capacitor(loot) (Yes, I feel dirty...I need a bath )
Mass 1775.4 Cap. Energy 806.9 Recharge Rate 37.8
Kuat Drive Yard Mark1 "Governor" Droid Interface(loot)
mass 902.7 Droid Command Speed 36.0
Sienar Design Systems "Bolt Driver" (loot)
Mass 21840.5 Damage 1910.2-2953.6 V Shield/Armor .500 Energy/shot 27.2 Refire Rate 0.340
Further submissions are appreciated.
NOTE: This is the cleaned up official guide of my earlier thread.
Very nice compilation. Don't forget the Kihraxz when it comes to light fighters, though. I think it could be very effective, even if the 40K mass pushes a lot of people toward the Dunelizard.
The number one rule of mass management, I think, is to know your fighter's role and prioritize its parts around that. Light fighters just don't have the mass to be treated as a multirole ship, so you need to analyze the one or three components that will be most crucial to the given job, then maximize those at the expense of everything else.
For instance, if you're planning on taking on gunboats and capital ships, you'll probably want to maximize your shields and weapons and then see what you can do for an engine and armor. If you're going for PVP, build your ship around the best possible engine, with secondary emphases on shields and then weapons, and ensure you have a chaff launcher. If you're going for PVE dogfighting, weapons come first, then your engine, then your shields.
Everything else is a luxury. Even in the necessary items, the reactor and capacitor, don't take anything that gives you any more performance than you need. Try a crafted level 1 reactor with RO4 before you even think about anything heavier. See if an RE'd level 2 capacitor will fit the bill--there shouldn't be a light fighter around that can drain a good one faster than it will recharge. There's no reason to use heavier, they'll just take away from more important parts.
For other near necessities, boosters, droid interfaces, and armor, weigh the usefulness of upgrading against the increase in mass. You probably have no need for a booster beyond a level 1 crafted, level 2 looted, or level 4 reward. A level 3 or 5 DI might be nice, and for PVE the ability to use cap to shield shunt more often might justify it, but start off with a level 1. When it comes to armor, 1K mass at level 1 is almost definitely worth the 250-300 HP it'll provide, but think hard about whether you really need to use 2.5K on 650 HP or 6K on 1175. At that point, you're probably better off spending the mass on upgrading your shields, or your weapons, or your engine.
When it comes to countermeasures and ordnance, I would always fly with a level 1 chaff launcher. It's a necessity in PVP and probably worth its 1K mass for PVE. Missile launchers I would discourage for PVE (though they can be useful at nailing Vette parts) and PVP, but don't rule them out entirely. They're a nice addition if you can find a way to spare the mass.
Even when you're maximizing your most important parts, it can be useful to trim off a bit of performance if it'll free up the space for something small but worth the sacrifice. For instance, a level 7 shield was necessary for my PVP Interceptor, but I decided to sacrifice 125 or so HP from front and back to experiment its mass down by 3K, the equivalent of two level 1 armors and a level 1 booster, or half the Image-Rec launcher I chose to make a critical component. If you're in an Advanced with two level 7 guns, say, you might think about dropping one down to a level 6; it'll clear up 3-6K mass easy with only a minor drop in firepower.
This got a lot longer than I intended, but I think if you visualize your light fighter as a set of one to four critical components surrounded by the most basic essentials, it will become much easier to keep your mass within the rigid limits of your ship.
I also recommend Harotak's recent guide for a part-by-part analysis of a light fighter's components.
Message Edited by TomoRainer on 02-28-200510:59 PM
Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent
I REed my level 8 reward shield from 43k down to 28k mass and through it in my Xwing. shows what good REing can do
mine re'd to 25k mass and fits in my a-wing along with the lvl8 reward gun and the lvl6 reward engine. those three parts alone use up about 60k mass, leaving 5k for the reactor, booster, capacitor, and droid interface. THAT is how you manage mass.
Your engine, shield, and guns are the only parts that really matter. everything else is there to support those three components, and you should not use anything more than you need. im considering dropping down to a lvl1 capacitor and booster so i can fit a counter launcher (got smoked last night by a opp with triple image-rec mkII launchers, first time ive died in months).
