OK, like many of the pilots here, this is not my first space sim, so although some parts of JtL were challenging for me (Good Job Devs!) I found it fairly straightforward and tbh one space sim is as good as another, insofar as mechanics of space flight go.
We do, however, have many many pilots who are having a great deal of trouble with it, and I'd like to start by saying:
It's Normal!
Don't be discouraged! Instead take the time to learn.
The first step in that direction is knowing what you need to do.
(I'm not talking about missions, but flight mechanics, the how-to's).
I will try to stay away from controllers and controller-specific tactics, since there are 4 types of controls, and stick to the things that apply to all.
You *must* learn to think in three dimensions. This is not a car or a motorcycle or a speeder. By the same token, it's SPACE, so each axis is replaceable by the other - meaning up is always relative to you, not the ground. So you can spin, turn, 'dive', climb, whatever... up is always up. So, as the saying goes, 'think outside the box', and understand that though some rules apply (inertia for example) others don't (like gravity).
So then, learning to control your ship - alone.
Customize your controls if you have to, but set yourself up in such a way as to have access to all the most important controls without looking (and eventually without thought) regardless of controller of choice. These include:
Thrust/decelerate
Boosters
Yaw
Pitch
Roll
Fire Primary
Fire Secondary
Fire Countermeasures
Targetting options
Once you have the controls configured, you need to learn to combine your motion. Not much different than driving a car or a bicycle at first. To start with, flying in a straight line is easy, but turning 180 degrees takes time, correct? It's like a long, sweeping highway turn. You simply can't turn quickly... so do as you would in a car -> slow down. In the case of JtL, the *optimum* turn speed seems to be between 1/3 and 1/2 of your maximum. Once you reach the apex of the turn, as you would in a car or a bike, accelerate. You will see your ship 'snap' out of the turn.
Want to turn even faster? Slow down, and do the following all at once: Turn right; Climb; Torque Right; then Accelerate at the apex. You should have turned much much more quickly. That is because you're turning on 3 axis, not just one.
Now, notice though that your ship seemed to slide when you tried to turn? Yes, that's inertia. Things like to keep on doing what they're already doing... you might want to turn, but your ship didn't. It's trying to keep going where it was going. You need to account for this when you plan your turns, and it will apply more later as you gain skill. It can be used as a tactic all on its own.... You CAN however reduce it -- by applying extra force. So once you get *close* to the end of your turn, slap your Boosters on, and you'll have countered your inertia nicely. Very useful, those boosters...
You now have the *basic* principles of space flight!
Learning to fly your ship.... intermediate techniques
Alright, so you can fly your ship and turn quickly... what does that give you? Well, that's all there is to flying, when you get right down to it. Oh there are advanced maneuvers like sliding rolls, barrel rolls, looped rolls... but they all are a variation on a turn. Now you're going to learn how to apply some of these concepts in three dimensions.
Anticipation! OK, so you see a ship and he's red and he's coming straight for you!! What to do!? Well, don't panic. You have power in the form of knowledge.
You know he's going to shoot at you from head on
You know he's going to try to turn faster than you to do it again
You know if he can he'll try to get behind you and sit on your tail.
So what do you do about it? Well, first of all, your best defense is not to get hit. Make yourself a VERY difficult target. This is best accomplished by a tight spiral. To do this (practice on some stationary object first), you need to roll, turn, and lift all at once. Preferably not 100% of any... more about 35-50% of each except roll. Basically, lift about half, right about half, and roll left about half. With an oncoming ship, he should be (relative to you) sitting about 1/2-way to one side or corner of your screen until you're almost ready to pass him. Properly done, you can watch his laser shots fly by you one behind the other... a pretty lights display
What's next? Well, you're already turning! so when your opponent is nearly at the point of passing you, drop the throttle, reduce the roll, and turn to his tail. You have a strong advantage here - you're turning, he's not -- it's a guarantee it will take him longer to turn than it did you!
