Ataho’s Guide to Jedi Crafting

This guide is to help clarify some issue regarding crafting and experimentation on 4th generation double bladed lightsaber. I have long been puzzled as to why I got different force cost at the same displayed percentage. So my good AS buddy and I set out to solve the mystery.

Section 1: Basic facts about crafting

I want to start out this guide by presenting the basic facts about crafting.

Crafting tool: The functionality rating on the crafting tools have no affect on the assembly percentages and their effect to higher succes rate for great or amazing succes is questionable. Same thing goes for crafting stations.

Foods: Using Bespin Port and Pyollian Cake does increase the chances for better assembly and experimental rolls.

Force Sensitive skills: The FS trees - Experimentation, Assembly and Technique have to my knowledge not been thorouhtly tested.

Research Center: Any experimentation done within a 'Research Center' is enhanced. A 15% bonus to the final result roll is added during the experimentation phase of crafting

Manufacturing Center: Crafting done in a 'Manufacturing Center' earns a 10% bonus to prototype assembly results, significantly reducing the chance of failures

Crystal Packs: They have no stats and are therefore not affecting the crafting proces - if you get a good succes or an amazing will not affect the stats on the saber. The crystal packs cannot be manufactured in factories, so its all manual crafting work:-) Have 4-6 saber crafting tools and use a crafting macro to speed up the production proces.

Section 2: Weighted average:

To reveal the mystery abour crafitng and why you get different stats at the same experimental percentages on two different crafting sessions. You first have to calculate the weighted average for each single stat line. Since Estei and Me found out that the displayed percentage for assembly and experimentation is an average of each line meaning that the displayed percentages for Experimental Damage is the average for Speed, Min, Max and Wound Chance. Same thing goes for Experimental Efficeincy which is the average of Health, Action, Mind and Force Cost.

To calculate the displayed assembly percentage you need to know the weighted average of all the available lines and then divide that number by four. And knowing the percentages for each line is very important since using some resouces that gives you and better displayed percentages might not be the best a single line.

The formulas for calculating the weighted average of the resources and their assembly and max experimentation percentages are found in former posts, which are linked at the bottom of this post.

The weighted average of the Health, Action, Mind and Force Cost lines gives the displayed Experimental Efficiency percentage.

The equations in section 2.1 -2.4 are used for calculating the weighted average for each line.

Section 2.1: Min/Max Damage and Force cost - 33% CD / 66% OQ:

Overall Quality 66%:

OQ1: Material 1 Overall Quality
n1: Number of Material 1 required in schematic
OQ2: Material 2 Overall Quality
n2: Number of Material 2 required in schematic
OQ3: Material 3 Overall Quality
n3: Number of Material 3 required in schematic
OQ4: Material 4 Overall Quality
n4: Number of Material 4 required in schematic
OQ5: Material 5 Overall Quality
n5: Number of Material 5 required in schematic


( ((OQ1*n1) + (OQ2*n2) + (OQ3*n3) + (OQ4*n4) + (OQ5*n5)) ) = weighted average OQ
______________________________________________________
(n1+n2+n3+n4+n5)
_______________________________________________
( 2/3 )

Conductivity 33%:

CD1: Material 1 Conductivity
n1: Number of Material 1 required in schematic
CD2: Material 2 Conductivity
n2: Number of Material 2 required in schematic
CD3: Material 3 Conductivity
n3: Number of Material 3 required in schematic


(( ((CD1*n1) + (CD2*n2) + (CD3*n3)) ) = weighted average CD
____________________________________
(n1+n2+n3)
_____________________________________
( 1/3 )



To get the weighted average for Min/Max Damage and Force cost you add up the numbers for Overall Quality and Conductivity.

