FAQ: Is getting Master Brawler worth the Extra Points required?
This is another one of those questions of which the answer changes depending on other circumstances. However, I will do my best to help you arrive at your own conclusion.
Let’s start off with what we know for certain. Getting to Master Fencer will require 92 skill points. Master Brawler requires 77 skill points. However, in the process of reaching Master Fencer you will have already acquired Novice Brawler and the entire One-Handed Sword Specialization branch, which accounts for 29 of these skill points. This means that going the extra distance to achieve Master Brawler will only cost an additional 48 skill points. Therefore what we are trying to decide is if the benefits of Master Brawler are worth these additional 48 skill points based upon your needs.
Now we will look at what Master Brawler brings to the table for the Master Fencer (numbers in parenthesis are new totals) [numbers in brackets are percentile increases where applicable]:
Melee Defense: +5 (+79) [+7%]
Ranged Defense: +5 (+74) [+7%]
One-handed Toughness: +5 (+37) [+16%]
One-handed Accuracy: +5 (+155) [+3%]
One-handed Speed: +5 (+95) [+6%]
Center of Being Duration: +5 (+36) [+16%]
Center of Being Efficacy: +10 (+125) [+9%]
Berserk: +20 (+20)
Intimidate: +20 (+20)
Warcry: +20 (+20)
Taunt: +30 (+40) [+300%]
One-handed Lunge2
Berserk2
Intimidate2
Warcry2
Time for a closer examination of these elements:
Melee Defense adds to your chances of not being hit by an incoming melee attack. It is in direct opposition to your opponent’s melee weapon accuracy. Since an attacker can only use a single weapon at a time, and only use the accuracy modifiers related to that single weapon, there are limitations on how high an accuracy can reach. Still, Master Fencers break the +150 melee accuracy barrier, and Teras Kasi Masters get even higher. The advantage Melee Defense has is that Melee Defense from any profession or source all stacks together to provide an additive total defense. For your Melee Defense to even come close to matching the melee accuracy that can be brought to bear upon you, you will need to accumulate it from more than one source. More is always better as there are no hard caps on Melee Defense. If you already have Melee Defense from more than one profession, then another +5 might not make that much difference. However, if the only Melee Defense you have is from progressing through to Master Fencer, then another +5 isn’t a bad boost. You may also wish to keep in mind that Melee Defense isn’t the Master Fencer’s only method of escaping being hit by a melee attack. If your Melee Defense fails to keep you from being hit, you have a Dodge skill that comes into play as a “Second Chance” to evade the attack. It doesn’t add together directly with Melee Defense; it’s a separate check altogether. Fencers get a pretty significant Dodge ability, so perhaps you may not find another +5 Melee Defense to be that critical. Conclusion: The Melee Defense alone is probably not a significant reason to pursue Master Brawler, especially if you already have another profession that grants it. But if you are a purist, this is still an effective plus.
Ranged Defense works just like Melee Defense, except that it is used only against ranged weapon attacks. Practically everything said about Melee Defense can be said for Ranged Defense, even the part about Dodge serving as a “Second Chance” opportunity to evade an attack. The only point you might consider is that as a Fencer you are a close-up fighter. To fight close up you have to get close up. If you are trying to close the distance between yourself and a ranged opponent (that doesn’t want you close up) they will be running away from you at the same time. This means that you are likely to be attacked for a longer period of time before you are in a position to perform your first attack. It is for this reason that even a little bit more Ranged Defense should not be taken lightly, as it just might be the upset you need. Conclusion: The added Ranged Defense from Master Brawler is slightly more important than the additional Melee Defense. Still more could be obtained from other professions at a more frugal skill point cost.
One-handed Toughness is the final reduction of damage you can benefit from before it is deducted from your HAM. It applies to both ranged and melee damage alike. The first line of damage reduction is from Mitigation which reduces the offset (range) of the maximum damage from the unchanging minimum damage. The second line of damage reduction comes from the AR of any armor worn, and the third is from any applicable resists on it. After any or all the above have reduced the damage, this total gets reduced by your Toughness. It is a percentile reduction, so +50 Toughness would cut the damage in half. Unlike Melee or Ranged Defense, you have to have a One-handed Weapon equipped to benefit from One-handed Toughness, which means there is no stacking available from other professions. As a Master Fencer you only have a small amount of Toughness (32) available, so the +5 Toughness from Master Brawler is a significant improvement. Everything else being equal, this extra +5 Toughness would mean you will only take about 9/10ths of the damage you would at Master Fencer. Conclusion: This boost will generally let you survive 8% longer in battle, which is often enough to tip the scales. This is the first real prize to be found in Master Brawler, especially when you consider that you cannot get it anywhere else.
