This is part 2 of the discussion about how non-combat skills could be earned in SWG. Please read and fully consider every point made before responding.
Things we know:
Trader & Entertainer profession revamps are happening with all the other profession enhancements. Both play styles will have new content added for them. For crafting, this specifically means that the crafting game will be brought into harmony with the looting game. There are large percentage of players who would rather loot things, and there are a large percentage of people who would rather craft things. Both play styles will be supported. The two, however, are currently competing against one another. To bring the two systems into congruence, there will likely be some interaction between crafting and combat (looting). This interaction could either happen on one character, or between two characters (since everyone can have two characters, however, I expect some of this interaction to still be on one account i.e one player). More on this below in the "hypothetical" section of this post.
An expertise system is coming. This system will allow you specialize your character in various ways. Essentially, you will have the opportunity to choose from at least 3 "buckets" or "trees" of new skills/mods/abilities, etc. You'll be able to pick up about 1 full bucket of skills or so with the amount of points you'll earn through leveling to max level. Check out R5's comlink for more details: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=DevDiscussion&message.id=39891 .
All profession enhancements, including non-combat ones, are getting their enhancements through the expertise system. This means the "revamp" skills and gameplay will be in expertise trees, just like they are for every other profession. See the "hypothetical scenarios" section of this post for conjecture on who might have these expertise trees.
Non-combat professions are special case components of SWG. This is true not only of their playstyle but also how they are handled "under the hood". This makes it very difficult to add new content for these play styles because none of our standard tools or processes can be used. They are unmaintainable in their current state. This point will have to be considered when executing the revamps for these professions. This by no means explicitly dictates that combat will need to be a part of these professions, but we do want to be able to add new content and mechanics to these styles in the same manner as everything else.
Warning. You are crossing the hypothetical barrier. Everything beyond here is pure discussion and nothing has been decided or even written down anywhere aside from these forums. The list of hypothetical scenarios is by no means complete. It is simply meant to be a sampling of possibilities.
Hypothetical Scenario 1
Non-combat professions are their own individual professions close to how they are now. There will be one profession called "Trader".
Specific crafting skills will be distributed throughout the various crafting expertise trees. There will probably be about 4 trees. You'll be able to earn enough expertise points by leveling up to gain abilities from about 1 to 1.5 trees (just like all other professions). Entertaining will be similar.
Non-combat professions will have levels like everyone else. Level would then be called "Character Level" and no longer "Combat Level".
Non-combat profession game mechanics/content would no longer lend itself to macro-grinding, i.e this would not be a viable advancement mechanic.
Leveling for non-combat professions will take the same amount of time it takes for combat professions.
Because of the likely interaction between the crafting and looting games and by virtue of the fact that non-combat professions wouldn't have any combat skills, crafters would depend as much on combatants for crafting as combatants would depend on crafters for equipment.
Hypothetical Scenario 2
100% of Non-Combat profession skills would be distributed into expertise trees. There will be no concrete profession called "Entertainer" or "Trader". Entertainer and Smith/Engineer/etc will be titles you earn by picking up the respective expertises.
You would choose one of the X remaining combat professions as your starting profession.
You could level up either through combat related content and quests or you could level up through the various entertaining/crafting content and quests. We shall consider crafting in and of itself content in this regard.
Non-combat profession game mechanics/content would no longer lend itself to macro-grinding, i.e this would not be a viable advancement mechanic.
You would still have the same amount of expertise points to spend as anybody else under any other scenario. Enough for 1 to 1.5 trees. If you wanted to be able to craft the most desirable items you wouldn't have any points left to get any of the most desirable combat abilities. This would provide you with the same amount of crafting gameplay/abilities as Scenario #1, above.
Because of the likely interaction between the crafting and looting games and by virtue of the fact that everyone would have some basic amount of combat ability, crafters would be able to rely on themselves for moderate levels of crafting needs but would still need the help of pure combat characters for high-end crafting.
Hypothetical Scenario 2 100% of Non-Combat profession skills would be distributed into expertise trees. There will be no concrete profession called "Entertainer" or "Trader". Entertainer and Smith/Engineer/etc will be titles you earn by picking up the respective expertises. You would choose one of the X remaining combat professions as your starting profession. You could level up either through combat related content and quests or you could level up through the various entertaining/crafting content and quests. We shall consider crafting in and of itself content in this regard. Non-combat profession game mechanics/content would no longer lend itself to macro-grinding, i.e this would not be a viable advancement mechanic. You would still have the same amount of expertise points to spend as anybody else under any other scenario. Enough for 1 to 1.5 trees. If you wanted to be able to craft the most desirable items you wouldn't have any points left to get any of the most desirable combat abilities. This would provide you with the same amount of crafting gameplay/abilities as Scenario #1, above. Because of the likely interaction between the crafting and looting games and by virtue of the fact that everyone would have some basic amount of combat ability, crafters would be able to rely on themselves for moderate levels of crafting needs but would still need the help of pure combat characters for high-end crafting.
I like this. It would give crafters something else to do without making them a "real" combat profession. It would also get rid of ents as combat as well.
