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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1
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AudioOrgana
Jedi
Posts: 5943
Registered: 06-28-2003


AudioOrgana

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Hmmm...well, my idea was very simple, but I think some people are missing the spirit.

Yet another kit for us to sell is not decay.

Under the system I proposed, we still get to make new droids - they have to buy a finished deed. Role-players and people with attachemnts to their droids get their way as well, because for all they know the system eats the deed and feeds it to their old droid. In reality, they are just buying a new droid and it is coming out with the same name/color as the old one. Win, win.

I did NOT propose a credits for repair system, which I am opposed to because it is not really a decay that is going to benefit us. It's a new moneysink, which isn't bad, but it defeats the whole purpose of player decay.

I disagree that a DRC would be hard to implement - it didn't take them terribly long with ID tents. Part of the reason I suggested it as such was exactly as someone pointed out above - it increases the use of NPC cities. As to implementation, it could be, as I said, like the interior of a player city cloning lab, using art decoration that is already in the game (droids and workstations).

The reason for proposing the idea of a "dip"/lift, etc. was two-fold - one, to appease those people who have emotional attachments to their droids and are therefore opposed to decay, and two because we saw it in the films, and this game is desperate for content that replicates the SW films.

I'm glad people enjoyed the idea, but instead of making it ten times more complicated, please read it again and take it at face value. It could be VERY simple, yet very effective. Your droid needs replacing, you buy a new deed, you go to this place and come out with a new droid. Yes, it's just a fancy way of turning in a droid for another, but it does address the issues on both sides.

AO
02-19-2005 11:32 AM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1
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AudioOrgana
Jedi
Posts: 5943
Registered: 06-28-2003


AudioOrgana

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Eceen wrote:
Ok, this is an idea I can get behind. I agree a player "tent" in the npc cities would work. The only concern I have here about requiring the DE present or having it like a crafting station is for those DE's and servers that have a low population. I know even on Corbantis server with its high population I still need a special vendor for our friends on the other side of the world. I think having a kit and a deed for the new refurbishment would be easier for those players that play at odd times or dont have many DE's around. Player sends an email to the DE with what they need, DE makes it and responds with price, places it on a vendor, the player then picks up the deed and kit at their convienance and can go to the DRC when they have the time to do so and get it done by themselves.




Under the system I proposed the DE does not need to be present.

It goes like this :

1) Player's droid needs refurbishment

2) Player buys a new droid deed that they want to refurbish it with (must be same chassis, but module configuration CAN be different)

3) Player goes to "DRC", a ID-tent like structure (though hopefully more high-tech) where he can put his droid and feed the deed into a machine (kind of like you feed items into the Jetpack forge at the DWB)

4) Player sees an animation of the droid being dipped (or, as I said, to simplify development, make it more of an enclosed tube of sorts)

5) Player walks away with a "refurbished" (new) droid

A kit that does the same is fine with me - as long as the kit requires a droid deed. I've suggested that a half-dozen times in these threads yet the opposition to decay hasn't seemed to take to the idea. Thus the DRC was born - it gives them the immersion they want, it gives us the sales we want, it adds to the overall Star-warsyness of the game.

AO
02-19-2005 11:41 AM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1   [ Edited ]
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YodaMac
Interior Decorator
Posts: 555
Registered: 06-26-2003


YodaMac
PA: (SRNTY) Serenity, Naboo
Server: Radiant

Reply 63 of 123

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AudioOrgana wrote:


Under the system I proposed the DE does not need to be present.

It goes like this :

1) Player's droid needs refurbishment

2) Player buys a new droid deed that they want to refurbish it with (must be same chassis, but module configuration CAN be different)

3) Player goes to "DRC", a ID-tent like structure (though hopefully more high-tech) where he can put his droid and feed the deed into a machine (kind of like you feed items into the Jetpack forge at the DWB)

4) Player sees an animation of the droid being dipped (or, as I said, to simplify development, make it more of an enclosed tube of sorts)

5) Player walks away with a "refurbished" (new) droid

A kit that does the same is fine with me - as long as the kit requires a droid deed. I've suggested that a half-dozen times in these threads yet the opposition to decay hasn't seemed to take to the idea. Thus the DRC was born - it gives them the immersion they want, it gives us the sales we want, it adds to the overall Star-warsyness of the game.