One-handed Accuracy is the modifier in direct opposition to your opponent’s Melee Defense. It also comes into play when determining if your opponent’s attempts at Dodging, Blocking, or Counterattacking will be successful. Fencers are already one of the most accurate combatants in the game with +150 Accuracy, and even our weapons are fairly accurate compared to most. The additional +5 Accuracy from Master Brawler is only small boost, relatively speaking. However, it is worth noting that you will not be getting more accuracy from any other profession. So if you feel you need more for those very evasive opponents, this would be it. Conclusion: This is only a very minor boost considering the Master Fencer’s already high Accuracy. I would not place that much value is this extra boost unless you are having trouble landing hits on your usual opponents.
One-handed Speed is a percentile reduction to the speed of your weapon; which is currently capped at 1.0 second. The slowest decent weapon a Fencer will be handling is still only 3.5; which requires only +70 One-handed Speed to reach the cap with normal attacks. You may still wish to account for the delay that special attacks incur (which go as high as x2.75 for Fencers) since the speed is not capped until after this delay. Given the +90 Speed that Master Fencers already have, a 3.5 weapon becomes a 0.35 weapon which allows for a special delay of up x3 before breaking 1.0 seconds. Therefore, unless the speed cap is removed, or the speed formula is changed, the extra +5 One-handed Speed from Master Brawler is completely wasted. Conclusion: Unless/until there are some major changes to the game mechanics involving speed, there is absolutely no reason to have another +5 One-handed Speed.
Center of Being is a tremendous defensive asset by the time you reach Master Fencer. Since CoB costs a flat rate amount of HAM per use, the longer it lasts the more efficient it becomes to use. An additional +5 seconds might not seem like a large amount, but if you intend to be in extended combat, that additional 5 seconds can make a significant difference in the total number of times you will have to refresh CoB. Master Brawler also improves the Efficacy (effectiveness) of CoB by nearly 10% over the entire duration. This little bit extra seems to make a pretty big difference against more accurate opponents. You also need to consider that this will be the last place you can pick up any CoB mods that work with the Fencer’s ability to Dodge. Conclusion: I would categorize these bonuses along with One-handed Toughness. By allowing you to survive longer in battle, you can accomplish more. Since you cannot gain this elsewhere, this is a decent incentive to get Master Brawler.
At the present time using Berserk at Master Fencer is not usually advantageous since it locks you into a set course of action. By not always being successful, costing quite a bit of HAM, only doing +75 damage per hit, and preventing you from performing any other specials makes Berserk rather limited in its usefulness. There are still occasions where Berserk can be handy. If you know the occasions of which I speak, and feel Berserk has its moments, then you’ll be happy to know that Master Brawler does two things for Berserk. First, it increases the likelihood of it being successful (not failing) by a noticeable margin. Second, it increases the duration if you choose to use Berserk2. Personally, I find the +20 Berserk (decreasing the failure rate) more beneficial than using Berserk2 (increasing the duration) by not wasting HAM, but not locking me into Berserk mode even longer. Conclusion: This depends on how often you use Berserk, which is highly dependent on your play-style and opponents. If you rarely (or never) use Berserk, then these boosts would not be realized. If you use Berserk fairly commonly, then this is a great way (and the only way) to boost its power.
The boosts to Intimidate are along the same lines. The +20 Intimidate increases your chances of success (directly opposed by your target’s Defense vs. Intimidate), and using Intimidate2 boosts the results. When you can get Intimidate to stick, the results are pretty nice, and will allow you to survive longer. Unlike Berserk, Intimidate does not prohibit you from performing other specials, which makes it more attractive and versatile. But like Berserk, this is the only place you will gain any boosts for it. So if you use it, then Master Brawler might look more attractive. Conclusion: I would rate this with higher priority than Berserk, due to its lack of limitations. These boosts to Intimidate can let you last longer in combat, which in turn allows you to fight longer and do more damage.