Infinity [Gray-dark] 10 times ACE PILOT & only gay jedi in the vlillage Infinity [Kaga] 2 times ACE PILOT & intergalactic Arsonist Infinity [Foxeh] SHES BEHIND YOU!!!
Dear devs, I 'm a veteran player having been around since the "Beta" days , ive seen the good and the bad of this game.I was paying for 10 accts(5 crafters, 5 combat} at 1 time, til the CU when they all got cancelled. I find myself playing more and more with the NGE, tho nowhere close to the Pre-NGE and have reactivated 3 of my accts(1 combat,2 crafters).So why the letter? 1 question, just 1.
1. After you are finished with the next few updates, will my crafters still be a vital part of the game or will the changes be major enough that it will not resemble the present gameplay at all ?
Please help keep this post from getting buried to deep, thx!!
Thanks Iguan
IGN:Iguan July 15,2006 all accts in final cancellation RIP SWG
I coulda been first, but I read it before posting lol.
I don't like the idea. Getting rid of professions seems to be the cool thing to do now, but seriously now you're just getting lazy. I can understand not being able to maintain 32 professions, but how hard can it be to maintain 9?
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. Ewockman Elder Jedi Cloakentuna Elder Bounty Hunter Cloakntuna Swashbuckler of Nagafen(EQ2) and the real Captain Jack Sparrow
HS1 seemed the best way to go, simple as that traders entertainers should be their own prof, not a secondary class or expertise trees. Most want it this way(crafters want it like this anyways). Hs2 would give back a pre-cu feeling to the game, and would allow the non aggro issue to go away. A option 3 may be the best way on this.
Message Edited by darkhalosider on 04-15-200609:55 AM
Darkhalo- Dark Jedi Darkforge- BH Ariston - Chef They can make my jedi weaker, but I will be jedi til they take it away.. Everyone Dies, some just cry about it
Will it (mainly in scenario 2) be possible to pick which entertainer skills I want? I mean, can I just choose to be a dancer, and not spend my points on the entire Entertainer tree, or would I have to get Musician and Image Designer skills as well, just to become a Master Dancer again?
This is part 2 of the discussion about how non-combat skills could be earned in SWG. Please read and fully consider every point made before responding.
Things we know:
Trader & Entertainer profession revamps are happening with all the other profession enhancements. Both play styles will have new content added for them. For crafting, this specifically means that the crafting game will be brought into harmony with the looting game. There are large percentage of players who would rather loot things, and there are a large percentage of people who would rather craft things. Both play styles will be supported. The two, however, are currently competing against one another. To bring the two systems into congruence, there will likely be some interaction between crafting and combat (looting). This interaction could either happen on one character, or between two characters (since everyone can have two characters, however, I expect some of this interaction to still be on one account i.e one player). More on this below in the "hypothetical" section of this post.
An expertise system is coming. This system will allow you specialize your character in various ways. Essentially, you will have the opportunity to choose from at least 3 "buckets" or "trees" of new skills/mods/abilities, etc. You'll be able to pick up about 1 full bucket of skills or so with the amount of points you'll earn through leveling to max level. Check out R5's comlink for more details: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=DevDiscussion&message.id=39891 .
All profession enhancements, including non-combat ones, are getting their enhancements through the expertise system. This means the "revamp" skills and gameplay will be in expertise trees, just like they are for every other profession. See the "hypothetical scenarios" section of this post for conjecture on who might have these expertise trees.
Non-combat professions are special case components of SWG. This is true not only of their playstyle but also how they are handled "under the hood". This makes it very difficult to add new content for these play styles because none of our standard tools or processes can be used. They are unmaintainable in their current state. This point will have to be considered when executing the revamps for these professions. This by no means explicitly dictates that combat will need to be a part of these professions, but we do want to be able to add new content and mechanics to these styles in the same manner as everything else.
Warning. You are crossing the hypothetical barrier. Everything beyond here is pure discussion and nothing has been decided or even written down anywhere aside from these forums. The list of hypothetical scenarios is by no means complete. It is simply meant to be a sampling of possibilities.
Hypothetical Scenario 1
Non-combat professions are their own individual professions close to how they are now. There will be one profession called "Trader".
Specific crafting skills will be distributed throughout the various crafting expertise trees. There will probably be about 4 trees. You'll be able to earn enough expertise points by leveling up to gain abilities from about 1 to 1.5 trees (just like all other professions). Entertaining will be similar.
Non-combat professions will have levels like everyone else. Level would then be called "Character Level" and no longer "Combat Level".
Non-combat profession game mechanics/content would no longer lend itself to macro-grinding, i.e this would not be a viable advancement mechanic.
Leveling for non-combat professions will take the same amount of time it takes for combat professions.
Because of the likely interaction between the crafting and looting games and by virtue of the fact that non-combat professions wouldn't have any combat skills, crafters would depend as much on combatants for crafting as combatants would depend on crafters for equipment.