AO

Yeah, I just dont get it.  If a player comes to me to buy a droid deed, goes through all the time to decide on the modules they want, the droid model, colors, etc, then waits for me to craft it... then why would they take it to one of these places you mention if they already have the deed?  Whether they buy it from me or my vendor...they already have the deed and are ready to use it.  Unless you are suggesting that all droid deeds must go through one of these "machines" to be readied?  I'm not a big fan of that.  The "ready droid unit" command is working just fine.

To me, TK's suggestion makes more sense, since it doesn't require a deed to work, just credits.  And it's not a "kit" so much as a furniture item, so DE's (or anyone) can have them in their shops, but don't HAVE to get into selling them or being called with /tells all the time asking for an overhaul.  Except when a droid finally does succumb to 0% integrity, and a DE would need to be present to put new modules (the same or different ones) into the "hopper" and let the player refurbish their droid.  Probably the price to activate the machine would go up with each module placed in it or something,  Or if only DE's could operate them with new modules, then itwould be up to the DE charge a reasonable fee.


Message Edited by YodaMac on 02-19-2005 01:30 PM

Message Edited by YodaMac on 02-19-2005 01:31 PM



Yod Amac - Head DE, Serenity, Naboo, Radiant Galaxy
02-19-2005 12:24 PM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1
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TheRealTK421
Blue Glowie
Posts: 7147
Registered: 06-29-2003


TheRealTK421

Reply 64 of 123

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YodaMac wrote:

To me, TK's suggestion makes more sense, since it doesn't require a deed to work, just credits. 


Let me clarify...

I'm thinking the credits go to the DE, as if you were paying him/her to do the work. However, this would only apply to some kind of 'normal' refurbishment. If it were some kind of public structure, the credits simply go away for good (the money sink I spoke of)...however, I'm thinking that this would cost more than what DEs would eventually charge for use of their refurb machine in their shop.

If there was to be the possibility of a broken module or part, the MDE would have to be there to operate the machine (and provide the correct/needed items to the input hopper).



And it's not a "kit" so much as a furniture item, so DE's (or anyone) can have them in their shops, but don't HAVE to get into selling them or being called with /tells all the time asking for an overhaul. 


Exactly. This is more of a hybrid crafting/repair station as opposed to straight furniture, per se.

I guess you could put one of these in your own shop but an MDE would be required to operate in the case of replacement/upgrades and whatnot.  I foresaw just some kind of 'normal' refurbishment being available for inputting credits. In addition, it would take the droid out of your datapad for the duration of time that the process took (since I don't think it should be instantaneous but should need anywhere from 20 min. - 90 min.)

That way, the quality of the station would matter when a user was working with the MArch.



Except when a droid finally does succumb to 0% integrity, and a DE would need to be present to put new modules (the same or different ones) into the "hopper" and let the player refurbish their droid. 


I was thinking of some kind of operational mini-game that the MDE would have to 'play' to get the replacement/upgrade to work properly.  There might be some chance that it wouldn't go right and the droid would be permanently ruined. 


Probably the price to activate the machine would go up with each module placed in it or something,  Or if only DE's could operate them with new modules, then it would be up to the DE charge a reasonable fee.


Precisely.  I wouldn't really mind contracting out this sort of thing.  It makes DE an even more unique crafting profession, in a way.  Not just a droid maker but a droid fixer (via mini-game DRC machine operation as well).

I even see these machines as going into some kind of possible future changes in bettering droid AI and/or personalities.

/shrug



/bow

Respectfully,

TheRealTK421 a.k.a. "Doughbacca"
SWG DE Correspondent
Co-Founding member of Ahazi DENet & SWG DEA (Droid Engineer Association)
"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."

02-19-2005 12:43 PM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1   [ Edited ]
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TheRealTK421
Blue Glowie
Posts: 7147
Registered: 06-29-2003


TheRealTK421

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AudioOrgana wrote:

Hmmm...well, my idea was very simple, but I think some people are missing the spirit.


Just to clarify...I didn't miss it.  I just took and started brainstorming, that's all.


Yet another kit for us to sell is not decay.


Yea....that's why I wanted to try to shy away from one more kit/consumable. 

I'd suggest:

  • Repair Kits:  These work as they do now, to repair white HAM damage
  • Recon. Kits:  (after the change) Usable by ANY player to stave off the onset or pace of droid
                          decay. So, these wouldn't go away but their features would be changed to fit
                          into a newer, more immersive system.


