The following is a vision of a new player bounty system that could make player bounties and being a bounty hunter and the hunted more enjoyable, competitive and true to the trade.
I recently re-read one of the Star Wars: Bounty Hunter Wars books and was subsequently thinking about how to improve the Bounty Hunter experience by tweaking and changing the current player bounty system and, bugfixes aside, what would have to change for me to enjoy playing a Bounty Hunter of the Star Wars Universe even more.
There doesn't seem to be much of true competition amongst Bounty Hunters really and many rather team up instead of being rivals for the reward.
Therefore I decided to post this thread, which I am planning to update as soon as I come up with new ideas. Feel free to discuss it, perhaps you can come up with good, constructive ideas that I can add and expand upon in this post. You never know, perhaps the devs will even listen to it and implement it. I call this collection of ideas
The Bounty Hunter Wars
1. Only Master Bounty Hunters can pick up player bounty missions (assuming the combat rebalance will even the playing field more).
2. A Master Bounty Hunter will be able to take one single Novice Bounty Hunter as an Apprentice at a time. A system similar to the current unity system could be used for that, but instead of trading rings, they would be trading weapons.
While the apprentice will not be able to take his own player bounties (see section 1.), he or she will be allowed to assist his/her Master in taking down his player Bounties, as long as both Master and Apprentice are in the same GCW faction (to prevent several exploits). Once the master attacks the mark or the rival (see later sections), the apprentice will have the choice to join the fight. When both Master and apprentice eliminate a mark together, the master gets 60% of the mission payout while the apprentice gets 40%, but the Apprentice gets 60% of the Investigation Experience and the Master gets only 40% (of course the ratio would have to be tweaked to give a good balance between risk and reward).
The Master/Apprentice system ends on the following conditions: The apprentice or the master destroys their Master/Apprentice weapon, the master kills the apprentice in a duel or vice versa, the master drops Master Bounty Hunter or the Apprentice becomes a master Bounty Hunter him-/herself.
After a Master/Apprentice relationship ends, both the Master and the Apprentice will not be able to take on a new Apprentice or become an apprentice to a Master Bounty Hunter for a period of one week to prevent exploiting. Also, all the Apprentice's mission related TEF's and instanced duel will be cleared, to eliminate another way of exploitation.
3.Change of the visibility system: There are fourtypes of visibility. One for each profession (Jedi, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter). Each is handled independently.
a.) Jedi visibility
- A Jedi gains Jedi visibility by using the force and/or his lightsaber in front of imperial NPCs and NPCs of the opposing faction
- Once a Jedi is seen using the force and/or his lightsaber by another player, Jedi visibility doesn't rise automatically. Instead, the player will have the option to use a 'Report Jedi' function in the radial menu or be able to use a function like /crimereport. Each player can do this for the same Jedi once per day. Only if a player chooses to do this, Jedi visibility rises. This prevents people who do not want to report Jedi from doing so and allows people who like to report them to do so in certainity and with some interactivity.
- When a Jedi is reported by another player, he should hear a distinct, yet subtle and unannoying sound as well as see a system message "You feel a disturbance in the Force. Somebody must have spotted you.".
- When the Jedi's Jedi visibility level raises to a set level, a bounty is offered for his head.
- Jedi visibility should decay at a slow but steady rate - The character that reports a Jedi (no matter if dark or light, civilian (neutral), rebel or imperial) should receive a little bit of imperial faction points (5, perhaps) and a small monetary reward from the Galactic Empire (maybe 100-200 credits)
b.) Smuggler visibility (will hopefully be implemented with the smuggler revamp)
- If a smuggler fails an NPC smuggling mission (by either being caught or even selling the cargo), he can choose to pay off his employer or persuade him to not take actions by using the fast talker skill (Jabba, for example). If the smuggler doesn't do this, his Smuggler visibility rises. The lower the skill of the smuggler, the higher the chance that his persuasion fails and he gains Smuggler visibility
- In case a smuggler fails a smuggling mission of contraband for another player (again by being caught by authorities or deliberately failing by keeping, dropping or selling the cargo), this player will have the option to report the smuggler, which will raise the smuggler's Smuggler visibility. Again, the smuggler can then barter with the player not to report him, pay him off or whatever they agree upon.
- When a Smuggler is reported by another player, he should hear a distinct, yet subtle and unannoying sound as well as see a system message "You have a bad feeling about this. Your failure has likely been reported."
- When the Smuggler's Smuggler visibility level raises to a set level, a bounty is offered for his head.
- Smuggler visibility should decay at a slow but steady rate
c.) Bounty Hunter visibility
- If a Bounty Hunter kills another Bounty Hunter to obtain the 'proof of successful bounty mission' that was rightfully the property of the latter, the killed and robbed Bounty Hunter can use the radial menu option 'Report Break of Creed' on the Master Bounty Hunter and his apprentice which generates Bounty Hunter visibility for the Bounty Hunter. (Also see point 10., 11.,12.)
- If a Bounty Hunter kills a mark of the same Galactic Civil War faction, his or her Bounty Hunter visibility rises and he looses faction points
- When a Bounty Hunter is reported by another player, he should hear a distinct, yet subtle and unannoying sound as well as see a system message "Something is wrong. Somebody must have reported your breach of creed."
- When the Bounty Hunter's Bounty Hunter visibility level raises to a set level, a bounty is offered for his head.