Weighted average OQ + weighted average CD = weighted average Min/Max Damage and Force cost

Section 2.2: Health, Action and Mind cost - 100% OQ:

Overall Quality 100%:

OQ1: Material 1 Overall Quality
n1: Number of Material 1 required in schematic
OQ2: Material 2 Overall Quality
n2: Number of Material 2 required in schematic
OQ3: Material 3 Overall Quality
n3: Number of Material 3 required in schematic
OQ4: Material 4 Overall Quality
n4: Number of Material 4 required in schematic
OQ5: Material 5 Overall Quality
n5: Number of Material 5 required in schematic


( ((OQ1*n1) + (OQ2*n2) + (OQ3*n3) + (OQ4*n4) + (OQ5*n5)) ) = Weighted average OQ
________________________________________________________
(n1+n2+n3+n4+n5)



Weighted average OQ = weighted average Health, Action and Mind cost

Section 2.3: Wound chance - 50% SR / 50% UT:

Shock Resistance 50%:

SR1: Material 1 Shock Resistance
n1: Number of Material 1 required in schematic
SR2: Material 2 Shock Resistance
n2: Number of Material 2 required in schematic
SR3: Material 3 Shock Resistance
n3: Number of Material 3 required in schematic
SR4: Material 4 Shock Resistance
n4: Number of Material 4 required in schematic


( ((SR1*n1) + (SR2*n2) + (SR3*n3) + (SR4*n4)) ) = Weighted average SR
_____________________________________________
(n1+n2+n3+n4)
_____________________________________
( 1/2 )

Unit Toughness 50%:

UT1: Material 1 Unit Toughness
n1: Number of Material 1 required in schematic
UT2: Material 2 S Unit Toughness
n2: Number of Material 2 required in schematic
UT3: Material 3 Unit Toughness
n3: Number of Material 3 required in schematic
UT4: Material 4 Unit Toughness
n4: Number of Material 4 required in schematic


( ((UT1*n1) + (UT2*n2) + (UT3*n3) + (UT4*n4)) ) = Weighted average UT
_____________________________________________
(n1+n2+n3+n4)
_____________________________________
( 1/2 )


Weighted average SR + weighted average UT = Weighted average Wound Chance

Section 2.4: Speed – 50% CD / 50% OQ:

Overall Quality 50%

OQ1: Material 1 Overall Quality
n1: Number of Material 1 required in schematic
OQ2: Material 2 Overall Quality
n2: Number of Material 2 required in schematic
OQ3: Material 3 Overall Quality
n3: Number of Material 3 required in schematic
OQ4: Material 4 Overall Quality
n4: Number of Material 4 required in schematic
OQ5: Material 5 Overall Quality
n5: Number of Material 5 required in schematic



(( ((OQ1*n1) + (OQ2*n2) + (OQ3*n3) + (OQ4*n4) ) + (OQ5*n5)) ) = Weighted average OQ
_________________________________________________________
(n1+n2+n3+n4+n5)
_____________________________________
( 1/2 )



Conductivity 50%:

CD1: Material 1 Conductivity
n1: Number of Material 1 required in schematic
CD2: Material 2 Conductivity
n2: Number of Material 2 required in schematic
CD3: Material 3 Conductivity
n3: Number of Material 3 required in schematic


( ((CD1*n1) + (CD2*n2) + (CD3*n3)) ) = Weighted average CD
____________________________________
(n1+n2+n3)
_____________________________________
( 1/2 )


Weighted average CD + weighted average OQ = Weighted average Speed

Section 3 – Overall displayed Assembly

So now you have all the weighted averages for finding the displayed assembly percentage.

To find the displayed assembly percentage for Experimentation Damage you add the weighted average of speed, Min/Max DMG and Wound Chance and divide that number by four.


(Weighted average Speed + Weighted average Min dmg + Weighted average Max dmg + Weighted average Wound chance)/4 = Weighted average Experimental Damage = X (for short)


The same thing is done for health, action, mind and force cost.


(Weighted average Health + Weighted average Action + Weighted average Mind + Weighted average Force Cost)/4 = Weighted average Experimental Efficiency = Y (for short)


This number, X or Y, is used in the following equation found in the AS little helpers post (link at the bottom).

(X*(0,000015*X+0,015)) = displayed assembly percentage for Experimental Damage.

(Y*(0,000015*Y+0,015)) = displayed assembly percentage for Experimental Efficiency

The maximum experimental percentage possible is simply X or Y/10 = max exp.