Warcry is a fantastic tool when timed right, and even an “ok” tool when not. When successful, Warcry prevents your opponent from performing any special actions. So it’s best to time it to work at a time when you know your opponent will need to perform that special action. The +20 boost to Warcry gained from Master Brawler will help it to stick, and using Warcry2 will improve the duration. As I mentioned, a properly timed Warcry can make or break the fight. Warcry doesn’t prevent the user from performing specials like Berserk does. But this is the only profession choice that provides any boost to Warcry. Conclusion: If you make good use of Warcry now, and know how to identify the proper moments to use it, then Master Brawler might be for you.
Taunt is a very situational tool, and not usually needed if your partners know how to properly distance themselves. If you find yourself requiring the use of the Taunt skill more than once a blue moon them I’d recommend educating your hunting partners. Unless game controlled opponents change AI from targeting the closest attacker to the most damaging attacker (or something else) then this is not an important skill. Also, this skill does nothing to player controlled attackers. Conclusion: If you are considering going for Master Brawler for the Taunt boost, then you more than likely have more serious problems to work out. However, with the impending combat changes, this may change.
Finally we come to One-hand Lunge2. Whereas One-hand Lunge1 is only a Posture Change, and must be combined with a successful Dizzy, and then some luck to be useful, One-hand Lunge2 is a full blown Knockdown. Also, One-hand Lunge1 only has a very slight change of working on targets with more than 2 legs, but One-hand Lunge2 works just fine on any target. This is a very powerful combat tool. When properly combined with Dizzy and Warcry it becomes even more potent. This is not just “slightly better” than Lunge1… it’s MUCH better than Lunge1. It’s more powerful, and more reliable. Some of the other combat professions (ranged and melee) have a Knockdown available to them within their own profession; but Fencers do not have access to their own Knockdown, and as such must rely on some outside source for it. If you already have another combat profession that has a full Knockdown available to them, then Master Brawler is not as necessary. Conclusion: If you already have another combat profession with a Knockdown, then Lunge2 isn’t required. However, if you only intend to use a One-handed weapon then getting Lunge2 is a powerful addition to your arsenal.
One last thing to consider should you be on the fence about embarking upon Master Brawler, is that you would already have the groundwork completed should you ever decide to work on another melee profession. A minor tidbit, granted, but noting.
In summary:
The great: One-handed Lunge2 (full Knockdown) Warcry2, and +20 Warcry Intimidate2, and +20 Intimidate One-handed Toughness +5 Center of Being Efficacy +10 Center of Being Duration +5
The good: Ranged Defense +5 Melee Defense +5
The mediocre: Berserk2, and +20 Berserk One-handed Accuracy +5
The weak or useless: Taunt +30 One-handed Speed +5
Now all you have to do is see what else you could get for those same 48 points and evaluate which would serve you better. I have one Master Fencer + Master Brawler on one server, and two Master Fencers on other servers with different choices for those 48 points. I enjoy all of them, and they are all successful and effective in their own ways. The final choice is up to you. Good luck!
One-handed Toughness is the final reduction of damage you can benefit from before it is deducted from your HAM. It applies to both ranged and melee damage alike. The first line of damage reduction is from Mitigation which reduces the offset (range) of the maximum damage from the unchanging minimum damage. The second line of damage reduction comes from the AR of any armor worn, and the third is from any applicable resists on it. After any or all the above have reduced the damage, this total gets reduced by your Toughness. It is a percentile reduction, so +50 Toughness would cut the damage in half. Unlike Melee or Ranged Defense, you have to have a One-handed Weapon equipped to benefit from One-handed Toughness, which means there is no stacking available from other professions. As a Master Fencer you only have a small amount of Toughness (32) available, so the +5 Toughness from Master Brawler is a significant improvement. Everything else being equal, this extra +5 Toughness would mean you will only take about 4/5ths of the damage you would at Master Fencer. Conclusion: This boost will generally let you survive 20% longer in battle, which is often enough to tip the scales. This is the first real prize to be found in Master Brawler, especially when you consider that you cannot get it anywhere else.
I'm not sure about your math here. Ignoring armor (which doesn't matter since toughness is applied compeltely independent of armor), toughness of 32 means that you take 68% of the damage of someone with no toughness. So for every 100 points of raw damage, you take 68. Now, toughness of 37 means you take 63% of the damage, or 63 for every 100 raw damage.