- Bounty Hunter visibility should decay at a slow but steady rate
4. Each player mark can have only one bounty on his or her head (that means a mission is generated at the Bounty Hunter Terminal) at a time for each visibility type (in case the mark has more than one of the three visibility generating professions. In the rare case a character is dabbling in all three visibility generating professions, he could have up to three simultaneous bounties on his head, one for each visibility type). The number of Bounty Hunters that can pick up the same mission is limited. It as well as the (hopefully substantial) monetary reward for it are dependant on the combat level of the mark (3-10 Bounty Hunters can pick a mission on the same mark at a time, the higher the combat level of the mark, the more Bounty Hunters can pick up a mission on him or her at the same time).
5. Bounty Hunters with a mission on the same player mark will be able to attack each other (as they are rivals for one and the same bounty) as soon as they start their tracking droid or enter a certain radius around their mark (possibly 2000 meters) to prevent terminal camping. The exception to this is when the other Bounty Hunter is locked in an instanced duel with his target or another rival.
6. Once a Bounty Hunter engages his or her mark in combat, the two combatants are locked in an "instanced duel". Both duelists will receive a system message indicating that they are now locked in an instanced duel. As long as they are battling anywhere but in a static city or POI, they will be completely locked out of other combat with anybody else, including NPCs, mobs and other players of any kind (similar to the instanced duels known from Jedi Outcast/Jedi Academy multiplayer) - with one exception: the apprentices/Padawans of both the Bounty Hunter and the mark may join the fight to aid their respective masters). This state will be broken in the following cases: the distance between the two becomes too great (more than 500 meters, for example) they are not in combat for 5 minutes or more (enough time to talk about options in a RP-fashion), enter a static city/POI, the BH drops his mission or when one of them is defeated. When one of these events occurs, both get a system message that their instanced duel has been ended and they will be attackable by- and be able to attack the- same player characters/Mobs/NPCs like they were before the instanced duel.
7.Mission terminals do not list player names and/or payouts anymore to prevent griefing and exploiting (money duping, holding the mission of a friend or PA member, etc.). In return, they should at least list faction, wether they are special forces or not, and online status.
8.A Master Bounty Hunter will only get mission for marks whose combat level is in a range of +-15 above or below the Bounty Hunter's own combat level to ensure good and fair fights for all levels of Bounty Hunters and marks. In case the Apprentice has a higher combat level than the Master, the missions will be listed according to the higher combat level of the two to prevent exploiting.
9.Only special forces Bounty Hunters can hunt special forces marks of the opposing GCW faction. That means if a mark is PVP-enabled, the Bounty Hunter will have to be of the opposing PVP-enabled faction as well to get the mission in the first place and be able to attack it. The reward for bounties that are members of the opposing faction special forces will be considerably higher to warrant the higher risk involved for the Bounty Hunter.
10. Once the Bounty Hunter or his apprentice are killed by his mark or a Bounty Hunter rival with the same mission mark, the mission fails for this particular bounty hunter. He cannot pick up another mission for the same mark and is out of the race (until a new mission for the same mark is issued). Also all TEFs related to this mission are cleared upon death and the instanced duel is ended for all involved (also applies for the Apprentice of the mission holder).
11. As soon as a Bounty Hunter aborts his mission, all his and his apprentice's mission related TEFs are cleared and he fails the mission. If this happens in the middle of the mission, combat is terminated immediately, the instanced duel is ended and all mission specific TEFs are cleared as well (for both the Master Bounty Hunter and his/her Apprentice if applicable).
12. When all Bounty Hunters with the mission on a mark are killed, only the visibility type that the mission was triggered from is reset to a certain value from 0%-85% for this mark (with 100% being the percentage that triggers being put on the Bounty Hunter Terminal again), depending on how high the level of the mark and mission was and how many Bounty Hunters had to be eliminated (the higher the mission level, the higher the percentage the visibility is reset to. 0% for a very low level mark, 85% for the highest level mark). All mission related TEFs are cleared and he is off the Bounty Hunter mission terminals for this visibility type until the visibility level rises back to the level that triggers another mission.
13. If the mark is killed by either the mission holder or his apprentice, the mark's visibility of the type that triggered the mission is also reset to 0, all his mission related TEFs are cleared and he is off the bounty hunter mission terminals for the paticular visibility type. When a mark is killed by a bounty hunter due to a mission because of Smuggler visibility, the level and thus the payout of smuggler missions the Smuggler that was the mark can take will decrease for a certain amount of time (a day, perhaps).
When a mark is killed by a bounty hunter due to a mission because Bounty Hunter visibility, the payout of Bounty Hunter missions Bounty Hunter that was the mark can take will decrease for a certain amount of time (two days, perhaps). In case the defeated mark is a smuggler, his smuggler mission payouts will decrease for the same amount of time as well.
This is to simulate the 'loss of trust' as well us to give marked Smugglers as well as Bounty Hunters something to loose, so they won't just let themselves be killed without putting up a fight and/or duping credits.
14. Once a Bounty Hunter (or his Apprentice) kills his mark, he gets a 'proof of successful bounty mission' (containing data such as target name, value and such) in his inventory, with a DNA sample of the mark (perhaps even a finger, scalp or something else). This object would be undroppable and unbankable.
To finally collect the bounty, this certificate has to be brought to the NPC that issued the bounty, like Jabba for a smuggler who failed an assignment for him or Emperor Palpatine himself for a high level Jedi. For each mission, you can bring the certificate to several different locations, so your rivals will not know exactly where you are headed beforehand
15. As soon as one Bounty Hunter kills his mark, all other Bounty Hunters that still had the same mission (they weren't killed by the mark or a rivaling bounty hunter and/or his apprentice and didn't drop the mission) do not fail it. Instead, the tracking droids now track the Bounty Hunter that has the 'proof of successful bounty mission' for their deceased mark.