Once you are on his tail... it can get tricky. He's going to try to shake you... so you need to make sure he can't. AI is good for this. If you let him get too far ahead, he'll turn on you and you're right back where you started - nose to nose. However, if you can get in close enough, fast enough... he won't. He'll just try to turn and hope you give up. So how do you do that? Well, the Boosters, to start, to make sure you get moving quick... but now we have to start thinking in 3d, and not just *fly at something*.
If you fly towards the lead indicator right off, you are going to set yourself up for an intercept course - putting you ahead of him. Since he is already turning and partway turned towards you, you would then be making it EASIER for him to get away from you. So, you need to choose a direction about 1/3 the distance between the leader and his ship -- BEHIND him. By doing this, you're re-opening that 180 degree angle you want and making it impossible for him to turn on you. Anything he can do... so can you. Once the distance is closed, and the angle is closed... creep up your nose at him until you're at the leader. EASY, Gentle adjustments. Don't *jerk* at it. Just take your time, and get a solid steady aim.
FIRE! Shoot that crosshair! You may have to adjust your exact location in the crosshairs, gently... if you're missing, STOP SHOOTING. Get a steady spot you think will hit, and try again. Notice where you miss... too far, close behind, off to one side... and adjust a little accordingly. You'll find your sweet spot. Remember too that while too close is very tough to hit, otherwise the closer the better. To me, optimum range is about 75 to 100 meters. For others they prefer to shoot from 150-200. Just be close enough he can't turn on you, and you can find your own *sweet spot*.
Mutliple Targets!!!
Don't Panic!!! Habitually, in a wing of 3 opponents, they will come at you as a wing, in formation, until after the pass. So, the same spiral maneuver will save your forward shields, and the same rules apply for turning about. What to do after you turn? Typically, one will break off to try to draw you - usually whichever you decided (or the auto-targetter did) to target first. Don't let him. Stick with the pair. As a matter of fact, take the leader of the pair. Two in front that can't shoot you and one behind is far preferable to 1 in front and 2 shooting at your back.... DISABLE. One behind the other. The commands for that are [ and ] to target the engine or reactor. Just disable them, then sweep out for the third. If you feel you are in too tight of a spot, or the 2nd also breaks, you can always change targets.
Do not get glued on one target if the others are behind you! I can't stress that enough. If the other targets are hitting you, then break off, unless you are sure you can handle it. Break off, and execute some maneuvers. The Spiral will work just as well when the enemy is behind as it does when he's in front. It will also let them catch up to you. Wonder why that's a good thing? Because when they get close enough, you can execute the 180 degree turn you learned earlier twice in a row, and that will put them right in front of you. Pick one, follow it, disable it, and move on to the next target. Fighting in space can be much like a sport - you need to formulate a strategy, and adjust it as you go. Sometimes there's overtime, just dig in and prepare for the ride.
Don't get caught in the single-leader trap. What that basically means is that while you are shooting at the ship in front of you, you are at your most vulnerable to that ships wingmen. You are flying in HIS pattern, at HIS speed, in HIS turning arc. That means his wingmen can follow you exaclty and shoot you down very quickly. That means you need to be aware of your opponents positions at all times! If you think they're setting up behind you, BREAK.
Set up a safety! There is a thread somewhere here that has an excellent escape macro. When all else fails... well... RUN! It's much easier on the wallet!
There is, of course, much much more to piloting than just this, but these are the basics.
Once you get comfortable with the above, you will find yourself suddenly duplicating maneuvers you see others do, or *inventing your own* (though there's not really much that's truly new hehe) and having a great time of it.
Myself, I like to barrel roll out of a turn and slide in underneath them... I call it *dropping in un-invited*... but I know it's not original... but it sure is fun!
I hope this helps at least some people who are finding JtL challenging.
Vets of flight sims, feel free to add anything you feel I've missed that's important, or a continuation of what I started.
