I was thinking about several problems in SWG that arise like people getting killed while loading into a shuttle- or starport without the ability to defend themselves, being image designed or stat migrated inside a tent and attacked which stops the image design action, sitting in the medcenter and getting killed while being treated by a doctor healed, people getting clonecamped in the clonecenter, Jedi and other people showing off and dueling inside starports.
1.Institution of non-combat zones
In these zones, players and NPCs alike would not be able to initiate combat at all. No duels, no overt vs. overt combat, no TEF combat whatsoever.
Non-combat zones include:
- Starports
- The landing Area around shuttleports
- Clonecenters
- Medcenters
- Image design salons
- Cantinas
- Taverns
- other public buildings in cities (theaters, capitol buildings, etc.)
There is already code for players not being able to initiate combat in place on multipassenger ships, so I believe it could be adapted for non-combat zones with relative ease as well. Or, even better, just use the current code for (the broken) battlefields to create non-combat zones, as battlefields are essentially non-combat zones rigth now anyway.
2. Non-Combat Zones cannot be entered while in combat
This prevents people from fleeing into non-combat zones and thus breaking combat and also prevents people to bring combat into these zones.
The barring of combatants for such zones could work in a similar fashion to not allowing people with TEF or unauthorized people to enter private buildings or the village of Aurilia.
3.Post-combat cool off timer before you could enter a non-combat zone again
This timer prevents people abusing non-combat zone boundaries to quickly sweep out of them, get off a few shots, /peace, jump back to safety and repeat the procedure.
For the cool off timer, the code for the timer similar to the one for storing pets after combat could be used.
4.People in non-combat zones cannot affect people outside these zones and vice versa
This prevents people outside of non-combat zones from attacking people that are inside non-combat zones. It also prevents abuse of the non-combat zone boundary like medics, doctors and combat medics inside the non-combat zone healing combatants on the outside without being vulnerable to attack, trades from inside non-combat zones to the outside and other possible abuses of the non-combat zone.
A modified version of the 'line of sight' code could be used for this.
5.Overt inside non-combat zones are not visible as overt on the map
This prevents people from camping the exit spots of these areas because they see a red dot inside and can target it. Targeting via 'TAB' (default key) shouldn't be possible for those either.
Code from current battlefields, where everything inside (and outside, for the poeple inside a non-combat zone) turns white could be used.
Thoughts: I do not think non-combat zones would be overly hard to implement (especially since the code for such things is already in place in other parts of the game and could be reused), it would get rid of many problems, annoyances and forms of griefing as well as make the game more enjoyable and give it a more 'mature' feel.
Message Edited by Glzmo on 11-14-200412:29 AM
there is a easier fix for this, if you do not want to PvP remain a neutral faction member. If you have the balls to PvP then join a faction and expect to get attacked anytime anywhere. Its that simple.
Remember, when you first joined a faction you were warned that you may become attackable by opposing faction. Most of you guys did not pay attention to that warning. The neutral aspect of the game was there to accomodate the PvE'er, Factions and the GCW were there for PvP'ers.
No-Combat zones is just more BS to ruin this game.
A six-year old Boy can start a fire with a flint rock even though a 36-year old man says they can only do it in the movies.
HA-SuperNaut - Commander In Chief - Empires Elite E
I was thinking about several problems in SWG that arise like people getting killed while loading into a shuttle- or starport without the ability to defend themselves, being image designed or stat migrated inside a tent and attacked which stops the image design action, sitting in the medcenter and getting killed while being treated by a doctor healed, people getting clonecamped in the clonecenter, Jedi and other people showing off and dueling inside starports.
1.Institution of non-combat zones
In these zones, players and NPCs alike would not be able to initiate combat at all. No duels, no overt vs. overt combat, no TEF combat whatsoever.
Non-combat zones include:
- Starports
- The landing Area around shuttleports
- Clonecenters
- Medcenters
- Image design salons
- Cantinas
- Taverns
- other public buildings in cities (theaters, capitol buildings, etc.)
There is already code for players not being able to initiate combat in place on multipassenger ships, so I believe it could be adapted for non-combat zones with relative ease as well. Or, even better, just use the current code for (the broken) battlefields to create non-combat zones, as battlefields are essentially non-combat zones rigth now anyway.
2. Non-Combat Zones cannot be entered while in combat
This prevents people from fleeing into non-combat zones and thus breaking combat and also prevents people to bring combat into these zones.
The barring of combatants for such zones could work in a similar fashion to not allowing people with TEF or unauthorized people to enter private buildings or the village of Aurilia.
3.Post-combat cool off timer before you could enter a non-combat zone again
This timer prevents people abusing non-combat zone boundaries to quickly sweep out of them, get off a few shots, /peace, jump back to safety and repeat the procedure.
For the cool off timer, the code for the timer similar to the one for storing pets after combat could be used.