Section 4 – Single line Assembly

As you may notice it’s an average of the four lines that is displayed, so each individual line can be either greater or lesser than the displayed. To find the assembly and max percentages for a single line just use its weighted average in the above equations.


Assembly:

(Weighted average Speed*(0,000015* Weighted average Speed +0,015)) = Assembly percentage for speed only.


Max experimentation:

(Weighted average Speed/10) = Max experimentation percentages for speed only.

Section 5 – Experimentation
When you have calculated all the assembly percentages for each line you can figur out the possible percentages after any given points spend in experimentation. Each point spend in experimentation can either give you a great succes or amazing succes (have yet to see any other - might be different for non-MLS). A great succes gives a 7% increase to the experimentation percentage and an amazing succes gives an 8% increase.

Now, you have probably all seen an 8% increase in the displayed percentages on a great succes. Reason - the experimentation roll is separate for each line, so you could have two lines with 8% and two with 7%. Since the displayed percentages is the average of all four lines the increase is only 7,5% and only 7% should have been shown...however added to a 24,6% assembly percentages and the displayed increase is 8% even though you only got a great succes on experimentation.

I have also tried the other thing - getting an amazing succss on experimentation and only get a 7% increase. Same thing is happening as above. You may only get one line of amazing succes and three lines of great succes. The accumlated percentages isn't enought to get an increase by 8%.

I have yet to figur which line is the one shown as an amazing succes.

As how to spend your experimentation points in order to make the best possible saber I woyld suggest using 9 in Experimental Efficiancy and 1 point in Experimental Damage. Reason is that the hidden decimals on the force cost is counted then using specials, so a 7/3 point saber is using just a little bit more force powers than a 9/1 point saber.

Section 6 – Crafting example

To demonstrate the equations I use the following resources:

Duralloy steel : Skisref - 611 CD 974 OQ 943 SR 992 UT
Titanium aluminium : Vepacis - 382 CD 921 391 SR 325 UT
Polymer : Iose - 993 OQ 785 SR 982 UT
Culsion Inert Gas : Moilekit - 942 OQ
Polysteel copper : Aloiam - 969 CD 980 OQ 787 SR 776 UT

Using the above equations for weighted average you get the following assembly percentages.

UPDATE: To tired of all the numbers? Download a 4th Generation Double Bladed Lightsaber stat calculator Lightsaber calculator

Experimental Damage Assembly:
Speed: 23,26%
Min: 24,93%
Max: 24,93%
Wound: 20,76%

(23,26% + 24,93% + 24,93% + 20,76%)/4 = 23,47% = Displayed percentage = 23 %

Experimental Efficiency Assembly:
Health: 28,42%
Action: 28,42%
Mind: 28,42%
Force cost: 24,93%

(28,42% + 28,42% + 28,42% + 24,93%)/4 = 27,54% = Displayed percentage = 27 %

Since force cost is the most important and the most puzzling, the 27% displayed can really throw you off since there is almost a 3% difference between the displayed assembly percentage and actual percentage for the Forcec Cost line in this example. This is the reason why you can have different Force Cost at the same displayed percentages and other stats for that matter:-)

The max experimentation for this example is:

Experimental Damage MAX:
Speed: 84,19%
Min: 88,27%
Max: 88,27%
Wound: 78,08%

(84,19% + 88,27% + 88,27% + 78,08%)/4 = 84,7% = Displayed percentage = 84 %

Experimental Efficiency MAX:
Health: 96,44%
Action: 96,44%
Mind: 96,44%
Force cost: 88,27%

(96,44% + 96,44% + 96,44% + 88,27%)/4 = 94,39% = Displayed percentage = 94 %

Section 7 – Crafting charts

From these equations I have been able to map the cut-off percentages for double bladed 4th generation lightsaber.