Under the system I proposed, we still get to make new droids - they have to buy a finished deed. Role-players and people with attachemnts to their droids get their way as well, because for all they know the system eats the deed and feeds it to their old droid. In reality, they are just buying a new droid and it is coming out with the same name/color as the old one. Win, win.


I sorta twisted your idea about because I just saw a new deed as being too.....boring.

Now, loading up the input hopper on a DRC machine with parts, you might have some droid shops where Med modules, Harvest mods and others were available....but you'd have to hit a different shop to find Combat modules, Ent. FX modules and StimDispensor modules.

You can think of this machine as a kind of special repair machine / vendor (for parts / modules).  However, the nice part is that an MDE doesn't have to be about to baby-sit normal refurb situations and only is needed when parts/modules die or when an upgrade is ordered. 

That's when the mini-game thing comes into play (which I personally would find very immersive and fun).



I did NOT propose a credits for repair system, which I am opposed to because it is not really a decay that is going to benefit us. It's a new moneysink, which isn't bad, but it defeats the whole purpose of player decay.


Again, clarifying...

The credits go to the DEs bank account, not to the system (unless a public NPC type facility were implemented).  Even then, the NPC versions should be there only for convienence and shouldn't be able to produce refurb. 'effects' that were as good as what would be possible in a private droid shop.


I disagree that a DRC would be hard to implement - it didn't take them terribly long with ID tents. Part of the reason I suggested it as such was exactly as someone pointed out above - it increases the use of NPC cities. As to implementation, it could be, as I said, like the interior of a player city cloning lab, using art decoration that is already in the game (droids and workstations).


Yea...I wanted to try to build a solution that would contain a lot of the things the Devs were wanting anyway since it heighten the likeliehood that they'd adopt our proposal (in whole/part).


The reason for proposing the idea of a "dip"/lift, etc. was two-fold - one, to appease those people who have emotional attachments to their droids and are therefore opposed to decay, and two because we saw it in the films, and this game is desperate for content that replicates the SW films.


Absolutely. I'm totally behind this and I think it's one of the reasons why I like the general concept so much.


I'm glad people enjoyed the idea, but instead of making it ten times more complicated, please read it again and take it at face value. It could be VERY simple, yet very effective.


Errr...what I envision seems simple too:

  • 1) Change Recon. kits into basic 'decay delay' kits
  • 2) Add DRC machine - as described

Done. 

What's complicated about that?


Your droid needs replacing, you buy a new deed, you go to this place and come out with a new droid. Yes, it's just a fancy way of turning in a droid for another, but it does address the issues on both sides.


True.  However, I was thinking longer-term.  The DRC method would be a way to bridge us over to upgrades, which we all know that players want. 


AO


/bow

Respectfully,

Message Edited by TheRealTK421 on 02-19-2005 01:16 PM

TheRealTK421 a.k.a. "Doughbacca"
SWG DE Correspondent
Co-Founding member of Ahazi DENet & SWG DEA (Droid Engineer Association)
"I think all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. ...I'm certainly not. And I'm sick and tired of being told that I am."

02-19-2005 12:56 PM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1   [ Edited ]
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AudioOrgana
Jedi
Posts: 5943
Registered: 06-28-2003


AudioOrgana

Reply 66 of 123

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YodaMac wrote:


AudioOrgana wrote:


Under the system I proposed the DE does not need to be present.

It goes like this :

1) Player's droid needs refurbishment

2) Player buys a new droid deed that they want to refurbish it with (must be same chassis, but module configuration CAN be different)

3) Player goes to "DRC", a ID-tent like structure (though hopefully more high-tech) where he can put his droid and feed the deed into a machine (kind of like you feed items into the Jetpack forge at the DWB)

4) Player sees an animation of the droid being dipped (or, as I said, to simplify development, make it more of an enclosed tube of sorts)

5) Player walks away with a "refurbished" (new) droid

A kit that does the same is fine with me - as long as the kit requires a droid deed. I've suggested that a half-dozen times in these threads yet the opposition to decay hasn't seemed to take to the idea. Thus the DRC was born - it gives them the immersion they want, it gives us the sales we want, it adds to the overall Star-warsyness of the game.

