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Forum FAQ   Search   Usergroups   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Freeman's MMO canned by NC Soft Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next          WildcatMMO Forum Index -> Star Wars Galaxies Refuge View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message prime8 Just off the shuttle Joined: Dec 24, 2007 Posts: 24 Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Dundee was sitting in a bar and he goes to the bar tender "You see that church over there? I built it with my bare hands but do they call me Dundee the church builder? Nooo! You see that school over there? I taught there for 30 years but do they call me Dundee the educator? Nooo! But you fuck one goat...." SWG is your "goat" Back to top JediGeek Just off the shuttle Joined: Dec 24, 2007 Posts: 13 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:34 am    Post subject: Wow... just... wow... I am thoroughly impressed by Jeff's responses here. It's a big turn around from his postings on other sites in the past. Jeff, the last time I saw you post anything on game forums was when you were essentially defending yourself for the NGE blunder. It almost seemed like you were suffering from diarrhea of the mouth. You weren't thinking about what you were saying so it was coming across in a different way from what you intended. Nevertheless it came across like you were proud of dumping the NGE on us. We didn't like that. We keep tabs on most of the people involved with SWG at the NGE. Remember, Nancy MacIntyre now works for Leap Frog. Miss "too much reading" herself is now working for a children's educational toy company. I fear for the educational future of our country. But you Jeff, you managed to piss off a lot of us awhile back. We kept watch. Quite simply, those who were involved with SWG at the NGE and justify themselves for doing it will be on a blacklist. Those that truly acknowledge their mistakes have a good chance of winning us back. I'm very impressed with Jeff coming here and being honest about how he feels with regard to the NGE. I think he's earned a lot of forgiveness from the "vocal minority." I'll actually look forward to seeing what his next project is. _________________ Eve: Cardoh Dycen SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen R.I.P. WoW: Too many to name CoH/CoV: Don't remember Back to top Vanive Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 16, 2008 Posts: 4 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:13 am    Post subject: Dundee wrote: So that's why Raph, for example, has said he considers me to be a good designer that he'd work with again, despite his opinion of the NGE being the same as yours. Which was in response to me, BTW I like how you quoted me on your Blog. Honestly it was in response to the seemingly large amount of "finger pointing" going on it that time "it wasn't me! It was him" Reminded me of a bunch of kids on recess blaming each other. TBH few would have pointed the finger back at you Jeff If you had never done the now infamous Shenanigans Blog. All in all I’m so sick of SWG and SOE. I no longer care if the game sinks or swims because SOE has become a non-factor developer IMHO. Nothing they can do will ever compete with WoW, or set them apart from anyone else. They did it all to themselves. On a side note whatever it was that you were working on sounded interesting, I may be wrong but it sounded like a SWG knock off (not a bad thing) If it is any good I hope it will see the light of day. At the moment the only hope I have is that BioWare brings us an MMO worth playing, after that I consider my time in MMO gaming pretty much spent. The lack of depth coupled with linear game play really gets me down. I might as will play a single player game with the same linear play, at least I know my chances of getting a good high quality story, and working game are better. I’ve played 90% of the games on the game list at MMORPG.com, F2P P2P, Beta tested around 30 games and I can’t find anything that can hold my interest like pre-cu SWG did. At this point I would rather play nothing in MMOs, which is what I’m now doing. Thank god for the Wii! Back to top Taldek Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 16, 2008 Posts: 2 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: I think it's great that you've cleared the air somewhat; no matter what implications or faults come to bare. This is the first thing I believe I have seen in quite a long while coming from the SOE(ex-SOE) camp that was even worth reading. I can definitely appreciate your frustration and to some degree the complaisance for what you were tasked with regarding the CU/NGE. I am certain that most working adults have experienced this during some directive they've received from their upper management. In my opinion you have done the stand up thing, delayed as it was and for this I extend my gratitude. Now, if only we can get other more culprit parties to come forward and explain what it looks like from the intestinal perspective. _________________ Last edited by Taldek on Thu Jan 17, 2008 5:31 pm; edited 4 times in total Back to top Vidi Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 16, 2008 Posts: 5 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:16 pm    Post subject: I definitely appreciate your candor on this matter, Mr. Freeman. As they say, the first step to solving a problem is to admit that there is (or was) a problem. If what you have written is truly how you feel, then I think you will be ok in the future and people will come to regard you as an insightful man who is working for the greater good. Thank you Back to top Dundee Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 13, 2008 Posts: 25 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:52 pm    Post subject: Quote: When you get time i would mind knowing more about your project. My main concern is the system itself,how things are looking for publisher,an will it have 250 skill points too spend???