When you launch the droid and it detects that he is no longer tracking the actual mark, you will get a system message that indicates that the mark has been assassinated and the droid is now tracking the proof. Each time you use the droid and it detects a new carrier of proof, you will get a system message that tells you that.
Once another Bounty Hunter kills the one with this 'proof of successful bounty mission', the mission fails for the killed hunter and the 'successful bounty certificate' is transferred to the inventory of his assassin (It should be also transferred, if the killed bounty hunter had it stashed away inside one of his droids). The bounty hunter with the newly 'aquired' 'proof of successful bounty mission' now has to reach the mission giver NPC to collect his bounty. Once a Bounty Hunter aquires the 'proof of successful bounty mission' by killing a fellow bounty hunter that has had it before and thus ignoring the Bounty Hunter's Creed, he would gain visibility and eventually land on the terminals and be hunted himself.
16. The 'proof of successful bounty mission' can also be traded and sold to other characters, including non-bounty hunters. Once the proof has been traded, the mission of the bounty hunter that gave away the proof fails, and he (and his apprentice, if applicable) looses all TEFs to and from the other Bounty Hunters with the same mission.
Once a character aquires the 'proof of successful bounty mission' by trade, the mission to bring it to the mission giver NPC will also transfer to them as well as the TEFs for all Bounty Hunters that are still in the race for this particular mark. Also, the tracking droids of the latter will now track the holder of this 'proof of successful bounty mission'.
Auhal wrote: All sounds great apart from 1) I think moving them to invest 4 wouldn't be a bad idea, but let people dabble if they want to.
Interesting point. I thought it would be nice to have player bounties as high-end content for Master Bounty Hunters to make mastering the profession worth to achieve. I would like to hear a few more views of the community to see what everybody would prefer and why, so feel free to share what you think on this and the rest of the points in the main post.
There are some original ideas here but I think it would protect the Jedi a bit too much, here are my thoughts on your thoughts :
1.You probably mean Jedi BH missions here, I think that could be fair but then they also have to make the LLC better cause you would lose to much skill points going Master BH and we all know a Master BH without extra Fighting Professions sucks at this time
2. a) I think this would protect the Jedi a bit too much, so there will probably only be one or two Jedi on the BH Terminals a day. If you are a Bounty Hunter then you know doing a Jedi mission is for a lot of Bounty Hunters THE reason to become a BH in the first place. And who would want to become a BH if you have almost no chance of doing Jedi Missions. It would make it more realistic but it would completely ruin the Bounty Hunter profession
b) Well I do agree here that Jedi shouldnt be the only player targets on a BH terminal, some smugglers who have failed or Overt Opposite faction players could be a possibility here.
3. I think this sounds fair, however there should be the possibility that a couple of Bounty Hunters are chasing against the time just to be the first to kil his target.
4. I dont think there should be too much rivalry between the Bounty Hunters, and it wouldnt be fair cause the best Bounty Hunter of the server will just kill his rivals every single time which might cause groups of other Bounty Hunters working together just to kill this one strong rival Bounty Hunter (which could cause a hunt for Bounty Hunters instead of Jedis)
5. I think there should be the possibility to work together with other Bounty Hunters to take a mark down, this could be limited though. But I think most of the true Bounty Hunters prefer to work alone these days, cause the money is still important.
6. It sounds fair that you cannot take the same mission for a while, maybe a timer of 2 or 3 hours could help this?
7. Sounds normal
8. This would make it hard for the Bounty Hunters and even easier for the Jedis
9. Sounds logical
10. This could make the Bounty Hunter missions very long and even harder, I think the reward could be a bit higher in this case.
11. Like said before, this would start a war between Bounty Hunters instead of between Jedis and Bounty Hunters. I dont think Bounty Hunters should be killing each other all the time, this would be way to easy for a 'hard profession' like the Jedi
12. Very original but I think Bounty Hunters wouldnt use this option much cause who wants to kill a target and lose the price money (unless its of course sold by a high price like you suggested).
Few things. As part of being a Bounty Hunter you should have to memorize the Bounty Hunters Creed. Yes there is a Creed.
Part of it states that you can't kill another Bounty Hunter if 1) They aren't obstructing or trying to take your mark, or 2) If they have already taken the mark or killed it. Meaning they couldn't be assasinated for the proof.
Jedi shouldn't be left to just Master Bounty Hunters, but ony Master BH's should be able to tackle full Jedi. The smuggler thing is a GREAT idea though. I mean that's part of the movies, with Han being hunted and stuff.
Another thing about the Creed though says that a Bounty Hunter should never take sides. (Meaning Factions) Too many things defy part of what the SWU is about. Especially with Bounty Hunters. The creed should be a very real part of the game. You should be quized by the trainer after a certain point in you BH career, preventing people from dabbling in anything but the Investigation branch. We don't want people dabbling in the LLC branch because if they do, and they're not true Bounty Hunters, then they just do it for the weapons advantage, which only the Bounty Hunter should be able to use. Also the idea where only a certain amount of BH's can take a mark is slightly faulty. Yes only a certain amount should be able to take a mark, but it should be based on what kind of profession(s) they have how long they've avoided being caught and how much the base bounty was worth and it shouldn't have a limit. Limits just mean that you just take the Bounties you think will get huge and then hope noone else takes it. Another good idea is Bounty Hunters on the same mark can't group. One thing is that for non-Jedi, there should be a limit to who can take the Bounty. You shouldn't have a 1 day old Bounty Hunter taking a 1 million credit bounty and just getting in everyones way.
"Just think about the implications of what you're doing, you could ruin the space time continuum, you could destry the ship you could" "Whoa Whoa WHOA! Nick, this isn't Star TREK it's Star WARS!" "I knew that..."