63 damage is only a 7.4% reduction in damage (or the proper way to look at it is 68 is 8% more damage than 63), so you can last 8% longer with the extra 5 toughness.
Imadoh and Ikiecobi Quality Resources and the Corellia Butcher - NoCo NoCo Trade Center, Corellia (just northeast of Coronet) 796, -3076
Wow Raphayl. I'm new to this forum and can't get enough of your posts. There is more info on any one of your posts than anywhere else on the internet combined concerning fencing. Thank you SO much for all of your information and insight.
Someone already mentioned the main thing that I had to offer: that melee toughness will grant you far less than a 20% decrease in damage.
On the positive note, whereas TKA's can easily outdo your melee defense, and will still hit very often, mobs don't have have that great of accuracy. Increased melee and ranged defense while not amazing, can be significant in PvE.
I have to disagree with this statement:
If you already have Melee Defense from more than one profession, then another +5 will not make that much difference.
The accuracy equation (as tested by Noules00 anyway) is:
You'd need to get a 138 melee defense to even dent a TKM's chance to hit you. On the flip side, with around 110 melee defense at the moment, even high level critters often hit me only about half the time. A +5 melee defense, against a creature that hits you half the time, will mean an overall decrease in damage of 5%. Not huge but it adds up. Against a creature that hits you only 25% of the time it would be a 10% decrease in damage. As we see, the higher your melee defense gets, the more effective further boosts are. It's like the speed equation in that sense. +5 speed gives you a lot more benefit when you are at +75 than it does at +20. "Capping out" in this case means never getting hit, which isn't a bad thing. =-)
Anyhow, to toot my horn for the brawler profession, Warcry2 is almost enough itself to justify Master Brawler. It is a fantastic skill and as it has a cone effect it can be used to stun many creatures at once. I have been able to hit 5 enemies at one time with it. Because of the timer on warcry, getting warcry2 is a very big upgrade, not to mention that it is also much easier to stick (as is intimidate2).
In my experience, Lunge2 seems to be better at knocking things down than TKA kd2. I can't back that up with any data, but it seems true in my experience. Also the range on it is huge, which makes it a very nice tool.
I have been a master brawler for a long time, and for a while there were only 3 of us on Starsider, lol not anymore. I am also master fencer and have been for close to 6 weeks. So i feel i have enough background to provide perspective.
We all know the favorite Templates for Fencer(any melee really) are the followiing
Master Fencer, Master Pistoleer(subsititute appropriate ranged here if you are not fencer i.e pike/carbine)
Total points Without master brawler is 92 master pistol 92 (without ranged support.) which leaves you with 66pts enough to have a some good secondary skills maybe , ranged support, medic and/or scout.
Now with Master Brawler you are down to 66 - 48 = 18pts barley enough to get a secondary skill and no medic skills if you get ranged support!!!!
Master Fencer, Doctor
Total points without master brawler is 92 plus 83 (novice doc only) if you want master doc its 140 for a total of 232 just enough for novice scout.
With master bralwer the most doc you can get is 0 3 4 0 or 0 4 3 0 for a total of 249 pts trust me i know this is my template.
Master Fencer/ CH
Without master bralwer you can have master ch and still have enough pts for some good medic skills.
With master brawler you cannot have medic. MAsterbralwer/fencer 140pts ch 106 = 4pts
Just wanted you all to have perspecitve on the constraints that having master brawler is on your template. i don't think it is very feasable to hutn solo withough at least novice medic, but that is my opinion.
Now is it worth it, thats up to your personal choice, warcry 2 is very good as is intimdate 2 and best of all lunge 2, the added bonuses are also worth it, Howver warcry 2 sticks less then half the time and i use bio clothes, with the change on dizzy/kd lunge 2 may alos not be worth it. Furthermore since they added significant bonuses to the elite melee professions and have not added anything except center of being to master brawler it has become less efective then it once was.
I have not played enough since last patch to be able to say whether it is stil worth it, if kd has been nerfed like i have heard from some posts, it might not be worth it. Overall assuming not much has changed to benefits the benefits are becoming less and less,
In summary with the huge bonuses added to the elite professions (center of bieng, dodge and melee def and now damage mitigation), the benefits that you recieve from master b are SIGNIFCANTLY less noticible and are mostlikly not going to be missed. Which is why i will probably drop it soon and will definatly drop it if the kd/dizzy has been nerfed.