( this be important to me) I believe that Spacetime is ramping-up to release a lot more info about the game (more and much sooner than we would have otherwise) as a matter of building interested in it. But I definitely don't want to jump the gun on that and risk causing problems with them wrapping-up loose-strings with NCSoft... So, all I can say at the moment is watch the spacetimestudios.com website. We're converting it over to WordPress from whatever god-awful thing they've been using, so at least there'll be an RSS feed to subscribe to (within the next day or two), and probably within a month or so I'll be more at liberty to discuss it, too. Quote: Im curious Dundee did you expect the worst when you posted? Did we shock you in our responses? See how honesty an being straight up no matter what helps? I didn't expect the worst when I posted, but then I did a few seconds after posting and even more so by the next morning. I kept trying to remember specific things I'd said and imagine how they'd look out-of-context on the front-page of MMO News Blogs... Quote: Are you the only one out there in Dev land with a freaking clue on how being involved in your community is beneficial? Oh, not at all... but most companies control who can talk, where they can talk, when they can talk, and what they can say pretty strictly. So it can seem like a whole team of dozens of people don't want to interact with the community, even if most on the team actually do (or are even lurkers or anonymous and such out-and-about, where their participation has to look just like non-participation due to company policy). Sometimes policy even changes, too. I recall UO devs used to roam the net willy-nilly, then one day all got reigned-in... but the devs that had been out there didn't all just suddenly change their opinions. Sometimes policy even changes, then changes again, and later changes again, and even from allowing interaction to mandating it to prohibiting it back to allowing it and then to mandating it (especially if none of those who were originally communicating with the players voluntarily opt to make themselves look like jerks). If a dev posts a "Hello! My name is-" introduction after a lengthy period of silence, and you're thinking, "Man, what a prick." 'cause this is the second or third time he's done that... Second time, he might think that he looks a bit like a jerk, but is too grateful to be allowed the interaction to realize that it's going to happen again, and he's going to look like a jerk again. There's a very small chance that breaking his promise the first time was his own idea. By the third time, there's a 100% chance he's thinking the same thing about whomever is making him do that. And he is definitely being forced to do it, because even those who want to communicate with the players aren't dumb enough to fall for that three times. They'll realize, "But if I promise to listen to them and communicate more - which I really want to do! - then if you make me cut-off communication in a month - which you have done twice now, before! - then I will look like like an ass for the third time." (Those who don't even want to do it will realize the same thing, but with much more profanity). Hypothetically, I mean. Not that such a thing has ever happened. _________________ --Jeff Freeman Back to top Dundee Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 13, 2008 Posts: 25 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: wildcat wrote: Basically the Dev team attitude at the time was even WORSE than "fuck the players". They didn't regard us AT ALL... Not the whole team, or even a majority of it. I only know that I didn't, but I wouldn't even suspect most people on the team of being that way. I'd bet a number of folk felt bad about it, sent out their resumes, then did whatever tasks were assigned to them and hoped to be gone by dawn. I was a genuine jerk, but I think most of the team were much better than that. Quote: My God, how can ANYONE who's income depends COMPLETELY on people NOT hitting "cancel subscription" en mass EVER adopt that attitude? That is the exact same decision that has been made every time an MMO has been canceled: boot the players that are still playing it out, assign the resources (i.e. employees, mostly) to making something else, which hopefully other people (and more of them) will like. The only difference at all is in terms of communication with the players. Canceling a game and then shipping a different game later is straightforward, open, and honest. I mean, that has never pissed you off, has it? Quote: Well, I'm willing at this point to grant Jeff his. I am... surprised, to say the least. That was really unexpected. But uhm... thanks. _________________ --Jeff Freeman Back to top prime8 Just off the shuttle Joined: Dec 24, 2007 Posts: 24 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:45 pm    Post subject: It seems to me like there's a bit of wool pulling going on here by someone who has finally realized his reputation was actually worth something , but no longer . Forgive , sure but never forget . Back to top Dundee Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 13, 2008 Posts: 25 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:03 pm    Post subject: prime8 wrote: It seems to me like there's a bit of wool pulling going on here by someone who has finally realized his reputation was actually worth something , but no longer . Forgive , sure but never forget . Fair enough, but I'm curious what you think I might be withholding or being dishonest about? _________________ --Jeff Freeman Back to top prime8 Just off the shuttle Joined: Dec 24, 2007 Posts: 24 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:20 pm    Post subject: Dundee Not