4.People in non-combat zones cannot affect people outside these zones and vice versa
This prevents people outside of non-combat zones from attacking people that are inside non-combat zones. It also prevents abuse of the non-combat zone boundary like medics, doctors and combat medics inside the non-combat zone healing combatants on the outside without being vulnerable to attack, trades from inside non-combat zones to the outside and other possible abuses of the non-combat zone.
A modified version of the 'line of sight' code could be used for this.
5.Overt inside non-combat zones are not visible as overt on the map
This prevents people from camping the exit spots of these areas because they see a red dot inside and can target it. Targeting via 'TAB' (default key) shouldn't be possible for those either.
Code from current battlefields, where everything inside (and outside, for the poeple inside a non-combat zone) turns white could be used.
Thoughts: I do not think non-combat zones would be overly hard to implement (especially since the code for such things is already in place in other parts of the game and could be reused), it would get rid of many problems, annoyances and forms of griefing as well as make the game more enjoyable and give it a more 'mature' feel.
Message Edited by Glzmo on 11-14-200412:29 AM
there is a easier fix for this, if you do not want to PvP remain a neutral faction member. If you have the balls to PvP then join a faction and expect to get attacked anytime anywhere. Its that simple.
Remember, when you first joined a faction you were warned that you may become attackable by opposing faction. Most of you guys did not pay attention to that warning. The neutral aspect of the game was there to accomodate the PvE'er, Factions and the GCW were there for PvP'ers.
No-Combat zones is just more BS to ruin this game.
It's still not nice to see people shoot around and duel in starports. Also, there is PVE factional content as well (Themeparks!). They were definitely not designed for PVP.
How would non-combat zones ruin this game in your opinion? Please elaborate.
I was thinking about several problems in SWG that arise like people getting killed while loading into a shuttle- or starport without the ability to defend themselves, being image designed or stat migrated inside a tent and attacked which stops the image design action, sitting in the medcenter and getting killed while being treated by a doctor healed, people getting clonecamped in the clonecenter, Jedi and other people showing off and dueling inside starports.
I do agree these problems need to be fixed, but making them non-combat zones is not the answer.
I was thinking about several problems in SWG that arise like people getting killed while loading into a shuttle- or starport without the ability to defend themselves, being image designed or stat migrated inside a tent and attacked which stops the image design action, sitting in the medcenter and getting killed while being treated by a doctor healed, people getting clonecamped in the clonecenter, Jedi and other people showing off and dueling inside starports.
I do agree these problems need to be fixed, but making them non-combat zones is not the answer.
I am interested in your better answer, so feel free to share it with us.
battlefield was fun in a certain way, like a paint ball arena, where victory or defeat didn't have any effect in the world.
personally i don't miss them. I miss citywarn, faction scanner and these sort of tools, those which gives some sort of control on a said territory.
they've been removed, because everytime dev implement real PvP, those who don't like PvP arn't comfortable. I'm sure there is no way to save PvP in this game(not talking about silly[imo] possibility to fight each others whithout conscequences in the persistant world).
the only solution is to set up a PvP server(no big deal, just have to Remove rules, so no more code to write).
I like the idea of policing the Cities. In the civilized cites the authorities should deal with violence. FOr instance when you enter Coronet you should have to put away your weapon. If you don't you are stopped and told too as soon as you enter the city. If you refuse or re-equip it then you get searched and arrested. Fines or "jail time" could be dependent on what faction controls the city and your current rank. Could be applied to everyone including neutrals. Authorities could also randomly search and arrest people for vegrancy if tehy stadn in one place soliciting all day long or arest docs for illegal meds if not used in the med center. These would all add tot he immersion we all desire and make it much funner to play and maybe even give smugglers a reason to exist.
just my 2 credits
Just my 2 cents
- I support fixing all the existing bugs, starting with the oldest bugs first, fixing the broken professions starting with Smuggler first and the attempt to make SWG a better game, before any new content is added!!!!
I like the idea of policing the Cities. In the civilized cites the authorities should deal with violence. FOr instance when you enter Coronet you should have to put away your weapon. If you don't you are stopped and told too as soon as you enter the city. If you refuse or re-equip it then you get searched and arrested. Fines or "jail time" could be dependent on what faction controls the city and your current rank. Could be applied to everyone including neutrals. Authorities could also randomly search and arrest people for vegrancy if tehy stadn in one place soliciting all day long or arest docs for illegal meds if not used in the med center. These would all add tot he immersion we all desire and make it much funner to play and maybe even give smugglers a reason to exist.
I like the principle of non-combat areas, but I agree that it would take some serious fleshing out to prevent exploits. I don't think in its current state it would be ready for release, but that's what the forums are for. It lets us take an incomplete idea (new ideas are almost never complete) and run with it. I don't know if the wrinkles could be ironed out, but it is worth some thought. The single biggest benefit I see in non-combat areas is lag reduction, since combat seems to introduce a lot of lag in busy areas. A good secondary benefit is prevention of griefing (killing players as they land, before they have a chance to regain control of their character, and predatory practices against newbies.)