You're disagreeing with a statement made by one person that you have not personally verified because of an opposing statement made by another person you have not personally verified? That's not like you, Gabe.
Although I am not finished with my testing for this (entering week 3) I already have conclusive evidence the above formula is incorrect. I do see where he came up with this though.
By the way, that last little Toughness figure (20%) was a last minute addon. I was proofreading and thought it needed some emphasis, so I added that part real quick and wasn't thinking straight and got my wires crossed. I'll correct the main post to reflect what was intended. Good catch, Happymob!
You're disagreeing with a statement made by one person that you have not personally verified because of an opposing statement made by another person you have not personally verified? That's not like you, Gabe.
Well, actually Noules00 conclusions are consistent with my experience and yours are contradictory. Throughout my career I have seen my melee defense grow from 0 to over 100. It has always been my experience that the higher my melee defense was, the more benefit I saw out of further improving it. Whereas I once saw almost no misses from high-end critters such as Nightsisters, over the past 30 or 40 points in melee defense I have seen a significant increase in misses. If I took your advice though, I would stop at only a bit of melee defense thinking that more would be less useful.
Is this stance like me? Absolutely. I have lots of strange beliefs that I believe without having personally verified. For example, I believe that the human body is made up of small enclosures called cells, even though I have never seen such things. Strange idea that, I know. I also believe that the Earth is a small spherical piece of rock and other materials that orbits around the Sun, although I have not personally verified this either. I must be mad. =-)
Bottom line: Noules00 has provided testing data and a conclusion that is consistent with my experience and where the conclusion follows from his data (and has not been successfully challenged). YOu have not provided data and you provide a conclusion that is inconsistent with some very fundamental things that I have noticed while playing the game. If you were to provide your conclusions in more detail and provide more data to back them then I could respond and figure out why I thought you were right or wrong. Until then, I've seen one very good explanation of accuracy that seems to be working well for me in the game.
What's with all the sarcasm? I'm not going to argue little nitpicky out-of-contexts issues with you, (especially if you have not done any testing yourself); at least not inside of a FAQ post. The object here is to try and relieve confusion, not to stir it up.
If you wish to believe Noules' formula, and it works for you, then great. I have no problem with that. I do need to point out that I did not say getting more Melee Defense wasn't useful. You are taking that way out of context. I said that if you already had the Melee Defense stacked up from multiple professions that spending another 48 points in Master brawler "solely" for another +5 points in it might not be the best use of those points. I never said it wouldn't improve your defense.
And where is "...and you provide a conclusion that is inconsistent with some very fundamental things that I have noticed while playing the game" coming from? What conclusion? Where have I posted this mystery conclusion? All I have said is that I am conducting testing, and some of the results do not support Noules000's formula.
I'm just not satisfied with a few anomalies I want to clear up first. Unlike some "testers," I don't like sampling just a few hours of data, leaving anomalies unaddressed and just jumping to conclusions about them. Once I am done, I do plan to present it here in full detail. Do you think you can reserve your "judgement" until then?
sniff, that was beautiful. Raphayl for president of the universe.
On topic: From being a long time master fencer and master brawler, I think that getting the master brawler is pretty much essential to melee combat. I think I'd survive more with master brawler than any from of defense mod stacking you could conjure without it. Simply put, the improved success and duration of 2 of the best ablities in the game is reason enough, said abilities being intimidate2 and warcry2. On he TKA forum a nooby TKM was crying about how a master brawler who went a little up swordsman was able to beat him (sorry i can't remember the post, but trust me) solely because of the goodness of warcry and intimidate. And honestly, if you're dueling someone who has master brawler + master elite as well, then they are suffering the same lack of defense mod stacking that you are, so do not fret. The trick is to use the best possible mods to complement the repertoire you currently have. GL to all upcoming fencers, and please do yourselves a favour and get the master brawler.
sorry for the lack of paragraphs, its late.
___________________________ [in limbo] Mo' Gan : Shadowfire ~ Farewell Shadowfire and SWG [retired] Mogan : Shadowfire ~ Master Fencer, Master Brawler · go go Power Rangers! · wishing the Combat Balance went Live much sooner · · punching bag of Shadowfire · this sig space is dedicated to the splendiferous Anna' ·
What's with all the sarcasm? I'm not going to argue little nitpicky out-of-contexts issues with you, (especially if you have not done any testing yourself); at least not inside of a FAQ post. The object here is to try and relieve confusion, not to stir it up.
