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Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
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GreenMarine
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Registered: 07-31-2003



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This is the second in a series of posts on a smuggler revamp. The goal of these posts is to discuss ideas that can be integrated into a final profession revamp proposal.

In this thread we're going to talk about the contraband system and the idea of smuggling missions. These two issues will be discussed together, because they affect each other.

I've thought about and written down my own conception of how a contraband system update and a new type of smuggling mission would work. These ideas aren't necessarily refined or complete. I want to create a debate through which we can work out a reasonable approach to improving the smuggler profession.

Everything here is debatable, so feel free to question, discuss, or add any ideas you have.

Contraband

Concept

 

The game’s contraband system will be changed to include a greater number of illegal items, a range of legality levels, and increased penalties for being found with illegal items.

 

Legal Ranges & Punishment

 

Items will now have a range of legality. The following legal ranges will be implemented.

 

  • Quasi-legal. A player caught with quasi-legal goods will be attacked.
  • Banned. A player caught with banned goods will be attacked. The player’s visibility will increase slightly for each violation.
  • Highly Illegal. A player caught with highly illegal goods will be attacked, the goods confiscated (if the attacked player is defeated), and the player’s visibility will increase. Highly illegal objects cannot be transported via the standard travel system by anyone other than a smuggler. The player must use the new smuggler travel system in order to move highly illegal goods. (This new system will be discussed later.) 

Illegal objects will display their legality in the examine properties list.

 

A faction aligned player who is caught with contraband will lose a percentage of faction appropriate to the degree of the crime.

 

Imperial aligned players will now only be immune to scans regarding quasi-legal goods if they have the rank of corporal or better.

 

Old sliced weapons and armor will be converted to have the legality level of “banned.”

 

Scan Frequency

 

Contraband scan frequency will be somewhat increased. Scan bottlenecks will be introduced at various locations in major cities, such as starport entries and medical centers.

 

Contraband Visibility

 

The game's "visibility" system will be expanded. Any player can now accumulate small amounts of visibility for a contraband infraction. The amount of visibility will be dependent on the severity of the infraction.

 

Smugglers may attempt to find out or reduce the visibility of any player by slicing a bounty hunter terminal. Failure to successfully slice the terminal will result in the smuggler being immediately added to the terminal. Clamps cannot be used in this form of slicing. (This will be a new type of slicing, not wire cutting.) More information on this is available in the slicing section.
 
Smuggling Missions
 

Concept

 

Various criminal organizations throughout the galaxy have found financial success in moving illegal substances and goods from one place to another. The vehicles of these transfers are the smugglers, men and women who store their morality along side coffers full of questionable goods. The smugglers are brave and often brash individuals who risk their lives for monetary gain on a daily basis.

 

The smuggler revamp will introduce new missions to simulate the smuggling underworld.

 

Basic System

 

Smuggling Missions are received from various underworld bosses, called ‘suppliers’. Jabba, Lady Valarian, and other key criminal characters, as well as new characters, will offer smuggling missions. Smuggling missions are only offered to smuggler characters. The difficulty of the mission will scale to the average tier level of the smuggler’s skills.

 

At its core, a smuggling mission is similar to a delivery mission. The player is given a crate of illegal goods to move to another contact. The player must then return the payment for the goods to the source of the mission.

 

Ex: Jabba gives the player a crate of 50 narcostims to deliver to a cantina in Mos Eisley. After the player delivers the narcostims, she receives a payment of 12,000 credits. The player then returns to Jabba and delivers 8,000 credits, pocketing 4,000 as payment for the job.

 

There are no skill boxes specific to smuggling missions, but the smuggler’s skills in scan avoidance and slicing will come into play.

 

Cargo Legality

 

Smuggling mission cargo is highly illegal. Any non-smuggler caught carrying a crate of any item to be delivered from a smuggling mission will be attacked and have the cargo confiscated.

 

Due to the illegality of the cargo, the authorities may occasionally hear about a particular supplier’s intent to move goods. Smugglers on a smuggler mission may encounter attacks from planetary or Imperial authorities, depending on the difficulty of the mission. Killing these enemies is not necessary to complete the mission.

 

The target for a smuggling mission will only wait so long to receive the delivery. If the player does not deliver the goods within a reasonable amount of time (dependent on mission difficulty), the mission will be lost and the player will receive some visibility.