Gizmo, I loved your FRS system. However, your BH system leaves a whole lot to be desired. Let me offer some counterpoints here.
Devs have said they have no plans to institute this as they encourage the dabbling of BHs. Clearly shown to be the case by the reduction in skill points. Will the CB/CR/CU change this, who in the heck knows?
I may be missing something, but vis is now working as intended since they let the "cat out of the bag" in regards to what trips vis. I know that vis currently kills your vision of the FRS by stifling Master/Padawan bonding, but as of this moment, it appears to be working. As far as Smugglers are concerned, that sounds exactly like the system Green marine thought up, so I am not touching that one.
As Bounty Hunters go, they are all entirely freelance and all after the same thing, a la the book you spoke of. You can have every BH in the galaxy going after the same mark. Still only one bounty, but many hunters.
Chaos, good for the mark, bad for the system. First come, first served I say. I am not going to shoot someone for getting there first. I still lose the bounty, what's the point? The TEF system is already screwy as it is, I say let's not clutter it up with more problems. I like the RP aspect of it as every BH in the galaxy was after Solo and tried to stop Fett from bringing his carbonite encased body back to Jabba. The only problem with this is that there are so many player bounties, this is more than likely an issue that will never raise it's head. Hell, I have only run into a BH once after a mark. He just loaded in after I finished the job.
I would gladly address this IF Bounty Hunters stood a chance against a Jedi solo. As it stands now, if you are Master Saber, the odds are severely against me killing you. Add some defender in there, I have no chance. Sure, you can use bomb droids and what have you, but I follow the Sun Tzu addage of fighting battles I know I can win. I usually go alone, but against higher priced FRS Jedi, alone=dead.
I can agree with point 6. Say a timer of 24 hours.
In the past, I have had a TEF for a half an hour after aborting a mission and seeing the Mark in question finally logon. Needsafixin'.
I counter with saying after a certain amount of Bounty Hunters killed, we either have the "Bounty Gods" at SOE up the ante to bring along more BHs or call out the Digiteers (read Fett or Vader) to deal with said mark. If you have visibility and are not hiding, you should be killed. It was careless of you, you should pay the price. Before the "Dark Siders" jump on the "Vader wouldn't hunt me, I am Imperial" I have this to say. Vader was responsible for wiping out all of the Jedi. ALL, not some. You are just as dead by his hands.
I believe this is working as intended. You may know better here.
As far as 10, 11, and 12 go, I like this idea, however, it may be beyond the system we have in place. Not sure how complex that would be to design and code and magically make hapen. (Or whatever it is game developers do).
All in all Giz, well thought out, but many areas favor more one side than the other, in my opinion. Good job with the FRS, so so here.
The following is a vision of a new player bounty system that could make player bounties and being a bounty hunter and the hunted more enjoyable, competitive and true to the trade.
I recently re-read one of the Star Wars: Bounty Hunter Wars books and was subsequently thinking about how to improve the Bounty Hunter experience by tweaking and changing the current player bounty system and what would have to change for me to want to enjoy playing a Bounty Hunter of the Star Wars Universe.
There doesn't seem to be much of true competition amongst Bounty Hunters really and many rather team up instead of being rivals for the reward.
Therefore I decided to post this thread, which I am planning to update as soon as I come up with new ideas. Feel free to discuss it, perhaps you can come up with good, constructive ideas that I can add and expand upon in this post. You never know, perhaps the devs will even listen to it and implement it. I call this idea
The Bounty Hunter Wars
1. Only Master Bounty Hunters can pick up player bounty missions.
2.Change of the visibility system:
a.) Jedi visibility
- A Jedi gains visibility by using the force and/or his lightsaber in front of imperial NPCs and NPCs of the opposing faction
- Once a Jedi is seen using the force and/or his lightsaber by another player, visibility doesn't rise automatically. Instead, the player will have the option to use a 'Report Jedi' function in the radial menu or be able to use a function like /crimereport. Each player can do this for the same Jedi once per day. Only if a player chooses to do this visibility of the Jedi rises. This prevents people who do not want to report Jedi from doing so and allows people who like to report them to do so in certainity and with some interactivity.
- A Jedi automatically doesn't gain visibility from group members, guild members, people that have the Jedi on their friendlist, bounty hunters with a mission on them and other Jedi. They will not get the option in the radial menu.
- When a Jedi is reported by another player, he should get a quick system message 'You sense you have been betrayed...'
- When the Jedi's visibility level raises to a set level, a bounty is offered for his head.
- Jedi visibility should decay at a slow but steady rate
b.) Smuggler visibility (will hopefully be implemented with the smuggler revamp)
- If a smuggler fails an NPC smuggling mission (by either being caught or even selling the cargo), he can choose to pay off his employer or persuade him to not take actions by using the fast talker skill (Jabba, for example). If the smuggler doesn't do this, his visibility rises. The lower the skill of the smuggler, the higher the chance that his persuasion fails and he gains visibility
- In case a smuggler fails a smuggling mission of contraband for another player (again by being caught by authorities or deliberately failing by keeping, dropping or selling the cargo), this player will have the option to report the smuggler, which will raise the smuggler's visibility. Again, the smuggler can then barter with the player not to report him, pay him off or whatever they agree upon.
- When a Smuggler is reported by another player, he should get a quick system message 'Your gut feeling tells you your employer might be angry at you...'
- When the Smuggler's visibility level raises to a set level, a bounty is offered for his head.
- Smuggler visibility should decay at a slow but steady rate
3. Each player mark can have only one bounty on his or her head at a time. The number of Bounty Hunters that can pick up the same mission is limited. It as well as the (hopefully substantial) monetary reward for it are dependant on the skill of the mark (3-15 Bounty Hunters can pickup a mission on the same mark at a time, the higher the level of the mark, the more Bounty Hunters can pick up a mission on him at the same time).
