The threads int Smugler Forum about ways to get better slicing and how its not random.
"If you stand facing 239 degrees, in Hot pink hot pants (not pink ones has to be Hot pink), use 99.99% laser knifes-AUKs-Clamp, at precisly the moment the sun comes up, you WILL get a 45% encumb slice. And thats a fact jack" BULLSHOT!!
The BETA threads For and Against factorys. a couple of ppl doing non stop fights about a fact that is set in stone
Getting Firespray schematics is random, face it and deal with it
We have all the factory support we will get, face it and deal with it
The threads int Smugler Forum about ways to get better slicing and how its not random.
"If you stand facing 239 degrees, in Hot pink hot pants (not pink ones has to be Hot pink), use 99.99% laser knifes-AUKs-Clamp, at precisly the moment the sun comes up, you WILL get a 45% encumb slice. And thats a fact jack" BULLSHOT!!
The BETA threads For and Against factorys. a couple of ppl doing non stop fights about a fact that is set in stone
Getting Firespray schematics is random, face it and deal with it
We have all the factory support we will get, face it and deal with it
On factory support? We have all we will get right? Because the DEVs said so? Hmmm. I remember when Wookies werent going to get armor ever. I remember when jedi were going to be rare. I remember when the FS path would never be revealed. First rule of dealing with SOE here. Never ever assume something is set in stone.
Getting a firespray schematic is random? I believe there is a random generator working in it also. But I also believe there are variables added in. If there is one generator to rule them all and crafters can reset their fail/succeed chances by logging or loading then in fact there are variables.
Tyranus
Yoda: "When I die, the last of the Jedi, you will be!" Luke: "Really? what about those 50,000 Jedi Masters outside comparing Saber Size?" Yoda: "Sorry I am, My Bad it is"
this is how "psychics" and other nutballs sucker people. if you get thousands of psychics all predicting different outcomes for a general future event such as when some major world leader will die or get married or whatever. out of the thousands of random guesses of what will happen there are bound to be a few that are correct. add on top of that a little confusion and very ambigous statements and all of a sudden you have a profit on the level of nostradamus. of course the fact that the other 9999 psychics got it wrong has no bearing on the instant para-normal abilities of the one goofball that nailed it by random chance.
so after that happens you have the general populace beleiving this one nutball is some how "gifted" when all he did was take a guess at random and wrap it in a bit of verbal confusion and got lucky with a guess.
how does this relate to pattern theories harkening back to the "unknown" former path of the jedi and current methods of getting a kuat schematic?? it is simply people forming random events to fit a theory where there is no proof other than personal desire for something to be so. to boil it down it is no different than taking two sips of water and then having ed mcmahon ring your doorbell and give you a million dollars. the water sips didnt make ed mcmahon appear on your doorstep anymore REing only kuat parts in a specific location of a planet while wearing a metal bikini and having a wook blow kisses at you...
Created Account July 2003 - Canceled account Nov 2005. The NGE made me do it. Barb Wire Former Dark Force Wielder Ex-Imperial Navy
I don't think you guys saying it's "all random" really know what you're talking about either. Sure, the guys seeing patterns may be gullible, but it least they're trying to use their brains. It doesn't require any intelligence to be a skeptic. Witness your lack of grammar, capitalization, punctuation, etc. If you want some credibility in this argument, try using the language properly.
Anyway, here's a link if you really want to know about random number generators (which I suspect you don't, but whatever.) http://random.mat.sbg.ac.at/generators/
I especially like this quote:
Every RNG has its deficiencies. No RNG is appropriate for all tasks. For example, several good RNGs from the toolbox of stochastic simulation are unsuited for cryptographical applications, because they produce predictable output streams.
As a software developer who's done this stuff, there are plenty of mistakes the devs could've made that would lead to patterns, even if they're using the least predictable generators. It's just so easy to fall into those traps when you're doing threaded applications.
Albert Einstein won a Nobel prize for showing that Brownian Motion, the apparent random movements of dust and other small particles, was actually due to photon impacts. Prior to that most people thought "it's just random."
----------- Smerk
If I win your auction, offer to one of Yogsoth's vendors on Tatooine at 3404 -5668 (near Mos Eisley)
What I experienced today (which I also was posting in my thread) is, that I used three level 3 reactors of the type kryat (or something like that). There was the disk 3/8 for the firespray which had the same name (Kryat I guess) as the components had.
all three components were of the type Kryat with the exactly same name and level (sure the same level )..
so maybe that could make it easier to find those disks.