AO

Yeah, I just dont get it. If a player comes to me to buy a droid deed, goes through all the time to decide on the modules they want, the droid model, colors, etc, then waits for me to craft it... then why would they take it to one of these places you mention if they already have the deed? Whether they buy it from me or my vendor...they already have the deed and are ready to use it. Unless you are suggesting that all droid deeds must go through one of these "machines" to be readied? I'm not a big fan of that. The "ready droid unit" command is working just fine.

To me, TK's suggestion makes more sense, since it doesn't require a deed to work, just credits. And it's not a "kit" so much as a furniture item, so DE's (or anyone) can have them in their shops, but don't HAVE to get into selling them or being called with /tells all the time asking for an overhaul. Except when a droid finally does succumb to 0% integrity, and a DE would need to be present to put new modules (the same or different ones) into the "hopper" and let the player refurbish their droid. Probably the price to activate the machine would go up with each module placed in it or something, Or if only DE's could operate them with new modules, then itwould be up to the DE charge a reasonable fee.


Message Edited by YodaMac on 02-19-2005 01:30 PM

Message Edited by YodaMac on 02-19-2005 01:31 PM





LMAO.

Yoda, I suggested it all because of YOU.

Because you say you want to keep the same droid forever beause of roleplay reasons, this was a way for us to sell droids and still let you keep the "same" droid.

This is a way to RETROFIT droids people already have to satisfy your concern about wanting droids to be your little friends.

I am totally against a speeder-bike type credit repair, because THAT DOES NOT LEAD TO MORE DROIDS SOLD, the goal of decay. Otherwise it's just a generic moneysink with no benefit to our profession.

AO

Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 02-19-2005 04:09 PM

02-19-2005 01:08 PM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1   [ Edited ]
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Eceen
SWG Ensign
Posts: 189
Registered: 12-16-2003


Eceen

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I would have to agree with Yoda on the deed portion. I understand the roleplay aspect of keeping color and name, but all in all you can do those colors and name with a new droid deed and the roleplayer would be none the wiser.
I also dont see how this would help those players that play on low population servers and low DE servers if a DE was required to be present in any stage of the process. In order to help this would it not be better to have the droid being refurbished redeed once it is completed? Basically it would wipe its memory too (not have the programmed commands). But that shouldnt be a problem. The DE could then place it on a vendor to have it picked up by the owner.


Also another thought I had when thinking about roleplay and droids roles in that. I have in my shop a multitude of droid chassis named various things like, building maintenance, security droid, shop assistant, ect.. Would it not help our profession and thus the sale of droids if we had modules that we could put into basic chassis that would give the droid different animations, kind of like they have now when you drop them. Even better would be to expand the personality chips to encompass this. But expand it to include "appearing" to perform tasks. Example would be have a module in an R2 unit that would activate an emote to bring up a serving tray and a manipulator arm to place a glass. Just silly things like that to make people want to have them as a furniture type item in their houses and not just tucked in some corner.



Had to edit, bad spelling errors. Please excuse any others you see.

Message Edited by Eceen on 02-19-2005 02:22 PM

Message Edited by Eceen on 02-19-2005 02:24 PM

Orisho Dax, Nimog Dax, K'asil Dax
Losing is a disease, as contagious as syphilis.
02-19-2005 01:20 PM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1   [ Edited ]
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AudioOrgana
Jedi
Posts: 5943
Registered: 06-28-2003


AudioOrgana

Reply 68 of 123

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TheRealTK421 wrote:


AudioOrgana wrote:

Hmmm...well, my idea was very simple, but I think some people are missing the spirit.


Just to clarify...I didn't miss it.  I just took and started brainstorming, that's all.

Which is great.  However, in doing so you got totally away from the whole intent of my proposal - for more droids to be sold and for there to be an immersive, star-warsy way for them to do so while invigorating NPC cities (a nice side effect).  When you start talking about credit sinks and other things, I simply was trying to get back to the spirit of what I originally wrote and I felt it was leading to people misunderstanding what I said in the first place.  I was just trying to clarify. 

The droid deed is an essential part of it because as DE's we still get to make droids.  Any credit dump system (like vehicles/garages, as you keep mentioning) is not decay, it's a money sink for players and doesn't benefit DE's as a profession, just as a stop-gap few extra credits.

Yet another kit for us to sell is not decay.


Yea....that's why I wanted to try to shy away from one more kit/consumable. 

I'd suggest:

  • Repair Kits:  These work as they do now, to repair white HAM damage
  • Recon. Kits:  (after the change) Usable by ANY player to stave off the onset or pace of droid decay.
                          So, these wouldn't go away but their features would be changed to fit into a newer,
                          more immersive system.