Experimental Damage:
Speed:
5,0 0,0 - 49,9%
4,9 50 - 74,9%
4,8 75 - 99,9%


Min Damage:
225 0,0 - 9,9%
226 10 - 19,9%
227 20 - 29,9%
228 30 - 39,9%
229 40 - 49,9%
330 50 - 59,9%
331 60 - 69,9%
332 70 - 79,9%
233 80 - 89,9%
234 90 - 99,9%

Max damage:
305 0 - 4,9%
306 5 - 9,9%
307 10 - 14,9%
308 15 - 19,9%
309 20 - 24,9%
310 25 - 29,9%
311 30 - 34,9%
312 35 - 39,9%
313 40 - 44,9%
314 45 - 49,9%
315 50 - 54,9%
316 55 - 59,9%
317 60 - 64,9%
318 65 - 69,9%
319 70 - 74,9%
320 75 - 79,9%
321 80 - 84,9%
322 85 - 89,9%
323 90 - 94,9%
324 95 - 99,9%

Wound chance: 0.25 pr. %
25,00 0%
26,25 5,0%
27,50 10,0%
28,75 15,0%
30,00 20,0%
31,25 25,0%
32,50 30,0%
33,75 35,0%
35,00 40,0%
36,25 45,0%
37,50 50,0%
38,75 55,9%
40,00 60,0%
41,25 65,0%
42,50 70,5%
43,75 75,0%
44,50 (My resource cap) 80,0%
44,50 (My resource cap) 85,0%
44,50 (My resource cap) 90,0%
44,50 (My resource cap) 95,0%
44,50 (My resource cap) 99,9%


Experimental Efficiency:

Health cost: 1 point pr. 6 2/3%
55 0,0%
56 6,67%
57 13,33%
56 20,00%
55 26,67%
54 33,33%
53 40,00%
52 46,67%
51 53,33%
50 60,00%
49 66,67%
48 73,33%
47 80,00%
46 86,67%
45 93,33%
99,99%

Action cost: 1 point pr. 3 1/3%
94 0,0%
93 3,33%
92 6,67%
91 10,00%
90 13,33%
89 16,67%
88 20,00%
87 23,33%
86 26,67%
85 30,00%
84 33,33%
83 36,67%
82 40,00%
81 43,33%
80 46,67%
79 50,00%
78 53,33%
77 56,67%
76 60,00%
75 63,33%
74 66,67%
73 70,00%
72 73,33%
71 76,67%
70 80,00%
69 83,33%
68 86,67%
67 90,00%
66 93,33%
65 96,67%
99,99%

Mind cost: 1 point pr. 20%
44 0,0 -19,9%
43 20 - 39,9%
42 40 - 59,9%
41 60 - 79,9%
40 80 - 99,9%


Force cost:
53 0,0 -29,9%
52 30 - 39,9%
51 40 - 59,9%
50 60 - 69.9%
49 70 – 79,9%
48 80 – 88,26% (My resource cap)
?? 90 - 99,9%

UPDATE: 08-02-05 (Only two servers can get into this 90% range (chilastra 90,99% and Bria 90,10%) and two server are very close(Corbantis 89,91% and Ahazi 89,86%))


All these charts are going to be used in a soon to be made virtual crafting tool program by Estei and me

Appendix A – The Village Lightsaber crafting toolkit
The Village crafting toolkit states that it gives critical assemblys or a Critical succes which is common talk for giving you the ability to break the ressouce cap. Wrong! It only give an Amazing succes on assembly which does nothing to your sabers stats. I have after reading some posts on the subject come to believe that a Critical succes is Dev-talk for an Amazing succes, since looking into the .tre files an Amazing succes is coded as a Critical succes and Dev Thunderheart have stated that a Critical succes happens with the same frequency as a Critical fail. And as we know an Amazing succes happens at the same frequency as a Critical fail. So is should be conclusive that a Critical succes is Dev-talk for an Amazing succes and the reports about busting the resouces caps are some kind of bug or unknown factor still unaccount for.