 

Withholding Cargo

 

The player may choose to withhold part of the delivery. In the above example, the player may choose to only deliver 30 of the narcostims to the contact in Mos Eisley. If the player chooses to withhold cargo, s/he will only be paid a portion of the actual delivery fee. The amount of the payment will be directly proportional to the amount delivered.

 

In order to split a container of mission supplies, the smuggler must successfully slice the container’s locking mechanism.

 

The player may also choose to withhold part of the money to be paid to the supplier. For example, the player might deliver all 50 narcostims, but only pay Jabba 6,000 credits.

 

Withholding cargo or pay will result in the smuggler earning a small bit of visibility. Thus, a smuggler who chooses to defy the crime lords who supply her with jobs faces the possibility of execution at the hands of a hired Bounty Hunter.

 

The more difficult the smuggling mission, the greater the visibility gained for cheating.

 

Cargo Contents

 

Smuggling mission cargo often contains items that are components for smuggler crafting. Narcostims, for example, might be a component used in the creation of the spice, Glitterstim. Thus, a smuggler will need to occasionally withhold some of the cargo from a mission if they wish to enter the spice business.

 

In the interests of the player economy and current game balance, spices will remain craftable. Now, however, smugglers will "assemble" various components into spice packages, instead of chemically brewing them. Experimentation will be added...more details later in the spices discussion.

 

Smuggling cargo may also include crates of low or mid level spices. The player may choose to withhold these spices and resell them to other players if they wish.

 

Space Integration

 

There will be elements of smuggler missions involving space zones & space gameplay, but I can't discuss many space details. The player may have to pick up or deliver goods in space. Players without JTL will not be required to go to space. This is an "after space ships" feature.

 


 

I can't stress enough that this is very preliminary design work. This isn't a guarantee of implementation. There is no timeframe, except "sometime after space." This is all subject to potential change. If we find out one system is going to be more work than expected, we might have to replace it with a different idea. Keep an open mind.

 

The goal with the changes to visibility is to add more risk to the smuggling profession. Smugglers who play fast and loose with their suppliers will find bounties on their heads. Visibility will scale to the nature of the violation. Sifting a few components off the top of a delivery will only result in a minor increase, where as keeping an entire crate to yourself will result in more. The goal is to allow players a choice and scale the risk to their play style.

 

Please discuss...

06-16-2004 11:28 AM  

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Re: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
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Thunderheart
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Thunderheart

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First!

Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
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06-16-2004 11:31 AM  

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Re: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
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Ternque01
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LOL Thunderheart!!! Awesome I can't even read all that now i'm so excited

Axob Freelight
The non-Jedi are extinct. Their fire has gone out of the universe.
06-16-2004 11:33 AM  

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Re: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
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Thunderheart
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Thunderheart

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/snicker

Kurt "Thunderheart" Stangl
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06-16-2004 11:34 AM  

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Re: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions   [ Edited ]
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BabyRancor
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BabyRancor
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First off GM - thank you very much.  This is exactly the sort of thing that will let players feel invested in the game, and thus loyal to the concepts and accepting of any delays.  This is a huge indication to me of where this game will be going in the next few months, and I desperately hope that the other critical revamps are handled in the same fashion.

Contraband

Concept

The game’s contraband system will be changed to include a greater number of illegal items, a range of legality levels, and increased penalties for being found with illegal items.

Legal Ranges & Punishment

Items will now have a range of legality. The following legal ranges will be implemented.

Currently scans are the province of the Empire - stormtroopers conduct scans.  If this remains the same how do neutrals fit into this scheme?  They cannot (and should not) be attacked.  I suppose the scan teams could be CorSec or other non-Imperial forces enforcing the Emperor's decrees.

Must it always be attacks?  What about a bribe option based on the level of the offense.

If this is to work - the current immunity of items in droid storage compartments needs to be removed too.  With those compartments everyone is functionally a smuggler with a perfect chance of avoiding a scan.

Illegal objects will display their legality in the examine properties list.

A faction aligned player who is caught with contraband will lose a percentage of faction appropriate to the degree of the crime.

Not sure this makes sense for the Rebels.  I don't think they cared that Han was a smuggler.  Beggars can't be choosers sort of thing.  Makes perfect sense for Imperials though.