4. Bounty Hunters with a mission on the same player mark receive a TEF for each other as they are rivals for one and the same bounty.
5. Bounty Hunters with the same mission are prohibited from grouping with each other. If only one of them has the mission on the same mark, they can group, but when they both have the same mission, they get a message 'cannot group with a rival'. Once a bounty hunter is grouped with a bounty hunter that already has a mission, he cannot pick up the same mission as his groupmate or is automatically kicked out of the group when accepting this mission.
6. Once a bounty Hunter is killed by his mark or a Bounty Hunter rival with the same mission mark, the mission fails for this particular bounty hunter. He cannot pickup another mission for the same mark and is out of the race (until a new mission for the same mark is issued). Also all TEFs related to this mission are cleared upon death.
7. Once a Bounty Hunter aborts his mission, all his mission related TEFs are cleared and he fails the mission.
8. When all bounty hunters with the mission on a mark are killed, visibility is reset to 0 for the mark, all mission related TEFs are cleared and he is off the terminals until the visibility level rises back to the level that triggers another mission.
9. If the mark is killed, his visibility is also reset to 0, all his mission related TEFs are cleared and he is off the bounty hunter mission terminal.
10. Once a Bounty Hunter kills his mark, he gets a 'proof of successful bounty mission' (containing data such as target name, value and such) in his inventory, with a DNA sample of the mark (perhaps even a finger, scalp or something else).
To finally collect the bounty, this certificate has to be brought to the NPC that issued the bounty, like Jabba for a smuggler who failed an assignment for him or Emperor Palpatine himself for a high level Jedi. For each mission, you can bring the certificate to several different locations, so your rivals will not know exactly where you are headed beforehand.
11. As soon as one Bounty Hunter kills his mark, all other Bounty Hunters that still had the same mission (they weren't killed by the mark or a rivaling bounty hunter and didn't drop the mission) do not fail it. Instead, the tracking droids now track the Bounty Hunter that has the 'proof of successful bounty mission' for their deceased mark. Once another Bounty Hunter kills the one with this 'proof of successful bounty mission', the mission fails for the killed hunter and the 'successful bounty certificate' is transferred to the inventory of his assassin. The bounty hunter with the newly 'aquired' 'proof of successful bounty mission' now has to reach the mission giver NPC to collect his bounty.
12. The 'proof of successful bounty mission' can also be traded and sold to other characters, including non-bounty hunters. Once the proof has been traded, the mission of the bounty hunter that gave away the proof fails, and he looses all TEFs to and from the other Bounty Hunters with the same mission.
Once a character aquires the 'proof of successful bounty mission' by trade, the mission to bring it to the mission giver NPC will also transfer to them as well as the TEF for all Bounty Hunters that are still in the race for this particular mark. Also, the tracking droids of the latter will now track the holder of this 'proof of successful bounty mission'.
Message Edited by Glzmo on 11-14-200404:00 AM
I respectfully dissagree with many of these ideas.
1. I think its ok for Dabblers to be able to hunt PC's, Jedi's, or whatever. Maybe make it IV but surely not master.
2a. This is crazy who is going to report a Jedi? oh yeah I guess thats the point. Jedi NEVER want to become visible. Why don't you come up with a cloak of Jedi invisibility to fight visibility.
3. Depending on the numbers is very vunerable to explotation by Jedi and I am SURE you can figure out what I mean by that. Also if you are a Smuggler/Jedi you should be able to have 2 different Bounties at the same time. Also if you ARE Jedi/Smuggler and a BH kills you then you NEED to have Jedi Penalty dunno if that was stated for the completeion of the mark otherwise there is a VERY NICE exploit that is possible for Jedi.
4. Bounty Hunters don't fight Bounty Hunters it's a long standing rule honor amoung thieves kinda thing. Read bout Boba and Bossk(my mind just died and I think I spelled his name wrong grrr...)even though they were hated rivals and went after the same mark they didn't use that as an opportunity to dust the other off.
5. Then Jedi don't get to aid in defense of the Jedi being attacked, otherwise one group is as bad as another group.
6. I think perserverence should be rewarded.
8. Exactly the opposite... if the Jedi defeats all Bounty Hunters then the Bounty on the Jedi should INCREASE seeing as that is what would happen. Jabba didn't care if a BH died while on mission he just got another BH and offered him more money.
9. DB.. not just killed. Also FD doesn't remove Visibility nor does incap and rezz.
10. You want BH to have more busy work?
11. Bounty Hunters DONT attack other Bounty Hunters this is a LAME idea I have NO IDEA why you thought that this would be good.
12. I don't really get this idea at all...
Honestly I think these ideas are filled with a LOT of holes that could EASILY be turned into more JEDI EXPLOITS.
I also think there is an odd misconseption that Bounty Hunters would/should hunt each other. That is NOT what Bounty Hunters do.
Please rethink these ideas. Most are rather bogus.
The biggest problem with moving the Jedi/player hunting to Master Bounty Hunter is that the Master Bounty Hunter has no chance if that's the must have template and that the lest over points are not enough to complete the current template to make it more competitive. Then I agree that Invest IV would be a better alternative, currently Invest III might be too easy.
I dislike the idea of Jedi visibility being interactive. The Jedi should simply be careful with visibility, it should not be a reason for extra protection from those that happen to side with Jedi. If you're seen, then that's that.
I like the smuggler ideas.
As for a TEF on fellow bounty hunters, I don't really like that idea. I think it should just be a matter of who's first and that's it. I personaly don't like the idea to hunt a fellow bounty hunter.