If that's something DE's feel is absoultely necessary, I wouldn't fight it - but it should never indefinately stop permanent decay.  Eventually, a droid has to die for the system to work.  People don't need yet ANOTHER droid consumable - pretty soon people are going to need a whole storage droid just to store the kits and batteries to keep their droids going. 

Under the system I proposed, we still get to make new droids - they have to buy a finished deed. Role-players and people with attachemnts to their droids get their way as well, because for all they know the system eats the deed and feeds it to their old droid. In reality, they are just buying a new droid and it is coming out with the same name/color as the old one. Win, win.


I sorta twisted your idea about because I just saw a new deed as being too.....boring.

Now, loading up the input hopper on a DRC machine with parts, you might have some droid shops where Med modules, Harvest mods and others were available....but you'd have to hit a different shop to find Combat modules, Ent. FX modules and StimDispensor modules.


You can think of this machine as a kind of special repair machine / vendor (for parts / modules).  However, the nice part is that an MDE doesn't have to be about to baby-sit normal refurb situations and only is needed when parts/modules die or when an upgrade is ordered. 

That's when the mini-game thing comes into play (which I personally would find very immersive and fun).

No, but we become part monkeys.  The whole point of my soloution, boring as it may be for you, is to increase the sales and productions of droids.  Personally I find putting parts on vendors boring.  Under my proposal, again, a DE does not have to babysit anything.  And sure, a mini-game is all well and good, but we need to balance the benefit such a game would have.  Remember, our first priority should be the health of the profession - the "extras" are just that.

I did NOT propose a credits for repair system, which I am opposed to because it is not really a decay that is going to benefit us. It's a new moneysink, which isn't bad, but it defeats the whole purpose of player decay.


Again, clarifying...

The credits go to the DEs bank account, not to the system (unless a public NPC type facility were implemented).  Even then, the NPC versions should be there only for convienence and shouldn't be able to produce refurb. 'effects' that were as good as what would be possible in a private droid shop.

I don't see how balance wise that would work out, but that's beyond the scope of my suggestions.

I disagree that a DRC would be hard to implement - it didn't take them terribly long with ID tents. Part of the reason I suggested it as such was exactly as someone pointed out above - it increases the use of NPC cities. As to implementation, it could be, as I said, like the interior of a player city cloning lab, using art decoration that is already in the game (droids and workstations).


Yea...I wanted to try to build a solution that would contain a lot of the things the Devs were wanting anyway since it heighten the likeliehood that they'd adopt our proposal (in whole/part).

Which is exactly what mine does (much more than putting things in private structures/etc.). 


The reason for proposing the idea of a "dip"/lift, etc. was two-fold - one, to appease those people who have emotional attachments to their droids and are therefore opposed to decay, and two because we saw it in the films, and this game is desperate for content that replicates the SW films.


Absolutely. I'm totally behind this and I think it's one of the reasons why I like the general concept so much.


I'm glad people enjoyed the idea, but instead of making it ten times more complicated, please read it again and take it at face value. It could be VERY simple, yet very effective.


Errr...what I envision seems simple too:

  • 1) Change Recon. kits into basic 'decay delay' kits
  • 2) Add DRC machine - as described

Done. 

What's complicated about that?

You are over simplifiying what took you several long posts above to describe.  You are talking about stocking all these parts on vendors (we'd all need Master Merchant to handle that load - they won't give us "free cookies" even if it's in a "new" machine), credit sinks, and new objects for peoples homes, etc.  My idea was simple - you go to this place with your old droid and a new one and your old one gets renewed.

Your droid needs replacing, you buy a new deed, you go to this place and come out with a new droid. Yes, it's just a fancy way of turning in a droid for another, but it does address the issues on both sides.


True.  However, I was thinking longer-term.  The DRC method would be a way to bridge us over to upgrades, which we all know that players want. 

No, I can't agree there.  What's the difference between upgrades and modularity?  Modularity = bad.  In the system I proposed, you indeed can upgrade your droids, however.  That's why I said the new modules would replace the old.


AO


/bow

Respectfully,




Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 02-19-2005 04:33 PM

02-19-2005 01:31 PM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1
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AudioOrgana
Jedi
Posts: 5943
Registered: 06-28-2003


AudioOrgana

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Eceen wrote:
I would have to agree with Yoda on the deed portion. I understand the roleplay aspect of keeping color and name, but all in all you can do those colors and name with a new droid deed and the roleplayer would be none the wiser.