Imperial aligned players will now only be immune to scans regarding quasi-legal goods if they have the rank of corporal or better.

Corporal is a little low to command that kind of respect.  I could see a Warrent Officer or Staff Sergeant being able to sweep it under the rug but not a Corporal.  In most militaries the MPs are completely seperate from the chain of command, thus have authority over any soldier be they officer or NCM.  If you get away with something it's usually because you know someone that knows someone - hence usually a higher rank (more time in) is required.

Old sliced weapons and armor will be converted to have the legality level of “banned.”

Here is my major area of concern.  Another post relating to the combat balance implied that combat post-revamp will be balanced on the expectation that players will be using sliced armour and weapons.  If this is the case slicing will no longer be an "edge" but a necessity - thus building in a risk to slicing is extremely unsatisfying (it just kicks a player for trying to play the game as designed). 

For this concept of illegality to work - combat must be balanced for legal weapons, resulting in a reward (that extra "edge") to match the risk (faction loss, attack, etc.)

Scan Frequency

Contraband scan frequency will be somewhat increased. Scan bottlenecks will be introduced at various locations in major cities, such as starport entries and medical centers.

I was under the impression that this was untenable due to lag issues.  Regardless, medical centres will be barren wastelands once the hologrinding stops - all players use medical units in droids now.

It might be easier on the system if there were multiple scan teams placed at the major entrances to cities (and most of the minor ones closed off).  That way people are scanned piecemeal rather than all at the entrance to the starport.  There could then be secondary "spot-check" type scans within the city and starport itself.

Or certain cities could be subjected to "crack downs" where scanning is common place for a while, while other cities are relatively free of police presence.  This could have the effect of moving around the "hubs" of travel from Coronet and Theed periodically as people fly out of less popular places to avoid the scans (illegal things should happen in the backwater cities of the planets).

Contraband Visibility

The game's "visibility" system will be expanded. Any player can now accumulate small amounts of visibility for a contraband infraction. The amount of visibility will be dependent on the severity of the infraction.

Smugglers may attempt to find out or reduce the visibility of any player by slicing a bounty hunter terminal. Failure to successfully slice the terminal will result in the smuggler being immediately added to the terminal. Clamps cannot be used in this form of slicing. (This will be a new type of slicing, not wire cutting.) More information on this is available in the slicing section.

Neat Idea   Gives more content to the BH.  If a player successfully defeats the BH would the mission expire?  Would their visibility be reset?  Will BH missions have a timer on them (good and bad points here - good that a player can avoid a BH and win without combat, bad that a player could just log off and let the timer expire).
 
BH need to be amped up in the revamp though - most combat templates can wipe the floor with an MBH.
 
Smuggling Missions
 
Concept

Various criminal organizations throughout the galaxy have found financial success in moving illegal substances and goods from one place to another. The vehicles of these transfers are the smugglers, men and women who store their morality along side coffers full of questionable goods. The smugglers are brave and often brash individuals who risk their lives for monetary gain on a daily basis.

The smuggler revamp will introduce new missions to simulate the smuggling underworld.

Basic System

Smuggling Missions are received from various underworld bosses, called ‘suppliers’. Jabba, Lady Valarian, and other key criminal characters, as well as new characters, will offer smuggling missions. Smuggling missions are only offered to smuggler characters. The difficulty of the mission will scale to the average tier level of the smuggler’s skills.

Combat skills?  Smuggler (i.e. Underworld) skills?  IMO it should be scaled to Underworld skills - the more lucrative missions are only available to smugglers that have wormed their way into the confidence of the big players.

It should be a tiered system, a smuggler with Underworld 1 shouldn't be able to walk up to Jabba and get a mission, they should have to work for the little fish first. 

That brings up the logical conclusion that successful deliveries should award "Smuggler XP" which is used to progress through the Underworld tree.  Limit it to smugglers by having the mission giver speak only in a language that no one but a smuggler can understand (as the Jawas do now) and we've got a winner here.

At its core, a smuggling mission is similar to a delivery mission. The player is given a crate of illegal goods to move to another contact. The player must then return the payment for the goods to the source of the mission.

Ex: Jabba gives the player a crate of 50 to deliver to a cantina in Mos Eisley. After the player delivers the narcostims, she receives a payment of 12,000 credits. The player then returns to Jabba and delivers 8,000 credits, pocketing 4,000 as payment for the job.