Not grouping due to same mark is a horrible idea. At some point it's in fact the only way to take on certain bounties. I really dislike this idea. Again, I became a bounty hunter to hunt bounties, not to start a clash with fellow bounty hunters.
Soon we get caught up on so much rivalry and hunting after proof that in the end all we hunt are fellow bounty hunters. No the rest of the ideas are not something that would improve the player bounty system for me.
--- "I don't mind flying, but what you're doing is suicide!"
There are some original ideas here but I think it would protect the Jedi a bit too much, here are my thoughts on your thoughts :
1.You probably mean Jedi BH missions here, I think that could be fair but then they also have to make the LLC better cause you would lose to much skill points going Master BH and we all know a Master BH without extra Fighting Professions sucks at this time
The combat revamp/rebalance should accomodate this. But yes, perhaps a skill based system on how difficult a mark you could take would be good...I will think about that.
2. a) I think this would protect the Jedi a bit too much, so there will probably only be one or two Jedi on the BH Terminals a day. If you are a Bounty Hunter then you know doing a Jedi mission is for a lot of Bounty Hunters THE reason to become a BH in the first place.
That is a problem. They should be doing it for the money and because it is their job, maybe for the thrill of the hunt even, not because they want to kill Jedi.
And who would want to become a BH if you have almost no chance of doing Jedi Missions. It would make it more realistic but it would completely ruin the Bounty Hunter profession
Not if smugglers will have bounties on their heads. Smuggler bounties should be the norm, Jedi bounties should be a special achievement to complete with a comparably huge reward.
b) Well I do agree here that Jedi shouldnt be the only player targets on a BH terminal, some smugglers who have failed or Overt Opposite faction players could be a possibility here.
Smugglers have wanted to be hunted for a long time, as this is how it is in the Star Wars Universe and should be in this game.
3. I think this sounds fair, however there should be the possibility that a couple of Bounty Hunters are chasing against the time just to be the first to kill his target.
Of course.
4. I dont think there should be too much rivalry between the Bounty Hunters,
Why not? In the Bounty Hunter Wars books it is that way, also if you have ever seen that bounty hunter series called renegade, there have always been competing bounty hunters in there.
and it wouldnt be fair cause the best Bounty Hunter of the server will just kill his rivals every single time which might cause groups of other Bounty Hunters working together just to kill this one strong rival Bounty Hunter (which could cause a hunt for Bounty Hunters instead of Jedis)
Well, you want all the rewards without risk, huh? But this would be the very essence of Star Wars Bounty hunting, kill your rival and collect the bounty all for yourself instead of having to deal with the actual mark, wouldn't it? Also, Bounty Hunters force others into PVP, so I guess they like PVP if they are doing player bounties, so there should be no harm in duking it out for the reward and getting ambushed, especially since they don't really loose much, but have much to gain.
5. I think there should be the possibility to work together with other Bounty Hunters to take a mark down, this could be limited though. But I think most of the true Bounty Hunters prefer to work alone these days, cause the money is still important.
And it should be.
6. It sounds fair that you cannot take the same mission for a while, maybe a timer of 2 or 3 hours could help this?
It's only fair if you cannot take the same mission that you failed on the same target over and over and over again.
7. Sounds normal
8. This would make it hard for the Bounty Hunters and even easier for the Jedis
It will give marks a chance to fight for their freedom and get a sense of victory. Do you prefer they stay on the terminals eternally and get hunted over and over and over again until they let themselves be killed? With the slow decay of visibility right now (3 weeks of inactivity, which is far too much) this is a very real problem. Besides, killing all the Bounty Hunters after the mark may very well be quite hard, unless you are tricky and let them be so dumb to kill each other before one of them gets you.
9. Sounds logical
10. This could make the Bounty Hunter missions very long and even harder, I think the reward could be a bit higher in this case.
Of course it would. It would make the missions a challenge. And since Bounty Hunter missions will be the best paid thing to do when the group mission reward fix hits, it should be long and hard. Also, with a lower level mark, you won't have so many rivals and a weaker mark to deal with, but be paid less as well (Still a very good payoff). All in all, I believe player Bounties as well as player smuggling missions later on would be the best paid in the game, as they would involve much risk in form of PVP threats.
11. Like said before, this would start a war between Bounty Hunters instead of between Jedis and Bounty Hunters. I dont think Bounty Hunters should be killing each other all the time, this would be way to easy for a 'hard profession' like the Jedi
See, you have to consider that not all Bounty Hunters that have a mission on the Jedi will probably be online at the same time, which will make it easier than you think most of the time. And a little risk is nice and fun as well.
12. Very original but I think Bounty Hunters wouldnt use this option much cause who wants to kill a target and lose the price money (unless its of course sold by a high price like you suggested).
Well, if you know another Bounty Hunter that is very strong or has a strong group with him is after you and you just barely escaped, you could just sell it off for less money and live with it, while the buyer would then be subject to the attack by your pursuer! I think this sounds like much fun, and would be a nice challenge. Of course, who would be so dumb to paint a bullseye on his chest...for all the credits...perhaps.
11. Bounty Hunters DONT attack other Bounty Hunters this is a LAME idea I have NO IDEA why you thought that this would be good.
Actually, you're wrong. There is several stories where BHs hunt each other, in example Valarian BHs hunting down a BH working for Jabba. I think it's a great idea, the BH missions shouldnt be a walk in the park. It should be hard, rough and really exciting for both parts. When a BH takes a mission he should know that theres a good chance he'll die.