Wow...I've only been saying that in every post I made about this topic.  

I've said exactly that - there is no difference between a red mouse droid named "gobo" and another one.  Yet some people insist that droids are some kind of special object that can never die.  That's the whole frickin' point of my proposal, because that camp doesn't seem to be able to get past that sixty seconds it takes to recolor/rename. 

/sigh


I also dont see how this would help those players that play on low population servers and low DE servers if a DE was required to be present in any stage of the process. In order to help this would it not be better to have the droid being refurbished redeed once it is completed? Basically it would wipe its memory too (not have the programmed commands). But that shouldnt be a problem. The DE could then place it on a vendor to have it picked up by the owner.

Again, I'll put it in bold :

NO DE EVER HAS TO BE PRESENT IN THIS SYSTEM.  That is the reason for the NPC "tent" in cities, to keep the burden off of the DE.  That's the beauty of upgrading via deed.

AO




02-19-2005 01:37 PM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1
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Eceen
SWG Ensign
Posts: 189
Registered: 12-16-2003


Eceen

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AudioOrgana wrote:

Again, I'll put it in bold :

NO DE EVER HAS TO BE PRESENT IN THIS SYSTEM. That is the reason for the NPC "tent" in cities, to keep the burden off of the DE. That's the beauty of upgrading via deed.

AO









I understand your position on this its those that want the DE to benefit by getting credits for running the actual machine this is directed to.

Orisho Dax, Nimog Dax, K'asil Dax
Losing is a disease, as contagious as syphilis.
02-19-2005 02:25 PM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1
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Gron_DM
Jedi
Posts: 2405
Registered: 06-26-2003


Gron_DM
PA: Engineering Guild Conglomerate, City of Rhuidean, Tatooine
Server: Corbantis

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AudioOrgana wrote:

LMAO.

Yoda, I suggested it all because of YOU.

Because you say you want to keep the same droid forever beause of roleplay reasons, this was a way for us to sell droids and still let you keep the "same" droid.

This is a way to RETROFIT droids people already have to satisfy your concern about wanting droids to be your little friends.

I am totally against a speeder-bike type credit repair, because THAT DOES NOT LEAD TO MORE DROIDS SOLD, the goal of decay. Otherwise it's just a generic moneysink with no benefit to our profession.

AO

Message Edited by AudioOrgana on 02-19-2005 04:09 PM


Overall i agree with this sentiment, having a way to keep old droids around but yet still consumes a price cost of similiar drioid..here is a middle version:

Take TK's DRC machine, take AO's idea of a deed...a player then takes his old disabled droid to the DRC machine a new deed identical to the machine.  He loads the disabled droid into the DRC then hits a "transfer programming" option that makes a brand new droid with all the same color, name, so on as the original.  If you want to make that system more complex you can always throw in options to load in parts of other module types so people can use deeds that dont match the original. I see AO's point, while having DRC's with credit options to slow decay, having them for repairing a disabled droid is self-defeating.  So the chart would go like this:

Player Bob buys a combat probot 540 rated, AR6 3000ham >

Player bob uses it a month about 10 hours a week >

He then needs decides to repair it a DE Al's Droid shop's DRC machine.

Bob continues to get repairs for another month or 2 then his integrity has hit 0

Bob decides he wants to keep his current probot, but DE Al is out of biz so he goes to DE Gina and buys a 530 CR/3100ham combat probot deed.

Next He strolls over to Gina's DRC machine loads the disabled probot into the DRC and selects a transfer function. 

Bam! His new deed is consumed and its ham has gone up but its CR went a little down (540/2+530/2). 

This kind of scenario would allow someone to take theyre R3 with a utility set of modules (storage, medical..so on) and buy modules and when the time comes to go fix the refurb he could load the mods in and then he could in effect mod his r3 the way he likes!  Yikes somehow my plan ended at modularity...well anyways the overall read of it is in the middle between AO's and TKs and Yodamacs ideas. 

Cheers!