Well you did seem to be implying that I was being unprofessional or unscientific or something of this nature simply because I hadn't tested every single result in this game. Since then I've done some testing and it seems to corroborate Noules00. I am a scientist by profession and I can tell you that it is simply unfeasible to personally verify every single result that I use in my work. Noules00 has documented his result well, it has not yet been challenged, and his formula follows well from his data. If you think he is wrong, please let us know how and why!
I do need to point out that I did not say getting more Melee Defense wasn't useful. You are taking that way out of context.
To me your post implied strongly that after you had a certain level of defense, you didn't really need more. I pointed out that this was exactly the opposite of my experience. I see that you have updated the post, and I think that is relevant and I'm happier with the new version. Far from this being an out of context nitpick, I find it to be incredibly relevant to challenge any source of information like this that may seem to be communicating something that isn't consistent with one's game experience.
I'm just not satisfied with a few anomalies I want to clear up first. Unlike some "testers," I don't like sampling just a few hours of data, leaving anomalies unaddressed and just jumping to conclusions about them. Once I am done, I do plan to present it here in full detail. Do you think you can reserve your "judgement" until then?
Well Noules00 did a lot of testing too, and my own testing corroborates his results. But yes, I would like to see other data. I don't like having it implied that I am somehow acting poorly simply because I don't know about data that you are holding off on posting however. If you have some data that says that I'm wrong, then show me what it is before you accuse me of anything. I can't defend myself against data that I don't even have access to.
Woot! 1-starred again for sharing information! Love the star system. =-)
By the way, the "mystery conclusion" that was contradictory to my experiences was, as already quoted:
If you already have Melee Defense from more than one profession, then another +5 will not make that much difference.
Now you have edited the original post and I find the covering of this issue to be better AND to contradict the prior wording.
Why wasn't it clear what conclusion I was referring to? Why are you referring to my post as an out-of-context nitpick (and seemingly implying that I am just being a jerk) when you edited the original post to say almost exactly what I was pointing out!?!
Lunge2+Warcry2 and you can have enough time to kill just about anything, I recommend Master Brawler for other Fencers because having a knockdown is very beneficial. We have Dizzy2 which is a very good dizzy attack so they work together.
My method is usually start with a lunge1 to make them stop running (seems whoever I fight they always run away) then while they're stopped for a bit hit a dizzy2 then lunge2 and they're on the ground for a while so I can hit with a bunch of Cho Moks
~ Sinderella | Livid ~ "Heaven just isn't hot enough"
I'm not -trying- to be jugemental in the least. When I see data on the brawler profession you better believe I'm going to post any comments I have about it, but only to provide what information I have to offer. I'm all about information and I don't pull any punches to give it. I don't like all this insinuation that I'm being a jerk just for offereing alternative information for a FAQ post that is fundamentally about the profession that I am correspondent for however!
I don't think it helped that Raphayl edited the original post to remove the statement that I said I disagreed with and to change the comments there to be more in line with what I was saying and then still accused me of making a "mystery conclusion" without mentioning the edit. I reread the FAQ and I even I was half-convinced that my reply was completely out of line until I realized that it had been changed.
Don't get me wrong:
I think Raphayl is a fantastic correspondent.
I greatly appreciate the testing that she has done and a lot of the information that she provides.
I think that by and large the FAQ here provides a lot of useful information.
BUT . . .
It is still my duty to challenge information regarding my profession and the game in general that does not match my experiences and knowledge of the game. Too get judgemental for a second, while I think you do a great job Raphayl, I think you could stand to be a bit less defensive about your territory and results. I think your reply to me really went a bit too far with respect to something that was merely pointing out different experiences and knowledge of the game (especially in a thread about brawlers when I am the brawler correspondent!). I also don't like that you didn't state your revisions of the FAQ when replying to me. I think it painted me in a worse light. That said, I still stand by all my above praise of you. At the same time, I currently have about 7 pages of posts that have been systematically one-starred by what looks to be multiple people.
Anyhow, I hope this issue can be resolved with as little drama and as little discord as possible.