____________ Col. Eghate Othmo - CO KDS N-Corp - LIA Division Commander Issali Othmo - 12pt Master Chef Loldo Iwai - Dark Jedi Enforcer SarDuKar Always a Keeper of the DarkSide Cancelled after CU, Currently in WoW, Burning Legion EU
Few things. As part of being a Bounty Hunter you should have to memorize the Bounty Hunters Creed. Yes there is a Creed.
Part of it states that you can't kill another Bounty Hunter if 1) They aren't obstructing or trying to take your mark, or 2) If they have already taken the mark or killed it. Meaning they couldn't be assasinated for the proof.
Jedi shouldn't be left to just Master Bounty Hunters, but ony Master BH's should be able to tackle full Jedi. The smuggler thing is a GREAT idea though. I mean that's part of the movies, with Han being hunted and stuff.
Another thing about the Creed though says that a Bounty Hunter should never take sides. (Meaning Factions) Too many things defy part of what the SWU is about. Especially with Bounty Hunters. The creed should be a very real part of the game. You should be quized by the trainer after a certain point in you BH career, preventing people from dabbling in anything but the Investigation branch. We don't want people dabbling in the LLC branch because if they do, and they're not true Bounty Hunters, then they just do it for the weapons advantage, which only the Bounty Hunter should be able to use. Also the idea where only a certain amount of BH's can take a mark is slightly faulty. Yes only a certain amount should be able to take a mark, but it should be based on what kind of profession(s) they have how long they've avoided being caught and how much the base bounty was worth and it shouldn't have a limit. Limits just mean that you just take the Bounties you think will get huge and then hope noone else takes it. Another good idea is Bounty Hunters on the same mark can't group. One thing is that for non-Jedi, there should be a limit to who can take the Bounty. You shouldn't have a 1 day old Bounty Hunter taking a 1 million credit bounty and just getting in everyones way.
Where can I find info on the complete creed for bounty hunters? This is the first time I read about it *blush*
Also, I have no problem with dabblers whatsoever. It just makes clear how much the MBH as a class on its own is lacking, much work needs to be done so that it wouldn't be necessary to pick what's best to actually survive.
Then again, it's the player's responsibility alone on how he devides the skillpoints. A novice bounty hunter is still a bounty hunter. *shrug*
--- "I don't mind flying, but what you're doing is suicide!"
According to the Bounty Hunters creed or whatever they are not supposed to hunt each other.
Are there times when this might occure sure.. especailly between a heated rivalry.
I am not certain which book you are referring to please tell me the title.
I usually like to consider the Big Named Bounty Hunter as more the rule than the excpetion.. I guess you can disagree if you like since both references are non-cannon.
Bounty Hunters ARENT supposed to hunt each other.. It's in VERY bad form to carry out personal attacks on other proffessionals.
All in all Giz, well thought out, but many areas favor more one side than the other, in my opinion. Good job with the FRS, so so here.
Of course it's not as advanced as the FRS post, but neither was that post when I started it months ago. I don't mind evolving this like I did with the FRS post with the help of the Bounty Hunters, as they, just like Smugglers and Jedi are three of the main things that define Star Wars, IMHO.
In canon, Bounty Hunters fight each other for high bounties all the time, so I think they should also do it in the game.
Whatever many of you may thing, this thing isn't biased toward neither Jedi nor Smugglers, it is how I feel it would make Bounty Hunter more exciting.
I do expect bounty hunters to have a better chance in fights against Jedi after the combat rebalance as well, and this might have tainted my post a bit. I will make changes as soon as more information is available, though
1. Only Master Bounty Hunters can pick up player bounty missions.
Agreed. But I don't think this will come around until we see what will actully happen with the combat revamp. IMHO I feel that most people wanting to keep player bounty missions in 3xxx is because of the amout of BHs going melee. A fix for this would be to drop one of the ranged lines in BH for a BH only melee tree (I know there are a thousand things invloved but you get the general idea)
2.Change of the visibility system:
a.) Jedi visibility
- A Jedi gains visibility by using the force and/or his lightsaber in front of imperial NPCs and NPCs of the opposing faction
Just so I am sure I understand this:
Rebel (light) Jedi
Imp NPC = Visibility
Rebel NPC = No Visibility
Imperial (dark) Jedi
Imp NPC = Visibility
Rebel NPC = Visibility
- Once a Jedi is seen using the force and/or his lightsaber by another player, visibility doesn't rise automatically. Instead, the player will have the option to use a 'Report Jedi' function in the radial menu or be able to use a function like /crimereport. Each player can do this for the same Jedi once per day. Only if a player chooses to do this visibility of the Jedi rises. This prevents people who do not want to report Jedi from doing so and allows people who like to report them to do so in certainity and with some interactivity.
Great idea depending on how much visibility rises per report
- A Jedi automatically doesn't gain visibility from group members, guild members, people that have the Jedi on their friendlist, bounty hunters with a mission on them and other Jedi. They will not get the option in the radial menu.
The only problem I have here is letting the player make a list of people that do not generate visibility for him..i.e. the friendslist part. On a side note, I do feel that Jedi getting visibility from hunting with other same faction Jedi is about the stupidest idea I have ever heard of....who are they supposed to hunt with?...I digress
- When a Jedi is reported by another player, he should get a quick system message 'You sense you have been betrayed...'
I disagree with this only because one stop in Theed or Coronet prime time on a friday night would probably result in about a hundred system messages in about 20 secs.
- When the Jedi's visibility level raises to a set level, a bounty is offered for his head.
