Downbeah
Community Veteran
Posts: 119
Registered: 06-27-2003
Fix BH Mission TEFs on Jedi to clear properly. Currently the mission target jedi Has to land the incap hit for the TEF to clear. This is detrimental to jedi grouping. If anyone else in the jedi's group gets the incap, the TEF is not cleared, the BH clones and comes right back for you. It is nigh impossible in the heat of battle to get everyone to peace out at just the right second so that you can get the hit that incaps the bounty hunter. Make it so that if anyone in the jedi's group incaps the BH, the TEF is lost and mission cleared.
lockder
Community Veteran
Posts: 178
Registered: 07-10-2003
Server: Radiant
- intimidate fail a lot even as master power vs someone with master defense - mindblast fail a lot more than a dervish if you try hit a master defense, its supposed to fail less since mindblast had 130 accurancy ( note you land the hit also with intimidate but there arent any affect on target) - force KD fail more than saber throw, again vs a master defender. I think force resist skill mod ARE affecting the force powers(stacking with jedi defense state) when you try do a state effect. This do you do more states using a saber even if you have 130 accurancy as master power
JivanMukti
Community Veteran
Posts: 267
Registered: 11-24-2003
PA:
GEN
Server: Tarquinas
Are our main toons fs now also and given the popup box to choose the 24 skillpoint fs boxes?
The Complete List of SEAs (Excellent read! ...Get the DEV's to fix these broken things!!!) http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=csystems&message.id=7076
shagon
Community Veteran
Posts: 137
Registered: 10-18-2003
On the daily maintenance fee required to maintain a rank. Giving each server has different volume of player and action when it comes to PvP action, why not change the daily maintenance based on # of PvP deaths on a server times Rank level as a %, adjusted as needed of course.
This is just an example actaully % would have to be adjusted.
Server 1 has 1000 PvP deaths, Player is rank 1 (10% of 1000 = 100) So maintaince would be 100 Server 2 had 100 PvP deaths, Player is rank 1 (10% of 100 = 10) So maintaince would be 10
This would keep all the server even based on the play and wouldn’t require any dev work with changes #'s on each server. You could even do a weekly total and change it once a week.
Expermentation should make more difference than just 3 or 4 pts to force power, or 5 or 6 pts to dmg. Its pointless right now.
Each Generation of a saber should be more noticable dmg wise.
Why are saber being reduce to a dmg lower than current weapons in the game. IE the LLC the MBH on TC2 get are doing 1000-1300 in pvp and saber wont go above 600-800 on avg.
#1 Concern is lack of toughness and general defences.
Armor, armor armor.
My 'master defencer, master lightsaber' testing jedi is the weakest PvE class I've every played so far. TKA/Commandos with good armor can kill the mobs my jedi fights with ease, perhaps just a little more time due to the flame DOT. Again, we're talking about a class using almost half available skill points just for 'defence', then the majority of the other half on lightsaber skills, leaving a meager handful for 2 lines in one other tree.
Force Armor 2 is 'nice' but against the high end mobs my main character could solo indefinitely- without anyone healing him - Force armor 2 runs dry on force extremely rapidly.
Not to mention the really 2 solid points we SHOULD have armor:
a) Initiates/Padawans need to wear something during their PvE grind. Without armor you are literally forcing them to group, forcing them on the bounty hunter terminals, then they have no defences to protect themselves. This is poorly thought out....
b) In trying to look like Jedi, we are giving up our armor. And we were promised to balance this the armor itself would have the defence mods. Armor is a integral part of the high end PvE and PvP, just like the buffs on Test were required by EVERY player for actual live testing. Part of a high end play involves armor, buffs, food and drinks.
c) Additionally we are giving up our storage space. Backpacks were introduced to allow the advanced players to carry more stuff around with them. All players get them. They are not realistic, but they are part of the game.
d) Even more additionally is the reduction in socketed clothing. It's these sockets that help ALL PvP players become unique and 'uber', and reward them for their time commitment to the game. There needs to be fairness in the fact that Jedi can have as much socketed clothing as any other class. Especially if the jedi tree is balanced against other classes. I know my main is loaded with socketed clothing, and armor. This helps him become more far more effective in combat.
We have all been testing on test, expecting the jedi there were so weak since resistances were never added to the Jedi robes. We're not letting this 'minor moot point' slide.