As a software developer who's done this stuff, there are plenty of mistakes the devs could've made that would lead to patterns, even if they're using the least predictable generators. It's just so easy to fall into those traps when you're doing threaded applications.
Yes no random number generator is completly random, I will concede to this. However, I find it highly doubtfull that the "Pattern" which the Firespray schematics might have is dependent on the Name of the object being REed, the number of schematics in your invitory or how many REed items you have in your invintory.
Those items are most likely not coded with the chance of an RE producing a fragment. Also some how I doubt that they took the long amount of time to programed in a factor to examine the charictures invintory and the name of an RE. There are many other things that were more important. Like making shur the EXP rewards were all even and such, and making shur that RE actualy worked.
Also what good would finding the random number patern for RE fragments be? So you can say it will take YYY many REs it will take for you to get XXX fragments. Good for you, you still have to do YYY REs anyway.
Albert Einstein won a Nobel prize for showing that Brownian Motion, the apparent random movements of dust and other small particles, was actually due to photon impacts. Prior to that most people thought "it's just random."
some of us that work in the real world with computers in the Information systems field kinda DO know about such things. and for all intents and purposes they are random. as for grammer and spelling pfft. im at work and have little time in between calls to fully flesh out my paragraphs as i would have them appear. but if it offends a grammer nazi now and then so what, i could care less.
as for einstein and your quoting his research it doesnt matter if someone waves their hand throught he air and the mdust moves about the actual movements of said dust whether its caused by wind or light photons does detract from the fact that by no NORMAL means are those movements in the slightest way preditcable hence the random nature of their movements.
it is far easier to accept things at face value rather than looking into reality. it is easy to read things into an equation and nitpick.
no one is debating the fact that if you have a sample of RE results tied to time stamps that it would fill computer banks the size of alaska that RE attempts couldnt be predictable. but for our purposes, on our level of mental power, and database storage, on our personal computers the dropping of kuat loot pieces is totally and forever a random event. saying otherwise is denial of reality with nothing more than a desire to nitpick at things.
Created Account July 2003 - Canceled account Nov 2005. The NGE made me do it. Barb Wire Former Dark Force Wielder Ex-Imperial Navy
one thing i wish to add about einstein and dust motes he was not trying to disprove randomness but to figure out what actually caused the movements of dust motes which proof HAPPENED to also support his other theories on the makeup of light, mass, and relativity. it had nothing to do with random events other than a belief commonly held that dust mote movement was random. this had nothing to do with things being random or not in general.
everything has a pattern which if the database of all factors and actions a given "random" event can be totally predicted. BUT since there is now WAY to know all such factors that would influence said event the result is random even though it is theoretically possible to predict that outcome. saying that a random number generator isnt random is merely semantics. without a database of sufficient size and known starting points. computerized random number generators hold the effect of being random to the user. EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT. no one is saying that they arent random merely stating the fact that to US on this side of things it is totally random.
Created Account July 2003 - Canceled account Nov 2005. The NGE made me do it. Barb Wire Former Dark Force Wielder Ex-Imperial Navy
Well put, Barb. All in all, though, this whole argument is moot. Even if Reverse Engineering with certain components, or while doing certain things, or at certain times increases your chances of finding a Firespray fragment, it's still random according to the definition of the word. Until you have a guaranteed 100%, if you do this you'll find a fragment every single time, method of Reverse Engineering, then you have to call it random, because anything short of a 1-in-1 occurance has a random probability of happening.
Can you guys drop it now, and argue about something worthwhile, rather than wasting time and bandwidth arguing over semantics?
Kan-Tor Bayle Master ShipWright • BayleTech Systems Shadows of Alderaan | Lok | Bloodfin Beauty is only toon deep. - me
Celedhros wrote: Well put, Barb. All in all, though, this whole argument is moot. Even if Reverse Engineering with certain components, or while doing certain things, or at certain times increases your chances of finding a Firespray fragment, it's still random according to the definition of the word. Until you have a guaranteed 100%, if you do this you'll find a fragment every single time, method of Reverse Engineering, then you have to call it random, because anything short of a 1-in-1 occurance has a random probability of happening.
Can you guys drop it now, and argue about something worthwhile, rather than wasting time and bandwidth arguing over semantics?
QFE, and agree on the last point totally too. There is one and only one sure way to get more Firespray fragments: RE more loot. Period.