There are no skill boxes specific to smuggling missions, but the smuggler’s skills in scan avoidance and slicing will come into play.

Cargo Legality

Smuggling mission cargo is highly illegal. Any non-smuggler caught carrying a crate of any item to be delivered from a smuggling mission will be attacked and have the cargo confiscated.

This includes all spices I presume?  Once again the combat balance must be considered.  If it's expected that spice will be used, and combat is balanced accordingly, spice is then moved from a perk to a necessity. 

Due to the illegality of the cargo, the authorities may occasionally hear about a particular supplier’s intent to move goods. Smugglers on a smuggler mission may encounter attacks from planetary or Imperial authorities, depending on the difficulty of the mission. Killing these enemies is not necessary to complete the mission.

My only thought here is these enemies had best spawn near the end of the mission.  If a bunch of authorities spawn as I'm racing from place to place on a speeder it will be pretty pointless.  I probably won't see them.

The target for a smuggling mission will only wait so long to receive the delivery. If the player does not deliver the goods within a reasonable amount of time (dependent on mission difficulty), the mission will be lost and the player will receive some visibility.

Of course a visible timer here is a must.

Withholding Cargo

The player may choose to withhold part of the delivery. In the above example, the player may choose to only deliver 30 of the narcostims to the contact in Mos Eisley. If the player chooses to withhold cargo, s/he will only be paid a portion of the actual delivery fee. The amount of the payment will be directly proportional to the amount delivered.

In order to split a container of mission supplies, the smuggler must successfully slice the container’s locking mechanism.

The player may also choose to withhold part of the money to be paid to the supplier. For example, the player might deliver all 50 narcostims, but only pay Jabba 6,000 credits.

Withholding cargo or pay will result in the smuggler earning a small bit of visibility. Thus, a smuggler who chooses to defy the crime lords who supply her with jobs faces the possibility of execution at the hands of a hired Bounty Hunter.

The more difficult the smuggling mission, the greater the visibility gained for cheating.

Sounds good   Would there be a penalty for delivering a cargo that had been "tampered" with - i.e. failed to slice the lock but delivered the cargo anyway.

Cargo Contents

Smuggling mission cargo often contains items that are components for smuggler crafting. Narcostims, for example, might be a component used in the creation of the spice, Glitterstim. Thus, a smuggler will need to occasionally withhold some of the cargo from a mission if they wish to enter the spice business.

In the interests of the player economy and current game balance, spices will remain craftable. Now, however, smugglers will "assemble" various components into spice packages, instead of chemically brewing them. Experimentation will be added...more details later in the spices discussion.

This I'm not so sure about.  It's a neat concept, but should perhaps be reserved for the highest level spices.  Once again with the combat balance (I know I sound like a broken record...) - if spices are intended as a perk this is no big deal.  If it's expected that spices will be commonplace it'll be a big problem.  Running mission after mission after mission to supply a spice making business is not fun - nor conducive to a casual play style.  Not to mention having to take and refuse multiple missions to pick up the subcomponent that you are looking for that day would be annoying.

I think a better alternative is to let players make all the subcomponents for spices - but hard-cap them to be inferior to the subcomponents you can get by skimming from a smuggler mission.  The logic here is that the purity of a chemical you make in your basement is not what you'd get if you had a proper lab and refinery.  Jabba makes a business of supplying the high end stuff.

This would create a readily available amount of mid-range spice, but the really high-end stuff would be comparitively rare (and thus would sell for a lot more as there is another product to compare to).

Smuggling cargo may also include crates of low or mid level spices. The player may choose to withhold these spices and resell them to other players if they wish.

Once again - I think giving the spices to the players but reserving the best subcomponents is the better way to go.  It's the same concept as loot drops and weapons / armour now.

Space Integration

There will be elements of smuggler missions involving space zones & space gameplay, but I can't discuss many space details. The player may have to pick up or deliver goods in space. Players without JTL will not be required to go to space. This is an "after space ships" feature.

Once caveat here is risk vs reward.  There needs to be a reason for a smuggler to risk flying in space with his cargo rather than just take the public transport to the destination without risk.  I understand that you don't want to limit players that choose not to buy JtL, but there should be a benefit to taking the time and risk to fly your cargo yourself.

Perhaps it's more clear in the Smuggler transport system.