KyleKnox
Community Leader
Posts: 1349
Registered: 06-28-2003
Fought two DJK on test2 last knight - none of the three of us had anything in the defense tree. Lightsaber damage is PATHETIC. As a master LS, using a 4thgen 2H with 5 damage crystals (one was damage /colour), I COULD NOT DO over 180 damage. Saber throw 3 did around 60. This is unacceptable for both jedi vs jedi and jedi vs melee temploiter combat. And we all know that againts the melee temploiter it will be MUCH less.
Heres an idea - why dont you increase our damage to ACTUALLY look like it comes from a 40 million credit weapon, instead of nerfing our defenses.
Message Edited by KyleKnox on 06-23-200409:39 AM
Jedi Robes Long awaited are the Jedi robes! Gone will be the days of Jedi running about in armor. The Jedi robe will provide a hidden toughness value that will protect the Jedi, similar to armor, but providing more of a Jedi feel. -TH Jedi archive II
"If you had 16 boxes in the old system, you get 16 boxes in the new system. However many complete boxes you have, you will keep. The only thing you will need to do is choose which boxes you desire."-TH From Jedi Archive #1
Please bare with me for a moment here.. Here is the problem. It is apparent that we are not long the force to be recond with within the SWG universe. This I can somewhat understand from a combat stand point. Although one of the main reasons for us to have been loosing xp for a death was because we were SO powerful initially. Well we are no longer that. we are rated the same as other elite professions and even worse then others (TKM) but have put forth much more time to get and achive high ranks as a jedi, but we still get penalized worse then any other profession.
I have been reading alot on this subject and find that the only true reason (correct me if I am wrong since we are no longer Great powerfull being and only as good as everyone else) is that The dev team is trying to keep BH's from obtaining mass amounts of money from looping BH missions on a jedi.
Here is my solution: Froma coding standpoint this may be difficult, or it may not be I am not a programmer, but there needs to be something done that is more fair to the jedi community since we have put forth so much time, and the amount of xp to do anything as a jedi it GREAT. although I think it is a good idea that there be no xp loss when ranked Jedi ar fighting eachother I think this step should be taken to the next level for all fairness.
Jedi should only loose xp in battle when it involves a bh killing a jedi that has a mission on the jedi. So Jedi loose no xp unless they are killed by a bh with their missions on them. That is it. This allows jedi to be more PVP active, Allows bh's to get there just reward, allows jedi to be able to play, and not get PUNISHED FOR BEING JEDI (especially with allthe time it takes to get, and lvl, and play a jedi), but the main thing, it keep bh's and jedi from taking advantage ot the bh missions payout.
Please lets keep this constructive and allow the devs to look this over.
Also on a side note, I think robes should allow for multiple colorizations per the jedi's wish when he achives his robes, or at certain lvl's jedi should be able to craft their own robes, but only be able to craft robes that are relevent to their ranked or PVE lvl.
Myonax
Community Elder
Posts: 304
Registered: 06-27-2003
Server: Bloodfin
I do not see the harm in Allowing FS melee accuracy/speed work in conjunction with sabers, I think there would be fewer complaints about them...
I doubt they will drop FS skills as requirement after knight. The Devs seem adamant on them. Just like those stupid college pre-reqs I had to take that I am still paying for after college... Uhg.
Aries1
Community Veteran
Posts: 163
Registered: 07-10-2003
Server: Test Center
What I would like to see is them give each sabe type it's own tree and eliminate the defender tree and roll it in to the saber tree's. Not time to rework the force trees so....
I see most players sticking with one type of saber (double bladed) there are exceptions but the main reason is there is no real difference in speed at master between them.
Sure they hit different pools, but this will change with the combat balance pub.
To make some distinctions I'd throw this out there..
Sable pro con onehanded high def mods/high to hit mods low damage twohanded high damage low def mods doublebladed only saber with area attacks slowest of sabers.
Just a basic outline, but sabers should have trade offs just like force powers do. This would work a lot better if each saber had it's own tree, but dev's didn't go that route.
Another issue... The description of saberslash2 was changed from knockdown to posture down. Now the only knockdown a lightsaber wielder can do are saberthrow2 and saberthrow3.