I must say, I *really* like the alternative of holstering weapons in NPC cities and allowing the local security force and ST's to police it. Perhaps the regulation could only apply to large cities on developed planets and not outposts. From a role-playing standpoint, it makes sense, since outposts on undeveloped planets are dangerous places. People would be expected to protect themselves, since no security forces are around to protect them.
The only potential problems I see with this involve the Imperial crackdown--from both a Rebel and Imperial perspective. If a player rebel is scanned and attacked, returning fire will also draw local security forces down on the player. For a non-combatant such as myself, it doesn't mean anything. I'm cloning either way. For a combatant, it just increases the chance that he will die.
From the other side, it would be asking ST's to attack Imperial officer players if they unholster their weapons. Something seems fundamentally wrong with this, but I don't know of a good workaround.
"We're sorry, Colonel Rivawod," RKT-452 apologizes to the corpse of Grevnel Rivawod. "We saw the weapon and responded as ordered, sir. We didn't recognize that you were the one wielding it until after you were already dead."
On the other hand, I can't imagine anyone wanting only Imperials to be able to wield weapons in the NPC cities. The number of possible exploits of this would be staggering.
I think all of these ideas are good thoughts. They just need a few more good thoughts added to see if they are feasible.
Hylidex Lightstrider AFS Outfitters, League of all Factions and Species (LAFS) -6600, 4440, Theed, Naboo, Gorath
Opiacee wrote: battlefield was fun in a certain way, like a paint ball arena, where victory or defeat didn't have any effect in the world.
personally i don't miss them. I miss citywarn, faction scanner and these sort of tools, those which gives some sort of control on a said territory.
they've been removed, because everytime dev implement real PvP, those who don't like PvP arn't comfortable. I'm sure there is no way to save PvP in this game(not talking about silly[imo] possibility to fight each others whithout conscequences in the persistant world).
the only solution is to set up a PvP server(no big deal, just have to Remove rules, so no more code to write).
You have brought up a fundamental problem with SWG. While trying to open the door to everyone, including those who never PvP, those who only casually PvP, and those who want to constantly PvP, it seems that the groups themselves are at odds with each other. For me, personally, to use your analogy, PvP when I don't want it is like being hit by a paintball when I don't want it. I'm not a warrior. I'm a crafter. However, anyone without a faction affiliation loses access to a large segment of the game. I love PvE, but I've only willingly participated in PvP once in the past year. I'm only aligned so that I can have access to the quests involved with that alignment and stay with my friends while they do them. Force sensitivity without alignment seems to me to be nearly impossible.
However, there are also people who love the thrill of walking around under the shadow of danger all day long. Most of these people have combat masteries. They not only want to be vulnerable, but they want their enemy also to be vulnerable, and rightly so.
The game had a fairly workable solution to this in the covert status. If you wanted to be vulnerable, you stayed overt. Otherwise, you became covert and declared only when you felt like joining in.
The tef seems to be the troublesome area, and the area in which the two types of players collide. Hardcore PvPers see the tef as a usable tactic, hiding their ranks until the beginning of the assault. They love that it forces unwitting players into PvP, requiring them to be ready for battle at all times.
A crafter without a primary combat mastery sees the tef as a nuisance and a source for grief. Some of us die more often than the diehard PvPers. Some PvPers get no greater pleasure than griefing someone with no combat skills who happens to get tefed.
I have no great plan to bring these two together. I think there should be a place for both in SWG, but it is hard to determine how one can be accommodated without causing more grief to another.
One idea--idea not a proposal--is to have a deep covert status that can only be changed by an NPC officer and would require a long waiting period (an hour, perhaps). While deep covert, a player could not aid a tefed player or attack an aligned NPC. Faction affiliation would not show on harvesters or vehicles. They could be fined, but not tefed, (or perhaps only tefed and not declared) in the Imperial Crackdown. Again, this isn't a game proposal. It's just an off-the-cuff idea to kick around in our conversation.
As for non-combat areas, I would like to figure out a way to move the combat to places other than the front of the starport and the cantina--mainly to reduce lag in those areas. Many exploit possibilities have arisen, but most would also apply to current battlefields. I wonder why they are not already being exploited in the ways mentioned. I liked the idea of battlefields, but I agree that they are like paintball. Quite frankly, that is exactly the kind of PvP I would probably enjoy, and essentially the kind of PvP available in space, but again, that is not for everyone.
No flames, not even any real disagreement--just a few random thoughts.