Hypothetical Scenario 2
100% of Non-Combat profession skills would be distributed into expertise trees. There will be no concrete profession called "Entertainer" or "Trader". Entertainer and Smith/Engineer/etc will be titles you earn by picking up the respective expertises.
You would choose one of the X remaining combat professions as your starting profession.
You could level up either through combat related content and quests or you could level up through the various entertaining/crafting content and quests. We shall consider crafting in and of itself content in this regard.
Non-combat profession game mechanics/content would no longer lend itself to macro-grinding, i.e this would not be a viable advancement mechanic.
You would still have the same amount of expertise points to spend as anybody else under any other scenario. Enough for 1 to 1.5 trees. If you wanted to be able to craft the most desirable items you wouldn't have any points left to get any of the most desirable combat abilities. This would provide you with the same amount of crafting gameplay/abilities as Scenario #1, above.
Because of the likely interaction between the crafting and looting games and by virtue of the fact that everyone would have some basic amount of combat ability, crafters would be able to rely on themselves for moderate levels of crafting needs but would still need the help of pure combat characters for high-end crafting.
Discuss and be merry!
Real quick ..I have all 4 master traders at 1 server... Are you telling me after you implement the expert system... the will not be masters?>**edit**.. man I slaved to make these toons as everyone else... If this is true to non combat.. I better see the cl90's having to levle up to the new expert levels.
but is this even fair? a level 1 starting from zip. Compaired to a cl90 with all the dressing. I do think a cl90 will progress to the new master level far easyer and faster than a levle1.. in combat..
If this is all the way it will be..
I Will expect that after the expert system is activated... I will still have 4 master traders... and the top of there skill tree and Game! Its onlf fair.
Because of the likely interaction between the crafting and looting games and by virtue of the fact that non-combat professions wouldn't have any combat skills, crafters would depend as much on combatants for crafting as combatants would depend on crafters for equipment.
That is what we have been asking for. My vote goes to scenario one even though I like both of them. The second scenario sounds a lot like what I am reading as concept from another up coming MMO, but I just don't know how well it could work since crafting is a chore all of its own with a lot of devotion needed to become a true master of it.
Crafting in this game was great in the old days. If you guys can find a way to bring back its former glory somehow or another, you will be making great strides towards restoring this game.
................... = Rups Kcocemag = ................... =Clubbing baby Ewoks since 1985= ................... If you can read this, then you don't need glasses.
An expertise system is coming. This system will allow you specialize your character in various ways. Essentially, you will have the opportunity to choose from at least 3 "buckets" or "trees" of new skills/mods/abilities, etc. You'll be able to pick up about 1 full bucket of skills or so with the amount of points you'll earn through leveling to max level. Check out R5's comlink for more details:
Would something like this be possible:
I have an idea for expertise trees for our profession. I'm not going to elaborate detail, but just giving suggestions. (I'm sure the devs will like it since I included their favorite word, enhancements, in the titles
Tree # 1 Re-engineering Enhancements
This idea has been suggested by the developers. I am pretty sure they hope that they would like all of crafting to be re-engineering loot drops. As an alternative, I suggest make this ability an expertise tree while keeping the base crafting profession the same.
Tree # 2 Shield / Power-Up Enhancements
These would be modifiers to shields/weapons which are limited use for repeat business, but not necessary all the time for combatants. For instance, you could craft a shield modifier which grants fire protection for questing on Mustafar. Or weapons could have a specific damage increase as well.
Tree # 3 Faction/GCW Enhancements
This is my favorite. I'm talking about items that will bring life to the GCW. These could be shield generators that protect the whole group (the coolest thing about Gungan technology), turrets that are craftable by players, etc. I would say AT-ST's and such, but that may need to go in the Engineer area. You could require players to have a certain rank to use the more powerful items if you wanted to.
These trees solve several problems in the game:
1. Incorporating loot drops and crafters.
2. Repeat business to fix the economy.
3. Increased role of the GCW.
Or would the 'new' expertise trees look like:
1. Current armorsmith skills and maybe a new schematic.
2. Current weaponsmith skills and maybe a new schematic.
3. Current merchant skills and a new one the dances (just kidding).
......................................................Armor by Apostled
Cairdeas City, Naboo - In the Cairdeas City Mall
Coronet City, Corellia (800, -4700) - In the Cairdeas Mini-Mall Tent
Non-combat professions are special case components of SWG. This is true not only of their playstyle but also how they are handled "under the hood". This makes it very difficult to add new content for these play styles because none of our standard tools or processes can be used. They are unmaintainable in their current state. This point will have to be considered when executing the revamps for these professions. This by no means explicitly dictates that combat will need to be a part of these professions, but we do want to be able to add new content and mechanics to these styles in the same manner as everything else.
I, for one, realize there will be changes to the crafting system to integrate it into the NGE. I am not a die hard "do not ever change crafting ever, never" person. But let us help you keep the things we enjoy because if you change crafting completely then you do change the game we enjoy.
......................................................Armor by Apostled
Cairdeas City, Naboo - In the Cairdeas City Mall
Coronet City, Corellia (800, -4700) - In the Cairdeas Mini-Mall Tent