Imo it makes sense that we have a melee range knockdown like saberslash2 was labelled... Can you ask if we can get a melee range knockdown special?
Zarcan Lesh et. al.
The Emperor will show you the true nature of the Force.
PuntaSur
Community Elder
Posts: 371
Registered: 07-19-2003
Server: Wanderhome
ArjunThakur wrote:
-Please fix the double death penalty (losing 2 deaths on disconnect+killed)This happens with some regularity and is really going to hurt people if they are losing XP each death pre-knight.
TH wrote:
Experience loss has been changed back and forth a bit. There has to be some death penalty associated with PvP deaths because of the inherent power level of Jedi and also to prevent Jedi from selling their deaths to Bounty Hunters. Without a penalty, it leaves the possibility of a “Death-credit” loop.
My comments:
I totally understand the concern about providing insulation from people who look to exploit the mechanics of a system. This could be circumvented using the same mechanics to reduce exploitation of FRS gained XP where credit is limited by not allowing so many kills in a given timeframe. That "engine" is already in place for FRS, so why not apply it to the BH vs Jedi model?
Example:
- BH Bob gets a mission for Jedi Jason, finds Jedi Jason, kills Jedi Jason.
- BH Bob gets paid his 150K and awarded the xp.
- Jedi Jason experiences the alloted xp loss, has his mission cleared from the terminals and datapads of other BHs.
- BH Bob can't get credit (credits or xp) for another kill on Jedi Jason for 48 hours (or whatever balance of time is appropriate).
- BH Bob can take missions for "OTHER" Jedi and get credit.
- "OTHER" BHs can take NEW missions for Jedi Jason if his visibility is raised enough to get him on the terminals again.
Summary: In a One-to-One relationship you have stopped the exploitability using the same model already applied to limit FRS XP exploits. Jedi Jason is still vulnerable to OTHER BH's if he should get himself on the terminals again, but BH Bob is no longer a threat for 48 hours. BH Bob is able to take missions and get credit for OTHER Jedi who make the terminals, just not Jedi Jason for 48 hours.
This would enable reduction/elimination in credit/xp loop exploitation as well as reduce griefing between certain groups and individuals.
TH wrote:
Experience loss has been changed back and forth a bit. There has to be some death penalty associated with PvP deaths because of the inherent power level of Jedi and also to prevent Jedi from selling their deaths to Bounty Hunters.
My Comments:
If we are being reduced in power to that of other combat professions, and most of us after testing feel we are now beneath the power level of most of the other combat professions, then why does there have to be a death penalty exactly? In all fairness, I'd like to see ALL combat professions receive a death penalty. Maybe it would stop ANYONE from tossing their char into a "meat grinder" and actually consider the risk/reward of entering a situation.
Our penalty for even having this character comes from the lengthy investment of time and effort to just be a shiny new less than equal combat profession. The only Jedi with "inherent power level of Jedi" now are the FRS and they are getting NO penalty.
JoeyMojo
Community Veteran
Posts: 239
Registered: 07-21-2003
On Armor, and being in canon with Lucas' vision of Star Wars.
The main characters didn't in Star Wars didn't wear armor because they chose not to, and didn't need to as they couldn't be hit. Further, jedi specifically chose to wear their robes (over armor) because they didn't need to - they were exceptionally hard to be hit.
Yet, in Clone Wars we see Obi Wan running around in Clone Trooper Armor. Oh, and he still uses his force powers. It's a choice. He's going into a situation where it may be impossible to stop every attack coming his way. So he bows to the reality of armor.
So it stands, that Jedi are able to wear armor, but on the whole choose not to. Why? Because they don't get hit all that often and simply don't need to. Not because jedi robes invoke some hidden secret bonuses..
It's a game system. To make jedi as hard to hit as they are in the books, comics, movies, and cartoons, non-jedi players would be frustrated. So it's inevetible that jedi will be shot and stabbed and clubbed. Give them some means of protection. Defender and Force Armor 2 simply do not cut it.
Further, to balance jedi toughness on combat balance stats is ludicrus - it cannot be determined NOW what the effects of armor will end up as. I'm sorry, but this line of thinking is naive to the point of delusionary.
On Mitigation.
Just because other profs are losing it in the future doesn't mean that jedi should be withheld this valuable skill now. Stop putting the cart before the horse and making changes/decisions based on what will be - base them on what IS.
