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Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04   [ Edited ]
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annelid0
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annelid0
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This comes up fairly often, and I've finally gotten tired of seeing the link to that old "pikeman damage calculator" with totally incorrect information. Below you will find what should be the correct damage and delay modifiers for pikemen's special attacks as of today, not a year ago.

Damage mods below were obtained by spamming the specials on a lair using a wooden staff with a max damage of 62. Dividing the highest hit by 62 and again by 1.86 (standard damage mod) gave the values below.

Delay mods were obtained by using a 4.5 speed VL which had failed a repair and attacking a lair 100 times (as measured by a powerup). The baseline autoattack time was 107 seconds, just barely over the speed cap. The delay mods below are calculated by spamming each special 100 times and dividing the time it took by the baseline.

I've also included the damage/delay ratio. Until you hit the speed cap, a higher dmg/delay ratio means higher DPS.

Finally, I added the state effects of what each attack does, since questions about them also come up fairly often from new pikemen.

Attack Damage Mod Delay Mod Dmg/Delay Notes
hit1 2.0 1.5 1.33
hit2 2.5 2.0 1.25 stun
hit3 4.0 3.0 1.33 stun, posture down

leghit1 1.5 1.5 1.0 action pool attack
leghit2 2.0 2.0 1.0 action pool attack
leghit3 2.5 3.0 0.83 action pool attack

area1 2.0 2.2 0.91 area
area2 2.75 3.0 0.92 area stun & dizzy

spin1 1.5 1.5 1.0 area
spin2 2.5 3.0 0.83 area dizzy

stun1 1.5 1.6 0.94 stun
stun2 2.0 2.0 1.0 area stun

sweep1 2.0 1.5 1.33 knockdown
sweep2 2.5 3.0 0.83 area knockdown

action1 1.0 2.0 0.5 action bleed (ticks at 1/5 strength of hit)
action2 2.0 3.0 0.67 action bleed (ticks at 1/5 strength of hit)

lunge1 1.0 1.5 0.67 20m range, posture down
lunge2 2.0 1.5 1.33 20m range, knockdown

If anything here seems off to you (especially the odd delays on area1 and stun1), feel free to test them yourself and offer corrections.

There's absolutely no guarantee that these values will be correct next month, next week, or even tomorrow. They've already been changed at least once without any warning, and almost certainly will be changed with the upcoming combat rebalance. In the meantime, hopefully this will help clear up some confusion.

I've made a fairly simple pikeman DPS calculator with these updated figures. It's available here.

Message Edited by annelid0 on 02-16-2005 11:30 PM

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Ilykerrimo
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06-26-2004 10:40 AM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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T_Rikimouri
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Since when was hit3 a x4 mod? It was x3 last I checked. O_o

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06-26-2004 11:53 AM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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Vincentarasin
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it was 4x when I was master pikeman.
 
 
Which made me livid, because the rest are 5x, and the hit2 is a 3x..
 
Pike's kinda get the bone there, and it cant be because of AP, swords have that, plus normal powers.

Vincent' Arasin
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06-26-2004 11:59 AM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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Vincentarasin
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Annelid0, from your figures, it appears as this, if I understand them right.
 
 
 
Note on this, This is ignoring the speed cap
 
It appears, that for the damage/delay trade off, Spin 1, is more damage over less time, then spin2, and area 1/2, (Again see note)
 
 
Is that correct?
 

Vincent' Arasin
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06-26-2004 12:03 PM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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ZomKalla
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Vincentarasin wrote:
Note on this, This is ignoring the speed cap
 
It appears, that for the damage/delay trade off, Spin 1, is more damage over less time, then spin2, and area 1/2, (Again see note)
 
 
Is that correct?
Yup, that is how it has always been.

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06-26-2004 12:27 PM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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Dyvim1674
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I would have to argue that the delay mod hit3 should be < (i think that's the right symbol for less than, lol) Area2, leghit3, and spin2

Dy'vim Slorm
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06-26-2004 01:59 PM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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annelid0
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annelid0
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Yes, below the speed cap spin1 beats both area attacks and spin2. Stun2 actually comes out the same, but doesn't hit the cap as early as spin1 does.

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Ilykerrimo
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06-26-2004 02:07 PM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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annelid0
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annelid0
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Dyvim1674 wrote:
I would have to argue that the delay mod hit3 should be < (i think that's the right symbol for less than, lol) Area2, leghit3, and spin2



It seems logical to me for it to be (tied for) the slowest attack, since it's also the highest damage. Leghit3 being so lousy is more annoying, especially when you consider that swordsmen's headhit3 has a 3.5x damage and 2.5x delay mod.

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Ilykerrimo
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06-26-2004 02:23 PM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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Dyvim1674
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Well in my experiments, i've noticed that Area2 is acutally quite a bit slower then hit3... which doesn't quite make sense but that's just what i've learn... As a non-M Brawler Pikeman with 85 speed I hit hit3 cap with my 4.2 260-1089 but just short of cap with area2... it's like area2 every 1.4 or so... I'll look into it s'more

Dy'vim Slorm
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06-26-2004 06:42 PM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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antares_Kauri
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Very nicely put together. The incomplete data I had compiled before getting side-tracked with other things matches what you have here.
 
antares
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06-26-2004 09:00 PM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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annelid0
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annelid0
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Dyvim1674 wrote:
Well in my experiments, i've noticed that Area2 is acutally quite a bit slower then hit3... which doesn't quite make sense but that's just what i've learn...



Are you sure it's not just the lengthy animation of area2 throwing you off? Quite often I'll do more than one attack in the time it takes for the area2 animation to end.

By all means test it out for yourself though. If I'm wrong I'll gladly correct it.

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Ilykerrimo
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06-26-2004 09:48 PM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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Vincentarasin
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I belive you are right annelido, one question though.
 
Is pikeman like rifleman, in the aspect of +100 speed = garuntee speed cap?
 
im MBrawler, and going to re-master pike (for PvE, sick of seeing swordsmen).
 
so would +10 speed cap me?(w/ M brawler)

Vincent' Arasin
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06-27-2004 07:19 AM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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Dyvim1674
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Just short of the cap, considering +10 with M Bralwer and M Pike only puts you at 90... you'll need about 95 to cap on Majority of pikes

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06-27-2004 08:46 AM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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annelid0
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annelid0
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+90 will cap anything with a speed of 3.3 or less. But even with a 4.5 speed weapon the slowest you'd hit is 1.35 seconds apart.

The way it works is this:

actual speed = weapon speed * delay mod * ((100 - player speed)/100)

A +100 speed mod for the player always gives you an actual speed of 0, so you'd cap even if the weapon speed was 4.5 millenia.

This is all supposed to change in the combat balance, of course.

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Ilykerrimo
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06-27-2004 11:48 AM  

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Re: Pikeman special attack damage and delay modifiers - 6/26/04
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MarcBezerra
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Searching for a new dps calculation i found this spreadsheet at Carbineer forum, its good and well formatted. Worth taking a look. Specialy because we can ajust it to our weapons.
 
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=carabineer&message.id=33085
the threat
 
the directly url
http://www.cogops.com/public_ftp/point/swg/Carbineer%20Actual%20Speed%20and%20Damage%20Table%20v1.2.xls
 
 

Ikreostah - OLT
06-28-2004 06:16 AM  

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