Hylidex Lightstrider AFS Outfitters, League of all Factions and Species (LAFS) -6600, 4440, Theed, Naboo, Gorath
The only potential problems I see with this involve the Imperial crackdown--from both a Rebel and Imperial perspective. If a player rebel is scanned and attacked, returning fire will also draw local security forces down on the player. For a non-combatant such as myself, it doesn't mean anything. I'm cloning either way. For a combatant, it just increases the chance that he will die.
From the other side, it would be asking ST's to attack Imperial officer players if they unholster their weapons. Something seems fundamentally wrong with this, but I don't know of a good workaround.
"We're sorry, Colonel Rivawod," RKT-452 apologizes to the corpse of Grevnel Rivawod. "We saw the weapon and responded as ordered, sir. We didn't recognize that you were the one wielding it until after you were already dead."
LOL, had not thought of that, but could be easily fixed and even in the real world officers don't go around in civilized areas brandishing weapons. Also if they are overt then they should appear overt and holster their weapon. A simple delay could be added that when approached with a weapon in a civilized area (CNET, Theed, etc) you are asked at first to holster your weapon. You can comply, speak to the authority and inform him of your status in the service (instant covert status for overt players of the same faction and instant attack by non aligned factions), or refuse and get a TEF for the local security forces. If you refuse you can leave the city within 60 seconds and the tef will not become effective, if you choose to stay and not holster then you are attacked and punished. The tef would only be towards NPC of the local security and would not make you attackable by other players.
Just my 2 cents
- I support fixing all the existing bugs, starting with the oldest bugs first, fixing the broken professions starting with Smuggler first and the attempt to make SWG a better game, before any new content is added!!!!
Glzmo wrote: 4. People in non-combat zones cannot affect people outside these zones and vice versa This prevents people outside of non-combat zones from attacking people that are inside non-combat zones. It also prevents abuse of the non-combat zone boundary like medics, doctors and combat medics inside the non-combat zone healing combatants on the outside without being vulnerable to attack, trades from inside non-combat zones to the outside and other possible abuses of the non-combat zone. A modified version of the 'line of sight' code could be used for this.
Personally I think the presented solution is overly complex... line of sight calculations i mean.
I see a check more like this:
Inside-zone / attacker: Don't allow the person to enter combat, check against own zone status.
Outside-zone / attacker: Don't allow the persion to enter combat, check against opponents zone status
Again this is a bit simplified and not very thorough, but its basically my way of saying I think its a lot easier than using line of sight calculations :smiley:
Aefa Freesky / Areek Freesky / Aylana Freesky (All Cancelled) Co-founder of AE Medical
WoW - Shadowsong Server - Aefa - 60 Alliance Hunter
Glzmo wrote: 4. People in non-combat zones cannot affect people outside these zones and vice versa This prevents people outside of non-combat zones from attacking people that are inside non-combat zones. It also prevents abuse of the non-combat zone boundary like medics, doctors and combat medics inside the non-combat zone healing combatants on the outside without being vulnerable to attack, trades from inside non-combat zones to the outside and other possible abuses of the non-combat zone. A modified version of the 'line of sight' code could be used for this.
Personally I think the presented solution is overly complex... line of sight calculations i mean.
I see a check more like this:
Inside-zone / attacker: Don't allow the person to enter combat, check against own zone status.
Outside-zone / attacker: Don't allow the persion to enter combat, check against opponents zone status
Again this is a bit simplified and not very thorough, but its basically my way of saying I think its a lot easier than using line of sight calculations :smiley:
Thanks for the input. It occured to me that current (broken-) battlefield code could also be used to achieve this, as it looks like it does something similar like you suggest. I updated the point in the main post a little, as I think that line of sight can't be made working properly by the devs in this game anyway. Plus, the battlefield code is already in there, so it shouldn't be too hard to reuse
How 'bout this. Don't go overt or get a tef. We don't need safe zones. Houses are abused enough. Jedi should be hunted to extinction. If you don't like being hunted as a Jedi. Don't be a Jedi. Your suggestions would make the BH hunt next to impossible. If you are a Jedi, you should be able to handle your self by now. If not, join a guild that will protect you.
How 'bout this. Don't go overt or get a tef. We don't need safe zones. Houses are abused enough. Jedi should be hunted to extinction. If you don't like being hunted as a Jedi. Don't be a Jedi. Your suggestions would make the BH hunt next to impossible. If you are a Jedi, you should be able to handle your self by now. If not, join a guild that will protect you.
You are missing the point. The major cities are suppose to be civilized and they are not. Maybe forbid overt jedi from entering major cities. Better yet make jedi or anyone else that is overt, tefed, wanted have to use a smuggler to get in and out of major cities, what a novel idea something for a smuggler to smuggle???
LOL
Just my 2 cents
- I support fixing all the existing bugs, starting with the oldest bugs first, fixing the broken professions starting with Smuggler first and the attempt to make SWG a better game, before any new content is added!!!!