On Melee blocking.
Go watch art of the saber. Go watch Star Wars Episode 4: A New Hope. Look at that- jedi blocking lightsaber attacks. Lightsabers are.. what? MELEE attacks. By the logic exhibited here, I expect to see Fencers, Swordsman, and Pikeman nerfed to melee attacks as well.
BH missions really should grant faction points, and some sort of badge/notice of the Jedi kill. I agree without a penalty, BH can farm jedi missions (Reminds me- what's to stop farming of a fully trained Jedi before or after Knight trials?)
Personally, I feel the BH missions should reward in special BH faction points, that allow BH access to equipment that cannot be traded, that is useful in fighting jedi. Or special components for Mandalorian, or pass keys to help get through the bunker a little easier.
The jedi should lose XP from BH deathblow only, or we have the clone camping syndrome potential if the BH hunting is like before- the Rifleman in the group kills the Jedi, the BH still has a mission on the Jedi. Hmm.
I agree that a BH should at the minimum only claim the reward on a jedi kill once per week or a reasonable time period. 150k is a fair chunk of money for one kill.
Are ranked Jedi going to be exempt from the terminals? Or is it just suicide for BH to try attacking them? Or as a ranked jedi will I be so happy with my skills that I can infinitely sell lives to BH for XP/credits?
Bounty Hunters should hunt Jedi, they should gain some benefit that isn't exploitable, and jedi should suffer a reasonable penalty that also cannot be exploited. This is going to be a pretty big issue when we have main characters unlocking jedi slots.
All the above should be at least reviewed by the development team. This jedi revamp changes the entire balance of Jedi in the game. Though it will still strike me odd that a BH will need to bring a single TKA/Fencer friend or CM to actually incap the jedi
Because they already have reflect ready to put in game, why not ask them to balance it in with the rest of the changes that they are doing? Aka, make mods in the saber tree that modify our abality to counter attack from a block... I'm sure we would be willing to suffer a little ranged defense for this.
Face Loran, Corbantis 4-0-2-4 LS, 0-0-0-0 Def, 1-0-0-1 Heal, 0-0-0-3 Enh, 0-0-0-0 Powers. UNLOCKED *April 17th, 2004* Do or Do not, there is no try. I have done.
-Please fix the double death penalty (losing 2 deaths on disconnect+killed)This happens with some regularity and is really going to hurt people if they are losing XP each death pre-knight.
TH wrote:
Experience loss has been changed back and forth a bit. There has to be some death penalty associated with PvP deaths because of the inherent power level of Jedi and also to prevent Jedi from selling their deaths to Bounty Hunters. Without a penalty, it leaves the possibility of a “Death-credit” loop.
My comments:
I totally understand the concern about providing insulation from people who look to exploit the mechanics of a system. This could be circumvented using the same mechanics to reduce exploitation of FRS gained XP where credit is limited by not allowing so many kills in a given timeframe. That "engine" is already in place for FRS, so why not apply it to the BH vs Jedi model?
Example:
- BH Bob gets a mission for Jedi Jason, finds Jedi Jason, kills Jedi Jason.
- BH Bob gets paid his 150K and awarded the xp.
- Jedi Jason experiences the alloted xp loss, has his mission cleared from the terminals and datapads of other BHs.
- BH Bob can't get credit (credits or xp) for another kill on Jedi Jason for 48 hours (or whatever balance of time is appropriate).
- BH Bob can take missions for "OTHER" Jedi and get credit.
- "OTHER" BHs can take NEW missions for Jedi Jason if his visibility is raised enough to get him on the terminals again.
Summary: In a One-to-One relationship you have stopped the exploitability using the same model already applied to limit FRS XP exploits. Jedi Jason is still vulnerable to OTHER BH's if he should get himself on the terminals again, but BH Bob is no longer a threat for 48 hours. BH Bob is able to take missions and get credit for OTHER Jedi who make the terminals, just not Jedi Jason for 48 hours.
This would enable reduction/elimination in credit/xp loop exploitation as well as reduce griefing between certain groups and individuals.
TH wrote:
Experience loss has been changed back and forth a bit. There has to be some death penalty associated with PvP deaths because of the inherent power level of Jedi and also to prevent Jedi from selling their deaths to Bounty Hunters.