 

Vilance -Retired from SWG
MDE for most of it, Guildleader as well
EGC Founding leader August 03
Corbantis
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placed Nov 03.
02-19-2005 03:10 PM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1
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Eceen
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It wouldnt be modularity if DE gina made a totally new droid with say a harvester mod only. Then Bob goes to the machine loads the old droid and new deed into the machine and chooses the 5 modules he wants to keep out of the old one and the 1 harvestor he wants from the new one. And bam he has the droid he wants, the de didnt make just 1 module but the whole droid. And its condition is back. However with your equation you could load the new droid up with better/equal parts as the old and actually save the condition of your modules from full decay preventing you from giving up the hopefully outstanding droid you had to begin with.

Orisho Dax, Nimog Dax, K'asil Dax
Losing is a disease, as contagious as syphilis.
02-19-2005 03:30 PM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1
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YodaMac
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Still not buying it or understanding it.  Once a player has bought a droid deed, there is absolutely no reason for them to have to jump through a bunch of other hoops so that they can ready the droid.  If you are under the impression STILL that I have some interest in role-playing, AO, then please read this post (since you must have skipped over all my other many ones).  I am not at all interested in any sort of role-playing "pacifier" as I do not role play.  I do , however, play SWG for Droid Engineering and Droid Engineering alone.
 
Which is why I lean more towards Jenden and TK's ideas. (lean towards....not 100%.    yet.)  I don't believe combat droids should live forever at all, but I do believe players should have the chance to "keep" their utility droids functioning for as long as they feel them worth it.  And in the end, my goal is about making sure droids continue to improve their worth to more professions.
 
Decay that is "repairable" for a while, and then requires a "refurbish" or replacement seems reasonable.  We work hard for our droids and enjoy making a lasting positive effect on many other players and the virtual "galaxy" as well.



Yod Amac - Head DE, Serenity, Naboo, Radiant Galaxy
02-19-2005 05:40 PM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1
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AudioOrgana
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YodaMac wrote:
Still not buying it or understanding it.  Once a player has bought a droid deed, there is absolutely no reason for them to have to jump through a bunch of other hoops so that they can ready the droid. 
 
Agreed.  It was a way to help bridge the suspension of disbelief to those players who felt that for role-playing reasons droids should last forever.
 
 If you are under the impression STILL that I have some interest in role-playing, AO, then please read this post (since you must have skipped over all my other many ones).  I am not at all interested in any sort of role-playing "pacifier" as I do not role play.  I do , however, play SWG for Droid Engineering and Droid Engineering alone.
 
I use the term role-playing to talk about things that aren't part of the game mechanics and players project upon the game. 
 
The reasons you have given for wanting droids to last forever is that they are (in your mind) living objects and you think they are "special" because of that and shouldn't decay.  You then started a series of alarmists posts (SOME OF THEM WANT THEM TO LAST ONLY WEEKS!) and when questioned further past your initial posting you made it clear this was your base motivation.  Although you waxed about wanting to "preserve" what is "special" about our profession that's what you finally boil it down to : you think they are special and therefore DE should live on an Island on it's own without concern for the viability of our profession as a business model.  If you mean "special" as in being a stagnant, one-time sale lack of market, that's not something most of us wish to preserve.
 
In my eyes, that is a roleplaying reason.  Droids aren't really anything in this game but a graphic and a mathmatical gameplay effect, just like everything else in SWG.  Anything beyond that is something we project upon it, emotionally or conceptually, has nothing to do with mechanics but perception - and yes, is what I would call role-playing.  You may not call it that - you can call it whatever you want - but your arguments are not based on game mechanics.
 
You also admit your concern is about the perception of our profession and again not the functionality and viability of it as a business model - you opened your anti-"MANDATORY DECAY" thread by saying just that.  Well, that's nice for you - the things you have PROJECTED upon the profession.  The reality is, we are a crafting profession in an MMO, and because of that we need to be able to compete in the marketplace and be a viable business model as well.
 
I think it's telling that you admit you play SWG for DE and DE alone - it shows where your viewpoint comes from, and let's us know you are not the typical player, or even DE.  This helps balance your opinion and I applaud you for making it clear.
 
Which is why I lean more towards Jenden and TK's ideas. (lean towards....not 100%.    yet.)  I don't believe combat droids should live forever at all, but I do believe players should have the chance to "keep" their utility droids functioning for as long as they feel them worth it.  And in the end, my goal is about making sure droids continue to improve their worth to more professions.
 