Message Edited by TalonKarrdeTN on 11-10-200401:55 PM
some of us that work in the real world with computers in the Information systems field kinda DO know about such things. and for all intents and purposes they are random. as for grammer and spelling pfft. im at work and have little time in between calls to fully flesh out my paragraphs as i would have them appear. but if it offends a grammer nazi now and then so what, i could care less.
Why take the time to post if you don't care if people value your opinion? Without credibility, it's just so many words on the screen. Without structure, your comments are harder to read. So you're wasting my equally valuable time.
I completely agree that it's unlikely there's any simple pattern that we could make use of. And if there was, it would likely be unintended and therefore an exploit, which we'd want removed. But there is information that may be value, such as if higher level components are more likely to produce or can I save money and time by just doing level 1 stuff? Is it just the Kuat stuff or not? At the moment alot of people think it is, and they're buying it all off the bazaar. I'd like to be able to save money and buy the other stuff, but if they're right I'd be wasting money and time.
So you folks who are saying "don't bother, it's all random", well, don't bother saying it unless you have facts, 'cause the rest of us want to know. The correct answer to this is scientific method, not trying to force your opinion, which is apparently based on nothing but bad experiences with psychics and TV Sweepstakes.
My point with Einstein is that it's not dumb to look for patterns in chaos, it's just dumb to believe them without validation.
----------- Smerk
If I win your auction, offer to one of Yogsoth's vendors on Tatooine at 3404 -5668 (near Mos Eisley)
Woo hoo! I've been one-starred! Proving my point, actually, that someone out there wants to brute force their view of the world on the rest of us, instead of presenting a thoughtful argument. Sounds like Thought Police to me.
----------- Smerk
If I win your auction, offer to one of Yogsoth's vendors on Tatooine at 3404 -5668 (near Mos Eisley)
All of your statements are based on coincidental occurances, and you have really no information to back any of it up, and it all sounds like pure garbage.
Here let me help you:
if x < .005 then firespray_schem = yes
Thats about all the devs have to do to code this using a random method. Are you honestly going to tell me, that with the amount of debugging devs have to do, that it is programmed to interact with what you have in your inventory, how much of it is there, how many specific parts you already have ect? I think not. Its highly Illogical.
I know that it is not hard to code, but who knows what the devs coded. The random thing is not working very random, it has to do with time or some other variables, know one knows which variables, but I would consider it as proved that if the variables are with you, you get better loot. I have heard this from friends and experienced self. You can have weeks with no loot and then a few hours with clothing attachments and other things, and then again silence. Maybe everyone is wrong, but this happens to a lot of ppl.
I agree, but I think it's unlikely to be anything intended by the devs, more likely a bug. I say that based on the frequency that they seem to add bugs to the code while changing things. Bugs in a random number generator are really hard to pin down without a math background.
----------- Smerk
If I win your auction, offer to one of Yogsoth's vendors on Tatooine at 3404 -5668 (near Mos Eisley)
Smerk wrote: So you folks who are saying "don't bother, it's all random", well, don't bother saying it unless you have facts, 'cause the rest of us want to know. The correct answer to this is scientific method, not trying to force your opinion, which is apparently based on nothing but bad experiences with psychics and TV Sweepstakes.
My point with Einstein is that it's not dumb to look for patterns in chaos, it's just dumb to believe them without validation.
You're probably not going to get the evidence you're looking for. There's too many uncontrolled and unmeasurable variables, and nobody has the time to do a statistically signifcant number of experiments on all of the variables that have been mentioned in the initial post as things that increase your probability of finding schematic fragments. You'd have to do Homogenous Kuat vs. Homogenous Non-Kuat vs. Heterogenous mix of Kuat and other components. Inventory full of RE'd items vs. no RE'd items in inventory, while destroying each item as you make it. Previously RE'd schematic fragments in inventory vs. none in inventory vs. fragments in an equipped pack. Reverse Engineering just components of different levels to determine some sort of probability by number of attempts at a certain level and probability per component of a particular level used in RE attempts.
You'd have to do literally 1000s of reverse engineering attempts for each of those variables, producing dozens of schematic fragments to even begin to put together something like an accurate probability curve. It's just not going to happen. You're chasing ghosts.
I can verify, at least, that it is possible to produce a fragment from reverse engineering a non-kuat component. I've done it.
Kan-Tor Bayle Master ShipWright • BayleTech Systems Shadows of Alderaan | Lok | Bloodfin Beauty is only toon deep. - me
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