My Comments:
If we are being reduced in power to that of other combat professions, and most of us after testing feel we are now beneath the power level of most of the other combat professions, then why does there have to be a death penalty exactly? In all fairness, I'd like to see ALL combat professions receive a death penalty. Maybe it would stop ANYONE from tossing their char into a "meat grinder" and actually consider the risk/reward of entering a situation.
Our penalty for even having this character comes from the lengthy investment of time and effort to just be a shiny new less than equal combat profession. The only Jedi with "inherent power level of Jedi" now are the FRS and they are getting NO penalty.
This is very unusual.
Message Edited by PuntaSur on 06-23-200402:15 PM
Very nice indeed! I agree 100%. Arjun please take a close look at the above post.
Vamir Daba - Rifleman ~ Swordsman, Eclipse Server Coono Daba - Doctor ~ Teras Kasi Artist, Eclipse Server Please drop off any deliveries to Coono's Rx vendor, Terminal City, Naboo (6002 2475)
InsaneDms
Community Elder
Posts: 1174
Registered: 09-10-2003
PA:
Noble Heroes of Corbantis (NHoC)
Server: Corbantis
Bastilaa wrote:
Can you add that we get a color crystal out when breakdown the saber.
This would really help many Jedi out.
I definalty second this request.
Like many other Jedi, on Monday morning I sabered up all my single crystals (couldn't log in on Monday evening), since TC-Corbantis twins converted as color crystals and we had no news of the patch delay. Now on TC-Valcyn, twins convert to damage crystals. I'm now going to be saberless begging on the trade forums, when I could have been just fine if information would have been shared more quickly. I now feel like I'm being punished for a lack of information from the dev team, espicially when I was making the best decision possible with the given information.
That or make the color crystals questable or craftable like they should be in the first place.
Orevore -- Master Armorsmith -- Restocked 6/16/04 Armor by Orevore next to the Shuttleport in Apotheon, Naboo (not on global, just in a tent) Kinetic Composite 80%/66% (High HAM) 250k Kinetic Composite 80%/58% (Low HAM) 250k Stun Helms and Chest 33%/60% -- 75k/80k Suits and pieces available
??????? -- Light Jedi Apprentice -- Grinding like the wind
XZypher
Community Veteran
Posts: 132
Registered: 09-21-2003
Delays on Heals Are horrible the delay after the heal i can deal with that but now they are delaying before and after the heal.
But then why should we get delayed on out next action as long as its not a heal type Docs can heal and attack at same time as in a tkm/doc one action every second on attacks but loses one if they heal why cant we be the same way and put the delay towards the next heal not a attack.
X'Zypher Loyal Subject Of Our Great And Powerful Emperor. Total jedi fallen to my blade 12.
Warder83
Community Elder
Posts: 321
Registered: 07-02-2003
PA:
Red Dawn
Server: Flurry
As of now, this revamp is only about combat. Catering directly to the power gamer. Don't get me wrong, of course the Skills/combat of a Jedi are very important and needed a change badly. But I think the Feel of being a Jedi needs a revamp too, and the Knight Trials don't cut it =P
Fact:
Jedi is not fun. Its a borring grind with little to no reward. Lightsaber components are lame as looted items, does not fit in with the Star Wars theme (IE Light Jedi do not murder NPCs to 'loot' LS components).
Idea:
Make the Shrines give out 'Jedi Missions' to Jedi under knight. I realise there is already a Jedi Mission difficulty Mod in place, could this be used to determine the mission difficulty? The Missions could be simple destroy or delivery (Maybe not delivery) and like factional missions award a bonus amount of Jedi exp for completing them.
Not only would this make the grind a little less Blindingly Borring, but the grind would seem a little less harsh.
You could also make it so after X number of completed missions the Jedi recieves a new Holocron that acts like a treasure map and directs us to a Crystal.
Fact:
We asked for LESS looted components... You gave us one more =/
Idea:
Colour crystals are just another lotted item needed for a Lightsaber. Could you add a quest that allows us to gain it? An Idea would be make colour crystals be a item that Smugglers can trade from the Jawa's at the Palace. I know that this would make it so Jedi would need to buy them, but if they are made easy to trade for they shouldn't cost very much.