Yup, as I've said (and TK has said, and many others as well), we can beg and hope for more additions, but once we get them - a month or so later, things return to the same.  What does "as long as they feel them worth it" mean?  As long as they want the droid around, or as long as they feel justified in getting use versus the price?  If it's the former - sorry, that's not decay that is going to help our profession, and if it's the latter - we can make that adjustment easily by varying the prices to make the value there.  I know my prices would drop overnight if decay went in - it's just that I refuse to sell something that lasts forever for less than a premium price (which is why the average droid I sell is over 100K).
 
Decay that is "repairable" for a while, and then requires a "refurbish" or replacement seems reasonable. 
 
On all droids?  Because this seems contrary to your previous posts - especially the replacement.  Do you now think mandatory replacement at some point is reasonable?  If so, then at least we have a starting point to discuss true decay.  Anything less than eventual destruction (however long the window is) is simply not true decay. 
 
We work hard for our droids and enjoy making a lasting positive effect on many other players and the virtual "galaxy" as well.

And think of how many more people could be enriched by our profession, if only we needed them.  The sad fact is, we don't.  Go read in your "repeat business?" thread and see the last post before mine.  That is so typical of what I hear from new DE's - it's fun, making droids is cool, but I can't even make enough credits to pay maintainance because the demand just isn't there.

People that have made a big success of DE are few and far between - it's time to open the profession up to more than just people like myself who have spent going on two years cornering the market with my droids, and those people who simply could care less about the market or anything outside of the actual construction of the droid (people like yourself).

You clearly love DE.  Isn't it time to stop being selfish and make our profession needed more so more people can see how much fun it really is?  Most players aren't going to soley play DE, and to restrict our profession to people who are either conglomerates or hobbyists is not going to accomplish that goal.

I've made it clear that I support full-on decay - personally, I'd be happy if the suckers just dropped every few months and died.  You take your items out, delete it, and have to go buy another one.  It's simple and works.  Any of these false comparisons some are making to the vehicle system are just that - false comparisons that are convenient because in the real world robots and cars are both machines.  A credit-based system, even one we are on the recieving end of, is not going to help the cause of making DE a more viable profession - it will just make those of us who are already here richer, and won't affect those who simply don't care about business at all. 

If that's what the community ends up proposing, you might as well just scrap the idea altogether - because it won't do anything for the profession long-term or help make DE the viable, fun, and NEEDED profession it's dying to be.  You want to add need by adding new modules, which as anyone with a mind for business can tell you is a dead-end street (they sell well then drop down to levels like every other droid we sell because once sold they last FOREVER) - I'm trying to make DE needed with the tools we already have, so we can enjoy those additions even more.

The only way to do that is to increase the sales and demand for droids.

The only way to sustain that is for droids to eventually die.

If you can support the fact that all droids eventually should need replacement, then at least we have come further than we were when we began.

/shrug 

AO




02-20-2005 06:36 AM  

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Re: Droid decay proposal Version 0.1   [ Edited ]
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Eceen
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You make a damn good case here AO. I will agree some form of decay is needed, as much as I hate seeing a perfect machine that I built finally break down. Besides it wont hurt my business any, my droids are fairly cheap already, and my prices would drop by about 5-10k I think. Although I do have a concern about combat droid decay. Which is very few people use them now because of the low damage resist, ham, and damage output. It would therefore absolutely kill the combat droid sales market if they would then decay. If this system were implemented then it would be necessary to adjust the armor segments we make to be able to tweak with a droids resists, as well as in the experimentation process be able to raise the ham more than a hundred or so like we can now. Also damage output from combat modules would need in my opinion different attack methods as well as more output. Without these necessary changes there would be no point to these droids. People could use pets or in my combat toons case simply solo, she is master tk/swordsman/master medic.


As an after thought, it makes more sense to me that if I am using a high grade steel to make this machine it should be more resistant and better able to take a beating than some furry critter that would barely be able to scratch its paint. A real life scenario is a bear vs an RV. The bear can push and claw all it wants but he isnt really gonna hurt the damn thing. Likewise with armor plating a critter should not be able to hurt a droid as much. So kinetic should be higher resist while a blaster should do more since it is meant to pierce armor. Just a thought.

Message Edited by Eceen on 02-20-2005 08:19 AM

Message Edited by Eceen on 02-20-2005 08:20 AM

Orisho Dax, Nimog Dax, K'asil Dax
Losing is a disease, as contagious as syphilis.
02-20-2005 07:15 AM  

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