Seeing as no real life "flying risks" up here, use them to your advantage. No G suits here, so one killer move particularly in PVP, is a neg G turn, a roll out or break in your opening move tells a lot about you. and I have experienced a few great fights, and the best ones opened up with that, and I knew I had a good one on my hands.. Think of it as doing a forward flip roll.
Most people have a tendency to come down on a target, it is natural, works with gravity, it's a blind spot in real life and what everyone will do naturally. You tend to follow high, fight that reflex, approach from underneath when in ragne match their speed and continue doing so, so when your opponent roles out and up, most break left and up, you are already leading them. Watch your opponent in the opening volley or their approach, which way did they break or fly by. There is no way to predict any opponent, unless you have flown with them or against them time and time again. WIth this in mind, there are two characteristics about a person that translate a lot to the game. Sighting is one, and dominant hand is the other. Now, none of this is based on science, but as a small recreation aircraft pilot, I find that most times, people have a tendency to follow thier dominent hand direction, a comfort reaction. They turn better one way, role better one way. Next time your in combat, don't think about it, react to it. You will find if you are right handed, you prefer to bank left, and roll left. it is a natural tendency you also find that 90% of the time, when you engage, your turns and rolls will be based on this, and you will keep your targets on your approaching left side. Now not saying that knowing which hand your oponent writes with is important, cause it is not, but by knowing just a little about your tendancies will go miles in the right direction and also seeing patterns in other people quickly, to be one step ahead of them.
Didn't proof read, hope its coherent, send a message if ya got a question
Do not become predicfable. because someone will own you.
Tact is the Art of Making a Point, without making an Enemy
Seeing as no real life "flying risks" up here, use them to your advantage. No G suits here, so one killer move particularly in PVP, is a neg G turn, a roll out or break in your opening move tells a lot about you. and I have experienced a few great fights, and the best ones opened up with that, and I knew I had a good one on my hands.. Think of it as doing a forward flip roll.
Most people have a tendency to come down on a target, it is natural, works with gravity, it's a blind spot in real life and what everyone will do naturally. You tend to follow high, fight that reflex, approach from underneath when in ragne match their speed and continue doing so, so when your opponent roles out and up, most break left and up, you are already leading them. Watch your opponent in the opening volley or their approach, which way did they break or fly by. There is no way to predict any opponent, unless you have flown with them or against them time and time again. WIth this in mind, there are two characteristics about a person that translate a lot to the game. Sighting is one, and dominant hand is the other. Now, none of this is based on science, but as a small recreation aircraft pilot, I find that most times, people have a tendency to follow thier dominent hand direction, a comfort reaction. They turn better one way, role better one way. Next time your in combat, don't think about it, react to it. You will find if you are right handed, you prefer to bank left, and roll left. it is a natural tendency you also find that 90% of the time, when you engage, your turns and rolls will be based on this, and you will keep your targets on your approaching left side. Now not saying that knowing which hand your oponent writes with is important, cause it is not, but by knowing just a little about your tendancies will go miles in the right direction and also seeing patterns in other people quickly, to be one step ahead of them.
Didn't proof read, hope its coherent, send a message if ya got a question
Do not become predicfable. because someone will own you.
A very good point.
Most especially for PvP (where extended fights are possible), repeating the same maneuver twice in a fight is either a mistake or *suckering*... repeating it 3times is a guaranteed death certificate.
Whenever you teach yourself tactics, do not get caught in habit-forming maneuvers.
Where you know you'll be repeating yourself, (f. ex. Duty Missions), then do something a little different each time.
I'll just tack the stuff from my other thread here and let it die
1. Roll is your friend. Remember that your ship can turn on three axes. most people only use side-to-side (yaw) or up-and-down (pitch). Roll can help level the playing field. Sometimes, a quick 90-degree roll folowed by a pull back on the joystick can get you on position faster than what you might normally try, especially if your ship will pitch quickly but yaw slowly (those stats are there for a reason).