Fact:
Knight Trials are a HUGE letdown. Could we get a little more content in the pinicle of a Jedi's life? Its obvious these were just thrown together with little thought. After grinding for 6 months to reach Knight, I would expect a little more of a content filled epic quest than "Kill X number of Y". No matter how pretty you make the shrines... They are still generic destroy missions with 250k HAM targets.
Idea:
Make more dicerse missions where there is more than one way to complete them, a obvious Light Jedi way and a Obvious Dark jedi way. There are many suggestions posted about this. Yet we still recieve NO comment from either Arjun or the Devs.
Arjun can you please comment on what you think of the Knight trials? And maybe ask the Devs why they are so Vanilla?
How To Be a Jedi:
1: Kill thousands of animals/NPCs to gain force sensitivity. 2: Kill thousands of NPCs to loot crystals. 3: Kill thousands of animals/NPCs to advance through Jedi. 4: Kill X number of Y, Z times to advance to Knight. 5: Kill X number of 'Insert opposite faction here' Jedi to advance in the Ranks. 6: Congrats! In a normal society, you qualify as a Pshycopathic Cerial Killer!
HavelockVetinari
Community Leader
Posts: 3504
Registered: 07-04-2003
Server: Bloodfin
cirE20 wrote:
How about a /forceRevive at Master Healer. Would be nice to be able to res others if your investing that many points in it... should be simple enough to implement.
Very good call. Obi-Wan did it. This way, both master healers can have some added usefulness. Shoot, this might even convince a third person to pick up the skill.
Seriously, this is a good idea and I'm surprised SOE didn't include it before.
Havel Ock Jedi Padawan
WootHog: the social networking site for MMO gamers.
VegitoSS
Community Member
Posts: 115
Registered: 05-11-2004
Give us resist on robes - Dont think I have to explain this one.
Allow our pearls/crystals not to decay. - There is no difference in saber decay live/ pearl decay test. They both decay to nothing and I dont see that as a fix to one of our top 5 issues prior to this revamp.
Remove need for color crystal or make that something every jedi could get easy. - When I convert to the revamp and have no color crystals, its going to make my jedi unplayable. I will have to go out and try and loot a crystal just so I can play my jedi again. This is going to cause prices to shoot up for color crystals and shut down many jedi who do not have them yet.
Increase saber damage to PVE mobs - The current auto attack does about 450-500 damage off my level 4 5 crystal polerarm. It takes along time to kill things when you hit them for 400 points. The amount of xp we need to level should allow us to cut through rancors like we do in live. Spamming specials constantly is not an option. You will run out of force power fast and your hands will be cramped up after 1 buff session. (anyone who doesnt know you have to click buttons non stop if you want to kill animals at a decent speed).
XP needs tweaked. - Up the xp cap on kills or decrease xp requirements to level. I heard there was a higher xp cap but this is not true. I get about 900+ xp a kill on a rancor. This is similar to what guardians get so there seems to be no xp cap raise. Raising the cap would let people level alittle faster. As it stands now it will take many months to level up jedi. For those who say that it should be slow do not play jedi. Its long boring and there is no reward at the end. Increasing xp per kill would help out. Or you can decrease the requirements some.
Remove master defense tree - There is no reason to make a jedi use 89 points to get some passive defenses. This was our top issues prior to revamp. All jedi should get some passive defense besides toughness. Put the mods in saber tree or in other trees. This would also cut the masters down from 5 to 4. This would give people better options when chosing their skills. It would not force jedi into default templates to level and play pvp in the game.
Allow backpacks and clothing with SEA's - Jedi is penalized enough why do this to them?
Conversion points - Give people credit for doing the 3.2 million apprentice box.
XP loss decay - Before someone suffers the XP loss there should be a buffer similar to what we have on live. Moreover, there should be a period your loss xp can regen back so your not stuck in the hole forever.
Changing skills - Knights should be able to change skills without the need to regrind them. There could be a time period for this. For example, you can swap skills but must wait 2 weeks or 4 weeks before changing again. This would help people who made choices on skills they know nothing about. Many will pick stuff after conversion and wish they changed. Well at knight level I think they earned the right to change.
Fix all reported bugs before live - Goes without saying.. Many bugs have been submitted.. Get them fixed before you release this thing.