____________________________ Starsider: Harotak, Imperial Ace, pilot of the RGI "No Quarter" and the "ISS Enforcer" Katorah, Corsec Security forces, Captian of "The Unrelenting Harotak', Rebel Terrorist
Tips for managing mass and maximizing your ship's effectiveness:
1)If you can use RE'd parts, do so. In almost all cases, loot components will have better overall statistics than crafted, and when RE'd properly, can have a lower mass as well. A very good example of this is the level 8 reward gun. By itself, this gun has magnificent damage and energy per shot , but the mass and shield/armor effectiveness are poor. With patience, you can create a component that is very strong for its mass, by RE'ing it. This gun does larger DPS than a crafted level 9 gun, even with a speed upgrade, and will have mass up to 6-8k lower. In short, a ship outfitted with all crafted components is a poor ship.
2)Choose the primary focus of your fighting style, and exploit it through your equipment. If you are a missile slinger, then your ordinance should be the highest level and should pack the best ammo you can find. If you're a hit and run fighter, you can do with a lower damage weapon and a higher level engine. If you don't use missiles, don't load them on your chassis. Everything else should be secondary/support to your primary equipment and does not need to be high quality necessarily.
3)You may not need armor on your ship at all! Some might say this is dangerous, but with the right chassis (ie Interceptor, Awing) and a strong engine, the situation should never get to a point where your shields are gone. Especially with Shield Shunt as an available option, you should have no problem evading long enough to at least partially recharge before diving back in. Armor plating is very heavy, and if you see when you fight that your armor never gets dented, take it out and free up the mass for an upgrade to something else. Your components have built in armor HP that is used before they are damaged, so you still have a small buffer in that.
4.Always make room for a chaff launcher. This component is relatively low mass, and will save your life time and again. Tier V missiles HURT, and if you get locked on in PvP, the fight is over unless you can drop a countermeasure.
Titan Arms & Armory Kegel Titrelac Glow-stick Swinger | Imperial Ace Pilot -Meraxes- Master Armorsmith|Master Shipwright|Alliance Ace Pilot Wraithe Master Carbineer | 0400 BH | Goin for 9 Pilot Badges :-p Vendors located in Liberty Ridge, Naboo
I tend to fly different ships for specific missions. Each one is optimized to its mission profiles.
I run an X-Wing armed for bear for fighter missions and a Y Longprobe that is armored like a tank for strike missions.
The Y is my preferred for capital ships/gunboats. It's kind of a pig for maneuverability, but the loadout of missiles, heavy punch weapons and countermeasures means it can take a pounding while locked on the target of interest and just tear parts off in a single pass.
I've been very interested in the RE'd parts portion of this. I had a friend who was going shipwright and has stopped playing, so I quit worrying about it. I can see I'm going to have make a friend among the shipwrights for components.
Thanks much to all you guys for your input. I learn something every time I read posts here.
When scraping for mass, there are two items I have found recently that are perfect for consideration.
Level1 crafted reactors and level2 crafted DIs.
It's pretty easy for a SW to make a 10k+ reactor that weighs less than 1k mass, and thats usually more than enough for light fighters, even some 2-3 gun ships with proper overloads.
Regarding DIs, I thought for the longest time crafted couldnt compete, until I tested the low end. You can save 1-2k mass and still get a decent speed, when compared to modern loots. Most of my discussions here relate to post-nerf gear, so that it's acessible to any pilot.
Another DI consideration is the potential of using a "bootup" unit. You can save more mass by using a slow DI, if all you use it for is to run overloads, and you have a bit of patience after launch. DI speed is important for tactical programs like CtSS and shield adjustments, less so for Overloading.
I want to say it again because it's very important:
Pay more attention to the numbers than the level of your part! The next higher level does not automatically make for a better item.
- The way to learn the true value of parts is to compare, compare, and compare some more. - When building a ship, you won't get it right on the first try. Look at your ship's weaknesses and your play style. This will tell you what is important. If you don't get shot much in your style of play, you can give up shields in favor of more firepower. The more that you play in your style, the more you will know the value of each component. - Bigger is not better. It's just bigger. - Two light guns are almost always a better value than one big gun.
Dr. Vema Gara Master Doctor, Master Fencer Imperial Ace (solo), Imperial Inquisition Valcyn (Sophitia, Trinidad on Test)