Since even the Jedi don't know much about visibility, I think we'd need some details here.  Does visibility decay over time?  Do other players gain visibility when associating with a smuggler?  Things like that.

Thanks again for taking this approach with this - I have a really good feeling if this is the direction the design team is taking

One request though - could you avoid using the fancy formatting or Word programs to do these - the tags read as invalid HTML code and makes it tough to quote the post.

Message Edited by BabyRancor on 06-16-2004 01:13 PM

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06-16-2004 11:35 AM  

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Re: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
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GreenMarine
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Ternque01 wrote:
LOL Thunderheart!!! Awesome I can't even read all that now i'm so excited


Just keep in mind that this is going to be a somewhat protracted process. The plan is smuggler after space. In a way, this whole thing is an experiment in MMO design. You give us your patience, understanding, and participation. We discuss the revamp design process much more openly than we have ever done before.

06-16-2004 11:35 AM  

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Re: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
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Aerius
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Bah, couldn't one star TH's post!




Aerius - DS
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06-16-2004 11:35 AM  

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Re: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
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Britamart
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any thoughts to the possibilty of smugglers getting on BH terms?  I think pc bounties are one the best ideas to come around in a long time, and would love to see them expanded upon.
06-16-2004 11:38 AM  

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KabaI
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Okay, someone clone GreenMarine. We need a dozen more like him. Then, we'll be able to get this game to where it should be. That sounds so great, I just might get back to grinding up one of my alts so I can finally try out Smuggler. I gave up after the revamp was postponed. Grinding unarmed was giving me a headache. I especially like how this seems to be geared towards Player Bounties on more than just Jedi.
06-16-2004 11:38 AM  

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Re: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
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chaosx81
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Nice!

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06-16-2004 11:39 AM  

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Re: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions
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p4Samwise
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I need new pants.

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06-16-2004 11:39 AM  

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Re: Revamp Discussion: Contraband & Smuggling Missions   [ Edited ]
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garvin
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There will be elements of smuggler missions involving space zones & space gameplay, but I can't discuss many space details. The player may have to pick up or deliver goods in space. Players without JTL will not be required to go to space. This is an "after space ships" feature.

Green...

 
Maybe I missed this, but a popular question lately has been "Will Smugglers have to buy the JTL to get access to some of the Smuggler revamp enhancements?"  Is this too early to be asking?  Will it only be the space aspects involved or other Smuggler enhancements being proposed that are connected directly to the JTL expansion

Message Edited by garvin on 06-16-200411:42 AM

Message Edited by garvin on 06-16-2004 11:42 AM

Garvin Lansdowne
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06-16-2004 11:39 AM  

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Srethame
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Wow, I'm not a smuggler but I sure would like to be one just for this revamp.  Looks like a home run GreenMarine.

~Srethame Moonflier~
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06-16-2004 11:40 AM  

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GreenMarine
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Britamart wrote:
any thoughts to the possibilty of smugglers getting on BH terms?  I think pc bounties are one the best ideas to come around in a long time, and would love to see them expanded upon.



"Visibility" is the system by which players go onto BH terminals. I don't have plans to add arbitrary player bounties as a part of the smuggler revamp. But smugglers (and other players) will now accumulate visibility points as they deal in illegal goods. Smugglers will now be able to gamble at looking to see how visible someone is (how likely they are to receive a bounty) at the risk of being caught snooping around bounty hunter computer archives (highly illegal).
 
This will require a reworking of the visibility code, which is currently specific to Jedi. I don't think that will be too much of a technical effort, though. It's an area I have to research.
06-16-2004 11:41 AM  

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MatchstickNaritus
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I'd like to see some additional elements of risk from being killed by a Bounty Hunter.  Perhaps significant faction loss...
 
Especially if a third faction gets introduced.... perhaps in that third faction "Hutt faction points" could be used to buy illegal upgrades for spaceships or weapons or spice components... and that could be earned as well by successfully performing missions...
 
And then perhaps the smuggler could modify or assemble these types of things for selling to non smugglers...
 
And again... dying to a Bounty Hunter could cause a loss of this type of faction...
 
But if a death by a BH is just a simple trip to the cloners with no decay because it's PvP... would any smuggler actually try and avoid it?

Matchstick

06-16-2004 11:42 AM  

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