2. 100% throttle is rarely your friend in a dogfight (unless you've decided to run). I'm Rebel, so I only know our ships. For the Y-Wing, maneuverability is maximum at about 33% throttle. The X-Wing is about 50%. The S-Wing is about 85-90%. Not sure about the Z95, B-Wing or others...
3. Use specials *when you need them*. Don't throw up Emergency Shields or Engine Overload just because you just took an armor hit. Save them for desparate times. Emergency Shields can buy you the time to hyperspace, but only if you didn't use it 1 minute ago on that swarm you really could have beaten if you'd jockeyed for position a bit more.
4. My solution to the "head on" attack (when the NPC turns as fast as you do and you keep fighting head-on) is to pull a double-loop. So far, this seems to put me behind them everytime. Remember, don't ease up on the loop until you see them the second time.
5. Do as the Army does: fire in bursts. Unless you're on someone's tail, pay attention to whether your shots connect. If they don't, ease up on the trigger a bit. nothing is more annoying than finally getting behind your target and finding your capacitor is only at 25% charge and their shields are still 1/2 full.
6. Take fire from the rear only as long as is safe. If you're three shots away from blowing up your target, don't ditch because you took 2 consecutive hits to the rear. If you do so, you've gone from 1 fighter attacking you to two. Finishhim/her off if it's safe. OTOH, don't let someone drain your rear shields to zero while you try to get your target's shields down to 10%...
7. ALWAYS have countermeasures loaded...
8. Disable craft when "there's... too many of them." Use the brackets ( [ and ] ) to cycle through various components. Often, knocking your target's engines out will buy you the precious time to take on a few more. You can disable 10 targets in the time it takes to destroy 5. But don't leave a target floating there if they have weapons you can target. A Lamba-class shuttle with no engines can still hit you with its turrets.
9. Play around with the keymap (ctrl+o > Controls > Keymap). There are some useful functions not assigned under the default pattern (Target closest NPC ship, Follow target, etc)
SOE's favorite Star Wars Quote: "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further..."
Caras Galadon: Born Feb 15, 2003 : Died Dec 14, 2005 Happy-go-lucky Jedi. The last of his kind... NGE drove me to WoW. "Working as intended"?
Everything is a set range here, everything gives a warning. Get to know your ship intimately, but know your radar even more so. Once the target is in your recticle, it is important to follow its orientation, lets face it, if you cannot see it in front of you onscreen, it's position and orientation to you is key. Want to make it easy to follow? Do what i did and put your radar and your target reader right in the center top of your screen side by side. Although the "lead" indicator does not work too well, it DOES let you know if the ship is in range. If
learn to read this equipment you will not have any blind spots.
You will find most people when they cannot get beed on you will try and put some distance, then return to attack (if you remain really close at all times). Tturn into them at every possible time, turn with them, but not into their guns, just fly by's Learn to trust your instruements more then sight.. when they try to put that distance, thats when you go on the offensive. Just learning when to strike is critical.
You will find in all on single Tier 1+2 it is not easy to find a good GP weapon, but when it come right down too it, if you get a blaster, get a shield intensifier, once you cut through the shields to a ships reactor, its lights out. Once you have the ability for using mulitple weapons a good ion cannon as well as a good disrutor are great in their roles, obviously punch through shield with ion, and once through, the disruptor rips through the armor to the core. one thing to keep in mind once you can seperate weapons use speed limiters to make sure your capacitor does not get drained, the rate of fire is negligable, but running out of power once you have got a beed on someone, sux
If you are taking on a multi weapon having ship, reactor is first, no pwoer no guns. Sort of like the mind is always attacked, if your ship is motionless, you are not a threat, i can still move out of your range and attack at my leisure. or die trying to take that reactor out!
Tact is the Art of Making a Point, without making an Enemy
One other thing to take advantage of, I just experienced today that helped me, Keep your mouse handy, and use the "scroll" button to roll the view out of your ship if your being tailed. Very manverable ships can turn faster then proton torpedos. Not sure if they have a "run out of fuel range" but definaelty buys you time to use counter measures. A simple flick of the hat switch brings you right back inside if the controls are configured. Just a flying tip. Sorry for posting things you people already know, just more ideas that coem to mind, none of the vehicles have a 360 degree view. If you have trouble with the radar, try this.