dishonest , maybe trying to massage some egos here to get on side , why ? I dont know , do you have a game coming out soonish , oh i'm such a cynic , if your really being honest great , but in my experience the leopard never changes its spots . cheers Back to top wildcat Admin Cabal Joined: Dec 23, 2007 Posts: 166 Location: Huntington, WV Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:08 am    Post subject: The challenge I throw down now is that Smed, Cao, and the other principals involved need to show the same cojones and lay it all out. They can't pretend that this hasn't damaged them, their company, and that it will all just go away. Back to top AfroPuff Just off the shuttle Joined: Dec 28, 2007 Posts: 43 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:51 am    Post subject: Quote: That is the exact same decision that has been made every time an MMO has been canceled: boot the players that are still playing it out, assign the resources (i.e. employees, mostly) to making something else, which hopefully other people (and more of them) will like. The only difference at all is in terms of communication with the players. Canceling a game and then shipping a different game later is straightforward, open, and honest. I think that's a fair observation. What we had was indeed the launching of a new game, although not by another name. The question that remains is why not keep the old one intact as well, but I think that comes down to red tape, resources, logistics. Quote: The challenge I throw down now is that Smed, Cao, and the other principals involved need to show the same cojones and lay it all out. They can't pretend that this hasn't damaged them, their company, and that it will all just go away. They fully intend to go on doing exactly that. I suspect those that can have any impact on SWG now view winning over hearts minds and - more to the point - subscriptions among the bulk of the remaining Pre-NGE diaspora a lost cause at this point, and I can't say I fault that assesment. Some of them doubtless view this as a closed chapter in their lives, something that is over and done with, and would just as soon never revisit. Anyone actively managing the project today is probably managing for project team morale moreso than for setting things right with the disenfranchised. Back to top Taldek Just off the shuttle Joined: Jan 16, 2008 Posts: 2 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:00 am    Post subject: prime8 wrote: It seems to me like there's a bit of wool pulling going on here by someone who has finally realized his reputation was actually worth something , but no longer . Forgive , sure but never forget . The stand made here by Freeman could possibly be the bi-product of the expiration of an NDA. One irony that does beg to be pointed out here though: free·man (frē'mən) Pronunciation Key n. 1. A person not in slavery or serfdom. 2. One who possesses the rights or privileges of a citizen. Sorry Freeman, I couldn't resist. _________________ Back to top Dvol Just off the shuttle Joined: Dec 29, 2007 Posts: 37 Location: Go Vols!!! Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:21 am    Post subject: dundee thanks for the info much appreciated. keep us informed when your allowed too. Below is is a random rant i have stuck in my head after playing EvE last night...... You guys realize that every MMO i have tried in the last 2 years ther is allways a remark about SWG at least once in the chat window. The remarks varry, but majority is how much the game is missed. Some of these chats got me thinking how the MMO they are in now reminds them in a small part of SWG. Make comparisons of the game they are in vs SWG. If SWG went classic how they would drop the mmo they were in a go play it..How bad the Devs were to them, how bad the gameplay changes became. 3 years since that game was on a live server yet generates a conversation in other Games on a regular basis. Log in type something about SWG an see how many responses you get..90% of its how bad they miss it. If that doesnt scream money i dont know what does.. Bean counters you reading this? Im sure you are. Make a sandbox game with many of the old games features an polish it up....Simple yet we get a rehashed WoWclone allways.SWG couldnt have been the turd SoE made it out too be. i mean why would so many miss a turd? I dont miss the NGE. _________________ E-Feelings nothing more than hurt E-feelings.....E-tissues optional. Back to top Obee Just off the shuttle Joined: Dec 24, 2007 Posts: 22 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:29 am    Post subject: Dundee wrote: Quote: My God, how can ANYONE who's income depends COMPLETELY on people NOT hitting "cancel subscription" en mass EVER adopt that attitude? That is the exact same decision that has been made every time an MMO has been canceled: boot the players that are still playing it out, assign the resources (i.e. employees, mostly) to making something else, which hopefully other people (and more of them) will like. The only difference at all is in terms of communication with the players. Canceling a game and then shipping a different game later is straightforward, open, and honest. I mean, that has never pissed you off, has it? How many games that were making a profit have been canceled to make room for a new game in the hopes of making more money? I would have to think that a company telling its customers 'This game is doing fine, we just think we can make a different game and make even more money with it.' would piss quite a few people off. Canceling a game that is losing money, and redirecting resources to make a game that has a better chance to do so, would likely piss off a whole lot less people. Doing either one and not offering refunds to customers who pre-paid for game time would likely result a lawsuits and possible fines. 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