I would like to thanks DirthNader for bringing this to my attention:-) Further reading about the subject: [TEST RESULTS] Lightsaber Crafting trinket

Appendix B - Hidden decimals
I have been mapping the force cost multiplier for each sabertype and their special attack lately and as an extension of those tests I have also been trying to figure out the hidden decimals on sabers without any crystal/pearls equiped. We all know that the same crystals/pearls used in two different sabers can have a different force cost eg. the saber have hidden decimals, so I was expecting that using the same crystals/pearls in the two differently experimented sabers (both FC48 - 86% and 95%)would yield different force cost usages for the same special attack. To my surprise that wasn’t the case, I used the same amounts of force power for each saber. I also tried with only a color crystal and came up with same result – they all had the same force power usages. I know for a fact that the decimals on the crystals/pearls are applyied to the force cost usage for each special as you can have different combos of crystals/pearls giving the same force cost and those sabers have different force cost usage.

So my conclusion is that the hidden decimals on the saber are not counted for in regards to force power usages for specials but only affects the total force cost stat for the saber – like if the combined decimals of the saber and the crystal/pearls bump the force cost down by one.



AS little helper
Complete Guide to Armorcrafting
SWGCraft.com
Server resource chart – The Quest for FC 47

Message Edited by Ataho on 02-22-2005 08:29 PM

/bump Nice Guide man! I printed all info and will use it this weekend to get some nice resources to reach my "goal" Thanks for info!

Message Edited by Ohopo on 01-25-2005 04:11 PM

---

Ohopo wrote:

(gggggggggggggggg]=====(LightForceSquad)=====[gggggggggggggggg)

 

 

/bump Nice Guide man! I printed all info and will use it this weekend to get some nice resources to reach my "goal" Thanks for info!

 

P.S. Guess that should be sticky

Message Edited by Ohopo on 01-25-2005 04:11 PM

---

---

drathon-3 wrote:

I love math. No, seriously, great guide for us non-career crafters.

---

---

jrt wrote:
got to part 2.2 than after that i was like blah blah blah blah blah blah but what i saw was very nice 5 stars

---

---

Ataho wrote:

Force cost:
53 0,0 -29,9%
52 30 - 39,9%
51 40 - 59,9%
50 60 - 69.9%
49 70 – 79,9%
48 80 – 88,26% (My resource cap)
?? 90 - 99,9%

---

---

EnFERn0 wrote:

---

Ataho wrote:

Force cost:
53 0,0 -29,9%
52 30 - 39,9%
51 40 - 59,9%
50 60 - 69.9%
49 70 – 79,9%
48 80 – 88,26% (My resource cap)
?? 90 - 99,9%

---

I can do 90% on Sunrunner, base FC cost is still 49.

---

Message Edited by Ataho on 01-27-2005 07:34 AM

---

Bermag wrote:

One important thing that is not mentioned is if a resource do not have a specific stat (like conductivity, SR,UT etc for gas) then that is not included in the calculation. It does not count as 0 and not as 1000 as many think.

---

Message Edited by Ataho on 01-27-2005 08:20 AM

---

Ataho wrote:

Appendix A – The Village Lightsaber crafting toolkit
The Village crafting toolkit states that it gives critical assemblys which should give yout the ability to break the ressouce cap. I only gets amazing assemblys then using it and can't really tell the difference!

---

There is a widespread misconception that a "critical success" will allow you to break the resource-driven experimentation cap.  This is incorrect.  "Critical success" is devspeak for what we see reported on the crafting screens as an "amazing success".  Someone with access to the .tre files who can look through them with a program like SWGexplorer can verify this (I'll be a work for most of the day).

The only reference ever made to "critical success" was in a post from Thunderheart a long time ago when the ill-fated publish 7 crafting changes were being discussed.  Someone asked if there was such a thing, and Thunderheart replied that there was, and that they happened with the same frequency as a critical failure.  Now, as someone who's crafting an ungodly amount of items, I can tell you that amazing successes occur at the roughly the same frequency as critical failures for someone without modifiers like Force crafting, clothing attachments, food, and city bonuses.

The random assemblies that allow you to slightly bypass resource-based experimentation caps are a bug.  They're completely random - if they weren't someone would have figured out how to repeat them as the benefits can be significant (I've gotten an extra 2% on base resist from a bugged composite combine, and any top-teir armorsmith knows that 2% is huge).