Tact is the Art of Making a Point, without making an Enemy
Under the default keymap, Numpad 5 will also recenter your view to the front. This is very useful to know if you ever knock your mouse askew in the heat of battle.
Also, it's been said before, but: Don't be distracted by the shield animation on your target! This is a client side generated effect that appears when your PC "thinks" your shot should have hit, based on its local notion of where you and the target are - not what the server side knows. Damage is a server side decision! So watch for the damage animation/sound and keep an eye on your target's percentages. If they're not going down, you're not really hitting, no matter how pretty the shields are flaring.
You will also quickly find that ping time, server lag, PC and graphics card speed all have a profound effect on the green target-lead reticle. On a typical live server, on a typical PC, at anything other than dead behind or dead ahead of your target, you need to shoot a bit "behind the green." On a real tight turn attack where the green dot leads the target by a lot, I might shoot 1/3 of the distance back. Even closer to the enemy's "six" I will still touch the trailing || vane.
Oh, and here's something else. When you graduate to a ship with two load points for weapons, put one with a high Shield effectiveness in Group 1, and one with a high Armor effectiveness in Group 2. When you attack, hammer away with 1 until the shields are down, then switch to 2. You will get much more bang for your capacitor buck.
Torque is another word for Twist, or yes, "roll" right in this case, though I don't use the word "roll" for a reason: To roll right you would need to "lift" and "twist" right, so saying "roll" would cause confusion.
Twist and Torque are interchangeable - where twist is your ship rotating like it was on a stick from nose to rear.
Getting Behind a Target:
You're right, unless your target flies in a straight line, you can never *truly* be right behind them. Imagine a long, sweeping turn on the highway... you are directly behind the car in front of you, but he's as you pointed out -> fore and to one side... but you're following the same path. So, you actually are behind him... just not pointing at him.
Once you get in to that position, slow down a little, If you know your circles a little, you realise that the outside of the circle moves faster than the inside. So going just a little slower, you can turn a circle inside his, and always be pointing in the direction you need to be to shoot him.
If you find yourself on the same plane (as in your second diagram {me target}) then you could still accomplish that, but you'll probably find it easier if you twist just enough to get him on a 45 degree angle, as per your first diagram, so that you can hold 2 axis instead of just one.
(It's late, and I really hope I'm not confusing you).
__________
If you're slowing down and still can't get behind your target, there's a few things that are or could be happening:
1. You aren't turning soon enough. You already know he's going to keep coming dead-on, you don't need to wait until he's past to start turning.
2. He's moving way faster than you are. That's fine too, just start your turn earlier, and hit your boosters coming out so you can get behind him quicker.
3. You aren't following through. Basically this means you're slowing down and doing the turn, and then just expecting your target to be in front of you. While that would be ideal, your target doesn't want to be in front of you just as much as you don't want to be in front of him.
Don't think that there's anything wrong with that; as a matter of habit I constantly catch myself expecting my target to be *right there* after I come about, and sometimes it just isn't... yet other times it's *right on the money*...
As I said before, you must remain flexible, and try to anticipate what your opponent is going to do next, and counter it.
The most common error is #1, even from experienced pilots.
If there's anything I can clarify for you, feel free to continue asking questions, and I'll do my best to explain it better, If I can't do it here, I'll make a char on the server of your choice and try to do it in person.
Decrease throttle to (1/3 to 1/2 ) until halfway into the turn
then
Increase throttle to 90%
Once you see your enemy if he is more than 225m away, hit the afterburners to get behind him.
If he is also already turned, instead start to repeat the turn you just performed - don't wait for him to be passing you. Your acceleration out of the turn should co-incide nicely with his passing, to put you *right* on his tail.