- Jedi visibility should decay at a slow but steady rate
agreed ..... this "should" have already been the case by now.
b.) Smuggler visibility (will hopefully be implemented with the smuggler revamp)
- If a smuggler fails an NPC smuggling mission (by either being caught or even selling the cargo), he can choose to pay off his employer or persuade him to not take actions by using the fast talker skill (Jabba, for example). If the smuggler doesn't do this, his visibility rises. The lower the skill of the smuggler, the higher the chance that his persuasion fails and he gains visibility
Great idea..would love to hear more on this. For example, as it stands now fast talker is a single box ability (meaning there is no way to raise it). Would the chance of success raise the higher up the underworld tree the the smuggler is? I also think the cap (if it is going to act as a skill mod) should be capped at 70% at master sumggler. This is keep down players taking missions and always selling the stuff for higher price then the mission reward, of course there are other ways to get around that.
- In case a smuggler fails a smuggling mission of contraband for another player (again by being caught by authorities or deliberately failing by keeping, dropping or selling the cargo), this player will have the option to report the smuggler, which will raise the smuggler's visibility. Again, the smuggler can then barter with the player not to report him, pay him off or whatever they agree upon.
Interesting....what player classes would be able to hire a smuggler? And why would a player class want to hire a smuggler?
- When a Smuggler is reported by another player, he should get a quick system message 'Your gut feeling tells you your employer might be angry at you...'
disagree....same reason as above
- When the Smuggler's visibility level raises to a set level, a bounty is offered for his head.
- Smuggler visibility should decay at a slow but steady rate
3. Each player mark can have only one bounty on his or her head at a time. The number of Bounty Hunters that can pick up the same mission is limited. It as well as the (hopefully substantial) monetary reward for it are dependant on the skill of the mark (3-15 Bounty Hunters can pickup a mission on the same mark at a time, the higher the level of the mark, the more Bounty Hunters can pick up a mission on him at the same time).
4. Bounty Hunters with a mission on the same player mark receive a TEF for each other as they are rivals for one and the same bounty.
5. Bounty Hunters with the same mission are prohibited from grouping with each other. If only one of them has the mission on the same mark, they can group, but when they both have the same mission, they get a message 'cannot group with a rival'. Once a bounty hunter is grouped with a bounty hunter that already has a mission, he cannot pick up the same mission as his groupmate or is automatically kicked out of the group when accepting this mission.
6. Once a bounty Hunter is killed by his mark or a Bounty Hunter rival with the same mission mark, the mission fails for this particular bounty hunter. He cannot pickup another mission for the same mark and is out of the race (until a new mission for the same mark is issued). Also all TEFs related to this mission are cleared upon death.
7. Once a Bounty Hunter aborts his mission, all his mission related TEFs are cleared and he fails the mission.
8. When all bounty hunters with the mission on a mark are killed, visibility is reset to 0 for the mark, all mission related TEFs are cleared and he is off the terminals until the visibility level rises back to the level that triggers another mission.
9. If the mark is killed, his visibility is also reset to 0, all his mission related TEFs are cleared and he is off the bounty hunter mission terminal.
Just a quick question here...what happens if a mark has a bounty on his head and racks up a ton more visibility before he is killed? are those points ignored? or are they saved and then applied once the old bounty is cleared?
10. Once a Bounty Hunter kills his mark, he gets a 'proof of successful bounty mission' (containing data such as target name, value and such) in his inventory, with a DNA sample of the mark (perhaps even a finger, scalp or something else).
To finally collect the bounty, this certificate has to be brought to the NPC that issued the bounty, like Jabba for a smuggler who failed an assignment for him or Emperor Palpatine himself for a high level Jedi. For each mission, you can bring the certificate to several different locations, so your rivals will not know exactly where you are headed beforehand.
11. As soon as one Bounty Hunter kills his mark, all other Bounty Hunters that still had the same mission (they weren't killed by the mark or a rivaling bounty hunter and didn't drop the mission) do not fail it. Instead, the tracking droids now track the Bounty Hunter that has the 'proof of successful bounty mission' for their deceased mark. Once another Bounty Hunter kills the one with this 'proof of successful bounty mission', the mission fails for the killed hunter and the 'successful bounty certificate' is transferred to the inventory of his assassin. The bounty hunter with the newly 'aquired' 'proof of successful bounty mission' now has to reach the mission giver NPC to collect his bounty.
I disagree on this for a few reasons the main being what if I want to try to kill more then 1 mark while I am out? The process of tracking a mark, then killing him plus dealing with any other BHs that are after the same mark sems daunting enough. having to protect your proof also seems to open player camping. I mean if I am a BH and track down my mark only to find that another BH is already on him why not just let that bh kill the mark then I jump that BH. This problem gets worse if you think about 10 BHs getting to mark at around the same time. This is also a problem with BHs all getting TEFs for eachother for the same mark. An eaiser solution might be that a single BH can accept a single mark, he can enlist the help of other BHs but must split the reward and the group limit would be say 5 people. That idea needs work, but again, you see where I am going with that.
12. The 'proof of successful bounty mission' can also be traded and sold to other characters, including non-bounty hunters. Once the proof has been traded, the mission of the bounty hunter that gave away the proof fails, and he looses all TEFs to and from the other Bounty Hunters with the same mission.
Once a character aquires the 'proof of successful bounty mission' by trade, the mission to bring it to the mission giver NPC will also transfer to them as well as the TEF for all Bounty Hunters that are still in the race for this particular mark. Also, the tracking droids of the latter will now track the holder of this 'proof of successful bounty mission'.
Not sure why you want to sell your proof. The only thing that comes to mind is of course money and the only reason you would sell it to someone else would be to make more money then the actual mission payout. But why would another player give you more money then what what the mission pay out is worth? Or I may just be missing something here.
All and all some excellent ideas and these are just my 2 cents on the whole thing Keep up the good work and Devs at least print off a copy of this and bring it up in the next meeting