It's unfortunate that whoever put the description in for the village tools used devspeak and not the language we're used to, because all it's done is create confusion.  These tools are not bugged - they promise amazing successes on assembly or experiementation, and they do exactly that.  Of course, that means that they're not extremely useful.  An amazing success on assembly doesn't do much (if anything at all), and all a guaranteed amazing success on experimentation does is to save the user from the frustration of making crystal pack after crystal pack trying to get a saber with all amazing successes on experimentation.

---

DirthNader wrote:

---

Ataho wrote:

Appendix A – The Village Lightsaber crafting toolkit
The Village crafting toolkit states that it gives critical assemblys which should give yout the ability to break the ressouce cap. I only gets amazing assemblys then using it and can't really tell the difference!

---

There is a widespread misconception that a "critical success" will allow you to break the resource-driven experimentation cap. This is incorrect. "Critical success" is devspeak for what we see reported on the crafting screens as an "amazing success". Someone with access to the .tre files who can look through them with a program like SWGexplorer can verify this (I'll be a work for most of the day).

The only reference ever made to "critical success" was in a post from Thunderheart a long time ago when the ill-fated publish 7 crafting changes were being discussed. Someone asked if there was such a thing, and Thunderheart replied that there was, and that they happened with the same frequency as a critical failure. Now, as someone who's crafting an ungodly amount of items, I can tell you that amazing successes occur at the roughly the same frequency as critical failures for someone without modifiers like Force crafting, clothing attachments, food, and city bonuses.

The random assemblies that allow you to slightly bypass resource-based experimentation caps are a bug. They're completely random - if they weren't someone would have figured out how to repeat them as the benefits can be significant (I've gotten an extra 2% on base resist from a bugged composite combine, and any top-teir armorsmith knows that 2% is huge).

It's unfortunate that whoever put the description in for the village tools used devspeak and not the language we're used to, because all it's done is create confusion. These tools are not bugged - they promise amazing successes on assembly or experiementation, and they do exactly that. Of course, that means that they're not extremely useful. An amazing success on assembly doesn't do much (if anything at all), and all a guaranteed amazing success on experimentation does is to save the user from the frustration of making crystal pack after crystal pack trying to get a saber with all amazing successes on experimentation.

---

Message Edited by Ataho on 01-27-2005 10:01 AM

---

DeadlyTedly wrote:
Very nice....

... and now for a question...

"Research City: Gives you a better experimentation roll.

Manufacturing City: Gives you a better assembly roll. "

If I were to have 2 houses with maximum crafting stations on the same planet... House A is in a manufacturing city, house B is in a research city. I do the assembly in house A, I then, without closing the crafting window, get on my swoop, or forcerun over to house B and then experiment... Whould I get both bonuses?

---

---

Ataho wrote:

...The Village crafting tool have this written on its decription: 20 uses of guaranteed critical assemblys. Since it only give amazings why not put that in the description and as you state its unfortunate that the description doesn't reflect its actual usage.

---

I think we're simply dealing with the differences between "devspeak" and what we're used to seeing on assembly / experimentation descriptions.  Similar things have happened before, and they drive a lot of confusion (which I don't blame the players for at all).

I didn't say it in my above post, but your guide is great.

One last thing, does anyone else have difficulty experimenting when using a droid with a WDG crafting module installed?  Using a droid when saber crafting always shoots me straight from assembly to prototype creation.  When I use a WDG station (private or public) I have no problems.

---

DirthNader wrote:

---

Ataho wrote:

...The Village crafting tool have this written on its decription: 20 uses of guaranteed critical assemblys. Since it only give amazings why not put that in the description and as you state its unfortunate that the description doesn't reflect its actual usage.

---

I think we're simply dealing with the differences between "devspeak" and what we're used to seeing on assembly / experimentation descriptions. Similar things have happened before, and they drive a lot of confusion (which I don't blame the players for at all).

I didn't say it in my above post, but your guide is great.

One last thing, does anyone else have difficulty experimenting when using a droid with a WDG crafting module installed? Using a droid when saber crafting always shoots me straight from assembly to prototype creation. When I use a WDG station (private or public) I have no problems.

---